Recap: The entertainment of the Josh Howard Contract thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 08:20 AM

For pure entertainment value, it's been a long time since I have seen a thread on a discussion board as fun as the Josh Howard Contract thread.

A newbie pontificating. Lunacy trying to disguise itself as genius. Regulars reacting to the spewing of idiocy with bombs. Barbs so amazing that they each deserve their own spotlight, yet so many of them they get lost in a thread that long.

To make sure those entertaining contributions don't get buried, I'm offering here a recap of the most outrageous and interesting things in that thread from all parties. (The argument and debate points will not be the focus - just the things that made me go "I can't believe I just read that" in a positive or negative way.)

This is only a limited recap yet it will probably be quite long, which is a testament to the wealth of idiocy, creativity and wit seen in only one thread.

Apologies to those who were so creative, since I didnt take the time to name each poster who wrote the words. If you said something clever and I didn't include it, added mea culpa's - there was no intent to shortchange anyone. It's a lot to wade through, and there was so much worth noting, that I am certain I will accidentally miss something.

I have delineated the pontificator's words with a ">" and the others are responses. It's all in chronological sequence. I've added context where I felt it would be helpful. Most of the statements speak for themselves quite well, however.

We'll do this in installments. It will take several to get it all in here without the individual posts being outrageously cumbersome, I think.

And I suspect there will be things you see here that you overlooked the first time and go "whoa" or "wow" or want to highlight or react to. I'd encourage you as you read this to withhold your replies until all the installments are completed. Then have at it.

I hope this ends up as fun to read, as it was for me in going back through that long thread and copying diamond after diamond. It was incredibly good stuff you guys wrote.

Enjoy.

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 08:25 AM

Part 1 ..Off We Go ...the fun begins with a slew of ~ahem~ "interesting" assertions

> If the Mavs lose Howard they lose their MOST important piece for the future.
> I would actually give up my season tickets if they did this as a protect, and influence about 10 other season ticket holders to do the same.
> Free agency is a nightmare for most players in the NBA. Just like making it into the NBA. I fought those demons for a little while and landed overseas.
> I know plenty of players and coaches, and it is all the same with them.
> [W]hen you are a player like Howard and money was low, then your agent is most likely not the top choice for you. You are caught up as a Superstar talent, but only the money for a draft pick type agent.
> Dirk is the Most Valuable Player, but Josh is the most important.
> Where did you get ruining the salary cap from Howard? The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward.
> Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard!
> Howard should get 8-10 million a year with this new contract, but there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think.
> I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

You sir are an effing moron.

Wow. These new Yahoo board guys are sure bringing "IT". Unfortunately for the most part they have insisted on placing a "SH" right in front of IT.

> [Howard] is also our best rebounder in traffic, and best slasher as well as plays dont have to be run for him as well.
> MVP and MIP have different roles on a team
> You guys insults on basketball terminology that I am using lets me know who actually played basketball on a professional level and who played intramurals in college. Sorry to use that terminology with you all. Clearly you dont understand MVP and M I(Important) Player in the world of professional sports.
> Anytime you take my post and say that I call Howard the MVP over Dirk lets me know you are just a fan of the Mavs.
> Ask Avery how important Josh is to this team. I dont have to ask, I already know what he said.

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 08:33 AM

Part 2 ... The Regulars Begin to Have Fun while the pontificating spews on

> Since you are the smart one, please enlighten me on the 10-point breakdown of a player film session? I am clearly talking over your head, so just dont respond

Or did you fail to notice that while you were masturbating to josh howard in your ten point film analysis?

> Dirk is not a traffic rebounder
> the hands are tied for the Mavs and Howard right now, unless Howard says he will accept the highest amount he can extend for right now. This is the problem at hand.
> These restrictions hinder alot of deals that most fans dont know about. This is when teams/players have to become very creative in the contracts so that they can get around some restrictions.
> That is why you see so many deals where the signing bonus is so high and the salary is lower.
> The language of the contract is very important to getting around restrictions.
> Sometimes that huge signing bonus will put you close or over the cap just to get a deal done.
> It is very tricky. You would'nt believe what these contracts look like. The average person could not read a typical professional contract. That is why you have to have an agent. A good one as well, or you can be screwed by the language of the contract.
> Sometimes when you see players fire agents real quick, is because language in the contract comes to light that is not in the best interest of the player.
> Why are you even talking to me about MVP stuff and numbers? WHY????? Talk basketball 501 with me. If you are wanting to talk MVP stuff, talk to me about who is the better MVP..Dirk/Nash/Kobe/Lebron/Wade...That is MVP talk..Have you heard the basketball terminology "Basketball 501"?
> [re " Or did you fail to notice that while you were masturbating to josh howard in your ten point film analysis?"] Are you just gay? Enough of the gay remarks. Be a man and play a man's role in this discussion, keep your personal preference to yourself...
> If you get a chance to brush up on NBA basketball advance talk start by visiting some websites that will give you some insight on what ALL nba teams use to see the value of each player on each play in each game in each minute on the floor. Visit http://www.82games.com/0506/0506DAL.HTM and tell me what you think about that info.
> If you are here to just judge the normal stats that fans/media read into each day, then you will not understand most of my talk and it will continue to sound like I dont know basketball.

