17-11: Mavs wing a big one against the Blazers - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 12-26-2008, 01:24 AM

JJ freaking Barea. JJ FREAKING Barea!

Brandon Bass too, although Barea was engineering those pick and rolls.

Kidd was also really huge in that fourth. Dirk was just fantastic in the first half. Damp had a nice game and probably has to be wondering what he has to do to be allowed to play down the stretch (although Carlilse certainly pushed all the right buttons down the stretch tonight).

Jet was great again tonight, and hit a HUGE three in transition late in the fourth.
The story of the game for me was the rebounding. That was what separated us from the Blazers tonight (along with them missing a ton of FT's).

And speaking of rebounding, JJB and George played the same minutes tonight, and JJB outrebounded him 8 to 2. I thought Wright should have gotten more burn tonight, because George is not an ideal defensive matchup with Roy.

I want to take this moment to throw out a huge F YOU to Josh Howard. Adn not just for getting thrown out. I was already highly pissed at Josh before that ever happened, because he looked to me like he just didn't care all night. He lolligagged it back on defense several times, one time in particular stands out in my mind where he just gave Roy the baseline in semi-transition and gave up a three poitn play.

On the play where Josh eventually got himself thrown out, he basically walked back on defense and just picked up a random player to defend. He then took the dumbest foul you'll ever see and, in my opinion, got thrown out on purpose.

This is the kind of event, especially combined with Josh's summer, which I think can put a lot of doubt in guys' heads as to whether they can trust him.

So the Josh situation aside, this is the kind of win that can really propel a team. If this team could somehow pull one out tomorrow in Utah they could really be primed for a big run.

Great win, hope everyone had a great Christmas!

CanadianMavsFan · 12-26-2008, 01:27 AM

I'm fully supporting a Josh Howard trade for a big man at this point. A Josh Howard for Chris Kaman trade could honestly make this team a championship contender in my eyes. The Kidd-Dirk-JJ-Terry foursome is already potent, they just need a consistent inside scorer. Bass and Damp are decent in that role, but a guy like Kaman could really take this team to the next level.

I've had it with Howard, the guy kills the ball on offense with his selfishness, and he's just stupid in general. Hell, just trade Josh Howard for a stable big man and a draft pick and I'll be happy at this point.

StackAttack · 12-26-2008, 01:28 AM

There were at least three times that fourth quarter where JJ Barea did something to remind me of Steve Nash.

alby · 12-26-2008, 01:28 AM

On purpose--I'm glad you caught that. Because he knew it right when it happened, he just walked towards the showers without stopping to talk to anyone or wait for anyone to escort him.

The sad thing? The northwest is known for the quality of their home grown marijuana.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-26-2008, 01:37 AM

"Mar-i-ju-a-na is baaaad."

Flacolaco · 12-26-2008, 01:37 AM

I guess I'm the only one who isn't done with Josh yet. I still think there is a need for his game a lot of nights. They didnt miss him in the 4th tonight because...well it was the 4th.

I just don't think he's getting moved, so I have to look for the good stuff.

Mavs Rule · 12-26-2008, 01:37 AM

The midget team plus dirk and bass certainly has energy when Rick saves Berea and Bass for the fourth quarter only. A big part of the NBA is who can bring it energy wise in the fourth. I love this strategy. That said, I lack faith that it will be effective in the playoffs.

Great win by the mavs over a team that was 10-2 at home. Winning in the western conference on the road is not easy by any means. Congrats to the mavs, and merry Christmas to all the mavs fans.

alby · 12-26-2008, 01:41 AM

our basketball IQ without Howard on the floor shoots up to above average.

Caseman · 12-26-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

JJ freaking Barea. JJ FREAKING Barea!

Brandon Bass too, although Barea was engineering those pick and rolls.

Kidd was also really huge in that fourth. Dirk was just fantastic in the first half. Damp had a nice game and probably has to be wondering what he has to do to be allowed to play down the stretch (although Carlilse certainly pushed all the right buttons down the stretch tonight).

