15-7: The return of the incredible Josh II - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 12-09-2009, 07:58 AM

I realize this is giving Carlisle the heavy benefit of the doubt. And maybe he'll prove me wrong by continuing to rely on JJB. But my opinion of last night was that he rolled with Josh longer than he wanted to in an attempt to put the game away. But there came a point where Josh was just completely gassed and had to come out. Josh was VERY active offensively and defensively in that second half. Maybe he just burned white hot and and eventually fell off a cliff energy-wise.

Josh certainly didn't look confused by being taken out, and he didn't sit around without his warm ups itching to be put back in if a defensive situation arose. He immediately put on his warm ups and clearly looked done for the night. So I think this is a pretty safe bet, personally. Carlisle is not a dumb coach. At the very least he would have subbed Josh back in for obvious defensive situations if he'd considered him available.

And speaking of Josh, holy crap welcome back. It was so refreshing to see him helping carry the offensive load, AND putting in a stellar effort defensively in that second half. Very, very encouraging.

Marion and Gooden have got to start making their chippies count. I give Marion quite a bit more leeway because he's obviously contributing greatly on the defensive end and he's been struggling with his ankle. Gooden has no excuse. He is on this team exactly for matchups like this, and his primary role is to help the offense. 1-7 with 4 turnovers in 15 minutes? Holy crap that's putrid.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-09-2009, 09:52 AM

I agree that Gooden was acquired for match-ups like this, but then he should be starting. Whatever happened to starting Damp and/or Gooden based on that? One logically knows that Damp won't be effective in a game like this so why even bother trying that.

jthig32 · 12-09-2009, 09:55 AM

When one of the two only plays seven minutes, I'm not sure it matters who starts.

Murphy3 · 12-09-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Other than Dirk, who do you want shooting FTs late? Kidd seems to shy away from the clutch FTs, and I don't honestly want Barea, Howard or Marion on the line.

That could be why Howard was out of the game... He has a long history of being a bonehead at the wrong time.. and no, I don't want JJB shooting the FT, but I damn sure don't want Howard shooting them.

dirno2000 · 12-09-2009, 11:03 AM

According to 82games.com Josh is 27-32 (84%) from the line in clutch situations over the past three years. I think the whole 4th quarter thing gets overblown because he doesn't shoot a lot.

SMC0007 · 12-09-2009, 11:26 AM

They should be able to rig a play to get Dirk the damn ball 95% of the time, at all cost!

92bDad · 12-09-2009, 12:08 PM

Another good win over a Contending team from the West.

This showed again, what happens when this teams gets some rest and plays relatively healthy.

Still on pace for 50-55 wins...then it will be time to make that post-season run.

As for RC, keep managing minutes...keep the guys healthy...utilize guys like JJB to keep the team moving along throught he marathon of the regular season.

This team was not built to win 65-70 wins, but rather as we see the 50-55 wins...but they are indeed built for the Post-season!!! The Mavs are a match-up nightmare for all other teams in the league, and when they play with their "A" game, they can't be beat...thus all they need to do is get to the dance and then the switch will be flipped on.

SMC0007 · 12-09-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Another good win over a Contending team from the West.

This showed again, what happens when this teams gets some rest and plays relatively healthy.

Still on pace for 50-55 wins...then it will be time to make that post-season run.

As for RC, keep managing minutes...keep the guys healthy...utilize guys like JJB to keep the team moving along throught he marathon of the regular season.

This team was not built to win 65-70 wins, but rather as we see the 50-55 wins...but they are indeed built for the Post-season!!! The Mavs are a match-up nightmare for all other teams in the league, and when they play with their "A" game, they can't be beat...thus all they need to do is get to the dance and then the switch will be flipped on.

Nah, IMO we still don't have a guy to get to the bucket against the better defending teams and individuals. Josh can do this a little bit but he doesn't consistently in the 4th quarter. I believe we are one piece away from being built for the post season.

AO41 · 12-09-2009, 01:12 PM

Its funny.....I getr a lil worried whne JET i at the free thrw line too, but the man is CLUTCH when it comes to making shots. Other than Dirk...Jet is the one I want on the line...maybe Kidd....

*** During the game one of the announcers said that Dirk sais "Jet is the most clutch player he had ever seen"....just though it was interesting since there have been some mentions of that here. Shot wise I am always torn at the end if we should go to Dirk or Jet..but theyr both great to have at the end of a close game.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-09-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Nah, IMO we still don't have a guy to get to the bucket against the better defending teams and individuals. Josh can do this a little bit but he doesn't consistently in the 4th quarter. I believe we are one piece away from being built for the post season.

I both agree and disagree with this. Aside from Josh, you are correct in saying that we have absolutely NO ONE who is proficient at not only driving the ball to the cup, but......wait for it..........wait for it...............actually FINISHING the play.