[Re "Are you just gay? Enough of the gay remarks."] LOL this pretty much sums up your logic. Most excellent. Can we ban idiots before the season starts?

I'm officially scared to refresh this thread.

wow. Why do all of the newbies suck ass?

I'd rather read Mighty Toines post than this garbage lol.

Sike you're talking MVP talk duh!!! You need a refresher course in Basketball 501 it sounds like!

You forgot to convert using the MIP cofactor and then divide by a lack of intelligence and then inflate it with false self worth. That should fix it.

> that link [82games.com] does post alot of vital info that teams look at for each game.
> Here are some of my thoughts on "Importance"...It is about what energy you bring on offense and defense. How the team reacts to you while on defense, it is about your role on defense. It is about who the team trusts you to guard in key situations. It is about the defensive I.Q. It is about your toughness on defense against defenders your size or bigger. It is about your transition speed from defense to offense. Do you see my common thread? It is mainly defense. Then offense second.
> It is also about your value on the team on the offensive end, while playing with the top 5-man rotation for offense and defense. It is about your value to bring energy to the MVP. It is about how well you compliment the MVP. It is about you stepping up when the MVP is down or out. It is about how your MVP feels about your value to the team. It is about you taking a defensive load off the MVP, so that the MVP can use more energy on offense. Lastly, it is about being the perfect side-kick to the MVP.

he keeps comparing Dirks defensive stats with Howards. Makes no sense to compare their stats if they aren't being compared. I'm going to chalk this down as idiocy and move on.

> You got my point exactly. Most of the time Superstars cancel out each other in a game or series. The second guy actually becomes the most important guy because he is the true X-factor.
> Lastly you all brought up the stat part, I just went along with it for your sakes.
> For the record, Superstars from each team cancels out each other..Remember that....

fluid.forty.one · 10-11-2006, 08:39 AM

In the words of Mario from Super Mario 64...

"HERE WE GO!!"

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 08:49 AM

Part 3 ... The Reactions Flow

Basketball 501 is the stupidest, elitest thing I've seen someone post in awhile. Besides, you'd think someone knowledgeable in 501 would be familiar with the common useage of the term "X-Factor".

Don't you just love when newbies come in and act like they know everything when they really know nothing?

And that whole "Superstars cancel each other out" crap is so bogus.

the problem is that the word important has a meaning. Its in the dictionary. X-factor or robin can have their own subjective meanings but important has a fairly stationary meaning. I can say hey, im using "my" definition for Most Idiotic Poster but pretty much everyone would know what i meant. Same goes for most important player. Its fairly self explanatory and its not what you explained.

So I could trade Dirk for AI straight up, and we'd have the exact same chance to win a Ring cause we'd still have a "superstar"?

and

where
did
you
play
your
pro
ball
idiot

> Dont worry about where I played and for what team. Seems to me that you are worried more about that than anything else. Where do you work and what is your title? See my point on that??????

[Re "Dont worry about where I played and for what team. Seems to me that you are worried more about that than anything else. Where do you work and what is your title? See my point on that??????"] This might be the stupidest thing I've ever read

Obviously you didn't play anywhere, that was my point.

And yes you did say you were a pro baller as a means to place yourself above everyone else. You obviously didn't play pro ball, you obviously are a huge idiot, and I hope you never post here again. I hope someone provokes you into going off so we can get a perma ban or something.

*sigh* The ghey is strong with this one.

For your sake I hope you're some dumb kid "trolling" from their room. If you are older than 26 and still writing this incoherently, then I take pity on your offspring.

> I am a grown man, nothing you can say or do will cause me to leave. Hopefully, you decide to never reply to any of my posts.
> Take it or leave it, but you will see alot of my posts. World does not evolve around you or anyone else here. This is a Mavs message board, and I am a Mavs fan.
> My reference to basketball 501 is normal talk to me. You took it as negative.
> Since I am a huge idiot dont reply to my posts.
> [Re "He wasn't the one who questioned your spelling you moron. You have the logic of a monkey.] do you know how smart a monkey is? Of course you don't, because you would not had let that come out of your lil mouth.

dear lord lol It's unbelievable to me that a grown man can produce such unintelligible posts

> [Re "If you are older than 26 and still writing this incoherently, then I take pity on your offspring."] Keep "Offspring" out of your mouth. I did not bring your parents into this at all, so keep your remarks to me or about me.......

