Gortat appears* bound for a team not named the Dallas Mavericks - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Thespiralgoeson · 07-02-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I'm less than thrilled. I think Damp's way better, and this doesn't give us the offensive presence we'd been clamoring for all year by trying to bring over Kaman. He does have upside though, and generally NBA centers take 3 years in the league to really develop. So even though it's not captivating, I think it allows up to move Damp, and pairing that with Stack's contract might get us a legit wingman if there are any left to be had.

Bingo. If we're not going to move Damp, then there's really not much point.

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Bingo. If we're not going to move Damp, then there's really not much point.

If we get Gortat then he'll get dealt, it's just a matter of when and finding the right deal.

sefant77 · 07-02-2009, 09:24 PM

Lakers Artest MLE
Houston Ariza MLE
Mavs Gortat MLE
Detroit Villa MLE money

Hmmm...something smells funny here

LonghornDub · 07-02-2009, 09:27 PM

Gortat is better offensively than Damp. Damp is probably 3x the defender, as best I can tell.

jthig32 · 07-02-2009, 09:36 PM

I don't understand the people assuming Damp gets dealt now. You really think they're ready to commit 100% to playing Gortat 30+ minutes a night?

I don't think it's out of the question that they deal him, but it's significantly less than 50/50, I think.

You need two centers, imo.

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand the people assuming Damp gets dealt now. You really think they're ready to commit 100% to playing Gortat 30+ minutes a night?

I don't think it's out of the question that they deal him, but it's significantly less than 50/50, I think.

You need two centers, imo.

I think some people are viewing it as the market in FA and trades is drying up big time on swing players so they wanna use Damp while there is some time left now. But it can all open up again with more options when the season starts, Feb, after the season.

jthig32 · 07-02-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think some people are viewing it as the market in FA and trades is drying up big time on swing players so they wanna use Damp while there is some time left now. But it can all open up again with more options when the season starts, Feb, after the season.

But the thing is, Damps contracts isn't THAT valuable right now. It will be much more valuable at this season's trade deadline and INSANELY valuable during next offseason (double the value of Stack's I believe).

Damp getting traded at the deadline or next offseason, after Gortat has established himself, I can see.

Damp getting dealt this offseason seems very unlikely to me, UNLESS they have a decent idea that the team receiving him is going to buy him out so that he can come back. Which certainly is a possibility.

mavs777 · 07-02-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand the people assuming Damp gets dealt now. You really think they're ready to commit 100% to playing Gortat 30+ minutes a night?

I don't think it's out of the question that they deal him, but it's significantly less than 50/50, I think.

You need two centers, imo.

Yes

As for Damp getting dealt I can't see it happening before the deadline, you still have 4 possible players (maybe 5 if you are willing to part with Hollins) that could hold trade value, Jet, JHO, Stack, S+T with Bass

StackAttack · 07-02-2009, 09:43 PM

Gortat's a freak athlete of the type that rarely come out of Europe - if nothing else, he's an upgrade over Damp. A Damp/Stack package seems like it could bring in something Pau Gasol-like in this economy, and if nothing else, signing Gortat makes that kind of deal more likely.

jthig32 · 07-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

Gortat's a freak athlete of the type that rarely come out of Europe - if nothing else, he's an upgrade over Damp.

*Beating head against desk*

LonghornDub · 07-02-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

*Beating head against desk*

People have been underrating Damp on this board for 3+ seasons. It's nothing new.

nowhereman · 07-02-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

*Beating head against desk*

2nd

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

*Beating head against desk*

jthig32 was a great man, he lived a great life, he knew a lot of things.
He just couldn't stand to hear IT one more time..

BTW I totally agree with what you said about his value now vs later. You DO need two centers...especially if the ones we would have have decent potential for foul issues.

You can easily live with Damp/Gortat and you use Stack and the other expirings to find a swing and use the LLE on whatever you feel is necessary to fill out the roster.

chumdawg · 07-02-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

*Beating head against desk*

Why do you keep beating this dead horse? What, it's been decided, because *you* decided it?

To say nothing of what the players' relative performances might look like in the future, as opposed to in the past, or how Gortat might look in Dallas as opposed to Orlando...weren't there times when Diop himself was a better player for us than Damp?

jthig32 · 07-02-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Why do you keep beating this dead horse? What, it's been decided, because *you* decided it?

To say nothing of what the players' relative performances might look like in the future, as opposed to in the past, or how Gortat might look in Dallas as opposed to Orlando...weren't there times when Diop himself was a better player for us than Damp?

