GDT: AWAY opener. Mavs at Pacers. 6pm FSSW/NBALP - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bryan_Wilson · 10-26-2016, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Well, they played to their game. They especially didn't try to slow them down closing the game with more bigs. Didn't see any Mejri which could have gotten us some good stops.

I think Powell might match up best with Turner TBH. It's not like turner was posting Powell up and getting so deep he was baby hooking us to death. A lot of it was on dribble penetration where weak side had to help and he was free to get offensive put backs. But Mejri and Bogut can't come out of the paint to guard Turner like Powell can.

Melonhead · 10-26-2016, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Defense lost the game to me, regardless of what happened in overtime. We scored 115 in regulation. Mavs have preached defense all off season, and we scored 115 but allowed them to shoot 50% from the floor. Pretty sure we won't score 115 very often so the defense needs to get much better.

Yep. Surprisingly for all the additions to the roster, mavs are still mavs. Offensively great, defensively inept. Didnt like what I seen from Bogut defensively.

Was great to see Dirk doing Dirk things. I was expecting doom and gloom.
MUST have 1 of 2 Rockets games as a win.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-26-2016, 10:07 PM

1. Matthews is still a black hole on offense. Mavs really needed him to make shots this game. Made a good shot late, but it doesn't excuse the rest of the game.
2. Barnes will be fine. 19/9 is a great start with that great shot that brought it into overtime.
3. Dwill is looking better as an off guard.
4. Seth Curry hustles even if he fouled out.
5. The youth integration is going to be a long term work in progress. Growing pains will be part of the deal. You can't play Deron and Wes 40 minutes each with those pains.

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I think Powell might match up best with Turner TBH. It's not like turner was posting Powell up and getting so deep he was baby hooking us to death. A lot of it was on dribble penetration where weak side had to help and he was free to get offensive put backs. But Mejri and Bogut can't come out of the paint to guard Turner like Powell can.

Agree....this was a Powell type game. There will be plenty of opportunities for our bigger lumbering centers when we meet other teams with similar bigs.
Turner is obviously a budding star in this league and Indy is damn lucky to have him.

EricaLubarsky · 10-26-2016, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Yep. Surprisingly for all the additions to the roster, mavs are still mavs. Offensively great, defensively inept. Didnt like what I seen from Bogut defensively.

Was great to see Dirk doing Dirk things. I was expecting doom and gloom.
MUST have 1 of 2 Rockets games as a win.

I dont want to see Zaza anymore. Cool dude that got along well with Dirk, but he was trash here and he's trashing it up for GSW.

Melonhead · 10-26-2016, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I dont want to see Zaza anymore. Cool dude that got along well with Dirk, but he was trash here and he's trashing it up for GSW.

New signature to be determined...

EricaLubarsky · 10-26-2016, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

New signature to be determined...

:b

Melonhead · 10-26-2016, 10:54 PM

My boys

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I dont want to see Zaza anymore. Cool dude that got along well with Dirk, but he was trash here and he's trashing it up for GSW.

And I don't want to see Parsons and McGee anymore

EricaLubarsky · 10-26-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

And I don't want to see Parsons and McGee anymore

Oh crap. It is showing up for you? Didn't want it anymore but just showed me a broken link.

Screw Parsons' knee

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Oh crap. It is showing up for you? Didn't want it anymore but just showed me a broken link.

Screw Parsons' knee

Yeah, it's showing up but I was just giving you a hard time.

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Oh crap. It is showing up for you? Didn't want it anymore but just showed me a broken link.

Screw Parsons' knee

Ok...that is much better.

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 11:14 PM

Did I hear Buckner really call JJ a little fart in the post game show?
That's what it sounded like to me but he was actually complimenting JJs pesky defense.

spreedom · 10-26-2016, 11:19 PM

I don't really think there's a guy on this roster that can handle guys like Turner, KAT, Anthony Davis, etc. Stretch-five is an interesting and really exciting evolution in the NBA and we just don't really have the personnel to combat it. We need to look at those nights as games where we really need to win the other matchups. I don't get a great feeling from this game, but I don't feel like it was that bad a loss either; Indiana should be right up there around the top 6-8 teams in the league and we aren't there.

