Kidd to Dallas

[toucandave]

Wow.....JGalvan, that was really uncalled for. Go back under your rock.

[capitalcity]

Originally posted by: Joey

Dude, you have many issues...Go see a therapist. Would you like anyone talking about your family like that? This is a basketball thread; leave the family alone.

Kidd would be an awesome addition. With his passing skills and his defensive ability, Kidd would automatically raise up the talent on this team. Look at K-Mart and J-Rich, not all-star caliber players until J-Kidd. But now, they are on everybody's lists thanks to Kidd. Plus with him and AJ tutoring Harris, there is no telling how well the kid will progress. I love JHo, but if that is the kicker, I'd gladly do it.

Do we have a web page yet?

Thanks for the advice Joey. I be sure to see someone about my issues.
Does anybody have Bob Ryan's phone number?

[capitalcity]

After seeing cuban deal with Nash, I doubt he would trade away arguably our best defender and Fin's eventual replacement for 2 bad contracts in Kidd & Zo. (even if that solves the walker/stack situation)

The more pressing issue remains the Center spot. Why make a move for an aging point guard before seeing whether Devin or Marquis can handle the job? Use L8, walk, or stack for another big and a vet PG.

Besides if Kidd still wants out in December or January maybe NJ would settle for just Walker & filler. We will know by then what we have in Devin Harris.

[Joey]

Originally posted by: mavs413

Kidd never played with J-Rich. I think you mean Richard Jefferson which would be R-Jeff, but that sounds stupid.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

True, thanks.

[madape]

I have my doubts whether Kidd is healthy or not, but if he is, he would be incredible for the Mavs. I would give up Walker, Stackhouse and Howard for him in a second on the condition that we can anull the trade if he fails his physical.

And with all due respect to the traitorous, mercenary worm Steve Nash - Steve Nash is no Jason Kidd. If Jason Kidd is healthy, he is easily the best point guard in the game and one of the top five of all time. If any point guard is worth Max money, it is Jason Kidd. I don't think Cuban hesitates.

[vinnieponte]

Kidd would be great for this team, yet it most likely never happen otherwise we would of just met nash's offer and secondly I think Mark is to busy worring and promoting his "reality show" rather than making some serious moves to improve our roster. Wait until the season starts, the real reality show will start and all the drama that follows

[mavsman55]

Whoever is saying they wouldn't give up Howard for Kidd needs to think things through a bit more. Why wouldn't you want to give up two volume shooters and one good player for possibly one of the best point guards in the league, if not the world? With a lineup of:

Kidd/D. Harris/Steffanson
Daniels/L. Harris
Finley/??
Nowitzki/Najera
Booth/Bradley/Mourning

Come on, this would make us a better defensive team and give us not only a replacement for Nash but an <u>upgrade</u> over him. I'd do it without thinking twice.

[chumdawg]

Now that I have thought more about this Kidd thing...maybe it's just possible that this was the plan all along. Let's think about it:

--Reading Cuban's blog about the Nash thing, you come to the impression that Cuban is highly in tune with where other teams are financially. Surely he could have known that NJ would look to cut costs this summer. Perhaps he judged that Kidd would be on the market this offseason.

--We know that the Mavs had strong interest in Kidd last year. No reason to believe they shouldn't still have that interest. (No reason except the contract that is, but in the past Cubes had shown a willingness to take on talent regardless of the contract.)

--So perhaps he felt as though he might have some sort of choice between Nash and Kidd.

--Kidd would be expensive, but better than Nash. But if Nash could be had at a much better contract, then this may have been the better overall choice for the team. So he lowballs Steve, thinking that if he signs him to that deal, he's at least as well off as he would have been with Kidd (and his contract).

--Nash then leaves for nothing of course, which is highly out of character with the Mavs' history. it just doesn't make any sense. Unless that is, he wasn't leaving for nothing. The position was actually being upgraded, just not immediately.

--Cuban explains away the contract situation with Steve, but none of the Mavs' brass really give us a strong answer about their point guard plans. Maybe Harris starts, maybe Daniels plays the point some, maybe a veteran. Of course, they are not allowed to mention Kidd at all, because he is under contract to another team.