The notion that Gortat is automatically a hands down better option than Damp is patently absurd. We're talking about a guy who has played in 69 NBA games and has played 24+ minutes in a game SIX TIMES.

Looking into the future I have hopes for Gortat. We need a center to take over for Damp when he leaves. I'm not down on the signing. But the idea that people think so low of Damp that a center that has proven NOTHING in this league is automatically an upgrade boggles my mind.

And are YOU chastising ME for beating a dead horse? Really?

chumdawg · 07-02-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The notion that Gortat is automatically a hands down better option than Damp is patently absurd. We're talking about a guy who has played in 69 NBA games and has played 24+ minutes in a game SIX TIMES.

Looking into the future I have hopes for Gortat. We need a center to take over for Damp when he leaves. I'm not down on the signing. But the idea that people think so low of Damp that a center that has proven NOTHING in this league is automatically an upgrade boggles my mind.

And are YOU chastising ME for beating a dead horse? Really?

The notion that Damp will automatically be a hands-down better option than Gortat next year...may not be absurd, but also can't be proven, and may not even turn out to be the case. But evidently you have already made up your mind about it.

Claiming that Gortat has "proven NOTHING" is the same type of reasoning.

Thespiralgoeson · 07-03-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

weren't there times when Diop himself was a better player for us than Damp?

No.

That being said, while I see where Jthig is coming from, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever throwing Gortat/Hollins out there as our center rotation if it nets us an all-star level swingman. And Jthig, I for one certainly don't see Gortat as any kind of upgrade over Damp. To me, he IS Damp. They're essentially the same player as far as I'm concerned.

jthig32 · 07-03-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No.

That being said, while I see where Jthig is coming from, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever throwing Gortat/Hollins out there as our center rotation if it nets us an all-star level swingman. And Jthig, I for one certainly don't see Gortat as any kind of upgrade over Damp. To me, he IS Damp. They're essentially the same player as far as I'm concerned.

I've already said that I think the Mavs would ship out Damp if the perfect deal comes along. But the idea that Damp is fully expendable if Gortat is signed is false, imo. Trading Damp away would be another risk/reward move as you commit yourself to a completely unproven center (two if you re-sign Hollins). And the fact that Damp's contract improves in trade value the longer you wait further drives home the idea that the Mavs are probably not killing themselves to trade him immediately if Gortat signs.

Chum, I've slept and am done with the argument. But just for clarification, I would have been perfectly fine engaging in a discussion over why Gortat is not currently a better player than Damp. The problem was you kept projecting my opinion into different areas, claiming that I was saying he never would be better and it was a bad move to sign him. I never said any of that. I'm not casting negativity on this move, unless you consider a small dose of caution and realism to be negativity.

Carry on.

grndmstr_c · 07-02-2009, 09:44 PM

Damp + Gortat = Mavs' center rotation next year (at least up until the trade deadline). Whether you feel good about that or are throwing up in your mouth a little, it's easily the most likely scenario.

Underdog · 07-02-2009, 09:47 PM

Love or hate Gortat, I'd rather have him at the 5 than Bass or Dirk!

(see, kids - this is how you make a convincing argument...)

Thespiralgoeson · 07-02-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Damp + Gortat = Mavs' center rotation next year (at least up until the trade deadline). Whether you feel good about that or are throwing up in your mouth a little, it's easily the most likely scenario.

Doesn't matter whether I love it or I'm throwing up in my mouth. The Mavs won't be contenders.

LonghornDub · 07-02-2009, 09:48 PM

I'm fine with that as a center rotation. What I want to see now (with Artest going to LA) is Gortat get added and then another move involving Stack's contract (and possibly something else) to obtain a serviceable 2-guard. Or, hell, even Quis for the LLE would work for me (do we have the LLE this year?).

Underdog · 07-02-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

(do we have the LLE this year?).

yes.

LonghornDub · 07-02-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

yes.

Then I'm sold. Queezy and a 12-pack of Lone Star for the LLE. Get 'er done, Donnie.

Underdog · 07-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Then I'm sold. Queezy and a 12-pack of Lone Star for the LLE. Get 'er done, Donnie.

Kidd/Barea
Marquis/JET
Howard/Wright
Dirk/Singleton
Damp/Gortat

We'd still have the Stack chip too...

That squad can't hang with LA, Boston, Orlando, Cleveland or San Antonio, but it's an upgrade - they'd give teams like Denver, Portland & New Orleans a run for their money...