Jet was great again tonight, and hit a HUGE three in transition late in the fourth.
The story of the game for me was the rebounding. That was what separated us from the Blazers tonight (along with them missing a ton of FT's).

And speaking of rebounding, JJB and George played the same minutes tonight, and JJB outrebounded him 8 to 2. I thought Wright should have gotten more burn tonight, because George is not an ideal defensive matchup with Roy.

I want to take this moment to throw out a huge F YOU to Josh Howard. Adn not just for getting thrown out. I was already highly pissed at Josh before that ever happened, because he looked to me like he just didn't care all night. He lolligagged it back on defense several times, one time in particular stands out in my mind where he just gave Roy the baseline in semi-transition and gave up a three poitn play.

On the play where Josh eventually got himself thrown out, he basically walked back on defense and just picked up a random player to defend. He then took the dumbest foul you'll ever see and, in my opinion, got thrown out on purpose.

This is the kind of event, especially combined with Josh's summer, which I think can put a lot of doubt in guys' heads as to whether they can trust him.

So the Josh situation aside, this is the kind of win that can really propel a team. If this team could somehow pull one out tomorrow in Utah they could really be primed for a big run.

Great win, hope everyone had a great Christmas!

Josh had too much turkey.

LonghornDub · 12-26-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I just don't think he's getting moved, so I have to look for the good stuff.

Incidentally, "the good stuff" can be found in Howard's 2nd dresser drawer on the right.

FreshJive · 12-26-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

The sad thing? The northwest is known for the quality of their home grown marijuana.

Smokin' that smellie, Northern Cali,
Gonna put a slug in Captain O'Malley

ghazi · 12-26-2008, 01:49 AM

Good win for the Mavs, 4th quarter resiliency, contributions from everyone, clutch shots, nice defensive stops at the end, etc.

A good way to end Christmas!

I'm too lazy to type anymore though. I hope we get a win against Utah tommorow, it'll be difficult, but I'll be disappointed if Millsap/Boozer are out and we lose.

J-Ho is REALLY expendable IMO.

particleman · 12-26-2008, 01:51 AM

Josh's reluctance to pass the ball to Dirk is starting to get outright embarrassing. Seems like once or twice a game Josh will dribble the ball, draw the double, and Dirk will be standing there wide open with his arms up and Josh will dribble around and jack up a contested jumpshot instead of passing. I've been in the "keep Josh" camp, but after tonight I have to say I've changed my mind. It seems silly, but do you guys think Josh has a grudge against Dirk or something? Like maybe he's pissed that Dirk pushed for the Jason Kidd-Devin Harris trade (Josh and Devin were supposedly BFFs, right?)...

alby · 12-26-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

Josh's reluctance to pass the ball to Dirk is starting to get outright embarrassing. Seems like once or twice a game Josh will dribble the ball, draw the double, and Dirk will be standing there wide open with his arms up and Josh will dribble around and jack up a contested jumpshot instead of passing. I've been in the "keep Josh" camp, but after tonight I have to say I've changed my mind. It seems silly, but do you guys think Josh has a grudge against Dirk or something? Like maybe he's pissed that Dirk pushed for the Jason Kidd-Devin Harris trade (Josh and Devin were supposedly BFFs, right?)...

it's been going on for over four years now man... =[

Caseman · 12-26-2008, 01:56 AM

Okay guys. You are already using Devean George at starting small forward and you have Josh Howard at shooting guard. Who the hell will replace him? You can't trade for a scoring center because you would have no one to fill the starting lineup. If you get a shooting guard, it's a lateral move. Don't see them moving Howard. Again, just knee-jerkiness from these boards after one off game.

jthig32 · 12-26-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Okay guys. You are already using Devean George at starting small forward and you have Josh Howard at shooting guard. Who the hell will replace him? You can't trade for a scoring center because you would have no one to fill the starting lineup. If you get a shooting guard, it's a lateral move. Don't see them moving Howard. Again, just knee-jerkiness from these boards after one off game.