--Here we are, July 29, and Walker hasn't been dealt yet. Jamison has. It seems apparent that Walker will definitely be dealt this off-season. So they are waiting for something. Not for something to come up. Waiting for something already in place. Jamison would have been of no interest to the Nets. So he could be dealt right away. Walker, on the other hand, can provide them the cap savings they may be looking for.

A straight-up Walker for Kidd deal would make sense of this whole off-season so far. It would explain why we got no compensation when Nash left. It would explain why Walker hasn't been dealt.

And if it happened, it would move us all the way from (possible) disaster status at PG to (probable) upgrade status. That alone would make for a nice off-season. But couple it with a top-5 talent in the draft, a couple promising center prospects on board, and the swap of a not-needed PF for a much-needed shot-blocker and backup center...and you have yourself a hell of an offseason.

Kidd/Harris/
Daniels/Stackhouse
Finley/Howard
Dirk/Najera/Laettner
Bradley/Booth/Benga

Now, then, all the ducks are in a row.

[Mavs Rule]

I like your thinking Chumdawg, but a Walker for Kidd straight up trade does not work salary wise. But Walker and Laetner I think does.

As far as Cuban seeing all this ahead of time, I doubt it, but it is possible. He would have to have foreseen that the Nets new owners want to cut salary, and therefore they would not resign Martin. He would have to also see that Kidd would not want to play with a rebuilding team and demand a trade. He would also have to foresee that the Nets would want expiring contracts and gather as much as possible before the proposed trade (getting Laetner and adding Walker). And on top of all this he would have to foresee the Suns giving Nash a killer deal to start it all off. Thats a lot of dominoes that have to fall perfect for us to get Kidd. I don't think Cubes planned all that, but I do think that he will take advatage of the way the dominoes have fallen, and we just might be lucky enough to get Kidd back to Dallas.

[capitalcity]

Originally posted by: mavsman55
Whoever is saying they wouldn't give up Howard for Kidd needs to think things through a bit more. Why wouldn't you want to give up two volume shooters and one good player for possibly one of the best point guards in the league, if not the world? With a lineup of:

Kidd/D. Harris/Steffanson
Daniels/L. Harris
Finley/??
Nowitzki/Najera
Booth/Bradley/Mourning

Come on, this would make us a better defensive team and give us not only a replacement for Nash but an <u>upgrade</u> over him. I'd do it without thinking twice.

Of course i would part with Howard to get Kidd - if there is no other way around it.

However - don't assume NJ won't deal Kidd for just walker and filler. If they are desperate and we hold all the cards why not call their bluff.

It looks like they are ready to have a fire sale. They practically gave Kittles away - why should we play fair in a deal for Kidd?

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
I dont like Kidd in Dallas - age, health, money are the reasons. If he was 3 years younger, you can take on that contract, but not now IMO. I think NJ would love to find a sucker ummmm errrrrr a "trade partner" for him if they could

Oh and one more issue: intelligence ....

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees."
-Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks

Poindexter, do you think Jason was prophesying when he was quoted above? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] He will have made the full circle (360 degrees) when he comes to Dallas as the returning prodigal son! He started out in the promise land only to leave to go to the desert "Sun", and after that going to the meadowlands to waste more time in losing ventures. Only after serious reflection and injury does he decide to come "home" where the RING (NBA championship) and the "Fatted Calf" await him. His father is waiting to meet him, when will he come?!! Lets hope August is the month. [img]i/expressions/wine.gif[/img]

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: capitalcity

Of course i would part with Howard to get Kidd - if there is no other way around it.

However - don't assume NJ won't deal Kidd for just walker and filler. If they are desperate and we hold all the cards why not call their bluff.

It looks like they are ready to have a fire sale. They practically gave Kittles away - why should we play fair in a deal for Kidd?

Good thinking. They traded away Kittles for a 2nd round pick, I mean, DANG! If it's in any way possible to hang on to Howard and land Kidd then by all means, go for it. But if including him is necessary, I wouldn't have any doubts about pulling this one through.

[GIGEMLAW]

I think you guys may be onto something.

