Martin fined for flgrnt foul on Dirk in game 1

[Thnikkaman]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

In the 3rd quarter Martin blocked Dirk's shot and when they got back to the other end of the floor he said something to Dirk and they shared a laugh. I think the push upset Dirk's fans more than it did Dirk.

And that's the thing, why are his teammates going to rush to defend him when he doesn't react himself? There's no doubt in my mind that if Dirk popped back up and got in Kenyon's face the other four players on the floor would have been right behind him. This isn't hockey where you have a designated goon (I don't follow hockey closely so someone correct me if that's not the case anymore). You have to stand up for yourself first and your teammates will follow.

There are intelligent Mavs fans.

And as far as I know, there aren't so much as goons as there are enforcers in Hockey. An enforcer is a goon that can actually handle the puck and score.

I do miss the antics of Ty Domi though.

[purplefrog]

[ty]

Originally Posted by Thnikkaman

Because you keep responding to me.

That's pretty lame. Nobody really cares that you want to carry an "intellectual" conversation here.

You haven't been very respectful to anybody on this board. You've only been downplaying any type of venting coming from my fellow Mavs fans.

You claim you're here to talk trash, which is the fun part of the playoffs, but nobody wants that from you either.

Talking trash with your hypothetical friends in real life (that are Dallas fans) might make sense, but nobody here is your friend. We're not "tight" with you. We don't like your "trash talking." We don't care.

Frankly, you're just being a d*ck. So please, do as you say and bring something valuable to this board or just leave.

[darkwitzki]

Martin is a thug..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC-pzv34c50

[Dnowit41]

"Nuggets coach George Karl has come to the defense of forward Kenyon Martin, who was fined $25,000 and had a foul changed to a flagrant after he threw Dirk Nowitzki to the floor.

Karl disagrees with the fine, calling it "way out of line and crazy."

Martin was called for a technical foul after knocking Nowitzki to the ground along the baseline in the first quarter of Denver's win over Dallas on Sunday."

Ummm.........How is that NOT a flagrant?

[Dnowit41]

Originally Posted by ty

That's pretty lame. Nobody really cares that you want to carry an "intellectual" conversation here.

You haven't been very respectful to anybody on this board. You've only been downplaying any type of venting coming from my fellow Mavs fans.

You claim you're here to talk trash, which is the fun part of the playoffs, but nobody wants that from you either.

Talking trash with your hypothetical friends in real life (that are Dallas fans) might make sense, but nobody here is your friend. We're not "tight" with you. We don't like your "trash talking." We don't care.

Frankly, you're just being a d*ck. So please, do as you say and bring something valuable to this board or just leave.

Well said Ty

[erdubya]

To be honest, I don't remember seeing Martin's foul... maybe the game vanished from my memory in a blur...

I do remember how pissed I got at the refs for not calling JR Smith's (flagrant?) foul on Dirk in the 1st qtr. JR flung his arm roundhouse style toward Dirk's face and connecting right across his nose while Dirk went up for a shot. Refs called nothing.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by GoNugs

In the end...the cool thing about blaming everything on officiating...is that when your team loses, you can still feel your team played the better game and avoid looking at the actual play of the two teams.

The Nuggets are going to play Dirk physical...that is no shock to anyone. In the past, Dirk has struggled with that kind of in your face defensive play. Any contact does not equal a foul.

Mavericks sucked it up. They didn't deserve to win that game. I'm not blaming the refs on the outcome of the game.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the refs were just atrocious. And that doesn't change the fact that Dirk was raped often without any calls against Denver.

That better change when tipoff happens in 10 minutes. Not make-up calls, we don't need that crap. Just the right calls.

[Big Shot Rob]

Mr. Nuggets fan:

No sir.

I am not an uneducated hick. I think I know a few things about basketball, basketball fans, and jerks.

You sir, are an effing jerk.

First--you invaded this message board for one sole reason: to be a constant nuisance. You do so to pour salt in to wounds. You came here to take cheap shots.

And when one Spurs fan says one thing in support of the Mavs and defends the great state of Texas, you get your panties in an uproar.

My point is very simple--when refs turn their back while a mugging is occurring on the court, it is bad for several reasons.

First, it is totally inimical to elementary notions of fair play and sportsmanship. This is probably a concept that is foreign to people in Denver. But here in Texas, we still take pride when a team is filled with winners both on and off the court. Character is defined by how an individual achieves his goals. Mugging an opponent because some incompetent ref allows such activity is not something to be proud of by any means.

