Kidd now calling the shots for Mavericks on offense

[wmbwinn]

The biggest trade asset the Dallas Mavs have is probably Kidd's expiring contract.

I wonder if we are putting him on display to emphasize what he can do...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

#1 I was not talking to you, so you are unwilling to look at my post to see that I was talking to that other poster.

#2 It is silly to assume Avery would "NEVER" change something, because I saw him change alot of things, but giving Harris more rope was not one of them.

#3 I can find as many articles on Carlisle being a control freak like you can find on Avery. I dont know why you dont see they are alot alike. It is clear on his moves just for these few games he has been coaching.

#4. Please dont give Carlisle an excuse because of the roster, because that is just sad. The Mavs are who they are. We suck under Carlisle after everyone was going to quit on Avery. Even a new coach has not done better, even after assuring Dirk and Cuban he would let Dirk do whatever he likes.

Lastly, my problem is the part from that poster that said Avery would never change. I just think that is extreme and just a reason to bash Avery. There was no reason to being bash Avery on this. It seems that some just go out there way to bash Avery for things that are wrong now. I am saying get over Avery, and whatever happens now is on Carlisle, Cuban, Donnie and the players.

So because you weren't talking to me I can't respond? In the words of Ron Burgundy "That doesn't make sense".

Avery, towards the end, proved that he was pretty unwilling to take advice from anyone. His coaches grumbled about not having input, he cast off the input of Del Harris, Dirk's personal coach was asked not to come around, hell, didn't they also get rid of the team shrink? I think it's a damn safe bet that Avery would never, ever have given up play calling to Kidd.

I readily admit that Carlisle has had (deservedly) a reputation as a control freak in the past. And I'm sure that's his natural tendency. But we have a ton of evidence here that supports the notion that Carlisle is learning and changing. First of all, one of his assistant coaches is fully in charge of the defense. Secondly, he built an offense this off season that he hoped would get the best of out Kidd and others. When it became clear it wasn't working, he scrapped it. He gives players a chance to earn playing time, often riding with them if they are playing well. He recognized how poorly Stack was playing and sat his ass on the bench. And now he's given up play calling.

That's a lot of examples of Carlisle being flexible. And it's perfectly fair, based on his track record, to think that Avery would have done little, if any of those things were he still here.

Will Avery learn and grow and adjust as Carlisle seems to have? Time will tell. But I seriously doubt it would have happened with the Mavs.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by ghazi

If before the Kidd trade I told you the Mavs would go 16-13 in the final 29 regular season games, you would be disgusted.

But what if I told you the Mavs margin of victory would increase from 4.8 (Mavs MoV 43 games into the season, time Devin went down) to 5.6, and 7.6 in games Dirk played? You would assume that would equate more wins, and assume that Kidd was an upgrade to the team.
I think there's a lot of hindsight. Anyone remember the problem last year? Dirk was out 5 games after the Kidd trade, and we lost 7 games inside the final minute. Our Pythagorean record was actually 56-26, which means we were simply "unlucky" in close games, unless you believe adding Kidd to the team hurt our ability to win games in the final minute, I personally don't buy that.

So from the simple standpoint of offensive and defensive possessions, which is basically what basketball comes down to, the Mavs actually improved. Thus, there is actually a legitimate case that the Mavs of 07-08 improved after the Kidd trade even though it wasn't reflected in wins and losses.

Now this year it's different. the Mavs margin of victory is hovering around 1.5 right now, but I don't think it's Kidd's fault as much as it is the defense regressing very badly, and Howard having his worst season in 4 years. Also, as great as Dirk has been this year, statistically it's one of his poorer shooting years in recent memory (true shooting %, + Dirk has ominously only shot 41% in the 4th quarter this year). Little things like these can be the difference between being 30-16 or 27-19.

The biggest issue with the Kidd trade was how much we gave up, but from a basketball standpoint, the Mavs regression is not solely attributable to the trade, if attributable at all.

It is attributable to the trade, that or the collective aging of the Mavericks... but I wouldn't put too much weight into that one. That's the only major move we made between our 67 win team and what we have now. I don't care what the argument is, blowing up a 67 win team has to be one of the worst moves of the decade. No other team improved so drastically we had to blow up anything (except the Lakers, but that's still a knee jerk we didn't even see how we matched up against them before the trade).

