Kidd now calling the shots for Mavericks on offense

[HexNBA]

Kidd now calling the shots for Mavericks on offense

11:20 PM CST on Saturday, January 31, 2009

MIAMI – Jason Kidd is at his best with the ball in his hands and his mind engaged.

Rick Carlisle has made sure that will happen.

Carlisle let it be known after the win over Miami that he no longer calls the majority of the plays. The Mavericks coach met with Kidd earlier in the week and told the point guard to take over. Carlisle then handed Kidd a CD with the plays he had been calling and how efficient the players were in those sets.

There has been a noticeable offensive improvement in the two games Kidd has called.

"I think I have a pretty good feel of where we need to get the ball," Kidd said. "The big thing is have everyone understand what we're running.

"Now, nobody has to look over and figure out what we're running. We've tried to eliminate some of the steps of the process and just play."

Several players estimate that Carlisle called 70 to 80 percent of the plays in the first three months of the season and Kidd took the rest. That ratio has been reversed the last two games.

"He's orchestrating what goes on, and I'll help out a little bit here and there," Carlisle said. "He's doing a great job of leading the guys who are out there on the court. We really need him in that role as a leader, as a guy calling the shots out there."

[kg_veteran]

I am going to be really interested to track this development and its impact on the team's offensive efficiency (and overall record).

[jthig32]

Man, that is interesting.

I tell you what, I haven't been happy with everything Carlisle had done this season, but you have to be impressed with his willingness to adjust and change. He was known as a control freak earlier in his career and he's proven that he's willing to learn and adjust to his team.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Man, that is interesting.

I tell you what, I haven't been happy with everything Carlisle had done this season, but you have to be impressed with his willingness to adjust and change. He was known as a control freak earlier in his career and he's proven that he's willing to learn and adjust to his team .

Something Avery wasn't and will never be able to manage.

[Robillion]

If you watched the past couple of games it is so obvious the great impact that Kidd brings to the game while on the court.... yet I am still seeing people just look at the box score it seems at the end of the game and yell for his head on the trade block.

[Flacolaco]

I'm of the opinion that the teams biggest problem against good teams is defense, but still, that makes me a little excited to read that.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Something Avery wasn't and will never be able to manage.

Stop the Avery bashing! Like I said, Carlisle is no different than Avery, except RC has a shorter rope around him since he has not proven to do anything with the Mavs. Avery got away with stuff because of his success in the past with the Mavs. I dont call it a willing to adjust, I call it being smart and seeing that he is doing nothing for the Mavs, and that Kidd is a better option.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Stop the Avery bashing! Like I said, Carlisle is no different than Avery, except RC has a shorter rope around him since he has not proven to do anything with the Mavs. Avery got away with stuff because of his success in the past with the Mavs. I dont call it a willing to adjust, I call it being smart and seeing that he is doing nothing for the Mavs, and that Kidd is a better option.

You know, once you decide on something, you are completely unwilling to look objectively at facts. You simply have your position and you twist the facts to fit your opinion.

I've already admitted I gave Avery more blame than he deserved last year. But no one can deny that Avery would never, ever have done this while coaching the Mavs. Hell we got a reminder in print today that Avery was so much of a control freak that Holger felt he had to stay away.

Carlisle is very, very different than Avery. He's (so far) not getting better results, but that's more an enlightenment of the makeup of this roster than it is an indictment of Carlisle.

[tcat075]

I like this move. Good idea, Carlisle.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You know, once you decide on something, you are completely unwilling to look objectively at facts. You simply have your position and you twist the facts to fit your opinion.

I've already admitted I gave Avery more blame than he deserved last year. But no one can deny that Avery would never, ever have done this while coaching the Mavs. Hell we got a reminder in print today that Avery was so much of a control freak that Holger felt he had to stay away.

Carlisle is very, very different than Avery. He's (so far) not getting better results, but that's more an enlightenment of the makeup of this roster than it is an indictment of Carlisle.

#1 I was not talking to you, so you are unwilling to look at my post to see that I was talking to that other poster.

#2 It is silly to assume Avery would "NEVER" change something, because I saw him change alot of things, but giving Harris more rope was not one of them.

#3 I can find as many articles on Carlisle being a control freak like you can find on Avery. I dont know why you dont see they are alot alike. It is clear on his moves just for these few games he has been coaching.

