Observations and Thoughts

[ddh33]

Well, now that the draft has concluded and I can get back to my normally scheduled life, I have some thoughts about everything.

First of all, I am surprised at the general skepticism and pessimism around here. I've watched everyone go from the ultimate high of thinking that Shaq was coming tonight to going to the ultimate low of saying that Shaq isn't coming and this team is doomed. I don't understand it.

I don't think Shaq was ever going to be traded tonight. LA can not deal him until they make sure Kobe is coming back. While everyone assumes that happens, there is always the chance that it won't. LA won't have a team without both superstars next season.

But it still seems to be agreed upon that Shaq is going to be traded. Now, everyone keeps mentioning that you can't get equal value for him, but we all already knew that. The Lakers should have too. LA is serious about dealing him. Shaq is serious about leaving. He's also serious about getting his money...That makes Dallas a prime contender. Sure, there may be others, but you can't worry about all of that. All the Mavs can do is take care of themselves.

With that in mind, the Mavs took care of themselves. Dallas saved themselves a lot of money this weekend without harming their team. I don't think for one moment that Stackhouse and Laettner are suddenly the pieces that put the Mavs over the top, but they don't hurt either. In fact, both Stack and Laettner are easier to move than Jamison from a financial standpoint. Apparently, Stackhouse has even agreed to come off the bench. I don't think it ever comes to that, but there isn't a problem.

Then, the draft rolls around. Dallas comes out of this draft with what many considered to be the best point guard and the best center. But somehow people are upset. Why? Harris will be a very good player. I'm a big fan of the kid. Pavel scares me a little, but he does have a ton of potential. Donnie loves him, and that is good enough for me. I think you can make a case that Dallas had one of the best drafts...

But, to those who are feeling down, I would encourage you by saying that things still aren't over. Player movement just began. It didn't end tonight. Tonight was the beginning. The Mavs have now positioned themselves to go after anyone, anywhere. In fact, I think that is the discouraging thing to many fans. It sounds like most of us are overwhelmed at what come next. Rest assured, there is a plan...this is just a part of it.

I don't know if Shaq is ever a Maverick. But no one knew that coming in to tonight, and the Mavs can't put their eggs all in one basket. They didn't. Let's get over it.

But did anyone else notice that this Mavs team suddenly looks like it is being built around Dirk. If anything, it looks less likely to me that the Mavs move Dirk for Shaq. I know the local papers have been saying that, but the national media apparently hasn't gotten the memo. It just looks to me like this team is being built to compliment Dirk. Frankly, that comforts me.

Like I said, I can't believe more people aren't as excited about what has transpired as I am!

[FilthyFinMavs]

Well I don't like the idea that we are sort of rebuilding. I love what we did in this draft but I don't know if the Mavs plan on shipping Nash out or if they feel he won't be returning. I don't like that. Regardless of the potential Devin Harris has he isn't ready to start in this league in the playoffs. If the Mavs could somehow still keep our young players of Pavel, Howard, Daniels and Harris and still somehow get Shaq i'm much more excited. I just hope the Mavs havent' through the plan of getting Shaq out of the window. I know Lakers want Dirk now but what do Lakers do when they have no takers for Shaq? Are they going to bring him back for another season? As far as Stackhouse goes I think he's out of here maybe to New York. Maybe we get Harrington and Kurt for him.

[ocelot_ark]

I really see a Tony Parker when I look at Devin Harris...but taller. Didn't parker contribute his rookie season?

Anyway, I'm beginning to think these moves were an indication of how scared we were of getting out-youthed by SA and Houston. Those team's cores are considerably younger than outs...not so lopsided anymore.

