Josh Edgy About Contract Status - Mike Fisher / DallasBasketball.com - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

V2M · 10-06-2006, 01:15 PM

Josh Edgy About Contract Status

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com

DENTON -- It seems Josh Howard is trying to see no evil, hear no evil, and especially, speak no evil. Almost as if Howard is afraid of what he's going to say, he punctuates each of the Mavs' morning training-camp sessions (when the media is allowed into the gym) by retreating. Into a corner. Onto the floor. Behind the ice buckets. Headphones on his ears. Text messages occupying his eyes.

"It's going to be hard,'' J-Ho says when I ask him for a brief visit. "I've got to go sign autographs. Lots of people out there who want autographs. But you can try.''

So I do. We do the walk-and-talk. And while the contract thing is a relative non-worry to me -- he gets it done in the coming days, or he gets it done next summer as a restricted FA, but either way, he's a big-money Mav sometime in the near future -- I do sense that J-Ho is very near springing a leak on the subject.

First I toss Josh an innocent softball regarding the Thursday night workout being cancelled in favor of a bonding get-together dinner. I say: "What did you guys do so right to get a night off?''

Answered J-Ho: "I know I've worked hard, that's all I know.''

Well, okaaaaaaaay, then. ...

Then I asked Josh about the contract issue specifically. I'm prepared to eventually discuss names and numbers. The Tayshaun and Manu names. The $47-to-$49-mil dollars. But first I say: "Does the issue bother you? Do the questions bother you?''

J-Ho, who often thinks his replies through, does not hesitate. He shoots me a look on my Tayshaun Prince reference (he doesn't like the comparison?) and then he shoots me a quote: "On that subject, at this point, you'd better ask them.''

Well, okaaaaaaaay, then. ...

Josh, who has one year at $1.66 mil left on his original rookie contract, had that omnipresent grin on his face as he spoke. But the smile is more of a staple of his than a show of positive emotion. Now, maybe catching him immediately following the rigors of a workout meant catching him at a less than cheery time. But on this day, anyway, and in Josh's mind, I believe, it's fair to say the negotiations are something shy of where he wishes they'd be. And from sniffing around, I get the impression that Josh gets the impression that this thing is not on track to get settled before the Oct. 31 deadline.

I will point out here that there are historical positives to letting a guy play on a final contract year. Won't J-Ho have an even better season knowing his performance will help determine his future wage? Hasn't Mark Cuban's usual policy -- "Shop yourself around, take a bunch of limo rides, and then come back home and I'll take care of ya'' -- worked pretty well in general? (OK, there was that one time it didn't, but still. ...) Besides, isn't Mavs management (the aforementioned "Them'') on record as saying Dallas would prefer to do it sooner rather than later? And no matter what, Josh knows that he's beloved here in Dallas, right?

Two other points regarding what Josh might think of his value, though: 1) If you play brilliantly through the first three years of a relatively crummy rookie contract, do you have the right to try to "catch up'' financially once it's time for that second contract? And 2) Does Josh have the right to believe that the bar isn't set by what Prince got paid in Detroit, but rather by what teammate Jason Terry got paid ($57 mil) in Dallas?

It is not Howard's style to create a fuss; he prides himself, I think, on being a low-maintenance guy. It is Howard's style to revel in the telling of the stories of his climb to the NBA; the obstacles, highlighted by him being drafted not until the final pick of the first round, are badges of honor to him. They are scar tissue.

Maybe this -- which I read to be Dallas' suggestion of a Prince-range contract and Josh's rejection of same -- represents another obstacle he's about to leap over. More scar tissue.

Off Josh goes, plunging into the mosh pit of fans who envelope the Mavs' team buses. He's signing, and still smiling. But the cel phone is still at the ready. And the headphones are still covering his ears. And his eyes still avoid contact with others. Even here, Josh Howard is trying to see no evil, hear no evil, and especially, speak no evil.