#4. Please dont give Carlisle an excuse because of the roster, because that is just sad. The Mavs are who they are. We suck under Carlisle after everyone was going to quit on Avery. Even a new coach has not done better, even after assuring Dirk and Cuban he would let Dirk do whatever he likes.

Lastly, my problem is the part from that poster that said Avery would never change. I just think that is extreme and just a reason to bash Avery. There was no reason to being bash Avery on this. It seems that some just go out there way to bash Avery for things that are wrong now. I am saying get over Avery, and whatever happens now is on Carlisle, Cuban, Donnie and the players.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

#2 It is silly to assume Avery would "NEVER" change something, because I saw him change alot of things, but giving Harris more rope was not one of them.

#3 I can find as many articles on Carlisle being a control freak like you can find on Avery. I dont know why you dont see they are alot alike. It is clear on his moves just for these few games he has been coaching.

#4. Please dont give Carlisle an excuse because of the roster, because that is just sad. The Mavs are who they are. We suck under Carlisle after everyone was going to quit on Avery. Even a new coach has not done better, even after assuring Dirk and Cuban he would let Dirk do whatever he likes.

The Dallas Mavericks disagree with you...

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You know, once you decide on something, you are completely unwilling to look objectively at facts. You simply have your position and you twist the facts to fit your opinion.

I've already admitted I gave Avery more blame than he deserved last year. But no one can deny that Avery would never, ever have done this while coaching the Mavs. Hell we got a reminder in print today that Avery was so much of a control freak that Holger felt he had to stay away.

Carlisle is very, very different than Avery. He's (so far) not getting better results, but that's more an enlightenment of the makeup of this roster than it is an indictment of Carlisle.

That's what I meant. Maybe I bashed Avery a little bit too much last year, granted. But IMO nobody can deny that Avery was a pure control freak and he would never let Kidd run the show almost on his own with just a few calls from the bench. I think, Kidd is such a player with an incredible court vision and you have to let him make the calls to use his full potential. Yes, he's on the decline due to his age and not as fast as he was in his prime, but he's still a very good point guard.

Carlisle is different than Avery. He accepts to let Kidd being Kidd without having so much control from the bench. That benefits the team. Okay, the results are (so far) not much better, but I'm curious how it will develop throughout the next months. If there is a trade as well before the deadline, it will be a really interesting second part of the season.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Stop the Avery bashing! Like I said, Carlisle is no different than Avery, except RC has a shorter rope around him since he has not proven to do anything with the Mavs. Avery got away with stuff because of his success in the past with the Mavs. I dont call it a willing to adjust, I call it being smart and seeing that he is doing nothing for the Mavs, and that Kidd is a better option.

I've pooped out turds that were better able to make basketball adjustments than Avery Johnson.

[Triple T's]

... sometimes realizing that there is a better option than your own is a sign of a good leader.

It's called a season for a reason morons ... sometimes you start off well based on continued success from the previous year, sometimes you have chemistry issues and rotational problems, but it only matters once the playoffs start. And what i see, is a coach willing to adjust to his players despite whatever formula hes used in the past. Now that's impressive.

[alby]

Carlisle > Avery

[endrity]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'm of the opinion that the teams biggest problem against good teams is defense, but still, that makes me a little excited to read that.

Very true, and Kidd getting burned consistently against any PG with some quickness is a good reason why.

Kidd is still a smart player, who once in a while will put out a play that only geniuses can, but after a year being with the Mavs, his numbers, the Mavs record, tell a clear story. Kidd is very faint shadow of what he used to be, and there is no reason to be apologists about that. The Mavs might not have been a contender with Harris this season, but they would have been better. I don't want to re-open the whole debate, but while it's pointless debating with people who only want to bash the FO for the trade, it's just as worthless to debate with people who are extreme apologists.

Kidd is what he is at this point, I have seen it for one whole year. He doesn't work as the team hoped he would. That's it. There is nothing that is going to change that. The Mavs have to look elsewhere from upgrades cause we ain't gettin 03 Kidd back anytime soon.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by endrity

Very true, and Kidd getting burned consistently against any PG with some quickness is a good reason why.