I"m just going to give you the benfit of the doubt here and assume you didn't watch the game.

It was not an "off game".

LonghornDub · 12-26-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Okay guys. You are already using Devean George at starting small forward and you have Josh Howard at shooting guard. Who the hell will replace him? You can't trade for a scoring center because you would have no one to fill the starting lineup. If you get a shooting guard, it's a lateral move. Don't see them moving Howard. Again, just knee-jerkiness from these boards after one off game.

People have been calling for Josh to be traded for a pretty long time. I don't think it can be labeled as "knee-jerkiness" anymore.

alby · 12-26-2008, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Okay guys. You are already using Devean George at starting small forward and you have Josh Howard at shooting guard. Who the hell will replace him? You can't trade for a scoring center because you would have no one to fill the starting lineup. If you get a shooting guard, it's a lateral move. Don't see them moving Howard. Again, just knee-jerkiness from these boards after one off game.

have you been reading this board?

chumdawg · 12-26-2008, 01:59 AM

Whether Howard is just baked every day or he is as dumb as your first-grade box of crayons, it still remains that he is no more than a marginal NBA player. It amazes me that so many people continue to overrate him. The Mavericks would be better off if he simply disappeared from the roster. I mean that.

twelli · 12-26-2008, 02:03 AM

The Portlanders were probably so focused on getting Dirk the 5th foul that they didn't realize how good those other guys are. Dirk didn't need to score, or do anything fancy in the forth quarter and we still won. Proof that our team has a lot of options and plays well together. Josh really looks like stranger on a team that found together during the time he was injured. I would seriously consider to package Stack and Josh for something that makes us real contenders. We are potentially good but not as good as the Lakers, so that should be our measuring stick.

LonghornDub · 12-26-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

The Portlanders were probably so focused on getting Dirk the 5th foul that they didn't realize how good those other guys are. Dirk didn't need to score, or do anything fancy in the forth quarter and we still won. Proof that our team has a lot of options and plays well together. Josh really looks like stranger on a team that found together during the time he was injured. I would seriously consider to package Stack and Josh for something that makes us real contenders. We are potentially good but not as good as the Lakers, so that should be our measuring stick.

We almost beat the Lakers twice without him. If we can package him for someone decent, I think we can compete with them in a 7 game series. I mean that.

I'm not so sure we can compete with the Celtics, but I think we could beat the Lakers.

chumdawg · 12-26-2008, 02:07 AM

Just wanted to comment about how wrong those poor souls were who took Portland and gave the points. HA!

LonghornDub · 12-26-2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just wanted to comment about how wrong those poor souls were who took Portland and gave the points. HA!

They underestimated the JJB factor.

Caseman · 12-26-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

People have been calling for Josh to be traded for a pretty long time. I don't think it can be labeled as "knee-jerkiness" anymore.

It doesn't matter. We have NOBODY to replace him. You think Bass and Barea can hook up points for you every night? You trust the consistency of Singelton, George, or Wright? These are bit players. You need at least three All-Star calibre players. The Mavericks have Dirk, Terry, and like it or not, Josh. You might hate his game, his absense in the fourth quarter, but he puts up points. You can't expect Dirk to be hot in the beginning like he was today. Josh usually eats up first halves. That's a fact.

So here's the situation. People want him gone. What can you get for him?

An inside-scoring center: well, that leaves you depleted in the shooting guard/small forward position. Terry would be the only lights out shooter accompanying Dirk after moving Josh.

A lights-out shooter: that leaves you with the same problem with no production from the inside and makes the team into what everyone around here hates, a jump-shooting offense. On top of that, you have the shakey forward lineup of George, Wright, and Singleton. Does anyone trust them to make a play when it counts?