Moreover, allowing such dirty tactics can only foster bad blood between teams which can manifest itself at any time in the ugliest fashion. A shove here and there, a push here and there--then an elbow--then a fist...you get the picture. At least I hope you do.

And yes, I do think the Spurs are a classy group of individuals. Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for your respect even while recounting the fashion they dismantled your team twice in the past few years during the NBA playoffs.

In Texas, we call a spade a spade. Lets lay our cards on the table.

When the NBA front office can tell a flagrant foul even while it occurred in front of an alleged professional NBA ref--who does nothing--that is disturbing.

Also disturbing are juvenile Nugget fans who get such vicarious thrills by his sports team that he mimics their antics by trolling of the opponents message board for the sole purpose of being an ass.

And believe me sir.

You are an ass.

By the way--Texans love their state. Don't mess with us.

And don't mess with Texas.

GO MAVS!!!!!!!!!

[purplefrog]

O' what a tangled web we (NBA front office) weave.
Sheridan implies that suspension is warranted if there are clear signs of premeditation (Fisher/Scola incident). Does anyone really believe KMart's hit on Dirk was anything but premediated? Rondo on Brad Miller? Gimme a break. If the FO suspends Fisher then they continue to be consistently inconsistent.
________________________________
League also looking at Celtics-Magic
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By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
Archive

Will Kobe Bryant be suspended for elbow?

NEW YORK -- In NBA shorthand, it is known as the elbow rule: Strike an opposing player above the shoulders with an elbow foul, and it's an automatic ejection.

It was the rule invoked to suspend Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard in Game 6 of the first round -- a rule that the NBA has to debate whether to apply Thursday on another busy day in the office of NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson.

Several physical plays from Wednesday night's playoff games were under review, and one of the biggest questions was: Where exactly did Kobe Bryant's elbow make contact with Ron Artest?

And the natural follow-up: Should Bryant be punished -- even suspended -- for his actions on the play that led to Artest's ejection in one of several dustups during Game 2 of the Lakers-Rockets series?

Jackson also was reviewing whether Lakers guard Derek Fisher merited an additional penalty -- likely a one-game suspension -- for his flagrant-2 foul against Houston's Luis Scola. He also has to review Magic guard Rafer Alston's slap to the back of Eddie House's head in the second half of Boston's victory over Orlando in their Eastern Conference semifinal series.

"The plays are under review," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

The interaction between Ron Artest and Kobe Bryant is under NBA review.
Jackson attended the Rockets-Lakers game, then took a red-eye flight back to New York and headed to the league's Fifth Avenue office tower to review the plays in question.

On the Bryant-Artest play, the two were battling for rebounding position when Bryant struck Artest with his elbow. Artest immediately began gesturing and arguing that he had been elbowed in the neck, but replays appeared to show Bryant's elbow striking Artest on his upper chest, just above the "R" on Artest's Rockets jersey.

Rule 12, Part A, Section 5-Q of the official NBA rulebook cites: "Elbow fouls which make contact above shoulder level, and punching fouls, although recorded as both personal and team fouls, are unsportsmanlike acts. The player will be ejected immediately."

On the Fisher foul, the replays appeared to show clear premeditation -- which usually is enough for the league to tack on an accompanying one-game suspension. But replays also showed the actual foul against Scola happened when Fisher lowered his shoulder and knocked Scola over, with Fisher only swinging his elbow on the follow-through.

In the Magic-Celtics game, Alston smacked House in the back of the head with an open hand after he said House elbowed him in the stomach after hitting a 3-point shot.

And while Alston's smack clearly did not fall under the rule that calls for an automatic suspension for throwing a punch, Jackson still has to decide whether it was an egregious enough act in and of itself to warrant a suspension for Friday night's Game 3 in Orlando.

Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

[GoNugs]

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

Mr. Nuggets fan:

No sir.

I am not an uneducated hick. I think I know a few things about basketball, basketball fans, and jerks.

You sir, are an effing jerk.

First--you invaded this message board for one sole reason: to be a constant nuisance. You do so to pour salt in to wounds. You came here to take cheap shots.

And when one Spurs fan says one thing in support of the Mavs and defends the great state of Texas, you get your panties in an uproar.

My point is very simple--when refs turn their back while a mugging is occurring on the court, it is bad for several reasons.