Kidd is still a smart player, who once in a while will put out a play that only geniuses can, but after a year being with the Mavs, his numbers, the Mavs record, tell a clear story. Kidd is very faint shadow of what he used to be, and there is no reason to be apologists about that. The Mavs might not have been a contender with Harris this season, but they would have been better. I don't want to re-open the whole debate, but while it's pointless debating with people who only want to bash the FO for the trade, it's just as worthless to debate with people who are extreme apologists.

Kidd gets burned far, far less often on defense than most of the rest of the roster. The only guy who has really given him consistent trouble is CP3, and CP3 owns the hell out of Devin too.

I've got to wonder if you actually watch the games, or if you just sit there and try to turn everything that happens into a "what would that have looked like with Devin Harris" hypothetical.

[endrity]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Kidd gets burned far, far less often on defense than most of the rest of the roster. The only guy who has really given him consistent trouble is CP3, and CP3 owns the hell out of Devin too.

I've got to wonder if you actually watch the games, or if you just sit there and try to turn everything that happens into a "what would that have looked like with Devin Harris" hypothetical.

Ramon Sessions and Rajon Rando say hello from last week!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by endrity

Ramon Sessions and Rajon Rando say hello from last week!

If you could point me to the place where I said, "Nobody ever beats Kidd on D," I'd really appreciate it. The point is that he D's up better than most of our team, despite his age which you so incessantly hammer.

By the by, Andre Miller had 19/7/7 last night against Harris. I guess he's old and slow too.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'm of the opinion that the teams biggest problem against good teams is defense, but still, that makes me a little excited to read that.

I agree on that, but if our offense can be more creative and diverse it can help in efficiency and help our defense.

endrity - I think Kidd is fine, but I stick with the point that we put too much on his plate...mainly the defense. He is a savvy defender and a good off the ball defender, but to give him the control on offense and on top of that make him guard the toughest wing player on defense is too much. Who else is really going to guard them? I would do what they did with Wade: send out Wright, then George, maybe sprinkling in some Kidd or go with Josh.

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Stop the Avery bashing! Like I said, Carlisle is no different than Avery, except RC has a shorter rope around him since he has not proven to do anything with the Mavs. Avery got away with stuff because of his success in the past with the Mavs. I dont call it a willing to adjust, I call it being smart and seeing that he is doing nothing for the Mavs, and that Kidd is a better option.

What?

Under Avery this year would this stuff happen?

-Would Green and/or Singleton have gotten the minutes they've gotten so far?

-Would Stack be playing in more games than he has now?

-Would George be playing/starting the games Wright has started?

-Would he say "I'm giving the play-calling control to _____."

Carlisle does have some Avery tendencies, but he is much more creative on offense and more open-minded to what his players suggest.

[endrity]

I agree BG, Kidd doesn't have the legs he used to.

And Dub, Harris barely plays any defense nowadays. Would he get beat here as well? Ofcourse. But against quicker PGs he would have been better. It's not that I don't appreciate the plays that Kidd produces at times, it's just that I disagree with the people that still hold on to the belief that Kidd can be a huge difference maker for this team. Against the top teams his limitations are clear, their organized defense reduces Kidd to a liability, and teams that are not sloppy with the ball don't give him the chances to play the passing lanes the way Kidd wants to. Harris is today a better player, and with him we probably weren't going to win the west. With Kidd, definetely not.

I just want Mav fans to get over the idea that somehow we have a true star running our team. We don't. This is not 03. Kidd today is a nice player at best.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by endrity

I agree BG, Kidd doesn't have the legs he used to.

And Dub, Harris barely plays any defense nowadays. Would he get beat here as well? Ofcourse. But against quicker PGs he would have been better. It's not that I don't appreciate the plays that Kidd produces at times, it's just that I disagree with the people that still hold on to the belief that Kidd can be a huge difference maker for this team. Against the top teams his limitations are clear, their organized defense reduces Kidd to a liability, and teams that are not sloppy with the ball don't give him the chances to play the passing lanes the way Kidd wants to. Harris is today a better player, and with him we probably weren't going to win the west. With Kidd, definetely not.

I just want Mav fans to get over the idea that somehow we have a true star running our team. We don't. This is not 03. Kidd today is a nice player at best.

Aye, aye, aye

Just b/c Devin is quicker he'll put up a better fight but still not play any defense and get burned? How is that better than what Kidd does?

If we weren't going to win with Devin why should we have stuck with him? I'll say without hesitation that Devin is a better scoring and can get to the lane better, but that's about all I'll say with confidence that he does better than Kidd...maybe get hurt more frequently.