The roster was fine, it got us to the finals and depending on how you feel about the issue, it could have easily won us the finals... not to mention the simple bad luck of running into one of the few teams we actually had a losing record against in the first round of the playoffs the following year. The only thing that needed to change was the coaching, and that's why I wouldn't blame a single Mavs fan for eternally hating Avery.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by alby

Carlisle > Avery

Based on what? Please explain how Carlisle is a better coach than Avery.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Based on what? Please explain how Carlisle is a better coach than Avery.

Post #42 works for an explanation.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So because you weren't talking to me I can't respond? In the words of Ron Burgundy "That doesn't make sense".

Avery, towards the end, proved that he was pretty unwilling to take advice from anyone. His coaches grumbled about not having input, he cast off the input of Del Harris, Dirk's personal coach was asked not to come around, hell, didn't they also get rid of the team shrink? I think it's a damn safe bet that Avery would never, ever have given up play calling to Kidd.

I readily admit that Carlisle has had (deservedly) a reputation as a control freak in the past. And I'm sure that's his natural tendency. But we have a ton of evidence here that supports the notion that Carlisle is learning and changing. First of all, one of his assistant coaches is fully in charge of the defense. Secondly, he built an offense this off season that he hoped would get the best of out Kidd and others. When it became clear it wasn't working, he scrapped it. He gives players a chance to earn playing time, often riding with them if they are playing well. He recognized how poorly Stack was playing and sat his ass on the bench. And now he's given up play calling.

That's a lot of examples of Carlisle being flexible. And it's perfectly fair, based on his track record, to think that Avery would have done little, if any of those things were he still here.

Will Avery learn and grow and adjust as Carlisle seems to have? Time will tell. But I seriously doubt it would have happened with the Mavs.

I did not hear about the other coaches that grumbled. Do you have a link to support this? Also where did you hear that Avery did not want to hear from Del Harris? Could you provide proof of that?

As far as Dirk coach, I would ask him to leave as well based on reports that guy bashed Avery in the German news. I would tell him to get the fuc* out of my area as well.

I have not seen Carlisle change anything other than change from what he said he was going to do before Cuban hired him, Now, a change that we see now, is that he is finally letting Kid handle the offense. Why did this not happen from Day 1, when he made the big comment on Kidd running things to get the job? Carlisle reminds alot of people of Avery, and I think Avery is alot better coach than Carlisle, case in point just about every stat we could put up about coaches.

I think Avery can and will change, but the fact remains that you cant argue with success, and Avery had alot of success, so that meant what he did worked. I cant fault Avery about that, because he can show proof by wins/loses. Now, after this season, I do believe Avery would have adjusted based on he could not argue that success mess as much because you are what your record says you are. I truly believe that about Avery. Now, I also agree that we should have fired Avery, based on how the players felt about Avery. But, I cant see how Carlisle is a better coach than Avery at all.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Post #42 works for an explanation.

Post #42 does not work for most people at all. That explanation does NOT mean Carlise is a better coach than Avery. All that was just opinions from him. If I go back on the past and what players/coaches/fans/media has said about Carlisle, I would call the explanation a bold faced lie. You measure coaches first and foremost by wins/loses, and clearly Avery is the better coach. Clearly both are micro-managers in the past as well, and for 1/2 of this season Carlisle has been the same ole micro-manager as in the past. As well as been the same ole coach to sit his young talented players (Green), also all that talk from Carlisle about letting Kidd have all the freedom he wants was a lie as well, up until now.

[BGMaverick9]

What was Avery's playoff record? If you're willing to claim success for the regular season record, take the bad with the playoffs.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/full...id=862&yr=2009
DEL’S DEPARTURE: You first read about Del Harris’ semi-retirement a year ago in this space. Now know this: Del sits in a luxury suite at Mavs games and serves as a consultant to the owner in large part because Avery forcefully decided he no longer needed the once-valued guidance of the man the inexperienced coach used to refer to as “Professor.’’

That's the first thing I could find on that.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

What was Avery's playoff record? If you're willing to claim success for the regular season record, take the bad with the playoffs.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/full...id=862&yr=2009
DEL’S DEPARTURE: You first read about Del Harris’ semi-retirement a year ago in this space. Now know this: Del sits in a luxury suite at Mavs games and serves as a consultant to the owner in large part because Avery forcefully decided he no longer needed the once-valued guidance of the man the inexperienced coach used to refer to as “Professor.’’