[Simon2]

I think there are just a lot of people that are confused about the situation. One thing you can't argue is that it has been exciting. The Mavs came out great and I'd give them an A+. I'm a little worried about the Russian Bear. His stats aren't flattering and if he can't hack it there, how can he survive in the NBA. The only thing I don't like about drafting a PG is that it might send the wrong message to Nash. Although Donnie has said that he hopes that one day Nash will pass on the torch to Harris. Hopefully, that will be in a few years. I still think the Mavs are in the hunt for Shaq. The Mavs are very flexible right now with contracts. I think a Jerry Stackhouse coming off the bench will be a potent poison for the other team. Hello sixth man again. That's if he doesn't get traded. I think the Mavs next major move will be to try and unload Walker. I the Lakers won't budge and they want Dirk, I think Cuban starts looking elsewhere. I hope the Mavs are also trying to swing a deal for McGrady. I hate the guy but his talent is undeniable. Of course, if it were a choice between Shaq or McGrady, I'd go with Shaq. Well, it depends on what the Mavs have to give up. I think Cuban will be loyal to Nash and resign him. I think the Mavs should be trying to send Daniels to the Lakers instead of Nash. The selling point will be that he's younger and has greater potential than Nash. Can't wait for the next few days.

[DubOverdose]

I'm very happy. We have a much younger team now with a better long term outlook than before. We now have a backup pg and future replacement for Nash if all goes well. We have a center that should be good in a few years and is supposed to have the ability to DOMINATE. The 50th pick didn't seem bad either, but I really don't know anything besides what I read on nbadraft.net. He is supposed to resemble Nash's style....good! We also have Jon Stefansson who is rumored to be ready for some playing time next season. On top of that we have JHo at F and Marquis Daniels if we re-sign him at G and we should have atleast a decent team in the future especially since Dirk is still young. The Mavs have positioned themselves to have youth at every spot on the roster as well as veterans. I'm also excited about the Mavs taking two international players in Pavel and the #50 pick. Donnie knows European players well so for him to take 2 of them, I think he really sees a great future in them. After last year's rookie success, why should we not be excited about the Mavs taking 3 players? If they are anywhere near as successful as last year, we are in great shape. The Mavs can still sign some players that missed out in the draft like they did last year with MARQUIS DANIELS. I'm really optimistic about the Mavs' future now...just a little curious as to how Pavel will turn out.

[Evilmav2]

This draft was absolute greatness ddh33.

I for one am excited as all hell that we just gave up Jamison (and his bloated contract) and a future 1st rounder in exchange for a stud PG in Harris, a Ravening 7-5 Giant in Big Pavel, a very tradeable and very savvy big man in Laettner, and next year's Sixth Man of the Year in Stack (I am going to have to get a Mavs Stackhouse jersey as soon as they pop up in the team store)...

Donnie and Cubes played this draft like a fiddle and even if we are not able to bring the Daddy to Dallas this Summer, our deep and talented Mavs will be loaded for bear next year.

[jayC]

The twos stackhouse, daniels, howard, finley good lord is any team not loaded at the two then the Dallas Mavericks. As far as Shaq its only thursday and a lot can happen between know and the start of the season. The decision still comes down to Dirk for Shaq even if Cuban denies it. Latner, Nash, and Walker seem like logicla picks for LA.

[grndmstr_c]

Don't count on any deals with one player going out and two coming in happening. The Mavs priority at this point needs to be trading two for one to get the roster down to 15. Delk and TAW are completely superflous. There aren't enough minutes to go around between Fin, JHo, and Stack at the 2/3. Likewise with Eddie, Fort and Laettner at the 4/5. And something still needs to be decided concerning Walker (who, unless the Mavs trade for Shaq or TMac, I wouldn't be surprised to see finish out his contract as a Mav).

Beyond that, though, I agree with you 100%, ddh. The Mavs now have all kinds of pieces to work with at all kinds of different salary levels, and assuming they hang on to the kids, I think they're doing a fabulous job of building for the future without going into anything that resembles a typical rebuilding mode, ie., without sacrificing the present. I'm very happy with the moves they've made, and that makes me ever more confident that the moves that follow will be good ones.