[Re "do you know how smart a monkey is? Of course you don't, because you would not had let that come out of your lil mouth."] speechless. Can you hurt yourself from silent laughter?...doc, any insight on monkey IQ that might help me stop laughing?

you realize that your offspring and your parents arent even remotely the same thing right???

It made a lot more sense when you took his ideas and implied that dirk was out of the running for this presitigious MIP award

I'm laughing too hard to respond sikey

LOL Tokey that was the best post of the thread. Bombs are being shot off all over the place, and you are just glad we have a good team

This thread has gone on so long and so meaninglessly that I don't even get what's being argued about. This thread's main topic isn't even really being discussed anymore.

I should get extra credit for bring monkey oral into the conversation. Get it? Extra credit? *sigh*

sike must be butter 'cause the man is on a roll.......

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 09:11 AM

Part 4 ... Newbie in Retreat

I read the earlier posts, but I'm just totally confused about credit's points because they make no sense.

> [Re " I don't see why credit would make a big deal about how he knows about baskeball 501 because he's played pro ball, but then backs away when confronted about it."] I backed away, because you took it to mean it in that way. Once a couple of you went to that logic, I stepped back away from it to not mean that just because I played pro basketball I knew basketball 501 and you all didn't because you had not played at that level.

Alrite then. For future reference though there are many very knowledgable fans on this board, so there is no need to sound like you are better than people.

> you took it like that. I never said that. Once you had it in your mind that I was saying I was better, then you went about with others with name calling and whatnots.

Its called "Backtracking 501"

Part 5 ... Newbie Gets His second Wind and blows hard again

> I look for the Mavs to start calling plays for [Josh Howard] this season. Howard does not have any plays for him, so his points have to come from transition points. I think you all will see Howard in a new light this season.
> Mark my words, Howard if healthy will make All-Star and be the #2 scorer..
> So far, on this thread I got a good first impression from two of you on this thread. The rest seems more to me about regular fan type talkers. Which is about your own personal viewpoints, and if a post does not line up with it, then you throw darts at it.
> Please dont be concerned, this is normal procedures in the nba. It has to happen like this to get the most from Howard. If they renew him now, Howard will play like he has nothing more to prove.
> This is why the Mavs should have waited another year to give Daniels that type of money.
> Howard needs to play with a chip on his shoulder all year long. He needs to audition for the entire nba. If he does, then the Mavs will reward him accordingly.
> This is a good thing for the Mavs, but not so good for the player.
> This year will tell you what kind of fiber Howard has. Howard has to be able to contain himself and be his normal self.
> There is no doubt that the Mavs are in the drivers seat.
> In the eyes of Howard he wants to be paid now, and also remembers that the Mavs said he was one of the top priorities and now it seems that it was all a lie. This is normal nba stuff.
> Now if Howard was the MVP, this would had been taken care of with a shorter contract extension like Wade and Lebron's contracts.
> This time should make Howard even more hungry.
> This is what I want and expect, which will bring my prediction for him to light.
> And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure....Second, someone that is a "LORD" should recognize and read through posts to see that my statement were about the 2nd half.
> Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue.
> Contract extension issues in the CBA is....The problem is that with the CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer and Howard's thinking on his real value they can't reach an agreement on the numbers.
> In is in Howard's court. It is in his and the team best interest to wait.
> The team is more than willing to pay what Howard wants, but they can't tip their hand at the table at this time. If you can get him cheaper right now, they go for it. If not, then get the most value from Howard on this season and pay him later.
> Once my intentions were taken different than what I meant it to be, I backed off to show I did not mean it in that way. That is a sign of doing whats right in a real man's way. I guess "Mary" would know????? Kinda like only posting replies to everyone like you do.
> Why dont you share some knowledge here with a post, and I will decide your true value to me as well.
> Dont reply to me, just share your thoughts on this Josh contract situation.

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 09:29 AM

Part 6 ... The Regulars Respond but the lunacy continues

You have a great ability to make no sense at all...

You're suggesting that the restrictions dictate they couldn't find a common ground, but I would like to know what specific restriction you're talking about.

There's no attempt to misstate your point. But all I can do is read and comment on what you write.

I cannot believe I wasted all this time reading those posts from "dickhead".

I love mary.

DLord pwns......I think I have a man crush on DL now.

