Recap: The entertainment of the Josh Howard Contract thread

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by jthig32

08-09:
Erick Dampier $11,550,000
Jason Terry $9,075,000
Greg Buckner $3,758,400
DJ Mbenga $2,057,000
Maurice Ager $1,042,440 (if team picks up option)
!Devin Harris $7,990,006 (qualifying offer)

I count 27 guaranteed before Dirk, and not including Devin, who almost certainly will be signed for a decent sized contract.

Add in Josh and fill out the roster and there isn't a chance in hell we're under the cap.

Where do you get $27 million guaranteed...I see
9.5 Erick
9.0 Terry

Devin is not guaranteed, and Buckner is not as well. So when you factor the guaranteed then you are well under. Then we will add Dirk,Howard and Harris to the major mix of things and we are still sitting under as of right now.

[jthig32]

Buck is guranteed, as is Benga. Buck's option year is the next year.

I noted that Devin was not guranteed. It's not even a contract. It's just a guess at the qualifying offer.

The point is pretty much moot, anyway, unless you think we're going to replace Stack, Croshere and George with league minimum players, and not resign Devin and Diop.

With Dirk and Terry, and the contract Josh is goign to get, we are never going to be under the cap.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Another good example is Duncan. 3 different casts, 3 different rings. Superstars win championship, a good supporting cast (meaning players 2-9 on the rotation) help.

When I look at Duncan with those three different casts. Here is how I break down the MVP/MIP my version.

First title-- Robinson MVP, Duncan MIP
Second title-- Duncan MVP,Robinson MIP
Third title---Duncan MVP, Ginobili MIP

Dont get me wrong, role players play a huge role no matter what.

Show me a Superstar winning a title with just role players behind him, and not a MIP type person with him.......

But, a team full of MIP's can win a title..I would say that the last Pistons title team fit that mode..

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Walker/Payton were the difference? I beg to differ it was Shaq/Mourning/Posey that was the difference from my viewpoint.

Shaq/Mourning completey changed the way the mavs had been playing and completely neutralized devin.

Edit: Morning or Mutumbo (can't ever keep those two straight)

I can respect your viewpoint because it is valid, plus that is your viewpoint. I do agree that about Mourning..

Here is what I see for Walker. Walker killed the Mavs with points all series long. On top of that he created the biggest match-up problem because we were playing small with Harris. This forced Howard to guard him, and Howard was much shorter and smaller to guard Walker. As for Payton, he hit those clutch shots to beat us in two games.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I can respect your viewpoint because it is valid, plus that is your viewpoint. I do agree that about Mourning..

Here is what I see for Walker. Walker killed the Mavs with points all series long. On top of that he created the biggest match-up problem because we were playing small with Harris. This forced Howard to guard him, and Howard was much shorter and smaller to guard Walker. As for Payton, he hit those clutch shots to beat us in two games.

Walker got baskets, but he also missed a bunch of shots. Zo single handedly changed the way we played offense in that series.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Buck is guranteed, as is Benga. Buck's option year is the next year.

I noted that Devin was not guranteed. It's not even a contract. It's just a guess at the qualifying offer.

The point is pretty much moot, anyway, unless you think we're going to replace Stack, Croshere and George with league minimum players, and not resign Devin and Diop.

With Dirk and Terry, and the contract Josh is goign to get, we are never going to be under the cap.

I am curious to see where Buck is guaranteed that 3rd year of his contract for that amount. Yeah, I do think that DJ is guranteed but it is not that high on the radar, I think.

The reason I think we are over now, is because we were paying two Dirk type of contracts with Finley, top that off with Bradley and a host of other contracts that were linked to us after that player left.

Plus, I think that cap space is going to go up a bit in my viewpoint.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Buck is guranteed, as is Benga. Buck's option year is the next year.

I noted that Devin was not guranteed. It's not even a contract. It's just a guess at the qualifying offer.

The point is pretty much moot, anyway, unless you think we're going to replace Stack, Croshere and George with league minimum players, and not resign Devin and Diop.