---

I'm not disagreeing that he seems to take some nights off, but Josh can get his own shot, he can drive by people on the dribble, he can post-up, and when he wants to, he can defend. I'm sick of people taking his points for granted and acting like this roster is sooo deep that they can move their third best player and plug in a spare in his place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

We almost beat the Lakers twice without him. If we can package him for someone decent, I think we can compete with them in a 7 game series. I mean that.

I'm not so sure we can compete with the Celtics, but I think we could beat the Lakers.

You also had JJB going off. Teams have figured out his tendancies. You can't expect him to dice up teams like the Lakers every time. The Mavericks are not on the same level as the Lakers and Celtics, and unless you can get a steal of a trade, moving Howard will do NOTHING to change that.

chumdawg · 12-26-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

They underestimated the JJB factor.

As do they all, LDub. As do they all.

quietsavant · 12-26-2008, 02:18 AM

The National media, especially ESPN can take this win of ours up their Ying Yangs......We came down the stretch with a brilliant exhibition of basketball. Pardon the language moderators...F em, like van exel said...

chumdawg · 12-26-2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

The National media, especially ESPN can take this win of ours up their Ying Yangs......We came down the stretch with a brilliant exhibition of basketball. Pardon the language moderators...F em, like van exel said...

You're lucky I don't report this profanity to a mod.

Good god, man. Ying Yang?

ghazi · 12-26-2008, 02:21 AM

After the Suns game, TNT didn't even mention the Mavs... just talked about the Suns' problems.\

After tonight, they talked about Oden's issues... no credit given whatsoever. Barkley at halftime went as far as to say Dirk's 1st half had no "imprint" on the game. I could understand from the standpoint that Dirk wasn't, and hardly controls the tempo of a game at times, but the dude wason pace for 48 frickin points, Shut up Charles.

Anywho, as I said, good win...let's not get too excited because Portlandis just a 2nd tier western playoff team... if we can win tommorow @ Utah the schedule shapes up nicely and we can easily be 24-11... which is wonderful considering our 2-7 start.

EricaLubarsky · 12-26-2008, 02:23 AM

Josh howard is expendable, but at the same time we can't afford to give him away for nothing. This team is cunning, ballsy and clutch but also a little thin on talent. Carlisle is good at getting the most out of the very average cast of players and for the most part let's hot stay hot, but howard is just about all this team has to trade. Unfortunately the next 2-3 playoffs will be dominated by the celts so its just a bad time to be an above average west-coast team.

Its sad that howard has turnes out to be such a knucklehead, because he is such a gifted player with such HIGH potential. He's just gotten dumber and more cancerous the longer he's been in the league. If he could pass and kept his mind toward hustle and slashing he'd be an allstar-caliber player but instead he's just another average knucklehead getting spoiled and entitled.

Btw- posting this from my new g-phone. <3<3

Caseman · 12-26-2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Josh howard is expendable, but at the same time we can't afford to give him away for nothing. This team is cunning, ballsy and clutch but also a little thin on talent. Carlisle is good at getting the most out of the very average cast of players and for the most part let's hot stay hot, but howard is just about all this team has to trade. Unfortunately the next 2-3 playoffs will be dominated by the celts so its just a bad time to be an above average west-coast team.

Still have Stackhouse's expiring contract. Package him with Bass/Wright/Green, you can grab a nice piece.

Zki41 · 12-26-2008, 02:37 AM

Don't forget the Cavaliers - they may have Boston's number!

But in terms of a Josh trade, I'm all up for Josh/Stack/Diop being traded for Kaman.

I think we need to keep Wright and Green on the team, especially considering the future, the potential awakenings of these two, and the versatility they have on SG/SF. We've seen what they can do, they just need to have a JJB-like epiphany.