> Correct it is a rookie contract.
> Look at Larry's website and you will see even there shows areas of restriction.
> I am not going to hold your hand on it, just read up on it since it is your CBA bible, which it is still not the complete CBA info, and also is not the official rulebook on this situation, because there are still other loopholes in the CBA.
> Actually you looked silly when you defended LORD.
> I have noticed alot of double standards going on, which seems more of a cult than a forum. Not once did you and a couple of others correct any other posters during this time frame.
> Still no knowledge from you on this issue. Stop riding others, post your own thoughts.
> This tells me that you are indeed a journalist. Your credibility is now shot with me.
> All you do is research what you find on the internet.
> Your statements above shows me that you indeed think you are "LORD" here on basketball. Just re-read your own posts. You feel you are better equipped than all others.

you are such a moron man, go to dallasbasketball.com and read most of the work on the homepage. Its some of the most insightful Mavs writing you will find(well except for the parts fish writes) and its by Mr. Lord. Until then could you try to make even a little bit of sense?

i think you are the second person ive ever neg repped(Jet was the other) It takes a special level of lunacy for me to take the extra 15 seconds to neg rep you. You have reached that level.

> I give a rats behind about a basketball sports writer. Ask any player what they feel about a sports writer....Now put that on record. Keyword "Writer"...I have never given credibility to a sports writer just because that is his job.
> His job to me and most other players is ENTERTAINMENT...
> Until he tells me he has signed an actually contract and had an actual agent and attorney to decipher the CBA for him then dont expect me to see him as an self-proclaimed expert with the CBA.
> Not even current NBA players can decipher it. It takes an attorney to decipher the CBA, and a good one at that.
> Ask Cuban this question and see what he tells you...

...someone defaulting to "its too complicated for you to understand!" everytime he is challenged. That's just a defense mechanism for not having a valid argument.

[Re "It takes an attorney to decipher the CBA"] Yet you can?

So pretty much not a single person on these boards or anywhere else on the internet has your approval to discuss the CBA?

call me naive, but I have no concern about Josh getting money and years that will make both he and the team happy....unless there really are CBA issues that would stop the proceedings from coming to a peaceful resolution...which I doubt.

would you PLEASE try to make some kind of sense? Why dont you mention what these mysterious restrictions you speak of are instead of just calling them restrictions? You sound like a little kid talking about the boogeyman...

He has built up credibility while you on the other hand come in here and mention things with no basis nor backup and bash everyone else because they didnt play pro ball.

> I do know some restrictions that hender deals like this to get done. I also do know that their is a difference between what the Mavs can offer now and after this season. It is hard for me to put it in words w/o an attorney, but their is alot of things behind the scene that the public dont have access to
> All I am saying is that it is not "Cut" and "Dry" like most people think. I know this personally.
> The Mavs are restricted to show their top hand right now because of the CBA.
> Josh and his camp feel his value is more than what the max in the CBA can offer him. The sticky point is that MAYBE or MAYBE not Josh's camp is right. That is the issue that keeps the deal from getting down.
> I wish I could explain it better, but I cant put it in a language that you would accept from me.
> It could be that Josh would accept the max extension contract, but the Mavs have not offered it yet, hoping to milk Howard's play for this year to be like most others in their final contract year.
> I am not an attorney or expert to the CBA and DLORD is NOT as well. If he was he would not be a writer, he would be an attorney.

That's funny. Two pages ago we had to explain to you who David Lord was, now you're completely familiar with him and have read "lots" of his "posts". Nice bit.

My head hurts. Can't we pay a mod to ban this guy or something?

Credit is almost making me wish we'd let Josh walk so he'd stfu.

Wow. What a craptacular retreat.....what craptacular crap in general. There should be an admissions test or something for newbs.

>Every NBA groupie is just as persistent as yourself. Ever heard of cold shoulder? What about falling on death ears?
> Even DLORD will tell you, most players cant stand sports-writers. This goes back a long time ago.
> Nothing personal, but DLORD will tell you as well, there have traditionally been a bad blood relationship with media/players. Namely because players feel that the media dont give them a fair shake.
> Players normally respect former players when it comes to media people.

What is more sad? That he doesn't realize how stupid, pompous and pathologically retarded he sounds or that he cannot frame a thought in a coherent sentence?

> Far from stupid or old, but I guess you are catechized enough to say that? I would never listen to a loquacious person like yourself when you post like this. Never mind how I decide to post, I just post and hit the submit button. When did a message board become the cream of society for spell check? See your last post farther proved that for the most part philistinism is a common trait in many who have blasted me simply because my view point was different. Now go break that down, Mr. Pundit...

The thesaurus is a wonderful thing.

Woe is me..you guys quit picking on me...This whole thread has been a pissing match and you aren't winning it.

Pirate · 10-11-2006, 09:32 AM

And Finally, The Classic Ender ...

An amazing post by blahblehblah was an incredible capper to all the above. Obviously tongue in cheek, it needs to be framed. What an incredible parody. I quote it here in its entirety. As fluid-forty-one termed it, "Best Post Ever."

------------------------------------

As a fellow professional athlete I have to come to creditExpert’s defense!
And as a member of the current Dallas Mavericks I know exactly what he is talking about.