With Dirk and Terry, and the contract Josh is goign to get, we are never going to be under the cap.

I forgot to mention my reply to your last part. Stack's salary will go down a ton, because of his age. Croshere and George will never make much. I think when it is time to re-sign Devin we will lose him or trade Terry in my opinion. As for Diop, unless Diop starts averaging 15 points a game, he wont get that huge contract.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Walker got baskets, but he also missed a bunch of shots. Zo single handedly changed the way we played offense in that series.

Yeah, he missed some shots, but he hit more than normal and had a field day with Howard. His size negated Howard's defense because we were playing small with Harris.

Now, Zo!!!! He did win game 6...Hands down..

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Yeah, he missed some shots, but he hit more than normal and had a field day with Howard. His size negated Howard's defense because we were playing small with Harris.

Now, Zo!!!! He did win game 6...Hands down..

I would still say that Zo and Shaq were much more key than Walker in that series.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I forgot to mention my reply to your last part. Stack's salary will go down a ton, because of his age. Croshere and George will never make much. I think when it is time to re-sign Devin we will lose him or trade Terry in my opinion. As for Diop, unless Diop starts averaging 15 points a game, he wont get that huge contract.

We're not talking huge contracts. I'm not talking about resigning Stack and Croshere and George, I'm talking about what their replacements will make.

Dirk is 20 mil. Jet is 9, Josh will be 8 or 9, probably. That's over half the cap in three players. Add in Damp and you're almost to 50 mil in four players.

If you trade Terry when it's time to resign Devin, you still have to bring pretty much the same salary back in the trade, so how does that move us under the cap?

Yes, we have several big contracts coming off the books, but we are also WAY, WAY over the cap right now. We're still in the luxury tax.

We will never be under the cap when three players make up over half the cap.

And it has been widely reported that Bucks is a 5 year deal, with a team option for the fourth year, and a player option for the 5th year, if the 4th year option is exercised. So yes, he's guaranteed that year.

Also, if the cap goes up, then the price of mid level and low level exceptions will also go up. So I don't really think that will help us that much.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I can respect your viewpoint because it is valid, plus that is your viewpoint. I do agree that about Mourning..

Here is what I see for Walker. Walker killed the Mavs with points all series long. On top of that he created the biggest match-up problem because we were playing small with Harris. This forced Howard to guard him, and Howard was much shorter and smaller to guard Walker. As for Payton, he hit those clutch shots to beat us in two games.

Payton hit some clutch shots, but you can't put a guy as the person that beats a team in a 7 game series with a couple of big shots. Steve Kerr beat the mavs in game 6 of WCF but he surely wasn't the reason the spurs won that.

You've got an argument with Walker. My contention that it was the defense of shaq/mourning/haslem/udonis that slowed down dirk and that was the difference.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I would just like to address these two point, the rest I will take for what they are, because you are starting to organize your thoughts better and post them in a more thought out way.

1. This is your opinion, so I can't just say it's wrong. I will however say that I 100% disagree with it. At the start of the 09 season Dirk will be 31 years old (5-0, I believe you are wrong in saying he'd be 33) By that time he will most likely have reached his peak, but I wouldn't say he would be starting to tale off. I doubt that Josh will be able to close the gap that quickly, especially since he's only like 2-3 years younger than Dirk.

2. Superstars don't cancel each other out. Your second statement is a good one though. I get what you are saying, but the way you worded it made it sound incorrect. Basically, superstars will be superstars, so they aren't always the key to a series. It's the role players and 2-9 guys in the rotation that have to step up for the team to be successful. I think this is what you meant, and it is correct.

1. As for Dirk, I am not just counting age, I am counting years in the NBA. Those are the years that actually count with your body. With that in mind, Howard/Dirk are 5 years a part. I think that year will be Dirk's 12th year and Howard's 7th year.

2. When you say Superstars will be Superstars, then to most players that means cancel out. That is why we say you can't stop a Superstar. So, this is why I say the next level is what I call the MIP, then the rest of the role players in my opinion.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by jthig32

We're not talking huge contracts. I'm not talking about resigning Stack and Croshere and George, I'm talking about what their replacements will make.

