To Melo or not to Melo

[yahyes]

I'll go out on a reach here. Giving Carmelo Anthony an offer doesn't seem like a bad idea. Let's see what the strong suit is now for the Mavs. Basically much more effective offense. Which meshed well in some balances of defense when Dalembert was at his A game. Thinking about IF melo teamed up with Dirk and Monta sounds even higher in offense.

I say we talk to Carmelo. See what he's looking for. Because thinking about how much slack it takes away from Dirk to be more effective latter down the season, it's an idea to think about. And here's where guys like Carter, Marion, Devin, and Blair would comeback. Try another big run at it. While having a couple spots to draft us a hopeful center. Because I wouldn't mind the idea on trying to move up in the draft by trading all our picks and Wright. Mainly to draft the best center possible.

And who knows. We just might also can get Tyson to reunite with Dirk.

[Kante]

No, thanks.

[dirt_dobber]

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

[LSMF]

Melo is a big time player, but I can't help but think it's a waste of time chasing after him. Why not focus on getting two way players that contribute to this team? Honestly, it'd be nice to have Melo but it seems like another pipe dream to me.

PS- I hate watching Carmelo Anthony catch the ball, Jab-Step about 6,7 times and then launch a brick. What a way to disrupt your team's offense.

[dude1394]

Carmelo Anthony much like Dwight IMO seems to have some real chemistry issues. Players of that caliber who move so much really seems like a huge red flag. Maybe he will mellow out some but I don't know, I just don't see many praising this dude.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Carmelo Anthony much like Dwight IMO seems to have some real chemistry issues. Players of that caliber who move so much really seems like a huge red flag. Maybe he will mellow out some but I don't know, I just don't see many praising this dude.

[Melonhead]

Fools gold as a player. Over time he wears on your franchise.

Even dumber to do another "chase" after a star player. Get better at C and F

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If the Knicks trade us Chandler as well, then I'm in. Ellis/Melo/Dirk/Chandler...I cud rol wit dat.

[yahyes]

Look I know we all have an opinion about him. Even I have one. But don't you trust in Carlisle to handle his personality? Look what he's done for Ellis so far. Even in the past of keeping guys like Stevenson and Terry calm to play their game. Carlisles's underrated trait I think is handling egos in the locker room.

[some1nw]

Addition of Melo would not help this team at all. We need a perimeter defender and a defensive minded center. In Monta I trust. I think he will make a big leap forward next season.

[grndmstr_c]

No great desire to root for Melo, and I seriously doubt he leaves NY, but he's a rare enough talent that it'd be a mistake to pass on an opportunity to make a pitch to him, and if he did opt to sign with Dallas I'm pretty sure the opportunity to play for Rick would be a major reason why, in which case I'd be willing to take my chances that it could work out.

[Sportstudi]

No thanks. We have enough offense, we need defense and Melo doesn't play any defense. Additionally, he's a ballhog.

[Five-ofan]

I think melo would be good here but for the love of god will everyone quit acting like carlisle changed Ellis? Ellis was the same player he's always been, with the exception of last year he just happened to be on a better team and in a better situation so he is just now being properly appreciated.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I think melo would be good here but for the love of god will everyone quit acting like carlisle changed Ellis? Ellis was the same player he's always been, with the exception of last year he just happened to be on a better team and in a better situation so he is just now being properly appreciated.

Well if you look at it. Ellis had a great season in assists compared through his whole career. I do give credit to Carlisle for help adjusting his game more. He's played a lot more differently by working through ball movement more and his defense was actually underrated.

[dude1394]

I don't like melo, but I'd have to take him and hope.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't like melo, but I'd have to take him and hope.

We didn't like Monta either. Just saying.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by yahyes

We didn't like Monta either. Just saying.

Some of us did.

[Five-ofan]

Gmc, you along with Thig and kg are among the people who's basketball opinions I value the highest on this board and I get the feeling that all of you are against the idea of getting melo(although you all agree he's too good not to take) and I don't understand why. I admit that at first glance I was lukewarm about the idea too, but IMO a deeper inspection makes melo look really good. Melo is obviously an offensive monster. He can ISO from anywhere, he's a beast on the block, he's a great catch and shoot guy, he can be either the screener or the ball handler in the pick and roll and most importantly for fit reasons he's an elite rebounding 3.