I'm impartial on what to do with George. I don't care for him much, but he does occasionally produce. Kaman will more than make up for what we give up in Josh, we just have to make sure we have some pieces at SF. Dampier will do great alternating with Kaman, and it would go perfectly with Carlisle's habits of not playing Damp in the 4th - he can play Kaman instead.

twistaeffect2004 · 12-26-2008, 02:45 AM

Tonight was embarrassing from Josh. He honestly looked as if he didn't give a crap. The rest of his teammates are busting their butts trying to pull out a win and there he is, looking as if he's trying to get himself ejected from the game.

It looked like he quit on this team. That's completely unacceptable. But.. considering where his career has been going since last season, it shouldn't be a surprise.

Rick41 · 12-26-2008, 02:58 AM

Josh Howard is a peice of sh!t.

cinemablend · 12-26-2008, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Whether Howard is just baked every day or he is as dumb as your first-grade box of crayons, it still remains that he is no more than a marginal NBA player. It amazes me that so many people continue to overrate him. The Mavericks would be better off if he simply disappeared from the roster. I mean that.

A year ago I'd have called you crazy but...

Yeah. Wow. Dead on.

Take tonight. Mavs looked lost until Josh was kicked out. The offense runs better when he's not there. The team works better when Barea is getting his minutes. I'm not saying Barea is better than Josh... but Barea actually seems to care and Barea can actually get inside the paint. Something no one else on the team (except Wright and Green who aren't allowed to play) can do.

Barea is going to have his off nights, but he has more solid nights than off nights and as many brilliant nights as off nights.

Part of it is simply that Josh clearly doesn't care anymore. Anybody who says he does just isn't watching at all. This really really minor injury is no excuse. He put very little effort in at all tonight when he was on the floor. The guy doesn't even try to rebound anymore and tonight he was lollygagging on defense.

I mean there was NO good reason for him to get himself thrown out tonight. It was almost intentional. It really seemed like he just didn't feel like playing anymore so he shot off his mouth and intentionally got himself thrown out. He seemed delighted to be headed to the locker room and frankly... the team didn't look all that sad to see him go.

Josh Howard really really needs to go and FAST before the league wakes up to how overrated he is. The longer the Mavs wait the less and less he's worth... unbelievable as that is after all his off the court crap over the summer.

cinemablend · 12-26-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

It doesn't matter. We have NOBODY to replace him. You think Bass and Barea can hook up points for you every night? You trust the consistency of Singelton, George, or Wright? These are bit players. You need at least three All-Star calibre players. The Mavericks have Dirk, Terry, and like it or not, Josh. You might hate his game, his absense in the fourth quarter, but he puts up points. You can't expect Dirk to be hot in the beginning like he was today. Josh usually eats up first halves. That's a fact.

First, no one is suggesting we don't replace him, so this is a bunch of over-emotional garbage you're spewing.

Second, right now the Mavs have only one All-Star calibre player and his name is Dirk. Josh is not an All-Star player, and the only reason he got into the All-Star game was on a technicality... after a year in which he and the entire team played way way way over their heads. Josh is not an All-Star calibre player. At best he's just a hair below that. Terry as well.

Quote:

So here's the situation. People want him gone. What can you get for him?

An inside-scoring center: well, that leaves you depleted in the shooting guard/small forward position. Terry would be the only lights out shooter accompanying Dirk after moving Josh.

A lights-out shooter: that leaves you with the same problem with no production from the inside and makes the team into what everyone around here hates, a jump-shooting offense. On top of that, you have the shakey forward lineup of George, Wright, and Singleton. Does anyone trust them to make a play when it counts?

Um... you just said we were trading him for an inside-scoring center. Sooo how does that make us a jump shooting offense if we have an inside scoring center SCORING FROM THE INSIDE???

Quote:

I'm not disagreeing that he seems to take some nights off, but Josh can get his own shot, he can drive by people on the dribble, he can post-up, and when he wants to, he can defend.