Dirk is 20 mil. Jet is 9, Josh will be 8 or 9, probably. That's over half the cap in three players. Add in Damp and you're almost to 50 mil in four players.

If you trade Terry when it's time to resign Devin, you still have to bring pretty much the same salary back in the trade, so how does that move us under the cap?

Yes, we have several big contracts coming off the books, but we are also WAY, WAY over the cap right now. We're still in the luxury tax.

We will never be under the cap when three players make up over half the cap.

And it has been widely reported that Bucks is a 5 year deal, with a team option for the fourth year, and a player option for the 5th year, if the 4th year option is exercised. So yes, he's guaranteed that year.

Also, if the cap goes up, then the price of mid level and low level exceptions will also go up. So I don't really think that will help us that much.

I think we wont replace them, we will re-sign Stack,Croshere and Devean for the league mins or a bit more rather than bring in more salary. From what I know and from what I know with the Mavs, we are moving towards the SA salary model.

SA has this big three as well, but the key is the role player salaries. In the past we were trying to buy a title. Now, good role players will sign for cheaper to play with the Mavs. This itself in my viewpoint is how we will make cap room. I have watched a trend to where teams like SA sign great older role players to smaller contracts. I think the Mavs are going in that direction.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Payton hit some clutch shots, but you can't put a guy as the person that beats a team in a 7 game series with a couple of big shots. Steve Kerr beat the mavs in game 6 of WCF but he surely wasn't the reason the spurs won that.

You've got an argument with Walker. My contention that it was the defense of shaq/mourning/haslem/udonis that slowed down dirk and that was the difference.

Reason why I throw Payton in, is because he never should have hit those shots at all. Just by him missing those two shots, they would have lost. Sometimes it is not your total effort, but the timing. I think Payton hit two of the most timely shots in that series. When I factor that, I put Payton up there. Other than those two shots, he did nothing else. Kinda like Horry and his timing with shots. He does nothing the whole game or series, but hits that timely shot..Payton did it, and we all know we did not even expect him to hit those shots. I think the unseen events like that are a killer in my viewpoint.

Yes, they did a job on Dirk, but they did not stop him. When I say killer, I dont talk about stat wise info, it is the timelines of events.

[dude1394]

It will be quite interesting to see what happens once dirk/timmah are done. In those cases I expect the mavs/spurts will have to go bottom feeding to continue. In the NBA if you don't have a top 5 player you aren't doing squat.

It will be interesting to see what cubes does however. Another way would be to go back to spending like a banshee to get bargaining chips to get that top 5 in trades.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I think we wont replace them, we will re-sign Stack,Croshere and Devean for the league mins or a bit more rather than bring in more salary. From what I know and from what I know with the Mavs, we are moving towards the SA salary model.

SA has this big three as well, but the key is the role player salaries. In the past we were trying to buy a title. Now, good role players will sign for cheaper to play with the Mavs. This itself in my viewpoint is how we will make cap room. I have watched a trend to where teams like SA sign great older role players to smaller contracts. I think the Mavs are going in that direction.

Well, that's going to be tough to accomplish paying Damp around 10 mil a year.

The Spurs have their big three making slightly less than what our big three will make, and their nixt highest paid player is at 5 mil. We have Damp at around 10.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Reason why I throw Payton in, is because he never should have hit those shots at all. Just by him missing those two shots, they would have lost. Sometimes it is not your total effort, but the timing. I think Payton hit two of the most timely shots in that series. When I factor that, I put Payton up there. Other than those two shots, he did nothing else. Kinda like Horry and his timing with shots. He does nothing the whole game or series, but hits that timely shot..Payton did it, and we all know we did not even expect him to hit those shots. I think the unseen events like that are a killer in my viewpoint.

Yes, they did a job on Dirk, but they did not stop him. When I say killer, I dont talk about stat wise info, it is the timelines of events.