Obviously other than rebounding, those are all offensive strengths, but that has a round about way I think that can help the d. IMO the biggest reason our defense was awful was bad perimeter d. That starts and ends with the Calderon/Ellis combo. The problem with breaking that duo up, is that it's incredibly difficult to have a good offense with 3 non threats on the floor in the center, the 3 and the presumed Calderon defensive replacement. Starting melo allows us to start a better defensive option at the point(either Harris or if I get my wish, Livingston) without sacrificing offense. Also as I mentioned I think melo has the ability to be at least a slightly above average defender(he could at least equal this years Shawn) that allows us to keep or even improve our elite offense while upgrading the d. I still want the upgrade at center, and I understand that the odds of getting melo are slim, but with Phil all but saying they won't pay him more I think it's at least enough of a possibility to warrant Internet speculation.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Gmc, you along with Thig and kg are among the people who's basketball opinions I value the highest on this board and I get the feeling that all of you are against the idea of getting melo(although you all agree he's too good not to take) and I don't understand why.

To clarify, the only part of me that would be opposed to signing him if he wanted to come here is the part of me that's most grateful for having been able to root for a guy like Dirk for the last decade and a half. I agree with you that Melo's a beast of a player. His stopper tendencies concern me (much more than his defense), but he's also one of only a handful of guys around the league who can dominate a one-on-one matchup against just about any defender you could think to throw at him when he's on his game, and that's incredibly valuable (cf., Dirk in the Mavs' championship run). And like I alluded to above, if he did come to Dallas, it'd be his choice as an unrestricted free agent, and that fact alone would set my mind greatly at ease when it comes to the question of whether he could be expected to buy in to Rick's coaching.

[yahyes]

We have to admit Dirk needs more help offensively. In fact I know Dirk is up for passing the ball to Monta now. Or even Melo(if he signed here) more he'd down for it. Not only could it take slack from our main franchise player. But it could open up a new plan for the Mavs latter down the road. Either we think try to win now while having Dirk in his last stretch of 3-4 years. Or go with Deng, which isn't as efficient offensively. But that's where Marion comes to play in bringing back.

[jthig32]

I feel like I've been pretty outspoken in wanting Melo if he will come here.

I don't love him at a super-max contract, but with Dirk taking so much less you could make it work. Plus if you're signing Melo I think you're now trading a very valuable piece in Monta for pieces that fit better.

But I don't see it happening. Maybe someday a big time fee agent will recognize the value that Carlisle could bring them, but it's hard to see Melo being that guy.

[EricaLubarsky]

I'dike him here just so that all the negative nellies that say that the Mavs never get any good free agents would have to eat crow.

[Underdog]

The question you need to ask yourself is this: does simply adding Melo to last year's team make us a contender? Because he'll eat most, if not all, of our cap space (depending on what Dirk takes).

[Jack.Kerr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NhEFq3USMU

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I feel like I've been pretty outspoken in wanting Melo if he will come here.

I don't love him at a super-max contract, but with Dirk taking so much less you could make it work. Plus if you're signing Melo I think you're now trading a very valuable piece in Monta for pieces that fit better.

But I don't see it happening. Maybe someday a big time fee agent will recognize the value that Carlisle could bring them, but it's hard to see Melo being that guy.

Sign melo, trade Ellis and wright for chandler and a first, start Calderon, Ellington, melo, dirk, chandler. Hopefully resign Vince. Have a bench of Harris, Vince, daly, Larkin and call it a day?

I have no idea of Phil would do that trade, and it's probably an overpay for Tyson but I love that starting lineup(or you could switch devin for Calderon)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Sign melo, trade Ellis and wright for chandler and a first, start Calderon, Ellington, melo, dirk, chandler. Hopefully resign Vince. Have a bench of Harris, Vince, daly, Larkin and call it a day?

I have no idea of Phil would do that trade, and it's probably an overpay for Tyson but I love that starting lineup(or you could switch devin for Calderon)

Not sure I can say this without sounding biased, but I think you start Harris in that scenario. Ellington is a good enough three point shooter to enable it. You'd have three quality shooters in Ellington/Melo/Dirk and three quality defenders in Harris/Ellington/Chandler. Nice balance.

[dirt_dobber]

really liking this thread - lots of good point/counter-point.

-however- I am still of the "say no to mello" campaign. (see post #3)

[dirt_dobber]

***********************************************
****6 Reasons Why Carmelo Anthony May Be Overrated***

by: KATHERINE LAGRAVE
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/sports/6...tml/?a=viewall


New York Knicks star Carmelo Anthony plans to opt out of the last year of his contract and “test the waters” of free agency this summer, with teams like Chicago, Houston, and the Los Angeles Clippers all expected to show interest. While Anthony has said that his top priority is to re-sign with the Knicks, it’s tricky: He’s looking for assurances from Knicks President Phil Jackson that the team is committed to rebuilding, but Jackson also knows it means a significant pay cut for Anthony.