[uberfan]

I like this draft. Any team that is consistently competing in the playoffs rarely is able to walk away with both the PG and C of the future in the same draft.

I think Jamison was worth trading for the heir apparent to Nash. I like AJ and what he did for us with both his play and attititude and wish him well. Hope he makes the All-Stars in the East. But Jamison was not a go-to-guy and he should have been with a maxed-out contract. No knock on him, but just a financial fact. Worst case is that Stack fills the instant offense role from a veteran who has been there at less than half the cost/per year and only for 3 years.

If the price comes down for Shaq we still have the ammo to put the deal together with Walker and Laettner.

Harris allows us the luxury of trying to get Nash re-signed at what is a reasonable price and term of years. Only ones who would screw that up is likely to be Suns, but I think they are going to push hard for Kobe.

Shaq and LAL may very well kiss and make up. We are still in good shape if that happens.

We went into this offseason saying we expected to re-sign Nash and Daniels and hope to pick up Ostertag. I wondered how Mavs were going to get the needed backup PG and project big man we needed for the future.

Well, I think we are still on track.

We still have two guys with over 20 million in expiring contracts that are going to have some value between now and the Feb. trade deadline.

We can now afford to wait out the Shaq drama and deal on terms favorable to us.

Maybe we can do something with GS for Dampier without getting into a bidding war with other teams.

July is going to be a slow, but interesting month.

[chumdawg]

Nice post, ddh. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't know about you, but I'm hoppy-cited!!

[bcrav4]

The roster: Dirk Nowitzki, Antoine Walker, Michael Finley, Josh Howard, Eduardo Najera, Tony Delk, Shawn Bradley, Danny Fortson, Jon Stefansson, Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Pavel Podkolzine, Stackhouse and Laettner. Marquis Daniels is a restricted free agent and Steve Nash is an unrestricted free agent.

lol. Still too many forwards.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: bcrav4
The roster: Dirk Nowitzki, Antoine Walker, Michael Finley, Josh Howard, Eduardo Najera, Tony Delk, Shawn Bradley, Danny Fortson, Jon Stefansson, Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Pavel Podkolzine, Stackhouse and Laettner. Marquis Daniels is a restricted free agent and Steve Nash is an unrestricted free agent.

lol. Still too many forwards.

And add Devin Harris as the PG. That is 16.

[MightyToine]

I still wonder....Even if, at the worst case scenario, Shaq does NOT end up here in Dallas, couldn't the mavs go for Dampier *or* that Bulls Deal involving Chandler for Walker?

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: MightyToine
I still wonder....Even if, at the worst case scenario, Shaq does NOT end up here in Dallas, couldn't the mavs go for Dampier *or* that Bulls Deal involving Chandler for Walker?

Ofcourse they are doing that. Infact they were also interested in Ilgauskas.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever

Ofcourse they are doing that. Infact they were also interested in Ilgauskas.

Cool. I say the order of preference is probably :


1.) Getting Dampier(even though I think he's a lazy ass who only plays hard in a contract year)

2.) Bull Deal involving Chandler

3.) Big Z




I will definitely be surprised if Walker is still a Mav by the time the 2004-2005 season rolls around.

[kg_veteran]

ddh33 - I wasn't online last night and I haven't gone back to read the draft thread, so I suppose that's where the negativity is that you're talking about. Well, I can only speak for myself, but so far I am THRILLED with how the Mavs have done this offseason.

They've converted a luxury (a max paid tweener forward 6th man) and a future No. 1 (which is going to be a late first-rounder) into the following:

- A swingman who is a legit 6th man candidate himself and can still drop 20 a night in a starting role but who also has trade value
- A seasoned veteran big man with a nice expiring contract
- A terrific young backup PG who could be the "heir apparent" to Nash (one of the Mavs' three main needs)
- A really nice project center (one of the Mavs' three main needs)

The Mavs' roster currently stands like this:

C- Bradley, Laettner, Pavel
PF - Nowitzki, Najera, Fortson, Walker
SF - Finley, Howard, Wahad
SG - Daniels, Stackhouse, Delk
PG - Nash, Harris, Steffansson, Flores

When you look at it, Stackhouse is not only a tradeable asset (I still think a team like the Bulls would be willing to acquire him), he's a great insurance policy if either a) Daniels leaves or b) we have to trade Finley or c) both.