That's the first thing I could find on that.

How about take the bad with the bad with Carlisle: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...arliri01c.html

Dont tell me you call that a source article?

[BGMaverick9]

I didn't claim Carlisle to be a messiah. But you failed to mentioned Avery's playoff record, I have no problem with you putting Carlisle's record up there. You have to take all the records into account for Avery, playoffs included.

You wanted a link, I gave you one...I'm sure there is more out there.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I didn't claim Carlisle to be a messiah. But you failed to mentioned Avery's playoff record, I have no problem with you putting Carlisle's record up there. You have to take all the records into account for Avery, playoffs included.

You wanted a link, I gave you one...I'm sure there is more out there.

No, you claimed Carlisle was a better coach. See how you change your tune when I counter your post by posting Carlisle playoff record as well that is once again worse than Avery. As we see, Avery has a much better regular season record, and one of the best regular records in the NBA history as Carlisle barely has a .500 regular season record and under .500 playoff record. It is not even close in that Avery is a better coach than Carlisle. Thats the whole point I am making on this with you.

As far as link, that was not a source to show that Avery did not want to listen to Harris. Unless Harris or Avery said it, then there is no proof, just like when I hear the rumor mill about something, and some posters here discount it because it did not come from the direct source. I apply that same thing to your link and source.

[Silk Smoov]

Is Rick Carlisle really a good fit?
2:33 PM Sat, May 03, 2008
Tim MacMahon

Dirk wants a coach who will "open up the offense a lot more, run."

Rick Carlisle is the front-runner to replace Avery Johnson.

I'm now sure how exactly those two facts are related. Carlisle has been a successful head coach -- two 50-win seasons before a surprising firing in Detroit and 61 wins the next year in Indiana -- but his teams have never been elite offensively.

Basketball-reference.com has an offensive rating system. Carlisle's best team, the 2003-04 Pacers, ranked ninth. His last three Pacers teams ranked in the bottom third of the league, with the '06-07 Indiana squad at dead last.

Carlisle is an outstanding defensive coach. But is he the guy who can get the best out of Dirk and Jason Kidd? The evidence suggests otherwise.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I give you more evidence that Carlisle is NOT a better coach than Avery? Even after everyone not liking Avery on offense, we can go to many stats to show the Mavs offense was very efficient all the years under Avery. We cant say anything remote about Carlisle, and he was suppose to be the offensive savior for the Mavs?

[Silk Smoov]

Another great Carlisle Article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...llas-mavericks

Rick Carlisle is the wrong man for the Dallas Mavericks if they want to build for the future.

During his head coaching tenure in Detroit and Indiana, he took both up and coming teams to the conference finals. He even led Indy to the best record in the NBA once.

But he was tossed out the door in both stops. Once, so Larry Brown could win a title with Detroit, and second, so Indiana could move past the brawl with the Pistons.

So, he's presided over a team that couldn't get to the finals until he moved on, while he coached another that was a train wreck with a bunch of headcases.

So what does he have in Dallas?

A team not good enough to get to the Finals? Check.

A team full of headcases? Check.

So is Carlisle any better than Avery Johnson?

Probably not, but he's different, which is why he just might work out.

Rick Carlisle's coaching resume has some eery similarities to Avery Johnson's. With the "good but not good enough" teams, to the players seeming to tune him out at the end.

Fans of the Pacers and the Mavericks both watched teams quit on these two coaches at the end of their tenures with the teams.

However, in Carlisle's defense (and Avery's for that matter), in his first two years with his teams, he took them to the upper echelon of the NBA.

Rick Carlisle can turn a team around.

That being said, I didn't want Rick Carlisle.

Right now, I think the team is really behind the eight ball with their personnel: Josh Howard is a mess and has little trade value right now. Jason Kidd is another mess with an expiring contract. Jason Terry is doing well but has a bad contract.

Erick Dampier (nevermind), and the role players are all unsigned.

Dirk Nowitzki and Brandon Bass are really the only contributors who are playing at or above the level of their contracts.

The Mavericks also have no first round pick in two of the next three years.

So how will the Carlisle experiment work out?

Probably better than I actually want it to.