Credit that's a little weird. Someone has to hit last shots. It wasn't even like they weren't wide open, they were caused by doubles on other players. He was doing a pretty pedestrian NBA players job imo.
Timing of shots makes guys local heroes, but in actuality the whole game is a series of shots made/missed. If the guys hadn't made the last 10 points, payton doesn't get a game-tying/winning attempt. I don't buy it.

It's like saying that Calvin Booth was the big reason we won the UTAH series years ago. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time and did what he was supposed to do.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, that's going to be tough to accomplish paying Damp around 10 mil a year.

The Spurs have their big three making slightly less than what our big three will make, and their nixt highest paid player is at 5 mil. We have Damp at around 10.

Yeah, that Damp contract will hurt around that time. It will seem kinda like Finley's but a little better, but we wont have a Bradley running around at that time as well;-)

Hopefully, our success becomes a breeding ground for players wanting to get here by taking less money.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Credit that's a little weird. Someone has to hit last shots. It wasn't even like they weren't wide open, they were caused by doubles on other players. He was doing a pretty pedestrian NBA players job imo.
Timing of shots makes guys local heroes, but in actuality the whole game is a series of shots made/missed. If the guys hadn't made the last 10 points, payton doesn't get a game-tying/winning attempt. I don't buy it.

It's like saying that Calvin Booth was the big reason we won the UTAH series years ago. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time and did what he was supposed to do.

Thats the nature of the business. Even in a players mind, the thing that sticks in their mind is that Payton shot that he has never hit in the clutch. Both of those shots were not even shots he makes, nor less hit in that clutch situation. If those were lay-ups, it would be nothing really, more or less about how did your defense allow a lay-up.

Come of, Booth hit really a lay-up ;-)

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Thats the nature of the business. Even in a players mind, the thing that sticks in their mind is that Payton shot that he has never hit in the clutch. Both of those shots were not even shots he makes, nor less hit in that clutch situation. If those were lay-ups, it would be nothing really, more or less about how did your defense allow a lay-up.

Come of, Booth hit really a lay-up ;-)

No it's not the nature of the "business". It is what it is. He hit an open shot, great, but he wasn't much of a factor in getting them there. Just like booth wasn't a factor in getting the mavs where they could win it wiht a layup. How does Payton not make open shots, he's one of the best point guards in the biz and he's played a zillion years. Now I give the guy credit for hitting them, but not the credit of "winning the series".

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

No it's not the nature of the "business". It is what it is. He hit an open shot, great, but he wasn't much of a factor in getting them there. Just like booth wasn't a factor in getting the mavs where they could win it wiht a layup. How does Payton not make open shots, he's one of the best point guards in the biz and he's played a zillion years. Now I give the guy credit for hitting them, but not the credit of "winning the series".

See, now you are playing with my words. Never did I say he won the series. Dont twist my words just stick to what I am saying. As far as for Payton, he not been known to hit outside shots or big shots, so that was my other point with it..But, never mind you seen to just want to make it a me calling Payton the reason they won.

Heres something you may understand what I am saying, the "REFS" were the key to Miami winning a title..Do you agree with that..As of matter of fact, the "REFS" gave the title on a platter to the Heat..

[Dirkadirkastan]

REFS = MIPs!

[dude1394]

Credit...I'm not playing anything with your words, I'm not parsing them, don't start that crap again. Here is your post.

When I say cancel each other out, I am talking about in most games. I think that Dirk/Wade did cancel each other out in my opinion. Wade did better, but I think the main difference was Walker/Payton. W/O those two the Mavs would have won the title even with Wade's numbers. My opionion is that Howard's lack of production to back Dirk killed us.

Let me repeat

but I think the main difference was Walker/Payton. W/O those two the Mavs would have won the title even with Wade's numbers.

Either just say that you mis-spoke or meant something different or revise your remarks but for goodness sakes quit trying to somehow refuse your own posts. You continue to make it very difficult to have a conversation with you.

[Five-ofan]

See why it was a good thing i just admitted i was wrong about zito? this is why i did that. Its either, admit you were wrong, run away, just keep posting the same thing over and over even after its been proven wrong, or pull a floyd landis.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Credit...I'm not playing anything with your words, I'm not parsing them, don't start that crap again. Here is your post.