NJ trades Kidd, Mourning, plus part of their trade exception.

Dal trades Walker, Laetner, and Delk.

What this give NJ:

Future cap room, gets rid of a disgruntled Kidd, gets rid of a dead K in Mourning. Allows them to fill there roster up more which is currently at I think 9 players.

What this gives DAL:

They get there vet PG, buy out Alonzo's K or TAW's K, they lower there roster down by 1 even without a buyout. They ship off an unhappy Walker, seldom used Delk, and Laetner who wouldn't have much of a role in Dal this year.

It leaves DAL with a roster of:

Kidd/Harris/AJ
Daniels/Stackhouse/Steffanson
Finley/Howard/TAW?
Dirk/Najera/Benga
Booth/Bradley/P-Pod/Mourning?

[EricaLubarsky]

benga aint no PF

[grndmstr_c]

a Walker for Kidd straight up trade does not work salary wise.

According to hoopshype, Kidd makes 14.796 million, Walker makes 14.625 million. If those numbers are correct a straight up trade would work.

[EricaLubarsky]

looks like less than 2% when we have 15% to work with

[MAVSWIN]

I would do it in a heart beat!

[madape]

This trade makes so much sense. I have to think that there is a good chance it gets done.

Additionally, I think the Vince Carter deal can go down WITHOUT Antoine Walker. It's very possible that the Mavericks can land both Kidd AND Carter.

How scary is a starting lineup of Kidd, Carter, Finley, Dirk, Bradley?

[sike]

How scary is a starting lineup of Kidd, Carter, Finley, Dirk, Bradley?

very

[fabolous]

Originally posted by: sike

very

But imo with this lineup u have the same problem like last season.
dirk wont be the leader and clear go-to-guy.
if we can get kidd for walker there is no need for carter imo.

[Mavs Rule]

Nets: Kidd ready to walk
Friday, July 30, 2004
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index...64231266180.xml

The Bruce Ratner Fire Sale continued in earnest yesterday, when the Nets gave away yet another piece of their franchise -- and their history -- by shipping Kerry Kittles to the Los Angeles Clippers for virtually nothing.

Which raises the question: Just how low can the Nets go?

This low: According to a team official, Jason Kidd returned from his Mexican vacation yesterday and immediately requested a meeting with management at Ratner's earliest convenience, at which time the Nets' captain is expected to demand a trade.

And to further illustrate the goals of the new ownership group, a close friend of Alonzo Mourning yesterday disclosed that the disabled center wants to attempt a comeback, but has been informed by the team that his services are no longer desired, as it would rather lop his salary off the cap after next season.

Team president Rod Thorn, who in an afternoon conference call with reporters sounded as though he had his soul ripped out by a savage tax collector, attempted to spin the Kittles trade into a positive move that will allow his depleted team to fill the gaping voids at other positions while saving the $9.8 million that remained on Kittles' contract.

"The purpose for us was very simple: We're obviously trying to restructure our team, and it's going to make it much easier after we make this deal," said Thorn, whose team received a second-round draft pick in the deal, which also included a $1.5 million payment to L.A.

"I feel very confident we'll end up with a strong two-guard position, but we have other needs we have to address, and if we stayed the way we were, we wouldn't be able to address them. That in a nutshell is why we did this trade."

The ramifications, however, could get very complicated -- and ugly.

Thorn, whose team picked up journeyman subs Rodney Buford and Jacque Vaughn yesterday, said last night that his conversation with Kidd about the Kittles deal was brief.

"I talked to someone who was with him," Thorn said. "I talked to Jason for about three seconds."

Presumably enough time for Kidd to slam down the phone. While Thorn would not confirm Kidd's mood or whether a meeting was requested, Kidd's anger over the sacrifice of his backcourt partner was felt throughout the organization -- so much that it is now widely assumed that he will demand a trade.

Agent Jeff Schwartz, who was traveling yesterday, did not return calls seeking comment. But another member of Kidd's inner circle predicted the worst.

"He took the Nets' money because they told him they were going to try to win the championship -- false pretenses," Kidd's friend said. "Knowing Jason, he'll want out. I'd bet that he's not playing until they trade him."