Dirk Nowitzki, who spent an hour talking to Carlisle about post play in his interview (what the heck?), will probably gain a little new life being barked at by someone else.

Maybe Josh Howard will benefit from a coach who is thankful that he's not Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest, and start to play like an All-Star again.

Maybe Jason Kidd will benefit from being away from the "Little General".

Maybe Mark Cuban can get creative with the salary cap and get an athletic swingman in Dallas.

Maybe this will work, at least for next year.

Maybe the Mavericks will get back to the Conference Finals.

Then, these same guys (minus Jason Kidd most likely) will tire of Rick Carlisle, and Dirk will call Mark Cuban to find someone who fits his style more again.

The Mavericks will dump Carlisle, and start building for the future with a then 32- year-old, Nowitzki, and without a first round pick.

Then, I think Mark Cuban will finally choose the coach we all wanted this year: Donnie Nelson. Yep, you got it, another Nellie coaching the Mavs.

Maybe then Cuban won't trade Dirk to the Suns because he's getting too old.

[chumdawg]

That was a dumb article. Dampier is unsigned? What the hell?

[DirkFTW]

Maybe RC being RC is enough for him to be the "savior"? RC doing a 180 in terms of play-calling -AND- deferring to his players in the process is a world away from our recollections of Avery.
---------------
Full-Frontal Avery
A Naked Truth About Teams' Disinterest
Mike Fisher -- DB.com
May 17 2008
...
We were long ago tipped to one of the reasons Kerr might have that view of Avery as a coach non grata: Steve Nash has a voice in that organization, just as Dirk Nowitzki has a voice in Dallas. Nash and Nowitzki are best friends who listen to each others’ voices. So when Nash is pitching in by doing his due diligence on coaching candidates, and he calls Dirk to find out what went down in Dallas. … well, you get the picture.

And then there are X’s-and-O’s issues, and matters of “fit.’’

But there might be another reason.

According to the lore (and it seems most people inside the NBA know it, and chuckle about it), the year was 2000. Avery Johnson was a season removed from his finest moment, hitting that game-winning shot to help the Robinson/Duncan Spurs to a title. He will always get credit for being a vocal and inspirational leader of that team, but. …

“This is MY team! This is MY team!’’ Avery squawked as he marched through the visitors’ locker room in Cleveland wearing nothing but a towel and too much pride. “This is MY team!’’

He wasn’t really saying it to anyone. No one was really listening. It was, maybe, like Denzel Washington’s crooked cop at the end of “Training Day,’’ a defeated Alonzo Harris theatrically howling at the neighborhood that had finally endured enough of his sociopathic bullying.

Some would argue that Avery was simply flexing a familiar muscle, that using his emotion and his voice in that manner was commonplace and acceptable – certainly acceptable to coach Gregg Popovich, who’d anointed Avery as the admittedly effective surrogate eyes and ears (and mouth) of his roster.

Others say Avery kind of snapped, maybe responding to the realization that making that shot in the NBA Finals game was his pinnacle as a player, and that there was no place to go but down.
...
Whatever the motivation, a certain group – and by that we mean most of the Spurs players in that locker room that night in Cleveland not named David Robinson – had grown tired of Avery’s chest-thumping, ghetto-preaching, ego-pumping pin-and-needling, “This-Is-MY-Team’’ing form of leadership.

Next thing you know, Malik Rose dogpiled Avery Johnson. They fought. In the locker room. Naked.

Avery was fighting to represent himself. Malik pretty much represented everybody else.

“At the end, they all wanted him out of there,’’ says one NBA lifer who counts himself as a friend of Avery’s. “He grated on them. Bad. It was a matter of time before somebody finally shut him up.’’
...
Link

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

It is attributable to the trade, that or the collective aging of the Mavericks... but I wouldn't put too much weight into that one. That's the only major move we made between our 67 win team and what we have now. I don't care what the argument is, blowing up a 67 win team has to be one of the worst moves of the decade. No other team improved so drastically we had to blow up anything (except the Lakers, but that's still a knee jerk we didn't even see how we matched up against them before the trade).

The roster was fine, it got us to the finals and depending on how you feel about the issue, it could have easily won us the finals... not to mention the simple bad luck of running into one of the few teams we actually had a losing record against in the first round of the playoffs the following year. The only thing that needed to change was the coaching, and that's why I wouldn't blame a single Mavs fan for eternally hating Avery.