Let me repeat



Either just say that you mis-spoke or meant something different or revise your remarks but for goodness sakes quit trying to somehow refuse your own posts. You continue to make it very difficult to have a conversation with you.

Just say you dont get it....In your view of what I am saying, I would say that Wade is the reason they won a title. In my view, I am saying that the key along with Wade that most players view as key are the points that I am making..

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

REFS = MIPs!

Agreed.......

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Credit...I'm not playing anything with your words, I'm not parsing them, don't start that crap again. Here is your post.



Let me repeat



Either just say that you mis-spoke or meant something different or revise your remarks but for goodness sakes quit trying to somehow refuse your own posts. You continue to make it very difficult to have a conversation with you.

Once again you are taking my viewpoints and arguing with it....Just because you feel Walker/Payton was not a difference maker then my viewpoint is mute! What I will do is start taking your viewpoints and if mines is different than I will just argue against you until you see it my way.

Nothing you say or do will cause me to change my mind on MY statement. There is no right or wrong in my statement. It is my view point. If you think other wise, just state your view point. It is as simple as that.

Lastly, whenever I post my view point you seem to show up on my reputation with a negative. Face it, this is not a right or wrong discussion with my view point.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

For the record, Superstars from each team cancels out each other..Remember that....

Michael Jordan?

Originally Posted by Pirate

Age and exposure to the game doesnt carry with it any guarantee to insight whatsoever. You can be older and still be clueless. Even though you might even think you know it all.

Bill Walton.

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Michael Jordan?

Pippen?

Bill Walton.

Magic?

Now, what would a list look like if we looked at 15-25 ages?

Would you agree that list would alot longer?

[creditXpert2003]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Michael Jordan?



Bill Walton.

Mendoza Boys?
Jackass Cast?
Maurice Clarett?

[DLord]

There is so much I want to weigh in on, regarding all the tax, cap, and contract issues in this thread. Unfortunately, from the angles being discussed, it would be an incredibly lengthy conversation to take things from the starting point of "hooopshype" type numbers, and get them all the way to reality.

Rest assured I dont think I am the only person that understands these things. I'm sure some of you (probably most, in fact) already "get it." But it is apparent some aren't even close, and usually trying to explain things to get the "slow children" caught up becomes problematic on many levels.

So instead, let me just make a few points rather than conduct a seminar ...
..... there is absolutely no way that Josh Howard's deal is not impacted by tax issues
..... the Mavs already are at way more than $18M for the year after Finley expires
..... note also that to focus on the currently existing number of committed dollars for a future year - whatever it may be - is stunningly naive. Such a number ignores tons of added issues that will come into play such as other players that need to be signed between now and then, cap holds for free agents, draft picks, qualifying offers, empty roster slots to be filled, and so on.
..... you aren't going to have 5-6 players on your roster when all is said and done, and you wont fill all the remaining slots with cheapies as they expire either.
..... using easy logical projections based on how the Mavs build their roster, the Mavs money for Josh Howard (once you factor in all the other issues between now and then) will have not only cap consequences but also almost certain TAX ramifications in that year and beyond. Obviously the Mavs themselves are working within the parameters of such projections. Most of you probably intuitively already comprehend this anyhow. (The fuller explanation would get very detailed and probably too technical to be readable or enjoyable to write.)

One other point needs to be made, in relation to something said in this discussion. It was stated that the Mavs are headed towards the SA financial model.
a. One who refers to such a model probably doesnt even know what the Spurs are doing financially.
b. One who refers to such a model also probably doesnt know what the Spurs have done in the past.
c. The reference to copying the Spurs' financial model sounds like a mimicking of the concept that is commonly mentioned in Dallas - that "the Mavs are using the SA model" - without realizing that it is actually used as a reference to playing style and roster makeup rather than to finances.
d. One who refers to such a model probably has fallen for certain popular "myths" about the Spurs finances that aren't even true.