First, it is totally inimical to elementary notions of fair play and sportsmanship. This is probably a concept that is foreign to people in Denver. But here in Texas, we still take pride when a team is filled with winners both on and off the court. Character is defined by how an individual achieves his goals. Mugging an opponent because some incompetent ref allows such activity is not something to be proud of by any means.

Moreover, allowing such dirty tactics can only foster bad blood between teams which can manifest itself at any time in the ugliest fashion. A shove here and there, a push here and there--then an elbow--then a fist...you get the picture. At least I hope you do.

And yes, I do think the Spurs are a classy group of individuals. Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for your respect even while recounting the fashion they dismantled your team twice in the past few years during the NBA playoffs.

In Texas, we call a spade a spade. Lets lay our cards on the table.

When the NBA front office can tell a flagrant foul even while it occurred in front of an alleged professional NBA ref--who does nothing--that is disturbing.

Also disturbing are juvenile Nugget fans who get such vicarious thrills by his sports team that he mimics their antics by trolling of the opponents message board for the sole purpose of being an ass.

And believe me sir.

You are an ass.

By the way--Texans love their state. Don't mess with us.

And don't mess with Texas.

GO MAVS!!!!!!!!!

Wait a minute here...your a Spurs fan talking about teams winning with class...not to mention...your monicker is Big Shot.....er I mean Cheap Shot Rob. I believe everyone can remember the Nash incident. Moreover....you cheer for a team with Ginobli on it...is a whiney, diving pissant. So I think for starters....as a Spurs fan....you have a tough time talking about fair play and sportsmanship with a straight face. After that, the rest of your points are lost on that one massive fallacy alone.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

The Spurs don't act like thugs.

[Big Shot Rob]

Nug fan--

Man--this is a mismatch. Are you in junior high?

First--the Horry hip check on Nash was a cheap shot and he deserved to be suspended--and he was.

Second--you can bitch about Manu all you want.

The fact is that George Karl and the Nug owner would have given their left and right nug, er, nut, to obtain his services. I guess you conveniently overlook that simple, undisputed fact.

Fans for both Dallas and San Antonio are fortunate because their teams win without the thuggery--without the gang flashing antics--by such athletes as Martin and Melo.

In essence--this is a fundamental fact: if you had a son, would you want him to be more like Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu, Dirk, Jason Terry? Or Melo and his gang signs, Martin and his mugging...you get the picture.

I guess the question I have for you: why the hell are you here?

Does gloating give you some kind of thrill going up your leg?

Does being a nuisance provide an outlet--like maybe your geography teacher calls you a nuisance in class so you are here to prove him right? Maybe it is the way to live your fantasy--one you can't do with your geography teacher because he already rebuffed your sick advances?

[GoNugs]

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

Nug fan--

Man--this is a mismatch. Are you in junior high?

First--the Horry hip check on Nash was a cheap shot and he deserved to be suspended--and he was.

Second--you can bitch about Manu all you want.

The fact is that George Karl and the Nug owner would have given their left and right nug, er, nut, to obtain his services. I guess you conveniently overlook that simple, undisputed fact.

Fans for both Dallas and San Antonio are fortunate because their teams win without the thuggery--without the gang flashing antics--by such athletes as Martin and Melo.

In essence--this is a fundamental fact: if you had a son, would you want him to be more like Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu, Dirk, Jason Terry? Or Melo and his gang signs, Martin and his mugging...you get the picture.

I guess the question I have for you: why the hell are you here?

Does gloating give you some kind of thrill going up your leg?

Does being a nuisance provide an outlet--like maybe your geography teacher calls you a nuisance in class so you are here to prove him right? Maybe it is the way to live your fantasy--one you can't do with your geography teacher because he already rebuffed your sick advances?

I'd want my son to be more like Chauncy....then any of your guys listed....and if you respect Manu and his flopping antics...then thats on you. The Spurs won the series because of that cheapshot. You must be proud.

I'm here because I enjoy seeing what other teams fans are saying....and...I came here at the start of the series....not after the Nuggets won the first two games.

I took exception to the hyperbole that is going on about what kind of citizens you think the Nuggets are. But you cary on and believe what you. want. It's been a fun series so far....I'm sure you'd agree.

[stoble]

Originally Posted by GoNugs

I'd want my son to be more like Chauncy....then any of your guys listed....