Undoubtedly, Anthony has been a force in the league. He has scored nearly 20,000 points in his career and appeared in the All-Star game seven times. He is the fifth-highest paid player in the league and was the regular season’s second-leading scorer, after Kevin Durant. Some say he’s one of the best players in the league, third only to LeBron James and Durant. But what about numbers?

In a recent Atlantic piece, David Berri makes the case that the National Basketball Association forward isn’t as valuable to the Knicks as their fans – or their front office – think. We break down six reasons this may be true.

1. Effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage.
In the 2013-2014 regular season, Berri writes that an “average NBA player had an effective field goal percentage (a measure that considers the impact of shooting from two-point and three-point range) of 0.501 and a true shooting percentage (a measure that considers the impact of shooting from the free throw line and the field) of 0.541.” Anthony’s stats put him at a 0.503 effective field goal percentage and a 0.561 true shooting percentage, making him only marginally better than the average player at putting the ball through the hoop.

2. Wins produced
“Wins produced” is a model for estimating individual player contribution to winning and is calculated through box score statistics tracked by the NBA. Taking into account two of the league’s contenders for MVP and pitting them against Anthony, we see the disparity: In the regular season, Durant produced 19.4 wins, James produced 17.8 wins, and Anthony produced just 6.9 wins.

This isn’t just a number limited to the 2013-2014 season, either. Berri reports that in the 2012-2013 season, James produced 21.1 wins, Durant produced 19.2 wins, and Anthony only produced 4.1 wins. This is largely the result of Anthony’s effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentages, which linger close to average, while James and Durant’s figures are significantly higher.

3. Comparison
Sure, we can compare Anthony to James and Durant, but what about when we look at his numbers across the league? Across teams? “Six teams had higher true shooting percentages than Anthony last year,” Berri wrote in The Atlantic. “In fact, on the San Antonio Spurs alone, nine of their 12 players with more than 500 minutes on the court this year posted a higher true shooting percentage than Anthony.” Half a dozen teams that collectively score more efficiently than one of the “best” scorers in the league? The results don’t look good for Anthony.

4. Supporting cast
Despite Anthony asking for a stronger supporting cast, a different story emerges when statistics are taken into account. For this, we turn to the number of wins produced by the supporting casts of the Heat, Thunder, and Knicks: “In 2012-13, the wins produced by everyone on the Heat not named LeBron was 41.0. And when we look at the Oklahoma City Thunder, everyone not named Durant produced 46.3 wins. So each of these players had ‘help.’ But perhaps surprisingly, Anthony had even more help. In 2012-13, everyone not named Carmelo on the Knicks produced 48.0 wins,” Berri said.

Admittedly, the Knicks saw some setbacks in the 2013-2014 season — among them, the injury of Tyson Chandler, the loss of Jason Kidd, and the negative production of wins by Andrea Bargnani. Even with all these changes, however, the disparities between teams are not so great: “[E]very player not named Durant on the Thunder produced 38.5 wins, every player not named James on the Heat produced 36.0 wins, and every player not named Anthony on the Knicks produced 32.0 wins,” writes Berri.

5. Age
Someone had to say it. In the NBA, age is more than a number: It’s usually a representative number. Statistics tell us that players age in a “U-shape,” meaning they gradually get better as they reach 25, peak between 25-26, slowly decline around 30, and then rapidly decline around 32. Anthony will turn 30 on May 29. The NBA’s collective bargaining agreement allows the Knicks to offer Anthony a five-year maximum deal of $129.1 million to stay in New York, which would put him at 35 when the contract expires. Worth it? We’ll see.

6. Playoffs
In his 11 seasons in the NBA, Anthony has only advanced out of the first round of the playoffs twice in his career. This year was the first time in the pros that Anthony hasn’t even made it to the playoffs, something Carmelo said has made everything “cloudy” for him and his future. With Jackson acting as an undoubtedly positive addition to the Knicks franchise, it’s evident that the winds of change are brewing at Madison Square Garden. Only time will tell if Anthony will be around as a beneficiary.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not sure I can say this without sounding biased, but I think you start Harris in that scenario. Ellington is a good enough three point shooter to enable it. You'd have three quality shooters in Ellington/Melo/Dirk and three quality defenders in Harris/Ellington/Chandler. Nice balance.

Soooo... You are saying that in this scenario DevinHarriswouldstart?

[sefant77]

I think that Deng for 10-12m and additional 6-8m cap to spend brings the team more than Melo for 18-20 and pretty much no cap anymore.