Pirate · 10-06-2006, 02:20 PM

I like the inside peeks at players. I've been anxious for some reporter to find out what's going on with Josh Howard and a contract. This article promises a lot on that topic and seemingly tosses out lots of insight.

But I hated the article.

Why? Because the info I wanted about Josh Howard is "what is he thinking." And this article really doesnt tell me.

There is a conversation between Fisher and Josh, but only one thing said from Josh on the contract topic. ""On that subject, at this point, you'd better ask them.''

So on the contract topic, this isnt a look into the mindset of Josh. It's a look into the mindset of Fisher.

Fisher might be right in what he is guessing, but it's a guess. Surmise this, assume that, and so on. As common as it is, I hate this type of journalism, because it isnt reporting. It's just guessing.

He was smiling, but I bet he didnt mean it.

I'm sure he was thinking this.

I bet that is going through his mind.

I sense something he didnt say but must have been thinking.

And so on.

Unfortunately, this is the best article we've seen so far on the topic. Credit to Fisher for at least trying to get something to us fans. But all this writing about what JH was thinking on the topic, and all he said was, "On that subject, at this point, you'd better ask them"? From those 10 words, we suddenly are being told that Josh is disturbed and these things are bothering him? To me, that's a real stretch.

So I'm still waiting for The Article on the topic, the one that gets Josh to reveal what is on his mind. But in my view, this wasn't it.

MavsX · 10-06-2006, 02:28 PM

show me the money

V2M · 10-06-2006, 04:59 PM

I agree with Pirate's views on the article. I felt the same... that this is the most we've seen since the camp started on this topic... and of course, being a Fish article, it doesn't say much on the topic!

Regardless, I think that Josh should get around Jet money (about $57m/6yrs). He's younger than Jet and, for the next 6 years, he clearly has far more potential. He plays a position that's more important than the combo guard position that Jet plays. He's taller, more athletic and is easily a better defender and rebounder than Jet. Also, Ager is coming up fast and can backup Jet if needed. We don't have anyone who is even close to replacing Josh.

Dirk & Josh could arguably be the best forward-combo in the league for a long time to come.

If he's forced to play without a big contract, this could be a long season for him and in the process who knows how his play might get affected at crunch times. Let's not waste a year in the hopes of saving a million or two/year for Mr. Cubes.

Finally, I say this with the presumption that Josh is willing to sign in that range. If he's asking for more than $60m/6yr, I'll just pass and wait until next year and match any offer that he may get in the free agency.

#1MavsFan · 10-06-2006, 05:32 PM

This may come back to haunt the mavs, especially if JHO has a nice season and Orlando decides to throw all their cap room at him next year.

dude1394 · 10-06-2006, 06:14 PM

Oh come on...fish is the first guys who's even approached him and you guys are ragging him for not forcing josh to talk about it???

DLord · 10-06-2006, 10:35 PM

DUDE - You are correct. No one has been able to talk to Josh so far, in depth. No one knows what he is thinking. Fisher tried to find out without any real success, apparently, but at least he talked to the guy and gave his impression. That's about all we know yet.

V2M - JHo can't be offered a contract mirroring Terry's of 6 yrs 57M until next July. If he signs now, the max length is only 5 yrs. If he wants the same money as JET, do you offer him 57M over only 5 yrs? [Terry's started at about 7.525M, while a 5 yr 57M deal would start at about 9.375M] Or do you tell him you'll give him the same 6 year deal at the very first chance you can offer it - ie, next July.

If that's the issue - that Josh thinks he should be paid the same as JET, but he is expecting it to be the same total contract without regard for the length - it's a sticky one to negotiate successfully. Let me caution that no one knows if that is part or all of what is in play, however.

V2M · 10-07-2006, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

DUDE - You are correct. No one has been able to talk to Josh so far, in depth. No one knows what he is thinking. Fisher tried to find out without any real success, apparently, but at least he talked to the guy and gave his impression. That's about all we know yet.