However, I believe Josh has the POTENTIAL to be that guy if healthy. I think the skill set and talent is there, and if he can come back with a similar attitude to the one he had in the playoffs last year, I think J-Ho can be exactly what this team needs in that regard.

Regardless, I still believe we are one SOLID piece from being a contender. We either need a good, solid, starting 5 (not just a serviceable one), or good, scoring 2 guard such as Monta Ellis or Kevin Martin. Personally I would like to get one of those guys and move Josh back to the 3 and have Marion come off the bench, providing some lock down D off the bench which we need. Unfortunately, players such as Ellis/Martin don't come free, so the question is what would we have to give up.

Personally, i'm not on the "trade Howard" band wagon, haven't ever been, regardless of his injuries/off the court issues. I think Josh has the skill set and the competitiveness to be a legitimate 2nd scoring option behind Dirk. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any consistency out of either of those two aspects. If, by some miracle, Josh can put em together I see the mavs resigning him.

AO41 · 12-09-2009, 01:29 PM

I liked what Josh did last nite...but I wuld give him and anything else that doesnt include Jet or the other 4 starters to get G Wallace......I honestly think he would be the perfect piece that would help the team goo all the way. A healthy Josh migh be able to help the team get there too...but theres just too many what ifs

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-09-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

I liked what Josh did last nite...but I wuld give him and anything else that doesnt include Jet or the other 4 starters to get G Wallace......I honestly think he would be the perfect piece that would help the team goo all the way. A healthy Josh migh be able to help the team get there too...but theres just too many what ifs

I do love me some Gerald Wallace, but getting him would make the acquisition of Marion pretty much obsolete, unless you have one of them coming off the bench. Neither can play the 2, as neither of em have the handles, or the shot necessary to be a shooting guard in the league. Josh Howard boarders on the edge of having adequate handles. Personally, I don't think he does, but his shot is good enough to play the 2. And most importantly, J-Ho can CREATE HIS OWN DAMN SHOT!!! Seems like the only other player we have that can do this with any measure of consistent success is Dirk.

So while yes, I would love G Wallace, I think he plays a position that is already pretty stacked on this team. If we get a player thats ANYTHING other than a quality starting 5, I think it HAS to be a legitimate, quality 2 guard who can get to the hole and create their own shot.

iella · 12-09-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Regardless, I still believe we are one SOLID piece from being a contender.

It seems we've been one SOLID piece from being a contender for a long time. Jury's still out on what "SOLID" and "contender" mean. And "one," for that matter.

Underdog · 12-09-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iella

It seems we've been one SOLID piece from being a contender for a long time. Jury's still out on what "SOLID" and "contender" mean. And "one," for that matter.

It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is...

AO41 · 12-09-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

I do love me some Gerald Wallace, but getting him would make the acquisition of Marion pretty much obsolete, unless you have one of them coming off the bench. Neither can play the 2, as neither of em have the handles, or the shot necessary to be a shooting guard in the league. Josh Howard boarders on the edge of having adequate handles. Personally, I don't think he does, but his shot is good enough to play the 2. And most importantly, J-Ho can CREATE HIS OWN DAMN SHOT!!! Seems like the only other player we have that can do this with any measure of consistent success is Dirk.

So while yes, I would love G Wallace, I think he plays a position that is already pretty stacked on this team. If we get a player thats ANYTHING other than a quality starting 5, I think it HAS to be a legitimate, quality 2 guard who can get to the hole and create their own shot.

Wallace has played shooting guard before and I believe he is loistd as a SG. I think he would be fine offensively with KIdd and his hustle.

But to me a line up of

Kidd Kidd
Walace Jet
Marion Wallace
Dirk Marion
Damp Dirk

sounds soo crazy..imagine the D....and I think Dirk Jet and other with helpf from Kidd could take care of the Offense..Idk it just makes me wonder...but if we ahve to go with Josh thn soo be it ...GO MAVS

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-09-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Wallace has played shooting guard before and I believe he is loistd as a SG. I think he would be fine offensively with KIdd and his hustle.

But to me a line up of

Kidd Kidd
Walace Jet
Marion Wallace
Dirk Marion
Damp Dirk

sounds soo crazy..imagine the D....and I think Dirk Jet and other with helpf from Kidd could take care of the Offense..Idk it just makes me wonder...but if we ahve to go with Josh thn soo be it ...GO MAVS

First, G Wallace is listed as a Forward. Secondly, looking at his 3% and attempts vs. makes he doesn't look to have 3 point range, which this team needs at the 2, at least to a decent amount. To be honest, Wallace prolly has a better drive than Howard, regardless of health, but I think Josh is a more all around polished player. Defensively Wallace also has the edge, but not by much at all.