The Nets have now lost three of their top seven players -- Kenyon Martin, Rodney Rogers and Kittles -- and received no live bodies in return. They have also trimmed their payroll from $62 million to its present $47.5 million, and there is no guarantee that they are done hacking more salaries. It is possible, for example, that the Nets will buy out Lucious Harris, who has $2.65 million coming to him next season.

It also appears as though they would dissuade Mourning from returning, even though he has been in the gym almost daily for the past two months. According to Zo's friend, he told the Nets that he would like to play again, and showed ample readiness with a strong performance at his charity game last week. But the team would rather see him retire -- thereby allowing it to save $12 million after the last two years of his salary come off the salary cap.

Mourning's agent, Jeff Wechsler, said last night that a comeback from last December's kidney transplant "hasn't come up -- Alonzo made his comments earlier this summer that he has no plans to play, and I'd believe what Alonzo says."

Thorn added, "He's been working out, and there's certainly no doubt that if he can play he would like to play...but it's too early to comment about it."

When asked whether the bean counters would welcome Mourning back, Thorn's response was intentionally vague: "If he's able to play," he said, "I'm sure he'll be here."

Kittles leaves New Jersey after 496 games covering seven seasons, in which time he became the Nets' second-leading scorer behind Buck Williams. He also had more steals than any other Net besides Darwin Cook, played more minutes than anyone other than Williams, and led the franchise in most 3-point categories.

Still, Thorn referred to Kittles as "a role player. If you look at our team, we have spots to fill. By making this trade it puts us in a better position to fill other spots."

Besides the Clippers' second-round pick next year, the Nets also get a $9.8 million exception that can be used only in a trade, but they are not likely to use it. To fill out the roster, Thorn has targeted Ron Mercer and Newark native Eric Williams, hopeful they'd be willing to split their midlevel exception, that extra $4.9 million fund that capped-out teams can spend on free agents.

"There's interest on the Nets' part and the lure of New Jersey is attractive on Eric's part," agent Mark Bartelstein said yesterday. "I think he'd be a great fit in a variety of ways."

[vinnieponte]

We MUST get Kidd! We lost nash, gave the 6th man away for nothing, yes I said nothing, we still have Walker, Bradley wont do anything again this year, and ofcourse Mark will be too intrested in his reality show. Get Kidd, find a solution for our "center" and lets go out there and finally do something, I'm all for this trade!

[SeriousSummer]

Let's do this deal:




Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.9 ppg, -5.1 rpg, and +3.9 apg.

New Jersey trades: C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.9 ppg, +5.1 rpg, and -3.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


I'd also ask for a #1 draft choice--New Jersey has about a zillion of them. Mourning may never play, but he'd look better on the IR than TAW. And New Jersey wouldn't need to worry about any pesky pressure to play TAW, like they might get from Mourning.

New Jersey gets Walker's expiring contract--they're heading well below the salary cap at the end of next year. Of course, if they were foolish enough to do the deal without Howard, I'd do that, but taking TAW is enough of a burden that we might have to give them something.

[EricaLubarsky]

gave the 6th man away for nothing, yes I said nothing

Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse and Christian Laettner are nothing?

[LRB]

OK here's the trade I think might work.

Dallas trades: PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.6 ppg, -4.4 rpg, and +3.5 apg.

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 48 games)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, +4.4 rpg, and -3.5 apg.


This clear a butt load of cap room for NJ and gives them an established replacement for KMart at PF. I really don't want to lose Howard, and I don't feel that his worth would be as high with NJ as with other teams since they're essentially building around Richard Jefferson who plays the same position as Howard. Further more I'd sweeten the deal with $3 million, a future #1 draft pick, and steph if needed.

If the Mavs are serious about improving their D, Kidd would be an excellent acquisition. He would also be a terrific mentor for Harris. This way we can bring Harris along slowly. Kidd makes everyone around him better. He can't shoot worth a damn though, but with Fin and Dirk that won't be such a high priority.

This sets NJ up to be a major player in the FA game next year and bid on young players coming off their rookie contracts. Plus they get rid of Mourning's alabatross of a contract.