Barnes' statline looked pretty good at the end of the game, but I didn't feel like he was much of a contributor tonight to be honest. Yes, that late three was huge and when he was on the court he looked fine, but I dunno... were we appreciably better with him on the floor and not Simba? I think that situation is going to be really interesting to monitor as the season goes along; if Barnes' huge contract wasn't a factor, I think there's a chance Simba would be starting for us by the All Star break.

Deron looked great, though I have a hard time getting excited about games like this when I know 90% of the games this year he won't be nearly as engaged or efficient. We can't count on him to be the 2nd-leading scorer on the team. Ditto with Barea, though I get the feeling he might actually end the season as the #2 scorer for us.

Dirk started pretty slow and his shot looked short for the first quarter or so, but he turned it back on late. I don't think we want him playing 38 minutes more than a handful of times this season, but at the same time we needed him out there tonight to have any chance.

Bogut looked good but obviously wasn't a great matchup against the Pacers... probably would have been the best defensive option for the Mavs against Al Jefferson, though he is really a tertiary type of option for the Pacers at this stage of his career.

Powell, Wes, Curry were all varying degrees of underwhelming though I liked seeing Rick calling plays to get Curry open looks; I'm confident he'll knock those down. I'm a little worried Wes just might not ever get back to 85-90% of the player he was before the injury. He looks like he's in great shape, and he bodied Paul George really well, but his legs looked tired when he was hoisting shots on offense and he didn't make very good decisions tonight. Powell is a high-energy and effort player, but I don't know if he really has a long-term future as a rotation player if he can't block shots OR shoot from midrange-extended.

I'm interested (though apprehensive) to see how we match up with Houston. On paper I think we'd have comparable or superior talent, but I get the feeling they'll threaten to run us out of the gym one of or both nights. That D'Antoni system is no joke.

rimrocker · 10-26-2016, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I don't really think there's a guy on this roster that can handle guys like Turner, KAT, Anthony Davis, etc. Stretch-five is an interesting and really exciting evolution in the NBA and we just don't really have the personnel to combat it. We need to look at those nights as games where we really need to win the other matchups. I don't get a great feeling from this game, but I don't feel like it was that bad a loss either; Indiana should be right up there around the top 6-8 teams in the league and we aren't there.

Barnes' statline looked pretty good at the end of the game, but I didn't feel like he was much of a contributor tonight to be honest. Yes, that late three was huge and when he was on the court he looked fine, but I dunno... were we appreciably better with him on the floor and not Simba? I think that situation is going to be really interesting to monitor as the season goes along; if Barnes' huge contract wasn't a factor, I think there's a chance Simba would be starting for us by the All Star break.

Deron looked great, though I have a hard time getting excited about games like this when I know 90% of the games this year he won't be nearly as engaged or efficient. We can't count on him to be the 2nd-leading scorer on the team. Ditto with Barea, though I get the feeling he might actually end the season as the #2 scorer for us.

Dirk started pretty slow and his shot looked short for the first quarter or so, but he turned it back on late. I don't think we want him playing 38 minutes more than a handful of times this season, but at the same time we needed him out there tonight to have any chance.

Bogut looked good but obviously wasn't a great matchup against the Pacers... probably would have been the best defensive option for the Mavs against Al Jefferson, though he is really a tertiary type of option for the Pacers at this stage of his career.

Powell, Wes, Curry were all varying degrees of underwhelming though I liked seeing Rick calling plays to get Curry open looks; I'm confident he'll knock those down. I'm a little worried Wes just might not ever get back to 85-90% of the player he was before the injury. He looks like he's in great shape, and he bodied Paul George really well, but his legs looked tired when he was hoisting shots on offense and he didn't make very good decisions tonight. Powell is a high-energy and effort player, but I don't know if he really has a long-term future as a rotation player if he can't block shots OR shoot from midrange-extended.