V2M - JHo can't be offered a contract mirroring Terry's of 6 yrs 57M until next July. If he signs now, the max length is only 5 yrs. If he wants the same money as JET, do you offer him 57M over only 5 yrs? [Terry's started at about 7.525M, while a 5 yr 57M deal would start at about 9.375M] Or do you tell him you'll give him the same 6 year deal at the very first chance you can offer it - ie, next July.

If that's the issue - that Josh thinks he should be paid the same as JET, but he is expecting it to be the same total contract without regard for the length - it's a sticky one to negotiate successfully. Let me caution that no one knows if that is part or all of what is in play, however.

Thanks for the update on the contract length, DLord. If it's only 5 yrs max, I say we can go up to 50mil. But that may not look too appealing to Josh considering the deals that Joe Johnson got last year or even Peja got this year.

So may be he just has to wait until next summer and get something close to 60m/6yr deal. I just hope we don't lose him right when Dirk's at his peak and the window of opportunity is fast closing.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-07-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Thanks for the update on the contract length, DLord. If it's only 5 yrs max, I say we can go up to 50mil. But that may not look too appealing to Josh considering the deals that Joe Johnson got last year or even Peja got this year.

So may be he just has to wait until next summer and get something close to 60m/6yr deal. I just hope we don't lose him right when Dirk's at his peak and the window of opportunity is fast closing.

According to Holger, Dirk has two more years til he's at his peek, so the window of oppurtunity isn't closing that fast. Re-signing Jho is a must though.

AxdemxO · 10-07-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

According to Holger, Dirk has two more years til he's at his peek, so the window of oppurtunity isn't closing that fast. Re-signing Jho is a must though.

I really really like Josh and want him re signed..BUT as i think more about it, if Josh wants too much and cant agree to a contract then i think we either do a sign and trade or just sign some1 else. Because we said the same thing about Nash and Finley and if we let those 2 guys go thn we can let Josh go and we only got better after we let em go. But i still wish they were both here.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-07-2006, 06:46 PM

How much was George's contract for again Fishy?

Tokey41 · 10-07-2006, 10:34 PM

Everyone knows Orlando will be targeting Vince Carter since he has openly suggested interest in playing there (and they all know they will have enough cap space), plus if they have the kind of season im guessing they will have it will seem like a pretty appealing place for VC to settle in... but if that somehow doesnt happen then i'd be worried about them pursuing Josh...

Im just excited about the season he could have as an FA, and if we win the championship (realistic goal)? Then resigning him and keeping the pieces together is a no brainer. If he steps up his game which we all thin he will and we win it all then he will deserve that money he craves.

A sidenote on the pieces: Im glad we did the offseason moves we did... but does anyone else have that remose that we signed Buckner for so much when Bonzi became desperate (I KNOW he would have signed with us for a year and play for a contract/championship) but I know we're not psychic and theres no way we could have predicted that... just sucks he landed on another team in our division.

AxdemxO · 10-08-2006, 12:22 AM

A sidenote on the pieces: Im glad we did the offseason moves we did... but does anyone else have that remose that we signed Buckner for so much when Bonzi became desperate (I KNOW he would have signed with us for a year and play for a contract/championship) but I know we're not psychic and theres no way we could have predicted that... just sucks he landed on another team in our division.[/QUOTE]

I believe that i m sykik and i almost perdicted Bonzi being in this position...I was pushing hard for us to get him....but hay shit happens....he will help the Rockets a lot though...i think if we got him our chances at a title would have increased...

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-08-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

A sidenote on the pieces: Im glad we did the offseason moves we did... but does anyone else have that remose that we signed Buckner for so much when Bonzi became desperate (I KNOW he would have signed with us for a year and play for a contract/championship) but I know we're not psychic and theres no way we could have predicted that... just sucks he landed on another team in our division.