It is without a doubt that Erick Dampier is the MIP on the Mavs. Yes Dampier is the Most Indispensible Player, everyone on the team would agree. Now, before you guys argue or insult this statement, be aware MIP is common mavericks basketball terminology that refers to player the team has the hardest time getting rid of, waking up, pushing off the dinner table etc. Erick is by far the biggest, strongest and laziest among us and its hard to get rid of him… I realize that may not be the proper use of the word but anyone who played basketball on a professional level will know it. Sorry to use that terminology with you all. Clearly you dont understand MVP and M I(Indeispensible) Player in the world of professional sports. Anytime you take my post and say that I call Dampier the MVP over Dirk lets me know you are just a lowly lowly lowly fan.

Regarding Howard’s contract, creditExpert is right again. I am not an CBA expert but I do know there are 600+ CBA restrictions that hinder the deal ATM. I also do know that their is a difference between what the Mavs can offer now and after this season. It is hard for me to put it in words w/o an attorney, but their is alot of things behind the scene that the public dont have access to and I will try to have my agent Jery Mcguire explain it to you later.

So trust me when I say it is not "Cut" and "Dry" like most people think. I know this personally as a member of the Maverick . Jay-Mac aka jerry mcquire(I call him that cuz we are buddies) told me Howard should get 8-10 million but there are a lot of restrictions (600+) in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can personally name 60 of these restrictions.

However I wont reveal these restrictions as I don’t want to hold your lowly fan’s hand in this. Simply go research it on the CBA and scroll up or down or sideways. Its there in invisible ink somewhere… Jerry told me they were.

Lastly I noticed alot of double standards going on this cult forum. Not once did you guys correct any other posters beside THE WRONG POSTER during this thread… whats up with that? Why pick only on the person who is wrong? That shows u guys are a bunch of cult followers.

As for Dlord, im letting you know now, I wont be granting you any more interviews. And Dlord plz stop pretending you can possibly read the CBA, its not even in English man! Jerry told me No current NBA players can decipher it. It takes an attorney and ONLY an attornry to decipher the CBA, and a good one at that. That’s why we pay him 80% of our earnings.

P.S.
Don’t even think or DARE to ask me who I am or what my jersey number is! I don’t have to prove my credibility just because I’m the one who made the public claim to have it. Just know that I know!

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 10:22 AM

haha, that thread was classic. Am i the only one that has thought that credit might be a regular using an alias just to stir crap up? Blahs post was the best post i have ever read seriously. He has quite the talent for parody.

dude1394 · 10-11-2006, 11:04 AM

This one confused me..

Quote:

> That is why you see so many deals where the signing bonus is so high and the salary is lower.

Maybe he's actually a professional football player and wandered onto the wrong board. I don't recall any large signing bonueses in bball, most are guaranteed contracts??

Yea and blah was greatness.

fluid.forty.one · 10-11-2006, 12:13 PM

I'm glad I put my stamp on one of the most epic threads ever. Thanks for the laughs credit... you idiot.

MavsX · 10-11-2006, 01:03 PM

credit sucks worse than my left nut if that makes any sense...big props PIRATE for taking the time to combine all of credits garbage

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 01:05 PM

well, at least the thread was good for my rep...

Underdog · 10-11-2006, 02:21 PM

Yeah, I discovered that playing neutral doesn't get you much rep... I tried to define his debate as I understood it, but his ego took over & the original argument took a flying leap in a rolling donut... If you're gonna dig yourself out of a hole, dig UP!

MavsX · 10-11-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I discovered that playing neutral doesn't get you much rep... I tried to define his debate as I understood it, but his ego took over & the original argument took a flying leap in a rolling donut... If you're gonna dig yourself out of a hole, dig UP!

Well, i'll tell you little cowpoke, when the snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat.

Underdog · 10-11-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

Well, i'll tell you little cowpoke, when the snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat.

Did you get that from a book of bad cliches? That made about as much sense as the Josh Howard Contract Thread...

MavsX · 10-11-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Did you get that from a book of bad cliches? That made about as much sense as the Josh Howard Contract Thread...

haha, nah i stole it from a dilbert cartoon..i know i know..call me gay if you want..but that shit is funny..and yes it makes no sense..thats why its genius!

MavsX · 10-11-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Did you get that from a book of bad cliches? That made about as much sense as the Josh Howard Contract Thread...

i know i said call me gay and all, but i wasn't expecting geting REP and calling me "gay"

hahaa, thanks

Underdog · 10-11-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

i know i said call me gay and all, but i wasn't expecting geting REP and calling me "gay"

hahaa, thanks

That's how I roll... (um, the "random rep" part, not the "gay" part!)

[don't read too deeply into the wink...]

MavsX · 10-11-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's how I roll... (um, the "random rep" part, not the "gay" part!)

[don't read too deeply into the wink...]

haha....you're gay! i knew it! just kidding

Drbio · 10-11-2006, 05:10 PM

genius.