In general, the Spurs player payroll isn't much different than those of other teams. They are regularly over the cap. They almost never have spending money beyond the MLE for free agents (just like the Mavs). They even have to pay tax sometimes. There is a myth that they are magicians with the way they play their players, but it's just not true. Never has been.

This has already gotten long and detailed and I haven't even scratched the surface. But I think the points have been made.

DL

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

BTW, I officially have given out enough rep to give you rep again mr Credit. However im going to refrain. Lets just chalk your begining up to a bad start that turned out to be funny, and start over. Im looking for a reason to positive rep you if you post anything coherent and not moronic in the next day or 2.

Screw him. He neg repped a bunch of us. Of course, the little retard doesn't realize that his puny rep power didn't effect anyone since he's blue...but that is another point. This guy has earned piss and vitriol.

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Chumdawg, you said "We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops."

Ignoring the dismissive arrogance adopted by the newbie from the get-go, how about considering the "discussion-worthiness" of the following statements by this bozo. Once you look at the things being said, it's hard to treat them seriously. You think these are credible statements worth discussing?

And keep in mind that before you can even deal with one of these gems, another two or three come gushing forth.

1. The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward.
2. Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard!
3. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.
4. [Howard] is also our best rebounder in traffic
5. MVP and MIP have different roles on a team
6. Since you are the smart one, please enlighten me on the 10-point breakdown of a player film session? I am clearly talking over your head, so just dont respond
7. Dirk is not a traffic rebounder
8. the hands are tied for the Mavs and Howard right now, unless Howard says he will accept the highest amount he can extend for right now.
9. That is why you see so many deals where the signing bonus is so high and the salary is lower.
10. Sometimes that huge signing bonus will put you close or over the cap just to get a deal done.
11. Sometimes when you see players fire agents real quick, is because language in the contract comes to light that is not in the best interest of the player.
12. Talk basketball 501 with me. ..Have you heard the basketball terminology "Basketball 501"?
13. For the record, Superstars from each team cancels out each other..Remember that....
14. Since I am a huge idiot dont reply to my posts.
15. do you know how smart a monkey is? Of course you don't, because you would not had let that come out of your lil mouth.
16. Howard does not have any plays for him, so his points have to come from transition points.
17. It has to happen like this to get the most from Howard. If they renew him now ...
18. This is why the Mavs should have waited another year to give Daniels that type of money.
19. Now if Howard was the MVP, this would had been taken care of with a shorter contract extension like Wade and Lebron's contracts.
20. And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure
21. Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue.
22. I am not going to hold your hand on it, just read up on it since it is your CBA bible, which it is still not the complete CBA info, and also is not the official rulebook on this situation, because there are still other loopholes in the CBA.
23. This tells me that you are indeed a journalist. Your credibility is now shot with me.
24. Until he tells me he has signed an actually contract and had an actual agent and attorney to decipher the CBA for him then dont expect me to see him as an self-proclaimed expert with the CBA.
25. Not even current NBA players can decipher it. It takes an attorney to decipher the CBA, and a good one at that.
26. It is hard for me to put it in words w/o an attorney, but their is alot of things behind the scene that the public dont have access to
27. All I am saying is that it is not "Cut" and "Dry" like most people think. I know this personally.
28. The Mavs are restricted to show their top hand right now because of the CBA.
29. Josh and his camp feel his value is more than what the max in the CBA can offer him.
30. It could be that Josh would accept the max extension contract, but the Mavs have not offered it yet
31. I am not an attorney or expert to the CBA and DLORD is NOT as well. If he was he would not be a writer, he would be an attorney.
32. Every NBA groupie is just as persistent as yourself. Ever heard of cold shoulder? What about falling on death ears?
33. Far from stupid or old, but I guess you are catechized enough to say that? I would never listen to a loquacious person like yourself when you post like this. Never mind how I decide to post, I just post and hit the submit button. When did a message board become the cream of society for spell check? See your last post farther proved that for the most part philistinism is a common trait in many who have blasted me simply because my view point was different. Now go break that down, Mr. Pundit...