Pavel is your project center but could also be included if necessary in a package to get Shaq or another big man. My gut tells me Harris is staying, but he's also a nice piece you could put in a Shaq deal.

Laettner gives you either a) a veteran big guy to log minutes in the middle or b) a great piece to combine with Walker to give someone tremendous cap relief.

As I see it, the Mavs have almost limitless flexibility from here to make deals the rest of the summer. They have to get Nash re-signed and try to do the same with Daniels. After that, anything is fair game.

And hey, what if we don't get Shaq? I'm still convinced that you can convert some combination of Bradley, Laettner, Pavel, Walker, Fortson, Najera, Finley, Howard, Wahad, and Stackhouse into a starting center -- which is all you really need at this point.

If you're not optimistic about that, I don't know that you're capable of optimism.

[Dooby]

KG, since we tossed in cash to get him, you need to add Luis Flores at the end of the PG mix.

[Simon2]

I thought that Daniels was the pg of the future for Dallas. He was doing a great job last year.

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
ddh33 - I wasn't online last night and I haven't gone back to read the draft thread, so I suppose that's where the negativity is that you're talking about. Well, I can only speak for myself, but so far I am THRILLED with how the Mavs have done this offseason.

They've converted a luxury (a max paid tweener forward 6th man) and a future No. 1 (which is going to be a late first-rounder) into the following:

- A swingman who is a legit 6th man candidate himself and can still drop 20 a night in a starting role but who also has trade value
- A seasoned veteran big man with a nice expiring contract
- A terrific young backup PG who could be the "heir apparent" to Nash (one of the Mavs' three main needs)
- A really nice project center (one of the Mavs' three main needs)

The Mavs' roster currently stands like this:

C- Bradley, Laettner, Pavel
PF - Nowitzki, Najera, Fortson, Walker
SF - Finley, Howard, Wahad
SG - Daniels, Stackhouse, Delk
PG - Nash, Harris, Steffansson

When you look at it, Stackhouse is not only a tradeable asset (I still think a team like the Bulls would be willing to acquire him), he's a great insurance policy if either a) Daniels leaves or b) we have to trade Finley or c) both.

Pavel is your project center but could also be included if necessary in a package to get Shaq or another big man. My gut tells me Harris is staying, but he's also a nice piece you could put in a Shaq deal.

Laettner gives you either a) a veteran big guy to log minutes in the middle or b) a great piece to combine with Walker to give someone tremendous cap relief.

As I see it, the Mavs have almost limitless flexibility from here to make deals the rest of the summer. They have to get Nash re-signed and try to do the same with Daniels. After that, anything is fair game.

And hey, what if we don't get Shaq? I'm still convinced that you can convert some combination of Bradley, Laettner, Pavel, Walker, Fortson, Najera, Finley, Howard, Wahad, and Stackhouse into a starting center -- which is all you really need at this point.

If you're not optimistic about that, I don't know that you're capable of optimism.

I'm not too comfortable with Finley playing the 3. I don't want to end up moving our guards up to the forward position just because we have too many of them. I mean, Nash, Harris, Steffansson, #50 pick, Finley, Daniels and Stackhouse aren't going to be able to share minutes at the guard position. Some of them would have to go. Could we possibly use a few of them in a package with Walker to pick up Shaq? I don't mind who else we get rid of as long as Nash and Nowitzki stay. The idea of Shaq, Nowitzki and Nash on the same team is pretty exciting if you ask me.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Dooby
KG, since we tossed in cash to get him, you need to add Luis Flores at the end of the PG mix.

Edited accordingly.