It's funny seeing the responses in this manner. Rep up Pirate.

creditXpert2003 · 10-11-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I discovered that playing neutral doesn't get you much rep... I tried to define his debate as I understood it, but his ego took over & the original argument took a flying leap in a rolling donut... If you're gonna dig yourself out of a hole, dig UP!

Should stick to the wolf routine, your sarcasm in sheep clothing was the first thing I noticed. I am so glad that I got several messages from the normal regulars that I was dealing with the kids of the board. I just wish someone had told me before. I guess they forgot to mention you as well.

Keep up the good work with your fellow kiddie chums. So who is the coach for the AAU team that you and the rest of the chum fellows play with? Good luck this season. Remember after this, intramurals will be waiting for you in college.

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Should stick to the wolf routine, your sarcasm in sheep clothing was the first thing I noticed. I am so glad that I got several messages from the normal regulars that I was dealing with the kids of the board. I just wish someone had told me before. I guess they forgot to mention you as well.

Keep up the good work with your fellow kiddie chums. So who is the coach for the AAU team that you and the rest of the chum fellows play with? Good luck this season. Remember after this, intramurals will be waiting for you in college.

Wow, one thread wasnt enough lunacy for you? I love the whole, I have received many messages plot. Its great because its completely unprovable. I would love to know what "regulars" you are reffering to since the majority of the regulars were involved in that thread and all of them except chummy agreed that you were an idiot.

chumdawg · 10-11-2006, 05:31 PM

I thought his original premise was an interesting one, and at least worthy of genuine discussion. Once the thread devolved into a pissing match, it wasn't worth carrying on the original discussion. In fact, I don't think it was even possible.

But the original premise was thought-provoking. Too bad it got buried in the biggest dogpile I've seen in a long time.

We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops.

jthig32 · 10-11-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I thought his original premise was an interesting one, and at least worthy of genuine discussion. Once the thread devolved into a pissing match, it wasn't worth carrying on the original discussion. In fact, I don't think it was even possible.

But the original premise was thought-provoking. Too bad it got buried in the biggest dogpile I've seen in a long time.

We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops.

Shocking that the resident contrarian would take this guy's side.

Seriously, his point changed several different times. Go back and read. His original point was that the Mavs would miss Josh the most if he went down with injury. He then backtracked from that, and came up with a slightly better argument.

It doesn't matter if his point was worth discussion or not. He was so condescending, throwing around his supposed basketball career as proof that he had insider knowledge, no one was going to listen to him, and rightfully so.

fluid.forty.one · 10-11-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Should stick to the wolf routine, your sarcasm in sheep clothing was the first thing I noticed. I am so glad that I got several messages from the normal regulars that I was dealing with the kids of the board. I just wish someone had told me before. I guess they forgot to mention you as well.

Keep up the good work with your fellow kiddie chums. So who is the coach for the AAU team that you and the rest of the chum fellows play with? Good luck this season. Remember after this, intramurals will be waiting for you in college.

And exactly which regulars did you get PMs from? Or can you "not say" again?

A few of the top main posters on this board PM'd me telling me to give you negative rep so I find it hard to believe your story. Chum might have possibly PM'd you but I know no one else did. Every other regular has gone on record saying you're an idiot.

creditXpert2003 · 10-11-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I thought his original premise was an interesting one, and at least worthy of genuine discussion. Once the thread devolved into a pissing match, it wasn't worth carrying on the original discussion. In fact, I don't think it was even possible.

But the original premise was thought-provoking. Too bad it got buried in the biggest dogpile I've seen in a long time.

We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops.

Thanks....As I also started to view their profile, it told me alot. It was a little late but from some birdies and looking at the profiles myself I saw that these were the kids on the message board.

jthig32 · 10-11-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Should stick to the wolf routine, your sarcasm in sheep clothing was the first thing I noticed. I am so glad that I got several messages from the normal regulars that I was dealing with the kids of the board. I just wish someone had told me before. I guess they forgot to mention you as well.

Keep up the good work with your fellow kiddie chums. So who is the coach for the AAU team that you and the rest of the chum fellows play with? Good luck this season. Remember after this, intramurals will be waiting for you in college.

You continu to equate basketball ability with basketball knowledge, and shove your supposed basketball career in the faces of all us normal joes.

I don't care who sent you messages saying you were dealing with the "kiddos". You were dealing with several valuable and respected members of this board.

So keep digging pal. Keep trying to prove you have something over us because you supposedly dribbled a ball better than a few of us.

fluid.forty.one · 10-11-2006, 05:36 PM

And Xpert, it's not like we're huge douche bags who are mean to every new person that comes in. Actually I don't think I've been mean to a single person, or even gotten in an argument with a single person since I got here. (MightyToine doesn't count lol). I haven't seen anyone else fighting really either.