I'm interested (though apprehensive) to see how we match up with Houston. On paper I think we'd have comparable or superior talent, but I get the feeling they'll threaten to run us out of the gym one of or both nights. That D'Antoni system is no joke.

Agree with most of what you say.
I think Rick will eventually be forced to inject some youth and/or energy into the starting lineup in the form of Anderson or Barea. This starting lineup looks very lethargic out of the gates and these large early deficits are going to take its toll in more ways than one as the season progresses.

I have the same concerns about Powell and Wes. I've always wondered why we gave Powell that contract when he never has been a great fit for Rick's system. He should get a good opportunity though this season. Wes seems like a guy that could go to the bench and benefit from it.

I do tend to disagree a bit about Curry and Barnes though. I don't think Barnes will ever live up to his contract but I do think he will eventually find his niche on this team. He is talented and a decent 3pt shooter and still under 25 so I think a lot can be salvaged. I saw some signs that Curry could become a solid spark off the bench. Like Barnes he will need to find his comfort zone on this team and I still think Curry has the tools to become our next JET. I also think Barnes can fill a similar role as Matrix did on this team.

spreedom · 10-26-2016, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Agree with most of what you say.
I think Rick will eventually be forced to inject some youth and/or energy into the starting lineup in the form of Anderson or Barea. This starting lineup looks very lethargic out of the gates and these large early deficits are going to take its toll in more ways than one as the season progresses.

I have the same concerns about Powell and Wes. I've always wondered why we gave Powell that contract when he never has been a great fit for Rick's system. He should get a good opportunity though this season. Wes seems like a guy that could go to the bench and benefit from it.

I do tend to disagree a bit about Curry and Barnes though. I don't think Barnes will ever live up to his contract but I do think he will eventually find his niche on this team. He is talented and a decent 3pt shooter and still under 25 so I think a lot can be salvaged. I saw some signs that Curry could become a solid spark off the bench. Like Barnes he will need to find his comfort zone on this team and I still think Curry has the tools to become our next JET. I also think Barnes can fill a similar role as Matrix did on this team.

Oh yeah. Tonight I don't think either guy was super impressive this evening, but they're both still young and I have no doubt Rick will squeeze blood from a stone to get them to fill as big a role as possible here.

I also saw on twitter, and tend to agree that it's a possibility that Barea/Simba might actually be better than the guys they're playing behind right now, though if anything I'd think Wes would be the first guy in line for a possible demotion in favor of one of them.

All said, one game, and a game that we could have won. No reason to panic yet.

Bryan_Wilson · 10-26-2016, 11:59 PM

Honestly I thought Simba and Barnes both looked better than Wes. If Simba were to overtake a spot I think I'd rather it be Wes at this point. Especially if the first sub is going to be Dirk for JJ like it was tonight. Because I'd rather see Barnes and Simba at the 3/4 than Wes/Barnes. Wes looks like he can still body up guys like PG13 and as long as he can keep his man in front of him he's very good defensively so it wasn't so bad tonight having Wes on PG13. All of our guards tonight had a hard time keeping players in front of them though. Teague and Monta are both hard assignments when they are attacking though so it's hard to overreact too much to that but they have to find a way to keep them out of the paint.

Also the point where I really became concerned about Wes long term was on that breakaway steal. He had a clear lane to the rim and guys chasing him down, if he goes up strong hes going to get the and1 more than likely with a dunk because he had that much separation. Yet he lamely threw a weak layup attempt. He never had much in the vertical department but that's really concerning if he can't dunk on a breakaway. He is really good about poking the ball loose from behind when his man beats him off the dribble, so he's able to still find a few ways to be a good defender but he was part of the problem tonight keeping guys out of the paint. All of the guards were.

final note... I still say when we score 115 we need to win, so I'm not upset with the offense, but we can't shoot 48 3's a game. We keep hearing how Wes can post guys up, well he had Monta on him tonight. If there was a time to post him up and get him some easier looks tonight would have been it. Maybe he gets a few to drop and then doesn't go 2-10 from 3 and 3/16 overall. It's all hindsight but they had Teague and Ellis and I saw a post up or 2 from Barnes(on a switch) and Dwill and that's about it.