The league IMO is much more difficult now than it was in 06-07. Great players are no longer dispersed amongst mediocre rosters as much as was the case back then. Dwight Howard Lebron James Chris Paul and Brandon Roy have emerged, Garnett/Pierce/Allen are no longer on bad teams but are the makeup of an elite team, Kobe Bryant finally has a roster, the Spurs are the same, the Suns/Pistons have regressed.... but overall, I think the talent level of the NBA has picked up in the past few years, our roster hasn't experienced DRASTIC change, the NBA seems to have caught up with us. One more thing, as great as Dirk is this year, he is no longer in his "absolute prime". 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 were Dirk's best years IMO.

I think the 05-06 and 06-07 Mavs team would not be as good as today's Cavs, today's Celtics, and today's Lakers.

[horse900703]

he should!

[fluid.forty.one]

This, plus the locker room spark from DA, gave us a couple really quality wins!

[purplefrog]

I have to admit that I was a bit surprised Carlisle was calling 70-80% of the plays.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That was a dumb article. Dampier is unsigned? What the hell?

Ninety percent of the stuff on Bleacher Report is absolutely inane, which is the downfall of any site that allows fan journalism. I wouldn't be surprised if Silk himself wrote that article (well, if not for the fact that it's actually somewhat readable in a formalistic sense).

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ninety percent of the stuff on Bleacher Report is absolutely inane, which is the downfall of any site that allows fan journalism. I wouldn't be surprised if Silk himself wrote that article (well, if not for the fact that it's actually somewhat readable in a formalistic sense).

I have to admit, you were a wasted sperm. Every time your Mr.KnowItAll self speak, it reminds me to "Never argue with an idiot. They pull you down to their level, then beat you with experience".

[BGMaverick9]

I'm not going to change my tune because I don't need to totally base my argument over statistics/records. Nothing was suggested from anyone that Avery would change based on what happened in the end for him. It was HIS "system." It was his full-proof system and it was his way or the highway. Avery can clearly change but I really doubt that it would've happened here. He lost pretty much everyone in the lockeroom and that will signal your end. Success went to his head and he never really grew from it.

Carlisle does have a similar style to Avery but with a big difference, adaptability. He recognized he was coaching better talent than he was in Indiana and he needed to change his style. His style hasn't really worked, so what is he doing? He is changing it and giving Kidd more control. He said from the word go that Kidd was still a good PG and can run the team from the floor. The only gripe I can see on that is that it took too long to switch...but at least he made the switch.

I remember an article in the DMN where Wright was talking in the preseason on how Carlisle really was getting in Wright's ear about what he needed to do and what he could bring to the roster. He mentioned that the attention and care was nice and that he really didn't get that from Avery. It's just another example of how Carlisle is different.

How is having an assistant take control of the defensive aspect of the team and giving your PG more control micromanagement? Avery wanted every title he could possibly have, including the team shrink.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I have to admit that I was a bit surprised Carlisle was calling 70-80% of the plays.

Come on now, his track record dictates this was going to be the case. He said all the right things to Dirk and Cuban and came in and was the same micro-manager and horrible offensive guy he has been in the past. His offense was ranked last in the NBA the last season he coached. No surprises here, except people will go crazy and make him Mr.Savior now that he has dropped those duties to Kidd, so Kidd can take the rap if it does not work.

[kg_veteran]

Clearly, Carlisle is just looking for a scapegoat. He couldn't be trying to win more often, or anything like that.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I did not hear about the other coaches that grumbled. Do you have a link to support this? Also where did you hear that Avery did not want to hear from Del Harris? Could you provide proof of that?

As far as Dirk coach, I would ask him to leave as well based on reports that guy bashed Avery in the German news. I would tell him to get the fuc* out of my area as well.

I have not seen Carlisle change anything other than change from what he said he was going to do before Cuban hired him, Now, a change that we see now, is that he is finally letting Kid handle the offense. Why did this not happen from Day 1, when he made the big comment on Kidd running things to get the job? Carlisle reminds alot of people of Avery, and I think Avery is alot better coach than Carlisle, case in point just about every stat we could put up about coaches.