So it might be YOU bud, not us.

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I thought his original premise was an interesting one, and at least worthy of genuine discussion. Once the thread devolved into a pissing match, it wasn't worth carrying on the original discussion. In fact, I don't think it was even possible.

But the original premise was thought-provoking. Too bad it got buried in the biggest dogpile I've seen in a long time.

We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops.

but thats the problem, the original premise wasnt really thought provoking. the idea that you can just say the Super stars cancel each other out is a horrific argument because it assumes that all superstars are equal which they arent. I mean honestly if you were going to make that argument at what position do you stop the argument? All second best player each other out, all 3rd best players cancel each other out and so on and so fourth. The problem is that even though superstars might generally be similar in terms of how they help the team, there are different levels. If anything if you want to make the argument that Josh is the MIP because Dirk and other superstars cancel out, then its horrible for the mavs because at least 10 teams have a 2 players better than josh(meaning their second best player would be better than josh) Whats funny is that he mentioned Kobe and lebron as guys who are mvps without mips when kobe definitely has a better "MIP" (his definition) and lebron arguably does with big Z.

jthig32 · 10-11-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Thanks....As I also started to view their profile, it told me alot. It was a little late but from some birdies and looking at the profiles myself I saw that these were the kids on the message board.

Yeah, those "kiddos" include two of the oldest posters on this board, and a moderator...

But seriously, keep telling yourself that.

Underdog · 10-11-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Should stick to the wolf routine, your sarcasm in sheep clothing was the first thing I noticed. I am so glad that I got several messages from the normal regulars that I was dealing with the kids of the board. I just wish someone had told me before. I guess they forgot to mention you as well.

Keep up the good work with your fellow kiddie chums. So who is the coach for the AAU team that you and the rest of the chum fellows play with? Good luck this season. Remember after this, intramurals will be waiting for you in college.

What are you talking about??? I haven't said a single negative thing about you on this entire forum... I just mentioned that I was trying to be a neutral mediator, but couldn't help you because you got too deep into it with other members of this board (some of the same people I've gotten into long debates with, as a matter of fact...)

Seriously, man - you need to get over yourself because I couldn't give two shits about you at this point...

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 05:40 PM

BTW on the kids thing, Im not sure about anyone else but if this guy really is an older gentleman(and i use the term loosely) its very possible that both Nashty and myself and I believe Fluid could be considered kids by him. Im 20(about to be 21) and nashty is 15 i believe so yeah we are fairly young(fluid i think you are in college but i could be wrong) That said, it doesnt dismiss the questions that I asked in between jabs.

When you bring your personal life into a discussion, you open it up to commentary. If you dont want to answer questions about your personal life, thats fine and probably a good habit to be in on the internet but dont bring it up as a way to give yourself credibility and then get mad when people ask you about it.

fluid.forty.one · 10-11-2006, 05:43 PM

Yeah, I'm 18.

You'd think if Xpert was really an older gentlemen he'd be able to write a little better.

jthig32 · 10-11-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

BTW on the kids thing, Im not sure about anyone else but if this guy really is an older gentleman(and i use the term loosely) its very possible that both Nashty and myself and I believe Fluid could be considered kids by him. Im 20(about to be 21) and nashty is 15 i believe so yeah we are fairly young(fluid i think you are in college but i could be wrong) That said, it doesnt dismiss the questions that I asked in between jabs.

When you bring your personal life into a discussion, you open it up to commentary. If you dont want to answer questions about your personal life, thats fine and probably a good habit to be in on the internet but dont bring it up as a way to give yourself credibility and then get mad when people ask you about it.

The kiddos thing is bogus anyway. Doc Sike and Mary were involved in the thread. You're talking about DM.com royalty with those three. Not to mention DLord, who is VERY respected among that Dallas basketball community.

Trying to act like it was some small subsection of the board giving him grief is ridiculous.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-11-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

And Xpert, it's not like we're huge douche bags who are mean to every new person that comes in. Actually I don't think I've been mean to a single person, or even gotten in an argument with a single person since I got here. (MightyToine doesn't count lol). I haven't seen anyone else fighting really either.

So it might be YOU bud, not us.

Right, I try to be nice to the newbies unless they are trolls or just totally full of it.

Btw, well done Pirate, thanks for the summary.

chumdawg · 10-11-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Shocking that the resident contrarian would take this guy's side.

Seriously, his point changed several different times. Go back and read. His original point was that the Mavs would miss Josh the most if he went down with injury. He then backtracked from that, and came up with a slightly better argument.

It doesn't matter if his point was worth discussion or not. He was so condescending, throwing around his supposed basketball career as proof that he had insider knowledge, no one was going to listen to him, and rightfully so.