Budapest Maverick · 10-27-2016, 03:54 AM

With this roster, you'll always compromising for something. Carlisle is an excellent coach, but no matter what lineup he puts out there, there will always be a glaring hole. That's what you get when you have arguably the fewest two-players in the NBA. They still battled and the offense looked really good, so I guess there are positives, but our November schedule is brutal, and they need to play better defense than that. We have the personel, even with Dirk in the lineup. When it's Dirk and Barea out there, it starts to get really problematic. But of course Jose will play until Rick is the coach.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-27-2016, 08:31 AM

I figured the defense would get off to a slow start while the starters get used to playing with each other.

I really hope this isn't another season where we have to give Wes grief for his offense, but he NEEDS to realize his strength is defense.

Anyway, it's tough to win on the road at a team's home opener. It definitely will be interesting to see how they play Houston. If they try to outscore them, then it will be a loss for sure. Gotta play defense.

MavzMan · 10-27-2016, 09:12 AM

Dirk's minutes were just way too high tonight where Barnes should have had more. I kind of expect a lineup of Barnes/Simba/Wes with JJB being a creator more.

Barnes ended up shooting 57% from field and 50% from three. That's encouraging, however I never really noticed him on defense. No steals and no blocks. I hope that improves.

Seth was impressive for his debut. I'm wondering if he could morph into our future JJB coming off the bench as he seems to have a natural feel for the game.

I know it's first game, but Dirk is starting to show his age. Defenses are allowed to hang on him (nothing new) but it seem to be affecting him more now. Plus his own lack of defense is magnified with more mobile 4/5 players. If the new guys can find an offensive rhythm, it might be time to move Dirk to coming off the bench but still get his ~28-30 mpg ... a la Ginobili type? I know it's crazy, but still something to consider as the season progresses since we are obviously in a "youth movement".

Melonhead · 10-27-2016, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Dirk's minutes were just way too high tonight where Barnes should have had more. I kind of expect a lineup of Barnes/Simba/Wes with JJB being a creator more.

Barnes ended up shooting 57% from field and 50% from three. That's encouraging, however I never really noticed him on defense. No steals and no blocks. I hope that improves.

Seth was impressive for his debut. I'm wondering if he could morph into our future JJB coming off the bench as he seems to have a natural feel for the game.

I know it's first game, but Dirk is starting to show his age. Defenses are allowed to hang on him (nothing new) but it seem to be affecting him more now. Plus his own lack of defense is magnified with more mobile 4/5 players. If the new guys can find an offensive rhythm, it might be time to move Dirk to coming off the bench but still get his ~28-30 mpg ... a la Ginobili type? I know it's crazy, but still something to consider as the season progresses since we are obviously in a "youth movement".

Not this again...

turin · 10-27-2016, 09:54 AM

I know it's only one game, but my 2 biggest concerns moving forward are:

1. Wes is an offensive black hole. His shooting is terrible - shot as well as selection. He couldn't even make layups. He air-balled a 3 AND a layup! Having said that, I am encouraged by his energy and effort. It was noticeably improved last night imo. I think that can be attributed to being more than a year + since his knee surgery. I'm still hopeful that his shot will come around. It can't be THAT bad ALL SEASON, can it? He was horrible.

2. Carlisle playing undersized Powell with Dirk and Dirk ending up playing 5. This becomes a layup drill for the opposing team. Yeah, I get that Bogut and Mejri are not going to be to keep up with Turner, but what about ZONE defense?! SMH Carlisle did this almost ad nauseum last year, and only went away from it due to injuries and a late season winning streak that coincided with Mejri making a huge defensive impact as a shot blocker.