I think Avery can and will change, but the fact remains that you cant argue with success, and Avery had alot of success, so that meant what he did worked. I cant fault Avery about that, because he can show proof by wins/loses. Now, after this season, I do believe Avery would have adjusted based on he could not argue that success mess as much because you are what your record says you are. I truly believe that about Avery. Now, I also agree that we should have fired Avery, based on how the players felt about Avery. But, I cant see how Carlisle is a better coach than Avery at all.

Mostly from fisher I believe. But also richie witt and dlord weighed in with about the same take.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm not going to change my tune because I don't need to totally base my argument over statistics/records. Nothing was suggested from anyone that Avery would change based on what happened in the end for him. It was HIS "system." It was his full-proof system and it was his way or the highway. Avery can clearly change but I really doubt that it would've happened here. He lost pretty much everyone in the lockeroom and that will signal your end. Success went to his head and he never really grew from it.

Carlisle does have a similar style to Avery but with a big difference, adaptability. He recognized he was coaching better talent than he was in Indiana and he needed to change his style. His style hasn't really worked, so what is he doing? He is changing it and giving Kidd more control. He said from the word go that Kidd was still a good PG and can run the team from the floor. The only gripe I can see on that is that it took too long to switch...but at least he made the switch.

I remember an article in the DMN where Wright was talking in the preseason on how Carlisle really was getting in Wright's ear about what he needed to do and what he could bring to the roster. He mentioned that the attention and care was nice and that he really didn't get that from Avery. It's just another example of how Carlisle is different.

How is having an assistant take control of the defensive aspect of the team and giving your PG more control micromanagement? Avery wanted every title he could possibly have, including the team shrink.

I cant argue with the success of Avery, so I dont see how you could as well. The fact that we lost in the playoffs is not an indictment on Avery at the least. I too think Avery early success had alot to do with his insistence on not changing, but I do think the last two seasons would have had him soul-searching this off-season with a full training camp with Kidd. I think Avery did not fully support giving over his system to Kidd in the mid-season, so he stuck to what was working. I think over the summer, Avery would see that Kidd could run the system and gave him the freedom he deserves.

To me, the fact that Carlisle lied to get the Mavs job, showed me how bad Carlisle was in the past. He talked all the good stuff to get the job, had all summer to open things up with the offense, then choose to call 80% of the plays for the team. I think that was horrible.

[twistaeffect2004]

My question is, why wasn't this done much sooner... like, the beginning of the season for instance? Kidd is one of the great floor generals of all time. You'd figure he'd receive these duties far earlier than the end of January.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Mostly from fisher I believe. But also richie witt and dlord weighed in with about the same take.

Yeah, I saw that, but I still dont see proof that Avery would not take advice from Harris. I sit close enough to the Mavs to see things, and so do you. I always saw Del coaching on the sidelines and Avery listening to him, so I dont buy that. I dont know what happens at practice, but from the standpoint of the games, I saw Del very active.

[dude1394]

Here's the latest from the same bleacher dude on carlisle. I think the most astute thing he's written is that he doesn't understand anything really.

Carlisle is an enigma to me: the Mavs seem to genuinely like him, he seems to work well in Dallas, but I'm really afraid he's about to screw things up in a franchise that isn't very mentally tough to begin with.

In fairness, the National Guard would've had to restore order during training camp if Avery Johnson were still the coach in Big D. However, Avery did have a clear direction and plan, albeit the wrong one for the personnel.

I'm not sure about Rick Carlisle. His starting lineups are always in flux, and the two guard position is on some sort of men-stral cycle, with Gerald Green, Antoine Wright, and JJ Barea seemingly coming and leaving monthly. I'm feeling a little 2007 Wade Phillips thing happening here.

[craggmac]

The Magic game tomorrow will be the true test of this theory. In my opinion, this is an important game.

[BGMaverick9]

So if Avery is allowed to soul search and figure out Kidd can run the system...Carlisle isn't allowed to like he is doing now?

Maybe Carlisle did let Kidd go to start the year and we went what...2-7? That would make you wonder if the plan was working or not. There were natural growing pains that were going to happen and tinkering. There was that, a constant flux of the rotation (injury and tinkering), and getting used to the players, he wanted to put the imprint on things. All that change was occurring but it still needed to be done the way he saw fit. He needed to see what worked best for people and adapt from there. Now there is a pretty steady starting lineup, everyone might be getting comfortable, now it's time to let things loose. Everyone has a good idea of the plays and ideas, now Kidd can put his touch on it.