That pile of sheer lunacy was all by one person, in one thread. One. There are so many factual errors and just stupid things said in there, you cant even begin to discuss them. And that's just a partial list.

And you think everyone should have stopped and tried to engage in some sort of serious hoops discussion with him, or considered his words as having some merit, when mixed in the middle of such a pile of manure?

You yourself tried to dig him out of his hole, and as soon as you turned your back, he had dug himself an even deeper one with DLord and others.

I'm sorry, but at some point when dealing with this type, all you can do is just take a step back and start laughing at the sheer folly.

scoreboard.



BTW....Pirate has REALLY been the poster of the month.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

1. As for Dirk, I am not just counting age, I am counting years in the NBA. Those are the years that actually count with your body. With that in mind, Howard/Dirk are 5 years a part. I think that year will be Dirk's 12th year and Howard's 7th year.

2. When you say Superstars will be Superstars, then to most players that means cancel out. That is why we say you can't stop a Superstar. So, this is why I say the next level is what I call the MIP, then the rest of the role players in my opinion.

1. Even so, he will only be 31 meaning his body is still relatively young even if he's been playing for 12 seasons. I still don't see how he would lose that much from his game or Howard gain that much in a mere three seasons. Even through a combination of Dirk slightly regressing and Josh progressing, I still think that Dirk is easily still the MVP of the time. This whole arugment is just speculation and opinion for both of us, so we'll see in the 09-10 season.

2. When I said Superstars will be Superstars, I meant they can't be stopped. They can however be slowed, or they can step it up in a given series (for example Dirk was slowed in the Heat series, but he stepped it up in the Spurs series). There is also the fact that Superstars aren't all the same talent level, even though they are all classified as superstars. So it is almost never true that the Superstar from one team in a series = the Superstar of the other team in the series. Yes their numbers are probably similar, but they are always different.

Your point about the MIP and role players is valid, I think you are correct in saying that that is usually what determines the outcome of a series. If the role players step it up as well as the MIP, the team has a much much better chance of winning that series. My point is though, that saying superstars "cancel each other out" is ludicrous in my opinion. It is the supporting cast that usually are the difference in winning or losing a series, but superstars don't always play the same, they have good and bad series' so their production is never = to their counterparts'.

[Drbio]

Thanks again DLord.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It will be quite interesting to see what happens once dirk/timmah are done. In those cases I expect the mavs/spurts will have to go bottom feeding to continue. In the NBA if you don't have a top 5 player you aren't doing squat.

It will be interesting to see what cubes does however. Another way would be to go back to spending like a banshee to get bargaining chips to get that top 5 in trades.

I was thinking about this recently as well. It kind of worries me. I was thinking that our window of oppurtunity is big now with Duncan starting to slow down (he hasn't yet imo, but he will in the next few years) but when you think about it Dirk isn't going to be around a whole lot longer than Tim.

So in reality, our window of oppurtunity isn't actually that big, and once Dirk is gone I think it will close for awhile as we try to get ourselves back into the elite. I don't think we will be an elite team once Dirk is gone, unless Jho or Devin turn into the superstars they could turn out to be. Unless we are able to get another superstar after Dirk is gone, we'll be in trouble. I guess there's no need to worry about that kind of stuff now seeing how Dirk has a bunch of years left in him, but still I think it's worth thinking about.....

[capitalcity]

I got two MIPs and one MIPT over the course of 20 months back in high school.

The Arlington municipal courts made me take Alcohol Awarness 501.

[mary]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Chumdawg, you said "We should probably be a little nicer to new people who actually want to talk hoops."

Ignoring the dismissive arrogance adopted by the newbie from the get-go, how about considering the "discussion-worthiness" of the following statements by this bozo. Once you look at the things being said, it's hard to treat them seriously. You think these are credible statements worth discussing?

And keep in mind that before you can even deal with one of these gems, another two or three come gushing forth.