Passer, rebounder, defender, leader: all of it
Kidd > Devin

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Aye, aye, aye

Just b/c Devin is quicker he'll put up a better fight but still not play any defense and get burned? How is that better than what Kidd does?

If we weren't going to win with Devin why should we have stuck with him? I'll say without hesitation that Devin is a better scoring and can get to the lane better, but that's about all I'll say with confidence that he does better than Kidd...maybe get hurt more frequently.

Passer, rebounder, defender, leader: all of it
Kidd > Devin

and that is why I love Jason Kidd here. If you cannot see the impact he does for this team than you are blind. .. 2nd in the league in steals as well? C'mon who really is a better all around defensive player on our team? Maybe George beats him on 1v1, Wright on the perimeter, but overall I see Kidd as the guy that forces the most stops for us and turnovers. Unlike many here... I did not expect Kidd to come here and shoot the lights out, I expected him to come in here and do what he does, and he has done that as much as he can in this system and with these players. With another run and gun guy or a good athletic big guy, and more control of the offense. That is when you see Kidd at his finest. He had something relative to that with the Nets. Hopefully, with Carlisle's further adjustment to Kidd, I see him continue to do great things for this team.. and by great things I mean make it easier for everyone else on this team like he has done over the past couple games. If Kidd scores 30 one night, he isnt doing his job in my eye. That will never be consistent and will only throw everyone else out of wack. Kidd needs to be Kidd and that's it.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If you could point me to the place where I said, "Nobody ever beats Kidd on D," I'd really appreciate it. The point is that he D's up better than most of our team, despite his age which you so incessantly hammer.

By the by, Andre Miller had 19/7/7 last night against Harris. I guess he's old and slow too.

The Nets came back down by 12 with only 2 minutes left in the fourth quarter... I think they can live with Andre Miller's stat line. Harris contributed to that comeback with a three pointer and a block (when it mattered), while Carter went down with an ankle injury . He's an all-star, Harris and Kidd are apples and oranges at this point.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

The Nets came back down by 12 with only 2 minutes left in the fourth quarter... I think they can live with Andre Miller's stat line. Harris contributed to that comeback with a three pointer and a block (when it mattered), while Carter went down with an ankle injury . He's an all-star, Harris and Kidd are apples and oranges at this point.

They have always been apples and oranges which is why people should shut up about it already. They don't have a similar game in the least. In fact, I cannot think off of the top of my head two players who are more unalike.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Robillion

and that is why I love Jason Kidd here. If you cannot see the impact he does for this team than you are blind. .. 2nd in the league in steals as well? C'mon who really is a better all around defensive player on our team? Maybe George beats him on 1v1, Wright on the perimeter, but overall I see Kidd as the guy that forces the most stops for us and turnovers. Unlike many here... I did not expect Kidd to come here and shoot the lights out, I expected him to come in here and do what he does, and he has done that as much as he can in this system and with these players. With another run and gun guy or a good athletic big guy, and more control of the offense. That is when you see Kidd at his finest. He had something relative to that with the Nets. Hopefully, with Carlisle's further adjustment to Kidd, I see him continue to do great things for this team.. and by great things I mean make it easier for everyone else on this team like he has done over the past couple games. If Kidd scores 30 one night, he isnt doing his job in my eye. That will never be consistent and will only throw everyone else out of wack. Kidd needs to be Kidd and that's it.

I agree.

Even the bad assumption with Kidd, overly creative and leading to sloppy turnovers isn't terrible. Yeah, it sucks when he turns it over but part of the time the passes are just slightly off or the guys flat out aren't ready for them. And as a whole, this team is pretty good at minimizing turnovers.

With scoring, I just don't want him to hesitate which is probably hard for him to do. If you're wide open, take it and live with the result. We can use the extra scoring, but we just need Kidd to open things up for everyone else.

[Triple T's]

Kidd, even at this age, is still better than most point guards in the NBA.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

The Nets came back down by 12 with only 2 minutes left in the fourth quarter... I think they can live with Andre Miller's stat line. Harris contributed to that comeback with a three pointer and a block (when it mattered), while Carter went down with an ankle injury . He's an all-star, Harris and Kidd are apples and oranges at this point.