Avery said all kinds of great things in the Kidd arrival presser and how he is a QB on the court and that we needed it greatly. I'll never forget that and then the game vs the Spurs in SA where it was a crucial possession to end the game and Kidd wasn't even out on the floor. That probably set a major Kabosh on Avery right there. I know most of the regulars on here will remember that example.

[dude1394]

This is from David Moore today. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and has an ego like a duck...good chance it's a duck.

Dirk's mentor returns: The man who helped develop Nowitzki's game has joined the Mavericks on this road trip.

Holger Geschwindner, Nowitzki's long-time friend and coach, is with the team and plans to stay for several weeks. These pilgrimages have been part of Geschwindner's routine since Nowitzki entered the NBA, but he didn't spend time with the Mavericks last season because former coach Avery Johnson found his presence too intrusive.

That's not an issue for coach Rick Carlisle.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by craggmac

The Magic game tomorrow will be the true test of this theory. In my opinion, this is an important game.

The Magic are really good. I'm not expecting to win this one. But I would love it if we can at least really compete, instead of pulling what we did @ Boston.

[DirkFTW]

^^Wow...

/argument. Carlisle > Avery

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Magic are really good. I'm not expecting to win this one. But I would love it if we can at least really compete, instead of pulling what we did @ Boston.

I'm interested too, I guess it surprised me when I looked at the fact Orlando keeps teams to a low scoring average. I thought it was just that their offense keeps them in the games. I figured it was going to be more on defense more than the offense b/c Orlando has a ton of shooters and Damp needs to muscle up on Howard and not be scared.

I think the chances are pretty good as long as Dirk doesn't have a clunker game like Boston, he makes things go so if he's rolling...we've got a shot.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dude1394

This is from David Moore today. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and has an ego like a duck...good chance it's a duck.

Did you also hear the part about how that same guy bashed Avery over there in Germany, then expected Avery to have open arms for him near the team?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Did you also hear the part about how that same guy bashed Avery over there in Germany, then expected Avery to have open arms for him near the team?

Yup...I did...sounds like avery's got pretty thin skin....when his star players mentor isn't welcome.

[alby]

Silk defending Avery is pretty humorous if I say so myself.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yup...I did...sounds like avery's got pretty thin skin....when his star players mentor isn't welcome.

I dont blame Avery for that, because that guy does not even work in the NBA, so there is no reason give him special treatment, when he says things like that in the press that separates you from your star player. That was uncalled for and very damaging to a coach ego, and especially a guy like Avery .
That same coach gave Dirk that advice, when Dirk quit the team the summer after Avery took over and the Mavs did not know Dirk was coming back til about two weeks before training camp. Do you remember that?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

So if Avery is allowed to soul search and figure out Kidd can run the system...Carlisle isn't allowed to like he is doing now?

Maybe Carlisle did let Kidd go to start the year and we went what...2-7? That would make you wonder if the plan was working or not. There were natural growing pains that were going to happen and tinkering. There was that, a constant flux of the rotation (injury and tinkering), and getting used to the players, he wanted to put the imprint on things. All that change was occurring but it still needed to be done the way he saw fit. He needed to see what worked best for people and adapt from there. Now there is a pretty steady starting lineup, everyone might be getting comfortable, now it's time to let things loose. Everyone has a good idea of the plays and ideas, now Kidd can put his touch on it.

Avery said all kinds of great things in the Kidd arrival presser and how he is a QB on the court and that we needed it greatly. I'll never forget that and then the game vs the Spurs in SA where it was a crucial possession to end the game and Kidd wasn't even out on the floor. That probably set a major Kabosh on Avery right there. I know most of the regulars on here will remember that example.

See, you just want to twist the story. Why is it that you want to give Carlisle all the benefit of doubt on everything. Now, you are saying it was Kidd fault we were 2-7? Many sources have reported from many players that Carlisle calls most of the plays on the floor. So, when we were 2-7, then that means Carlisle was calling most of the plays then as well.

Avery said all the right things about Kidd, which is true, but did he say he was going to give him the keys to his toy? Nope. But, I do think Avery would have let Kidd have the freedom after an off-season together.

Since you want to bring up the SA game, then tell me why Kidd has a losing record with the Mavs against teams over .500?