As much as I root against the Spurs, you are WAY off on this topic. The Spurs group is much more respectable than the Nugs group. I can't believe you are even arguing this.

Even your most respectable player (Billups) falls FAR short in the respect department when compared to someone like Duncan.

and if you insist on continuing:
Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Finley, Oberto >>>>> Martin, Smith, Nene, Melo, Birdman

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Terry punched Finley in the nuts. It may look like I'm on the wrong side of the argument but I'm tired of the soft image of the Mavs. JET needs to punch the entire Nuggets roster in the same place.

[Big Shot Rob]

Originally Posted by GoNugs

I'd want my son to be more like Chauncy....then any of your guys listed....and if you respect Manu and his flopping antics...then thats on you. The Spurs won the series because of that cheapshot. You must be proud.

I'm here because I enjoy seeing what other teams fans are saying....and...I came here at the start of the series....not after the Nuggets won the first two games.

I took exception to the hyperbole that is going on about what kind of citizens you think the Nuggets are. But you cary on and believe what you. want. It's been a fun series so far....I'm sure you'd agree.

If you want to argue Spurs v. Suns a few years ago--fine.

I just think it is laughable that you come to a Mavs board seeking respect for the group of thugs that you support.

This is a great message board. I post here even as a Spurs fan because over the years, I have been treated so well. This group of people are like family to me and I get riled up when I see people like you who come with with condescending attitudes after their team goes up 2-0.

The Nuggats held serve. Fine. They did what they are supposed to do at this point in a seven game series. Nothing has been proved except for the fact that the Nugs are more like Thugs.

Look my friend (in the words of John McCain), you are barking up the wrong tree here. This is a battle. Coming here and provoking people the way that you do is not only out of bounds--it is childish and disrespectful. These folks didn't do a damn thing to you.

They support their team with fervor that is lacking in most cities--and that includes San Antonio, where the fans are so damn spoiled ROTTEN that they fail to sell out the A&T Center for playoff games. They practically have to give away the tickets on game day.

Contrast this with the folks in Dallas--where their fans are excited and fill the arena.

These are great fans

And you are disrespecting them.

And I don't mind telling you--it ticks me off to see runts like you come in here and pull the crap that you do.

Yes--I am a Spurs fan.

Yes--these Mav fans are my friends and I will gladly stick up for them!

[Murphy3]

The Kenyon Martin foul was obviously Flagrant. But, I really, really don't have a huge problem with it. There appeared to be no intent to injure. Yeah, he was trying to send a message. Obviously, Dirk decided to go on his way to score 28 that game and 35 the next. So, I suppose the message was received. And yeah, I suppose it didn't have a huge impact on Dirk.

[GoNugs]

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

If you want to argue Spurs v. Suns a few years ago--fine.

I just think it is laughable that you come to a Mavs board seeking respect for the group of thugs that you support.

This is a great message board. I post here even as a Spurs fan because over the years, I have been treated so well. This group of people are like family to me and I get riled up when I see people like you who come with with condescending attitudes after their team goes up 2-0.

The Nuggats held serve. Fine. They did what they are supposed to do at this point in a seven game series. Nothing has been proved except for the fact that the Nugs are more like Thugs.

Look my friend (in the words of John McCain), you are barking up the wrong tree here. This is a battle. Coming here and provoking people the way that you do is not only out of bounds--it is childish and disrespectful. These folks didn't do a damn thing to you.

They support their team with fervor that is lacking in most cities--and that includes San Antonio, where the fans are so damn spoiled ROTTEN that they fail to sell out the A&T Center for playoff games. They practically have to give away the tickets on game day.

Contrast this with the folks in Dallas--where their fans are excited and fill the arena.

These are great fans

And you are disrespecting them.

And I don't mind telling you--it ticks me off to see runts like you come in here and pull the crap that you do.

Yes--I am a Spurs fan.

Yes--these Mav fans are my friends and I will gladly stick up for them!

I am disrespecing them by calling them on the Hyperbole on the Nuggets character?

For the record...since obviously this is lost on many...Chauncy Billups grew up on Denver...played basketball at the University of Colorado...has a youth center...that he's had since the day he left college...which he supports. He is actively involved in the Denver community and has been since the day he was a small boy. He's made his home in Colorado...reguardless of where he plays...so forgive me for taking offense with the Hyperbole about how the Nuggets are horrendous excuses for human beings. They aren't...reguardless of how you may try or want to spin it.