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd/Barea
Marquis/JET
Howard/Wright
Dirk/Singleton
Damp/Gortat

We'd still have the Stack chip too...

That squad can't hang with LA, Boston, Orlando, Cleveland or San Antonio, but it's an upgrade - they'd give teams like Denver, Portland & New Orleans a run for their money...

see above this post, sir

LonghornDub · 07-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd/Barea
Marquis/JET
Howard/Wright
Dirk/Singleton
Damp/Gortat

We'd still have the Stack chip too...

That squad can't hang with LA, Boston, Orlando, Cleveland or San Antonio, but it's an upgrade - they'd give teams like Denver, Portland & New Orleans a run for their money...

Agreed. It may be the best-case scenario for this year. I'm not sure I see any feasible scenario at this point that would move the Mavs into the LA/Cle/Bos echelon.

fluid.forty.one · 07-02-2009, 09:54 PM

Gortat for the MLE and Quis for the LLE with Stack being moved whenever and Damp moved when jthig said... the front office will gain some points in my book.

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Gortat for the MLE and Quis for the LLE with Stack being moved whenever and Damp moved when jthig said... the front office will gain some points in my book.

I had that gameplan last night and UD and grndmstr_c chastised me for it.

grndmstr_c · 07-02-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I had that gameplan last night and UD and grndmstr_c chastised me for it.

And I will be holding you accountable for Artest signing with the Lakers, btw (unless disaster befalls them, in which I will give you credit for having contributed to the basketball gods turning against them).

BGMaverick9 · 07-02-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And I will be holding you accountable for Artest signing with the Lakers, btw (unless disaster befalls them, in which I will give you credit for having contributed to the basketball gods turning against them).

Cue up T-Mac's "It's on Me" interview with SAS last season.

eyedentifyme · 07-02-2009, 10:25 PM

Stack/Damp/Carroll/Wright/Williams/George for Korver, Boozer, and AK47 could be had. Stackhouse for Anthony Johnson and Mickael Pietrus could be had. Josh Howard/Stack/Ahmad Nivins/Jason Terry/2nd Rd Pk to Atlanta for Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Maurice Evans could be had (yeah, I'm in dreamland).

mavs777 · 07-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

Stack/Damp/Carroll/Wright/Williams/George for Korver, Boozer, and AK47 could be had. Stackhouse for Anthony Johnson and Mickael Pietrus could be had. Josh Howard/Stack/Ahmad Nivins/Jason Terry/2nd Rd Pk to Atlanta for Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Maurice Evans could be had (yeah, I'm in dreamland).

I don't get the love for Boozer, you guys see him play last year? That guy is a cancer

mavs777 · 07-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Butler would be a huge get

nowhereman · 07-02-2009, 10:27 PM

He's got the same bday as MJ

aexchange · 07-02-2009, 10:33 PM

call me underwhelmed with this move. we see artest signing with the lakers and ariza signing with the rockets. artest may not have been achievable, but shouldn't we have at least spent some time with ariza to see if there was any interest there?

we are so desperate at the 2 guard that we are trotting out antoine wright and courting quinton ross, that suddenly a spare who gets almost no playing time gets signed to the full MLE exception? excuse me while i vomit in my mouth.

unless they absolutely have a move for damp in the works, this trade makes zero sense considering the other glaring needs on the roster.

nowhereman · 07-02-2009, 10:41 PM

Well, I think something is to be said for Cleveland, SA, Houston, and Orlando all wanting him. Houston didn't offer him the full MLE, but those are some legit teams interested in him (not to mention Atlanta and Indy).

But yeah, at this point he is barely a rotation player. This absoutely must not be the biggest splash we make this year.

eyedentifyme · 07-02-2009, 10:48 PM

Any chance the Mavs can still try to get Okafor/Diaw, Okafor/Radmanovic, Okafor/Wallace, or Okafor/Felton because an article showed the Bobcats owner is trying to sell the team?

dirno2000 · 07-02-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

Any chance the Mavs can still try to get Okafor/Diaw, Okafor/Radmanovic, Okafor/Wallace, or Okafor/Felton because an article showed the Bobcats owner is trying to sell the team?

Maybe but one of the two potential owners assembled the team and may not be in such a hurry to tear it down.

Underdog · 07-02-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

Any chance the Mavs can still try to get Okafor/Diaw, Okafor/Radmanovic, Okafor/Wallace, or Okafor/Felton because an article showed the Bobcats owner is trying to sell the team?

I'd love to get Okafor/Felton, but we really need a starting shooting guard right now...