We all knew he wasn't going to get as much money as he wanted, but we had no way of knowing that he'd take that little or if he would sign with us. Even though it was probable you can't blame the management for going out and getting a player that would help the team, for the price we did. Yes it's unfortunate, but there wasn't really a way to prevent it.

dude1394 · 10-08-2006, 08:49 AM

Sure in hind-sight bonzi would have been great. But it's easy to make moves after you know how everything is going to pan out.

Can't complain about bonzi. And he is kind of a knucklehead, you would have thought the kings would have come back if they were that happy with him.

Underdog · 10-08-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sure in hind-sight bonzi would have been great. But it's easy to make moves after you know how everything is going to pan out.

Can't complain about bonzi. And he is kind of a knucklehead, you would have thought the kings would have come back if they were that happy with him.

The Kings know what they're doing - Bonzi is a cancer...

mqywaaah · 10-08-2006, 11:28 PM

So any predictions? To JHo or not to JHo? God I hope we dont lose him... Ding Ding Ding Attention Mark Cuban!

kriD · 10-09-2006, 06:08 AM

No Joshin'

Howard's contract status isn't a laughing matter

By ART GARCIA
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Josh Howard can't help but notice who's signed and who's signed for what.

And he can't help but wonder why he isn't.

Eligible for an extension for the first time in his career, the Mavericks' starting small forward might not have a new long-term contract in place before the start of his fourth season.

And if a deal isn't done by the league's Oct. 31 deadline, Howard is prepared to test the market next summer, albeit as a restricted free agent. The Mavs would have the right to match any offer he would receive.

"I don't get the whole market thing," Howard said last week. "I've never experienced that. I don't understand it, but if they feel it's not the right time, I'll have one more great year here."

Howard isn't throwing down the gauntlet and calling this his last season in a Mavs uniform. He does remain puzzled at the contract impasse.

Despite being an emerging NBA star, and acknowledged as a cornerstone of the defending Western Conference champions, off-season negotiations haven't produced much.

"We're getting close to the deadline and we're still talking, but we're not there yet," Howard's agent, Jeff Schwartz, said.

Mavs owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson indicated that reaching an agreement by the end of the month is an option, not a priority.

"Of course we'd like to get it done, but we'll see what happens," Cuban said.

Added Nelson: "I don't think either side has any sense of urgency. It would be nice to have a deal done, but Josh isn't going anywhere. He wants to be here and we want him to be here."

The urgency issue is somewhat different in Howard's camp. "I'm going to focus on the next three weeks," Schwartz said.

So would Howard rather sign now?

"Any player in my situation would, that's been playing hard their whole career," he said. "I just have to roll with the punches. If Mark feels it's not the right time and Donnie feels it's not the right time, I just have to be ready for next year."

Howard, 26, wants to continue his career with the franchise that drafted him with the 29th selection of the 2003 first round. He's developed into a full-time starter the past two seasons, joining Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry as the team's top three players.

If he's frustrated about the negotiations, Howard is doing his best to bite his tongue.

"I'll just let all the fans say it and newspapers say it," he said. "There's nothing I can say. I know my agent talks to [the Mavs' front office], I know what they're saying, and what goes back and forth."

Howard's averages of 15.6 points and 6.3 rebounds were both third on the team last season. Those numbers rose to 16.7 points and 7.4 boards in the playoff run throughthe NBA Finals.

Only five members of Howard's first-round class have agreed to extensions, with just one drafted lower than fifth. LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh each agreed to max-level contracts that, based on projections, could be worth upward of $15 million a season.

Phoenix guard Leandro Barbosa, drafted right before Howard at No. 28, recently signed a five-year deal for $33 million.

While Howard freely admits he doesn't have the same negotiating power as the top-four group, he points to extensions other comparable swingmen have signed in recent years. Tayshaun Prince, Manu Ginobili, Rashard Lewis and Mike Dunleavy have all signed multiyear deals, averaging in the $8.5 million-$9.5 million range annually.

"It was their time then," said Howard, the Mavs' lowest paid starter at $1.6 million this season. "I just have to wait for my time. We are going to use that as a scale. When the time comes, I'm going to throw those names out there and see how it goes."