EricaLubarsky · 10-27-2016, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I know it's only one game, but my 2 biggest concerns moving forward are:

1. Wes is an offensive black hole. His shooting is terrible - shot as well as selection. He couldn't even make layups. He air-balled a 3 AND a layup! Having said that, I am encouraged by his energy and effort. It was noticeably improved last night imo. I think that can be attributed to being more than a year + since his knee surgery. I'm still hopeful that his shot will come around. It can't be THAT bad ALL SEASON, can it? He was horrible.

2. Carlisle playing undersized Powell with Dirk and Dirk ending up playing 5. This becomes a layup drill for the opposing team. Yeah, I get that Bogut and Mejri are not going to be to keep up with Turner, but what about ZONE defense?! SMH Carlisle did this almost ad nauseum last year, and only went away from it due to injuries and a late season winning streak that coincided with Mejri making a huge defensive impact as a shot blocker.

1) Wes is fine. The offense is not.

2) Dirk is 7'0" and Powell is 6'11". How is that "undersized"? Zone is also WORSE for rebounding, which we were also struggling with.

rimrocker · 10-27-2016, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I kind of expect a lineup of Barnes/Simba/Wes with JJB being a creator more.

I like the idea of JJ and Anderson for Dirk and Wes for the first substitution. Bogut/Barnes/Anderson/DWill/Barea could become pretty solid and gives us a good blend of defense, athleticism, and offense.
I love Dirk and like Wes but in a lineup with Bogut and DWill we are simply too slow.

But I want no part of Dirk coming off the bench.

turin · 10-27-2016, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

1) Wes is fine. The offense is not.

Really? You must see something completely different then when Wes shoots the ball. Air balls and bricks are a concern, and his shot selection is not a problem with the offense. Yes, he did have one shot that he had to force up due to the shot clock, but that's the only one I remember.

2) Dirk is 7'0" and Powell is 6'11". How is that "undersized"? Zone is also WORSE for rebounding, which we were also struggling with.

1. Wes throwing up bricks and air balls is not a problem with offense. He's still doing his step back brick-shot that he loved so much last year. Shot selection? With the exception of 1 end of clock shot that I recall, he had several that were taken with plenty of time left that were just poor choices. This is not a problem with the offense. Selection and shot are solely the responsibility of the player, unless of course, the shot clock dictates that a shot be taken.

2. Really? Did you ever see Jefferson back down Powell? It looked like a man playing against a boy. Height is not everything when it comes to defense and rebounding. If so, then Manut Bol would've been one of the greatest rebounders in the history of the NBA. Why do you think that the Mavs playing a zone is bad for rebounding? Turner heads to the 3 point line and the bigs stay in the paint. How exactly is this worse? Long rebounds from missed 3's? That I might grant, but then again, aren't those preferred attempts compared to layups, especially if contested.

Underdog · 10-27-2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

But I want no part of Dirk coming off the bench.

Yeah, you can't even discuss Dirk coming off the bench until there's at least one or two better scorers than him on the roster... We were getting close with Ellis and Parsons, but we've taken a huge step backwards in the scoring department this year.

EricaLubarsky · 10-27-2016, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

1. Wes throwing up bricks and air balls is not a problem with offense. He's still doing his step back brick-shot that he loved so much last year. Shot selection? With the exception of 1 end of clock shot that I recall, he had several that were taken with plenty of time left that were just poor choices. This is not a problem with the offense. Selection and shot are solely the responsibility of the player, unless of course, the shot clock dictates that a shot be taken.

2. Really? Did you ever see Jefferson back down Powell? It looked like a man playing against a boy. Height is not everything when it comes to defense and rebounding. If so, then Manut Bol would've been one of the greatest rebounders in the history of the NBA. Why do you think that the Mavs playing a zone is bad for rebounding? Turner heads to the 3 point line and the bigs stay in the paint. How exactly is this worse? Long rebounds from missed 3's? That I might grant, but then again, aren't those preferred attempts compared to layups, especially if contested.