I did go back and read, and it confirmed my initial feelings. The way I read it, he put forth some opinions (more on those in a moment) and joined in a pretty lively discussion. Then he made (what I guess was) the mistake of mentioning his history playing ball.

Now, I thought that the way he presented that was interesting. He came right out and said he went overseas but couldn't make it to the NBA. And then he said there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that the everyday fan doesn't see. I'm sure that's true. But for whatever reason, this part didn't go over well with some of the guys around here. (I'm sure it probably had something to do with the thread in the lounge about the Yahoo forum.)

And the NEXT thing to happen was that names started being called. He held out for a little while before responding, but the dogpile was getting pretty deep. And once that happened, then it all unraveled from there.

Anyway, I'm sure everyone here will forget about it in a day or two, so I don't think it's much of a big deal anyway.

However, I *do* remain intrigued by this idea of the importance of the "second fiddle," as it were. I have heard from a few people, whose opinions I respect, that believe Jordan would have never won a title (or at least, not won near as many) without Pippen. I really do believe there is something to that concept.

And I am also intrigued by the idea that Howard is up and coming to the extent that in a few years he may be the best player on the team. Intriguing notion.

And finally, I'm interested in hearing about this hand injury that up till now I have never heard about. Don't you find that interesting? Maybe it's bullshit. Who knows? But if this guy does have some inside info, my guess is you won't be getting it anymore.

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The kiddos thing is bogus anyway. Doc Sike and Mary were involved in the thread. You're talking about DM.com royalty with those three. Not to mention DLord, who is VERY respected among that Dallas basketball community.

Trying to act like it was some small subsection of the board giving him grief is ridiculous.

Well I was trying to be fair to the guy since though i doubt it, there is a slight chance he could salvage himself and become a decent new poster which im always happy to see. I was the one that first went personal so its entirely possible that if someone had sent him pm(though i doubt it) they would have meant me as a kid which like i said for most older adults, i would be considered a kid. To be honest i still consider myself mostly a kid.

Five-ofan · 10-11-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I did go back and read, and it confirmed my initial feelings. The way I read it, he put forth some opinions (more on those in a moment) and joined in a pretty lively discussion. Then he made (what I guess was) the mistake of mentioning his history playing ball.

Now, I thought that the way he presented that was interesting. He came right out and said he went overseas but couldn't make it to the NBA. And then he said there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that the everyday fan doesn't see. I'm sure that's true. But for whatever reason, this part didn't go over well with some of the guys around here. (I'm sure it probably had something to do with the thread in the lounge about the Yahoo forum.)

And the NEXT thing to happen was that names started being called. He held out for a little while before responding, but the dogpile was getting pretty deep. And once that happened, then it all unraveled from there.

Anyway, I'm sure everyone here will forget about it in a day or two, so I don't think it's much of a big deal anyway.

However, I *do* remain intrigued by this idea of the importance of the "second fiddle," as it were. I have heard from a few people, whose opinions I respect, that believe Jordan would have never won a title (or at least, not won near as many) without Pippen. I really do believe there is something to that concept.

And I am also intrigued by the idea that Howard is up and coming to the extent that in a few years he may be the best player on the team. Intriguing notion.

And finally, I'm interested in hearing about this hand injury that up till now I have never heard about. Don't you find that interesting? Maybe it's bullshit. Who knows? But if this guy does have some inside info, my guess is you won't be getting it anymore.

I completely agree about Pippen with jordan, the theory of needing a second star isnt remotely new. The problem is that like i mentioned earlier as far as second stars go, Josh is below average at best. Hes not a star and thats all there is to it.

As for the hand injury he is talking about Joshs Thumb which was injured fairly badly. I thought that was common knowledge.

Edit-A list of guys who are not the best player on their team and yet better than howard(thus a better version of what he is mentioning)

Shaq(or wade if you feel that way)
Yao
Rip
Marion(or Nash)
Odom
Boozer(or AK)
Rashard Lewis(this one is arguable)
Bibby
Sam Cassell
Kidd(or jefferson or Carter, they are all better than josh)
Jamison

Now a couple of those are arguable but i could have come up with a few more. My point being if Josh being this MIP is what sets the mavs up to win a title, we need to pack it up and go home because there are a good many teams with a better "MIP" than josh.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-11-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And I am also intrigued by the idea that Howard is up and coming to the extent that in a few years he may be the best player on the team. Intriguing notion.

And finally, I'm interested in hearing about this hand injury that up till now I have never heard about. Don't you find that interesting? Maybe it's bullshit. Who knows? But if this guy does have some inside info, my guess is you won't be getting it anymore.

Howard will not be better than Dirk in a few years.

I though it was a thumb injury, but we knew at the time that he was playing with some injury involving his hand because he always had it taped, Jet did too.

I doubt he has inside info, and I doubt he stops sharing it if he does. He seems very stubborn so I expect he'll be back many times.