Cuban has traditionally held on to the team's core pieces, with the notable exception of Steve Nash two years ago.

Nowitzki recently signed a three-year extension worth in the neighborhood of $60 million. Terry wasn't a free agent for long, agreeing to a six-year deal for $57 million during the off-season. The team also exercised the fourth year of Devin Harris' rookie contract.

Howard, however, doesn't have Nowitzki's clout or Terry's bargaining power.

Another soft market next summer and Howard's restricted status could also work in the Mavs' favor. However, signing Howard now before a potential All-Star-caliber season could mean a substantial hometown discount.

Waiting runs the risk of alienating Howard, who felt slighted three years ago when he slid to the bottom of the first round. Howard's agent said his client won't agree to a deal just to get one done.

"Both Josh and I would like to get something finalized this year," Schwartz said, "but it's got to be a deal Josh feels good about."

dirt_dobber · 10-09-2006, 10:05 AM

I was curious to who his agent is and the other players he represents
and it is harder for me to find out than i thought.

I did find that Jeff Schwartz is president of AMG sports mgmt. and has
represented Tyson Chandler and Lamar Odom any conclusions????
Both of those guys got top dollar, I sure hope this doesn't become a distraction.

Five-ofan · 10-09-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Thanks for the update on the contract length, DLord. If it's only 5 yrs max, I say we can go up to 50mil. But that may not look too appealing to Josh considering the deals that Joe Johnson got last year or even Peja got this year.

So may be he just has to wait until next summer and get something close to 60m/6yr deal. I just hope we don't lose him right when Dirk's at his peak and the window of opportunity is fast closing.

JJ is ALOT better than josh. Peja got overpaid but when hes right, hes better than josh too. I dont want to lose josh but i think he has an inflated view of himself. That said, if he wont accept a reasonable extension, keep him and match what he gets next year or bluff matching and do a sign and trade.

sike · 10-09-2006, 10:57 AM

any word from Cuban on why the hold up?

mary · 10-09-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sure in hind-sight bonzi would have been great. But it's easy to make moves after you know how everything is going to pan out.

Can't complain about bonzi. And he is kind of a knucklehead, you would have thought the kings would have come back if they were that happy with him.

If I recall correctly, the Kings did make Bonzi a second offer. They wanted to re-sign the guy, but Bonzi's agent was an idiot. Considering they offered him at least 36 million dollars, I think they wanted him back.

mary · 10-09-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

any word from Cuban on why the hold up?

$$$$$$$

V2M · 10-09-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

any word from Cuban on why the hold up?

Length of the contract?!

V2M · 10-09-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

JJ is ALOT better than josh. Peja got overpaid but when hes right, hes better than josh too. I dont want to lose josh but i think he has an inflated view of himself. That said, if he wont accept a reasonable extension, keep him and match what he gets next year or bluff matching and do a sign and trade.

JJ is better than Josh but certainly not A LOT better... so much so that he deserves a $70m/5yr contract, plus Boris Diaw and a couple of 1st round picks! That's gotta' be one of the most overpaid & lopsided contracts I know, in recent times!!

Peja is not better than Josh now and certainly won't be for the next 5 or 6 years, as they play out their new contracts. Josh is still peaking, while Peja is clearly on the downhill of his career.

Regardless, I think it's in the best interest of the Mavs (and Josh too, of course!) to get it done before the Oct 31 deadline. No point going into a season in which anything short of a championship would be deemed a failure, with a big distraction. Let's not make the same mistake as we did with Nash. Yes, Josh is different in that he'll be a RFA but there could be teams out there with enough cap room and could potentially construct a deal so unfriendly that you may be forced to lose him for nothing. At the very least, there's a risk that Josh may try to play tentative & not to get hurt (although, knowing what we know of him, that's quite unlikely!).