You completely misrepresented my point here. It's not about who can live with what, and it's not even about Harris v. Kidd. I was pointing out the boneheaded logical fallacy in saying that Kidd must be old and slow on defense because player X and player Y had a good night against him. Plenty of players have had great nights against Devin, and there isn't an intelligent basketball fan on the planet who thinks Devin is old or slow.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by endrity

I agree BG, Kidd doesn't have the legs he used to.

And Dub, Harris barely plays any defense nowadays. Would he get beat here as well? Ofcourse. But against quicker PGs he would have been better. It's not that I don't appreciate the plays that Kidd produces at times, it's just that I disagree with the people that still hold on to the belief that Kidd can be a huge difference maker for this team. Against the top teams his limitations are clear, their organized defense reduces Kidd to a liability, and teams that are not sloppy with the ball don't give him the chances to play the passing lanes the way Kidd wants to. Harris is today a better player, and with him we probably weren't going to win the west. With Kidd, definetely not.

I just want Mav fans to get over the idea that somehow we have a true star running our team. We don't. This is not 03. Kidd today is a nice player at best.

I've yet to hear a person that thinks Kidd is still elite. And yet, I'll have to vehemently disagree with you and say I don't think Devin is any better of a player overall. A better scorer and penetrator, to be sure, but there are about 5-6 other things that Kidd is much better at.

[tcat075]

I agree with the person who said Harris and Kidd are apples and oranges. Completely right. I mean, they are two completely different players. Its hard to compare them. I'm going to try, though, but even this comparison doesn't do the two players justice.

Scoring: Harris
Rebounding: Kidd
Defense: Kidd
Passing: Kidd
Leadership: Kidd
Youth: Harris
Intangibles: Harris

According to that chart, Kidd is better 4-3.

But what if I broke the scoring into "Threes", "Jumpers" and "Driving"? Then it would be Harris 5-4...

And how much higher is Kidd on passing than Harris? How much lower is Kidd on scoring than Devin? If Harris is just a little worse on everything than Kidd except scoring, which he's a ton better at, obviously Harris is better.

Really, this is how I'd break it down: Is Kidd's rebounding, passing and leadership better than Harris's scoring and potential?

And then we get into the "Well, how much more room does Harris have to grow?" or "Is Kidd's leadership as good as we think it is?" or "Is Harris's passing all that much worse than Kidd?" or "What about smarts?" or a myriad other questions.

IMO, its an unanswerable question...

[ghazi]

Well, the early results of this have been pretty good. The Mavs offensive efficiency against the Heat was 117.7, and 114.3 v the Warriors. To put this in perspective, the best offensive efficiency in the league is the Lakers at around 111.0. We won't be able to sustain those numbers obviously, but it's a good sign. But Orlando will be a better measuring stick than the Warriors and Heat defenses.

At the end of our day I think our defense is more of a problem than our offense. When we get stops it gets the transition game going, but we don't do that consistently enough.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

What?

Under Avery this year would this stuff happen?

-Would Green and/or Singleton have gotten the minutes they've gotten so far?

-Would Stack be playing in more games than he has now?

-Would George be playing/starting the games Wright has started?

-Would he say "I'm giving the play-calling control to _____."

Carlisle does have some Avery tendencies, but he is much more creative on offense and more open-minded to what his players suggest.

1. Neither one of us knows that answer, so I cant say so
2. Dont know, because if Stack is hurt, I am pretty sure Avery would have had him on the bench like he is now.
3. I think this is the season he would after such a disappointed season after getting Kidd. I feel one off-season with Kidd/Avery would have been alot better than the mid-season stuff.
4. Yes, Carlisle has alot of Avery tendencies, and being a control freak is one of them. I dont agree he is more creative on offense, because by the stats/numbers/record Avery had a more efficient team on offense and defense.

There have been many rumblings about how bad Carlisle is on offense, so I dont see giving him any praise on offense. As of matter of fact, with a full off-season with Kidd to the offense, RC has not shown me much of anything that warrants praise over Avery.

Yes, Avery was a control freak, and several players were not happy with him, but based on what I have seen from this season, I would say Avery was the least of the problems. I dont remember being this low on the Mavs since maybe 2000. I actually have zero expectations from this current team.