Jason Kidd was arrested for hitting his wife. That seems to get lost on the "we have great citizens" on our team debate.

One other point...I don't mind battling back and forth about the teams...but I tend to keep the personal insults out of it. You can't say the same as you think that I was abused by my 8th grade math teacher, have no friends or life.

I admit...I am a bit unpolished, straight to the point and call it like I see it. Sometimes I am wrong...sometimes right...sometimes in the middle. Several times I have said I think the Mavs are a very good team....and that the series ought to go 6 to 7 games. I haven't changed off of that. I haven't changed off of my respect for the Mavs...or their fans for that matter. I expect they are excited....so are Nuggets fans....as we all have a right to...are teams are playing in the playoffs. It's a great thing.

Again...the debate on Character....imo...is a bit over the top. The hyperbole is commical....and...here is my only issue....it is untrue.

One other thing I ask...BSR...if possible...keep the talk about the games...and refrain from the assault on my chracter. I know who I am.

[horse900703]

f**k k-mart~ hate him

[Murphy3]

Kidd and Howard aren't exactly poster boys for anything positive when it comes to what they've done off the court...
But, in Kidd's case, his wife probably had it coming.

[Mavdog]

"his wife probably had it coming"???

c'mon murph, I thought you were better than that.

every team has an assortment of personalities and good and bad characters.

the nuggets? billups is one of the better guys in the nba, period. the focus and the discipline he brought to the team is the number 1 reason they accomplished what they have this year. I happen to like his game, and respect him, even tho I am rooting for him to fail in this series.

kenyon martin, jr smith? punks and knuickleheads, they do not deserve any respect and will get none from me. talented basketball players? absolutely. yet that talent is overshadowed by character flaws that cannot and should not be overlooked. anyone who speaks about respect and sportsmanship cannot dismiss these players failures in those areas.

our mavs have players with their own flaws, but none of them have shown the failure of respect for their opponent and lack of sportsmanship that these two have consistently and repreatedly exhibited.

kenyon martin was fortunate, or wily enough perhaps, to have hit dirk in the chest rather than above dirk's shoulder. that is the sole reason martin was not suspended for a game.

martin's actions should not be tolerated, should not be emulated, and should not be spun in any way positive. it is a negative on the game, it detracts from what is positive about what denver has accomplished this season, and those who wish to see similar actions by our mavs against the nuggets are misguided at best.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

"his wife probably had it coming"???

How about, she possibly had it coming?


Although sometimes you just can't avoid having to pop a chic. I haven't done it (in quite a while) but I have seen situations where I wouldn't have hated it. Maybe not knock their teeth out but a good schmakin' or a nice backhand. Slap em upside the back of the forehead.. It's understandable in some cases. no?

[Mavdog]

imo, no.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

"his wife probably had it coming"???

c'mon murph, I thought you were better than that.

every team has an assortment of personalities and good and bad characters.

the nuggets? billups is one of the better guys in the nba, period. the focus and the discipline he brought to the team is the number 1 reason they accomplished what they have this year. I happen to like his game, and respect him, even tho I am rooting for him to fail in this series.

kenyon martin, jr smith? punks and knuickleheads, they do not deserve any respect and will get none from me. talented basketball players? absolutely. yet that talent is overshadowed by character flaws that cannot and should not be overlooked. anyone who speaks about respect and sportsmanship cannot dismiss these players failures in those areas.

our mavs have players with their own flaws, but none of them have shown the failure of respect for their opponent and lack of sportsmanship that these two have consistently and repreatedly exhibited.

kenyon martin was fortunate, or wily enough perhaps, to have hit dirk in the chest rather than above dirk's shoulder. that is the sole reason martin was not suspended for a game.

martin's actions should not be tolerated, should not be emulated, and should not be spun in any way positive. it is a negative on the game, it detracts from what is positive about what denver has accomplished this season, and those who wish to see similar actions by our mavs against the nuggets are misguided at best.

I suppose I should have used a smiley face or somesuch with my Kidd quote. Personally, I've never liked the guy. I have always thought he was a bit overrated on the court and an idiot off the court.

[Underdog]

This thread got hilarious somewhere along the way (kinda like spousal abuse...)

>zing!<

[Big Boy Laroux]

hey, kidd only wanted a french fry, and his wife was preventing him from having one. If that's not grounds for hitting someone, i'm not sure what is...