He hasn't done most of that since 2005. The Josh in your head is not the one on the court. The Josh on the court is a guy who doesnt' really care about defending, doesn't like to take contact so he doesn't even try to drive people on the dribble. The Josh on the court now is a guy who stands on the peremiter and jacks up shots, and doesn't pass the ball or if he does just botches it. If he scores points its more from volume. His impact on the game is at best, extremely inconsistent and definitely waaay overrated by you.

Quote:

I'm sick of people taking his points for granted and acting like this roster is sooo deep that they can move their third best player and plug in a spare in his place.

Again, trading him to get a NEW third best player. Not suggesting ditching our third best player and making JJ Barea our new third best player.

Quote:

You also had JJB going off. Teams have figured out his tendancies. You can't expect him to dice up teams like the Lakers every time.

Which is why he's been doing a lot more very excellent passing. And unlike Kidd, he's an effective passer in the half court because he can drive into the paint and kick out to an open Dirk or Terry. And even though people keep screaming that teams have figured out his tendencies, he still has had some pretty nice games. I guess Portland is the one team that hasn't figured out his tendencies??

Quote:

The Mavericks are not on the same level as the Lakers and Celtics, and unless you can get a steal of a trade, moving Howard will do NOTHING to change that.

Neither will keeping him. So we can keep him and definitely not get to the same level as the Lakers and the Celtic, or we could try to move him and get a better piece and at least have a SHOT at getting to that level, a shot which we do not have with Josh Howard.

cinemablend · 12-26-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

After tonight, they talked about Oden's issues... no credit given whatsoever. Barkley at halftime went as far as to say Dirk's 1st half had no "imprint" on the game. I could understand from the standpoint that Dirk wasn't, and hardly controls the tempo of a game at times, but the dude wason pace for 48 frickin points, Shut up Charles.

Yeah that was weird. I don't know how anybody could see that crazy, ballet-like running spin move and say they didn't even notice Dirk. The way they talked, you'd think Dirk was a bench player before Kidd got here to elevate him. Silly.

I think it's just that Dirk usually makes it look so easy, splashing in shots almost effortlessly when he's really on. The guy had 24 points in one half though, they could have given him a LITTLE credit. If he hadn't gotten into foul trouble he probably would have scored 40 tonight.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-26-2008, 03:30 AM

Dirk is the best offensive player in the NBA next to Kobe. Lebron has more versatility scoring but can get cold. Dirk is just a heart breaker and unstoppable this season.

This team does go as far as Dirk takes it, and I'm pretty content with that at the moment.

Dirk is the man, and any of you who talked about trading him should be embarrassed.

quietsavant · 12-26-2008, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Josh Howard is a peice of sh!t.

I went back and rewatched that play, on his flagrant on Joel and it looks to be that he got tangled with Joel on the transition in what looked like a high pick n roll. Joel shoved him and as Joel slipped the oick to setup for the finish, he made the hard foul AS a Retaliation..

ghazi · 12-26-2008, 03:49 AM

DHWS our beloved Dirk is great, but needs some help.

I like this team, and I think I'd love it if J-Ho was traded. I am obviously obligated to root for him while he's a Mav, but god DAMN the lack of basketball IQ, the lack of effort, the lack of a consistent jumper (I could SWEAR he used to have that last year)! I can't even believe this guy had a 47 point game as early as 1 year ago... his regression is somewhat staggering.

He's just unspectacular in so many ways... we used to think he wasn't good enough to be a #2 option, I don't even think he's good enough to be a #3 option at this point... too inconsistent, too unreliable, too apathetic.

dirno2000 · 12-26-2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Dirk is the best offensive player in the NBA next to Kobe. Lebron has more versatility scoring but can get cold. Dirk is just a heart breaker and unstoppable this season.

This team does go as far as Dirk takes it, and I'm pretty content with that at the moment.

Dirk is the man, and any of you who talked about trading him should be embarrassed.

I'd say that Lebron and Wade are both better offensive players than Kobe and Dirk. They're all pretty good though.