So sure go ask Melo on july 1st, but hell no wait for him days or let Deng sign somewhere else during you are waiting.

But since Carmello is one of these superstar attention whores he wont make up his mind on july 1st and drag it out a few days to get all the headlines

[conjurer]

Carmelo? HELL NO!

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I think that Deng for 10-12m and additional 6-8m cap to spend brings the team more than Melo for 18-20 and pretty much no cap anymore.

So sure go ask Melo on july 1st, but hell no wait for him days or let Deng sign somewhere else during you are waiting.

But since Carmello is one of these superstar attention whores he wont make up his mind on july 1st and drag it out a few days to get all the headlines

Deng isn't worth anywhere near that.

[EricaLubarsky]

I actually think that Melo and Ellis could be a pretty deadly combo after Dirk retires.

We'd just need a LOT of defensive players around them.

All pointless, though, because Carmello isn't leaving New York for us and if he did, we'd have Ellis, Dirk, Carmello and a bunch of one-dimensional players from last year.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

Soooo... You are saying that in this scenario DevinHarriswouldstart?

Noooo....I'm saying DevinHarriscouldstart thank you very much.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Deng isn't worth anywhere near that.

Career 16ppg scorer, playing B to B+ defense on the opponent's best wing scorer, getting you 5-7 boards per night... yeah, that kind of guy is worth $10-12M on the open market. Whether you want to spend that much to get him is another story, but Deng is getting $30M+ guaranteed this summer... I think that much is almost certain.

If we could pair him with any of the Sanders/Hibbert/Chandler/Okafor types of guys on the interior, I could easily see our team going from a top-10 overall to top 4-7. At this point I'm willing to pay market value or even a little above for plus-defenders who aren't totally clueless offensively, even if in limited roles.

[EricaLubarsky]

If Shawn Marion is worth 17mill in his prime then Deng can certainly get 10m

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If Shawn Marion is worth 17mill in his prime then Deng can certainly get 10m

Shawn Marion in his prime was as much better than current deng as dirk in his prime was than current splitter. Marion is one of the 100 best players in the history of the nba. Deng is roughly one of the 50 best players currently in the nba. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Several of you are going to be INCREDIBLY disappointed in deng if we get him. If we are going to have a slow but decent defensive 3 who can't shoot, I'd just as soon resign the corpse of Shawn, because while deng is better than current Shawn, it's not by much.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I actually think that Melo and Ellis could be a pretty deadly combo after Dirk retires.

They really could be. In fact I bet Monta would be up for running point guard.

[Jproxursoxoff]

No to Threat Title. Just NO. Melo is one of two elite players in this league (other being Westbrook) that im sooo glad will never be a Mav.

Melo is lockerroom cancer. Everybody knows this. The dude would take a scoring title over a playoff berth any and every year.

I repeat: NO.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Shawn Marion in his prime was as much better than current deng as dirk in his prime was than current splitter. Marion is one of the 100 best players in the history of the nba. Deng is roughly one of the 50 best players currently in the nba. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Several of you are going to be INCREDIBLY disappointed in deng if we get him. If we are going to have a slow but decent defensive 3 who can't shoot, I'd just as soon resign the corpse of Shawn, because while deng is better than current Shawn, it's not by much.

Those two comparisons are a little weird to me, considering Marion/Deng are just very different players, and Dirk and Splitter couldn't be any more different unless they were playing different sports.

Marion, in his prime, is the most uniquely versatile defensive player since Scottie Pippen in his prime. Marion's prime years defensively are better than any current player in the NBA. I think we probably agree on that much. (Side note: It's really a shame that Marion's defensive contributions were mostly masked in Phoenix... isn't it nuts that this guy has never been on an All-Defense team? He's possibly the greatest wing defender of this generation!)

Let's not compare contracts from different CBAs. Marion was a fantastic player. Deng is easily one of the 15-20 best two way players in the league (in my opinion). I'm willing to pay him that much, though I honestly won't feel like it's money well-spent unless we also get a pretty significant defensive upgrade at the center position.

This summer could be, and should be crucial in defining what our team's makeup is going to be. We took a big step forward this year in getting back to the playoffs and giving the Spurs all they can handle. Now we need to diagnose our shortcomings and use our cap flexibility to improve those shortcomings. I think we all can mostly agree that our biggest needs in free agency/trade (after re-signing Dirk) are getting wing defenders and as good a two-way center as we can find. Deng clearly fills one of those needs, but as I said, if we spend a lot of money on him without making sure we have a rim protector or at least a shot blocker in the paint, we might not take much of a step forward.