1) Missing good shots doesn't make him a "black hole". A black hole refers to a player who kills the offensive flow of the team. Matthews was fine at that. He just missed some shots. I like all the experimenting Rick was doing with him-- more cuts and posts than last year. He'll start making more.

2) Mobility and weak side was more of an issue than raw strength. They basically killed us by having a quick guard drawing the center all game. Bogut and Mejri couldn't have overcome that. You either choose to stay with the center and get killed by the guard or you rotate and they kill us on spacing.

spreedom · 10-27-2016, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

1) Wes is fine. The offense is not.

2) Dirk is 7'0" and Powell is 6'11". How is that "undersized"? Zone is also WORSE for rebounding, which we were also struggling with.

I think he made pretty fair points there. Wes was probably the least productive rotation player on the team yesterday. Bogut didn't play much mostly due to matchups, but every time I looked up it seemed like Wes was missing shots that are usually pretty good looks for him. He was bad enough yesterday that I've officially started worrying that he'll never get close to where he was with Portland. One game isn't enough of a sample size to draw any real conclusions (I'm looking more at what we've got after game 20-25), but Wes was probably the worst starter on the team yesterday.

And calling Powell/Dirk "undersized" is fair... neither guy really protected the rim well when they played together, and neither is a particularly strong rebounder for his size/position. It was more apparent than usual last night because we have nobody on this roster that matches up remotely well to Myles Turner.

Edit: According to Indy Cornrows (a great Pacers blog), 54 out of the Mavs' 104 FGAs were considered "uncontested", meaning there wasn't a defender within 4 feet of the shooter. I'd guess at least 6 of Wes' 3pt FGAs were of this nature. JFWIW

rimrocker · 10-27-2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, you can't even discuss Dirk coming off the bench until there's at least one or two better scorers than him on the roster... We were getting close with Ellis and Parsons, but we've taken a huge step backwards in the scoring department this year.

That will be a challenge for Rick this year. He'll have to shuffle the roster to find the guy who can take as much or more of the scoring load as Dirk but I personally don't think one exists on this roster and Dirk will continue to be our catalyst. Even if they make a trade to acquire that player it will probably be too late and I don't think we even have the trade assets to bring in anyone that would bring as much or more offense than Dirk.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-27-2016, 01:50 PM

Barnes highlights...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfRlj5-Bi64

You can tell how extremely versatile he is. And it's hard to fault a guy for playing well when it matters, although I agree he was largely invisible the first 3 quarters or so.

Still, you can see the confidence grow as that game went on. It's oceans apart from his preseason.

DirkFTW · 10-27-2016, 04:02 PM

Nope, still too soon...

EricaLubarsky · 10-27-2016, 08:19 PM

Don't know why people are upset about game 1 taking a good team to OT on the road. Home team in opener wins 58% of the time. I think we fought well and we knew the first 41 games were going to be rough.

Now, gelling/learning to play together or not, if we drop out home opener to Houston, I will be pissed. F Houston.

Melonhead · 10-27-2016, 10:21 PM

Not upset, but there are concerns. The effort was there. And I know in the moment of games Ill get pissed, but this team is a definitive work in progress.

j0Shi · 10-28-2016, 05:07 AM

My main takeaway: Our offense didn't look in sync at times, yet we scored 115 in regulation. Kinda shows the offensive potential. Defense and whether one or two of our young guys can make the next step and consistently produce on a nightly bases will decide how far this team can go. 14 points from Powell/Curry/Anderson aren't enough.

FromDownTown! · 10-28-2016, 10:18 AM

To think this team would click on all cylinders the first game of the year is a stretch. The comment above about taking a good team to overtime on the 1st game of the year...on their home court should give us hope. Seeing the guys claw their way back from a double digit deficit was a little exciting.