Of course, if we were not this close to winning, I'd have said the same... just pay him the market value and if he walks, so be it... just go sign a replacement. But fortunately we're very close to a ring, and let's not jeopardize our chances by worrying about a mil or two/yr.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-09-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Let's not make the same mistake as we did with Nash. Yes, Josh is different in that he'll be a RFA but there could be teams out there with enough cap room and could potentially construct a deal so unfriendly that you may be forced to lose him for nothing. At the very least, there's a risk that Josh may try to play tentative & not to get hurt (although, knowing what we know of him, that's quite unlikely!).

Of course, if we were not this close to winning, I'd have said the same... just pay him the market value and if he walks, so be it... just go sign a replacement. But fortunately we're very close to a ring, and let's not jeopardize our chances by worrying about a mil or two/yr.

Amen

Underdog · 10-09-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

any word from Cuban on why the hold up?

Drama?

creditXpert2003 · 10-09-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

JJ is ALOT better than josh. Peja got overpaid but when hes right, hes better than josh too. I dont want to lose josh but i think he has an inflated view of himself. That said, if he wont accept a reasonable extension, keep him and match what he gets next year or bluff matching and do a sign and trade.

I can't agree that JJ and Peja are better. When Peja was in his prime he was better, but JJ is not better or at least not alot better than Josh. It seems that you miss the value of Howard. Howard is the Most Important Player with the Mavs. Namely because his scoring, rebounding and for the most part defense. To me, the closest player to Howard when it comes to an defensive all-around player is Prince. Howard is a better scorer and rebounder and better slasher to the hole.

If the Mavs lose Howard they lose their MOST important piece for the future. I would actually give up my season tickets if they did this as a protect, and influence about 10 other season ticket holders to do the same. Howard is one of the best up and coming All-Stars in the NBA, and should be paid as such. Dont forget that the Mavs need to play catch-up from his ole contract money. The Mavs got him for a bargain for 4 years after this season.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-09-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I can't agree that JJ and Peja are better. When Peja was in his prime he was better, but JJ is not better or at least not alot better than Josh. It seems that you miss the value of Howard. Howard is the Most Important Player with the Mavs. Namely because his scoring, rebounding and for the most part defense. To me, the closest player to Howard when it comes to an defensive all-around player is Prince. Howard is a better scorer and rebounder and better slasher to the hole.

If the Mavs lose Howard they lose their MOST important piece for the future. I would actually give up my season tickets if they did this as a protect, and influence about 10 other season ticket holders to do the same. Howard is one of the best up and coming All-Stars in the NBA, and should be paid as such. Dont forget that the Mavs need to play catch-up from his ole contract money. The Mavs got him for a bargain for 4 years after this season.

JJ is better than Josh, and Dirk is the most important Mav. Josh is an important piece, but not worth ruining the whole salary cap for. We all want him back, but if he is demanding more than 10 mil a year we aren't going to re-sign him.

Tokey41 · 10-09-2006, 06:03 PM

I know this isint exactly a great measurement... but I cant believe hes rated as high as he is in NBA Live 2007... maybe we dont appreciate the guy enough? Then again if I remember that list correctly hes rated higher than Dwight Howard (ridiculous).

creditXpert2003 · 10-09-2006, 06:04 PM

Free agency is a nightmare for most players in the NBA. Just like making it into the NBA.I fought those demons for a little while and landed overseas. I know plenty of players and coaches, and it is all the same with them. Free Agency can break the spirit of a player. That is why so many players put 150% into their last year of contract, because they want a team to sign them quickly and get it over with.

I wish fans knew the real deal inside professional sports. Put it this way, it is no different than politics. People lie to you left and right, and it is hard to trust anyone. Lastly, when you are a player like Howard and money was low, then your agent is most likely not the top choice for you. You are caught up as a Superstar talent, but only the money for a draft pick type agent. Howard wants this overwith, but the Mavs are playing it like any other team would do, so it is hard on Howard. Trust me...

creditXpert2003 · 10-09-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

JJ is better than Josh, and Dirk is the most important Mav. Josh is an important piece, but not worth ruining the whole salary cap for. We all want him back, but if he is demanding more than 10 mil a year we aren't going to re-sign him.