1. The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward.
2. Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard!
3. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.
4. [Howard] is also our best rebounder in traffic
5. MVP and MIP have different roles on a team
6. Since you are the smart one, please enlighten me on the 10-point breakdown of a player film session? I am clearly talking over your head, so just dont respond
7. Dirk is not a traffic rebounder
8. the hands are tied for the Mavs and Howard right now, unless Howard says he will accept the highest amount he can extend for right now.
9. That is why you see so many deals where the signing bonus is so high and the salary is lower.
10. Sometimes that huge signing bonus will put you close or over the cap just to get a deal done.
11. Sometimes when you see players fire agents real quick, is because language in the contract comes to light that is not in the best interest of the player.
12. Talk basketball 501 with me. ..Have you heard the basketball terminology "Basketball 501"?
13. For the record, Superstars from each team cancels out each other..Remember that....
14. Since I am a huge idiot dont reply to my posts.
15. do you know how smart a monkey is? Of course you don't, because you would not had let that come out of your lil mouth.
16. Howard does not have any plays for him, so his points have to come from transition points.
17. It has to happen like this to get the most from Howard. If they renew him now ...
18. This is why the Mavs should have waited another year to give Daniels that type of money.
19. Now if Howard was the MVP, this would had been taken care of with a shorter contract extension like Wade and Lebron's contracts.
20. And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure
21. Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue.
22. I am not going to hold your hand on it, just read up on it since it is your CBA bible, which it is still not the complete CBA info, and also is not the official rulebook on this situation, because there are still other loopholes in the CBA.
23. This tells me that you are indeed a journalist. Your credibility is now shot with me.
24. Until he tells me he has signed an actually contract and had an actual agent and attorney to decipher the CBA for him then dont expect me to see him as an self-proclaimed expert with the CBA.
25. Not even current NBA players can decipher it. It takes an attorney to decipher the CBA, and a good one at that.
26. It is hard for me to put it in words w/o an attorney, but their is alot of things behind the scene that the public dont have access to
27. All I am saying is that it is not "Cut" and "Dry" like most people think. I know this personally.
28. The Mavs are restricted to show their top hand right now because of the CBA.
29. Josh and his camp feel his value is more than what the max in the CBA can offer him.
30. It could be that Josh would accept the max extension contract, but the Mavs have not offered it yet
31. I am not an attorney or expert to the CBA and DLORD is NOT as well. If he was he would not be a writer, he would be an attorney.
32. Every NBA groupie is just as persistent as yourself. Ever heard of cold shoulder? What about falling on death ears?
33. Far from stupid or old, but I guess you are catechized enough to say that? I would never listen to a loquacious person like yourself when you post like this. Never mind how I decide to post, I just post and hit the submit button. When did a message board become the cream of society for spell check? See your last post farther proved that for the most part philistinism is a common trait in many who have blasted me simply because my view point was different. Now go break that down, Mr. Pundit...

That pile of sheer lunacy was all by one person, in one thread. One. There are so many factual errors and just stupid things said in there, you cant even begin to discuss them. And that's just a partial list.

And you think everyone should have stopped and tried to engage in some sort of serious hoops discussion with him, or considered his words as having some merit, when mixed in the middle of such a pile of manure?

You yourself tried to dig him out of his hole, and as soon as you turned your back, he had dug himself an even deeper one with DLord and others.

I'm sorry, but at some point when dealing with this type, all you can do is just take a step back and start laughing at the sheer folly.

Can't be said enough. Nice work.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Nothing you say or do will cause me to change my mind on MY statement. There is no right or wrong in my statement. It is my view point. If you think other wise, just state your view point. It is as simple as that.

Lastly, whenever I post my view point you seem to show up on my reputation with a negative. Face it, this is not a right or wrong discussion with my view point.

This is becoming painfully obvious and you are tiresome.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with your "reputation" as I've given you 1, count them 1 neg rep. You may be delusional as well as ridiculous.

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by dude1394

This is becoming painfully obvious and you are tiresome.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with your "reputation" as I've given you 1, count them 1 neg rep. You may be delusional as well as ridiculous.

He can't escape his DNA dude.