[grndmstr_c]

gave the 6th man away for nothing, yes I said nothing

Vinnie, just once I want to see you even try to back up one of these wack opinions you carry around with you.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Vinnie, just once I want to see you even try to back up one of these wack opinions you carry around with you.

Well I think Vinnie has a point. Look at the history of the Mavs. You've seen this over and over againg. Just look at what we got for Tractor Traylor. Nothing, yes I said nothing. [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

[vinnieponte]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Vinnie, just once I want to see you even try to back up one of these wack opinions you carry around with you.

Wack? Ok Devin should be a good backup, but c'mon are you serious, jamison, the 6th man of the year for these two guys [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: vinnieponte
Wack? Ok Devin should be a good backup, but c'mon are you serious, jamison, the 6th man of the year for these two guys [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Jerry Stackhouse - 13.9PPG, 3.60RPG, 4.0APG
Christian Laettner - 5.9PPG, 4.80RPG, 1.9APG - An expiring contract and a trade asset.
Devin Harris - Point Guard of the future

for

Antawn Jamison - 14.8PPG, 6.30RPG, .9APG

[LRB]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Jerry Stackhouse - 13.9PPG, 3.60RPG, 4.0APG
Christian Laettner - 5.9PPG, 4.80RPG, 1.9APG - An expiring contract and a trade asset.
Devin Harris - Point Guard of the future

for

Antawn Jamison - 14.8PPG, 6.30RPG, .9APG

Or 2 former all-stars, one with an expiring contract and the other with a reasonable contract, and a #5 pick for a reigning 6th man of the year with a maxed contract. Sounds like a good deal to me.

[endtroducing]

I'm not even worried about where Kidd will end up...isn't it basically a formality that he's coming here? who else has the players (and the contracts) to unload besides Dallas?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
I'm not even worried about where Kidd will end up...isn't it basically a formality that he's coming here? who else has the players (and the contracts) to unload besides Dallas?

Wasn't the same thing said about Shaq?

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: LRB

Wasn't the same thing said about Shaq?

the shaq thing was just a pipe dream...did anyone honestly think Kupchak was dumb enough to trade Shaq within the conference to face his nightmare of trading the best player in the game to a rival team?

Kidd, on the other hand, is in the East, and NJ wants expiring deals...and lots of them. we's gots 'em.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: endtroducing

the shaq thing was just a pipe dream...did anyone honestly think Kupchak was dumb enough to trade Shaq within the conference to face his nightmare of trading the best player in the game to a rival team?

Kidd, on the other hand, is in the East, and NJ wants expiring deals...and lots of them. we's gots 'em.

I certainly think tha that Kidd is more realistic than Shaq. And Kupchak's reluctance was a major factor. However, until the last, hardly anyone mentioned Miami as a possibility. We shouldn't just assume that we're the only one able to swing a deal. Portland for example has some expiring contracts as well.

[endtroducing]

interesting. portland is a very possible option, but would Kidd want to go there with that logjam at the point and less than stellar line-up?

[LRB]

Well at least he'd have a wife beaters support group there. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[MikeB]

They are actually talking about buying out Lucious....but a Laettner/Walker for Kidd/Zo works beautifully.

[Jamisonite]

The only reservation i have about Kidd is his age and length of his contract. Hes got 5 more years on his contract. Theres no way i give NJ Howard to take on their 2 worst contracts. I know when healthy Kidd is the best PG in the league, but either way that is a horrible contract.

[vinnieponte]

Originally posted by: LRB

Wasn't the same thing said about Shaq?

For once I can agree with LRB! I guess the biggest question will be, do you think Mark/Donnie will actually do something about this trade when Kidd announces his trade demand, or will Mark go on tv and say "hey we made a call, and they weren't intrested"?

[uberfan]

Bring in Kidd/Zo for Walker/Delk/Laettner. NJ gets tons of cap room.

Let Zo try to get ready to return by March if at all possible.

Go into the playoffs with this

PG: Kidd/Harris/Steff
SG: Stack/Daniels
SF: Fin/Howard
PF: Dirk/Najera
C: Zo/Booth/Bradley

To me, that is a balanced attack assume that Kidd and Zo can play from March-June.