Dirk is the Most Valuable Player, but Josh is the most important. Josh is needed for EVERYTHING on the court, especially to spark the defense. Where did you get ruining the salary cap from Howard? The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward. Take a look at this. Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard! Howard should get 8-10 million a year with this new contract, but there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

fluid.forty.one · 10-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Dirk is the Most Valuable Player, but Josh is the most important.

LOL

Let's see.... Josh injured = still win a lot of games
Dirk injured = bye bye playoffs

It's not even close dude, I wouldn't go there.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-09-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Dirk is the Most Valuable Player, but Josh is the most important. Josh is needed for EVERYTHING on the court, especially to spark the defense. Where did you get ruining the salary cap from Howard? The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward. Take a look at this. Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard! Howard should get 8-10 million a year with this new contract, but there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

Most Valuable=Most Important

I know Howard is a key piece, and I think signing him for 8-10 mil a year is almost a no brainer, but I'm saying if he wants more than 10 mil a year we are probably going to let him walk. The Mavs MVP in 09-10 is still Dirk imo.

We know it's hard on Howard, we can easily see that in articles such as this. He wants it done quickly, and so do we. If he wants it done so quickly though he should be happy with the 8-10 mil a year and not try to get more. If he tries to get more it will take longer for a deal to get done.

fluid.forty.one · 10-09-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

The Mavs MVP in 09-10 is still Dirk imo.

It should be everyones opinion, and not even be close. Hell he should be MVP of the league, let alone the team. We live and die by the Dirk. Atleast for 3 more years or so.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-09-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

It should be everyones opinion, and not even be close. Hell he should be MVP of the league, let alone the team. We live and die by the Dirk. Atleast for 3 more years or so.

Right, and I think for more like 5-6 years. Heck, he's only 28.

Underdog · 10-09-2006, 07:02 PM

Dirk might be the most important/valuable player on the team, but Josh is a solid #2 with a lot of room for improvement/upside... You don't just give a guy like that up unless you can get somebody as good as or better than him... I agree that we live & die by Dirk, but we sure as hell don't beat teams like the Spurs or the Suns without a quality supporting cast featuring players like Josh...

fluid.forty.one · 10-09-2006, 07:09 PM

We wouldn't have beaten them without Harris either. I know Howard is very important, and probably the #2, but I was just saying it's dumb to say he's the most important person on the team over Dirk.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-09-2006, 07:14 PM

That's true Underdog, I would agree that Josh is #2, but he definetly isn't more important than Dirk. I don't think we should give him up, but we can't be paying him more than 10 mil a year.

Underdog · 10-09-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

We wouldn't have beaten them without Harris either. I know Howard is very important, and probably the #2, but I was just saying it's dumb to say he's the most important person on the team over Dirk.

Oh, I agree that Devin, JET, Diop - EVERYBODY (even KVH 1 or 2 times!) - helped get us to the Finals last season... I just wouldn't write Josh off until after we see what he's capable of this season... I think Cuban is gambling on a great contract season from JHo & will pay him well IF Howard proves he's worth the money... This tactic has been used several times to push potentially great players to the next level [the carrot/donkey method...]

I think Credit2k3 puts the IMPORTANCE of Josh so high because he is the other man in the Dirk/playerX duo... How would we have handled Wade if there was no Shaq to double team? How hard would it be to shut Duncan down without Parker adding a threat? How do you stop a healthy Stoudmire/Nash combo? I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point - Dirk needs a sidekick who is capable of pulling a double team to open him & his team up for big plays [this is why LeBron & Kobe can't get it done by themselves...]

Josh hasn't stepped up to that role yet, but this season would be an opportune time to rise to the challenge... Let's see if he can be a superstar - THAT'S worth more than 10mil!