I'm just hoping that Josh comes back with something to prove EVERY GAME, instead of just doing it in spurts. If Josh gives the same effort as Dirk every night and he is healthy I think its hard not to consider this team a contender.......possibly.

badfish22 · 12-09-2009, 04:28 PM

http://www.nba.com/video/mavericks/

J-ho interview up

CadBane · 12-09-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I realize this is giving Carlisle the heavy benefit of the doubt. And maybe he'll prove me wrong by continuing to rely on JJB. But my opinion of last night was that he rolled with Josh longer than he wanted to in an attempt to put the game away. But there came a point where Josh was just completely gassed and had to come out. Josh was VERY active offensively and defensively in that second half. Maybe he just burned white hot and and eventually fell off a cliff energy-wise.

Josh certainly didn't look confused by being taken out, and he didn't sit around without his warm ups itching to be put back in if a defensive situation arose. He immediately put on his warm ups and clearly looked done for the night. So I think this is a pretty safe bet, personally. Carlisle is not a dumb coach. At the very least he would have subbed Josh back in for obvious defensive situations if he'd considered him available.

And speaking of Josh, holy crap welcome back. It was so refreshing to see him helping carry the offensive load, AND putting in a stellar effort defensively in that second half. Very, very encouraging.

Marion and Gooden have got to start making their chippies count. I give Marion quite a bit more leeway because he's obviously contributing greatly on the defensive end and he's been struggling with his ankle. Gooden has no excuse. He is on this team exactly for matchups like this, and his primary role is to help the offense. 1-7 with 4 turnovers in 15 minutes? Holy crap that's putrid.

Umm, even if that were the case...there are other people on the bench you can play over your 5"10 PG when the ONLY thing we are trying to do is stop a three pointer.

sefant77 · 12-09-2009, 05:07 PM

I love Crash but the way he is playing the next concussion will come for sure.

G-Man · 12-09-2009, 06:53 PM

I'm used to the JJB bashing, but if you want to blame Nash's 3's on his this time, who do you blame the other umpteenth times he hit them against us? He was eliminating the Mavs from the playoffs with that shot while JJB was still in Puerto Rico. The onky player on our bench with a chance to defend him better was Roddy, and thats a hell of a lot to ask of a rookie.

SeriousSummer · 12-09-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

And I could NOT for the life of me understand why JJB was being subbed in for defensive purposes...I really would like someone to ask RC what's up with that. Having Josh out there against Stevie makes those shots much, much harder. My bud and I just could not figure it out.

I'm not sole it was a good move, but it was clearly a ball handling change--as long as the Mavs didn't throw the ball away and made their free throws, Phoenix didn't have time to win the game.

It worked, but barely.

If I were a moderator, I'd ban all the people who didn't understand why the change was made, but that's just me.

CadBane · 12-09-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I'm used to the JJB bashing, but if you want to blame Nash's 3's on his this time, who do you blame the other umpteenth times he hit them against us? He was eliminating the Mavs from the playoffs with that shot while JJB was still in Puerto Rico. The onky player on our bench with a chance to defend him better was Roddy, and thats a hell of a lot to ask of a rookie.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the game. I think ALL of Nash's threes came in the last 2 minutes...in which time JJB was getting shot over and/or easily screened.

AO41 · 12-09-2009, 10:15 PM

Its was sooo obvious on the J-Rich three and on the Nash 3 that JJ was such a liability....it was the same play they ran on different sides and JJ was slightly late, but the problem was when he jumped it didnt matter because both Nash and J Rich had clear shots over him

FreshJive · 12-09-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I'm guessing you didn't watch the game. I think ALL of Nash's threes came in the last 2 minutes...in which time JJB was getting shot over and/or easily screened.

Yeah but on one of those Dirk was there in time, and Nash just shot right over him. Nobody was stopping that one. Still it's hard to believe that Josh couldn't gut it out for a couple more minutes.

badfish22 · 12-09-2009, 11:18 PM

tcat075 · 12-09-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Roddy may beat JJ in wingspan, but he will never beat him in cat-like ferocity when attacking jump shooters.

tcat075 · 12-09-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

According to 82games.com Josh is 27-32 (84%) from the line in clutch situations over the past three years. I think the whole 4th quarter thing gets overblown because he doesn't shoot a lot.

That's better than he usually shoots in non-clutch situations...

tcat075 · 12-09-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Or how about this caption: Barea is used to playing cat and mouse games with his opponents, only usually he's the mouse.

FreshJive · 12-10-2009, 12:08 AM

Roddy B would just get bounced right the f off with the same screens. That's always going to be a problem when you choose two from three 180 pounders to finish the game.