In the end, none of us can say if Avery would have changed or not, so I will give the benefit of doubt to a man with a 194-70 regular season record, a 67win season, and a Western Conference Championship.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You completely misrepresented my point here. It's not about who can live with what, and it's not even about Harris v. Kidd. I was pointing out the boneheaded logical fallacy in saying that Kidd must be old and slow on defense because player X and player Y had a good night against him. Plenty of players have had great nights against Devin, and there isn't an intelligent basketball fan on the planet who thinks Devin is old or slow.

You could have used a better example than a miracle comeback from the Nets in which Devin led the charge. He's been lit up plenty of times here and in NJ. I agree everyone gets scored on once in a while, you can pick any player in the league and find a game in which he let someone drop 30. That doesn't change the fact that people calling Kidd old and slow aren't wrong. Be honest, there isn't an intelligent basketball fan that would say Kidd is young or fast (in comparison to the average point guard in the league).

When it comes down to it, the real argument here is who the better defender is, Kidd or Harris. It's all relative. I don't think Kidd is nearly as bad as the media seems to suggest (he's just lost a step or four from what they remember, him in his glory days). Was he a better defender in his prime than Harris is now? Definitely. But again, apples and oranges. I would like him to focus on the offense because that, to me, is a point guards job. I accept that he won't be holding the elite guards in this league to 10 points any time soon, but he needs to stick with what he's still great at, and that's why this article is good news.

But it's still not enough for a championship run, they still need another piece. Clocks ticking.

[tsar]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Intangibles: Harris

Seriously now? Like what?

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by tsar

Seriously now? Like what?

Well, the main reason I put that is because Harris has a lot better chance of lighting up and scoring 50 than Kidd.

[monty55555]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Well, the main reason I put that is because Harris has a lot better chance of lighting up and scoring 50 than Kidd.

I agree with most of what you said about the differences between Kidd and Harris.

However, I don't think you should give the edge to Harris regarding the intangibles. And if your reasoning for that advantage would be that Harris has a bigger chance of scoring 50 than Kidd, I think that belongs in the "scoring" category.

Regarding the criterion "intangibles" though, in my opinion, I think a better measure would be decision making and basketball IQ of Kidd versus the decision making and basketball IQ of Harris.

Again, its all quite subjective. One may rate them differently and may see things differently.

[Murphy3]

Oops, just pooped another turd that's more capable of coaching basketball in the NBA than Avery Johnson... It's too bad I flushed it down the toilet. At least it probably could have gotten a job at ESPN.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

That doesn't change the fact that people calling Kidd old and slow aren't wrong.

Yes, they are wrong, at least about the slow part.

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Be honest, there isn't an intelligent basketball fan that would say Kidd is young or fast (in comparison to the average point guard in the league).

Doesn't matter. He's still a better defender than almost all of them.

[BGMaverick9]

Scoring and speed...that's about all I'll give Harris without question. The rest will go to Kidd.

[ghazi]

If before the Kidd trade I told you the Mavs would go 16-13 in the final 29 regular season games, you would be disgusted.

But what if I told you the Mavs margin of victory would increase from 4.8 (Mavs MoV 43 games into the season, time Devin went down) to 5.6, and 7.6 in games Dirk played? You would assume that would equate more wins, and assume that Kidd was an upgrade to the team.
I think there's a lot of hindsight. Anyone remember the problem last year? Dirk was out 5 games after the Kidd trade, and we lost 7 games inside the final minute. Our Pythagorean record was actually 56-26, which means we were simply "unlucky" in close games, unless you believe adding Kidd to the team hurt our ability to win games in the final minute, I personally don't buy that.

So from the simple standpoint of offensive and defensive possessions, which is basically what basketball comes down to, the Mavs actually improved. Thus, there is actually a legitimate case that the Mavs of 07-08 improved after the Kidd trade even though it wasn't reflected in wins and losses.

Now this year it's different. the Mavs margin of victory is hovering around 1.5 right now, but I don't think it's Kidd's fault as much as it is the defense regressing very badly, and Howard having his worst season in 4 years. Also, as great as Dirk has been this year, statistically it's one of his poorer shooting years in recent memory (true shooting %, + Dirk has ominously only shot 41% in the 4th quarter this year). Little things like these can be the difference between being 30-16 or 27-19.

The biggest issue with the Kidd trade was how much we gave up, but from a basketball standpoint, the Mavs regression is not solely attributable to the trade, if attributable at all.