[Jeremiah]

For what it's worth, here's a piece from Chad Ford, before the draft:

erick, irvine: whose your favorite player in the draft?

Chad Ford: In five years, I believe that these will be the best five players from this draft.

1. Shaun Livingston. 2. Emeka Okafor 3. Andre Iguodala 4. Devin Harris 5. Pavel Podkolzine.

Just give them five years.

And we have 2 of those 5. I've no problem with that at all. Harris was the guy I wanted if we kept the pick, and, it worked out well in that regard. If Donnie is excited about Pavel, I am, until I see him play.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: Simon2
I thought that Daniels was the pg of the future for Dallas. He was doing a great job last year.

He was OK, but he is not a natural PG. Steffanson is also supposed to be your PG of the future. Neither is ready to be a starter if Nash leaves for some reason.

What Daniels showed me is that he needs to become the SG of the future and be paired with another good ball-handler. Harris and Daniels will be an exciting backcourt.

I see Steffanson becoming like Hubert Davis or the Polish Rifle, our designated sharp-shooter. With his contract terms you can keep him for years.

Flores taken in the second round can become a serviceable backup PG and maybe take on the smaller, quciker PG. I know he was a good college PG, though I am not sure how quick he will be against NBA competition.

[Stressboy]

KG just did a great rundown. I think the Mavs had a plan going into the offseason and they executed it without regard to Shaq. They know to win it all now days, you have to have a complete front court to counter Duncan/Garnett or Wallace squared and thus when the Shaq thing showed up and they were told Dirk or no deal, they said no deal and went along with the plan. Maybe LA will counter later without that demand, but until then lets build a team to beat them without Shaq.

The plan from stressboy's GM couch:

1. Resign Nash and Danials.
2. Fix our problems of a real Center and a backup PG that can run the high octane offense.
3. Have our heir apparents for our PG and C positions. We have our SG and SF lined up for the next 10 years already if we resign Danials and Dirk for the next 7-8.

Moving Jamison made it easier to give Nash the money he wants so that helps #1. Stack might be insurance, but who knows. Getting Pavel and Harris filled the young C and PG need, maybe. Harris is probably going to the be backup PG, but I would hope they at least get Avery Johnson and leave him on the playoff roster next year. So now you try to get the FA's signed and make a move for Dampier.

All in all Hanable from the A team would be very happy with the progress so far.

Stressboy

[sike]

Chad Ford: In five years, I believe that these will be the best five players from this draft.

1. Shaun Livingston. 2. Emeka Okafor 3. Andre Iguodala 4. Devin Harris 5. Pavel Podkolzine.

Just give them five years.

surprised that "the next kevin garnett" Dwight Howard did not make this list...????

[sike]

kg said:
C- Bradley, Laettner, Pavel
PF - Nowitzki, Najera, Fortson, Walker
SF - Finley, Howard, Wahad
SG - Daniels, Stackhouse, Delk
PG - Nash, Harris, Steffansson

my question is "is this lineup any better than last years?" I am seriously convinced that Walker will be gone, and that will make them better alone by forcing them to focus on Dirk, but is this proposed lineup any better?

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: sike

surprised that "the next kevin garnett" Dwight Howard did not make this list...????

I'm not. At best I see him being a 15/8/4 guy. Those are pretty good numbers but that doesn't deserve the number 1 pick in the draft. It's unfair people are calling him the next KG because he's a great kid. I hope he does well but I don't see superstar in him at all or any other high schoolers in this draft with the exception of Al Jefferson and Shaun Livingston.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

my thoughts:
I was initially shocked they drafted a pg. Now that I think about it, it makes sense in 3 scenarios.

1. Nash is on his way out, maybe to another team, maybe a s&t to the lakers. Hope I'm wrong on this one.

2. Daniels is on his way out. Maybe another team will be offering more than the mle. Again not that pleasant, but at least here the mle remains open for going after a 5.

3.Probably the most likely scenario, there is no specific deal and the team is gathering pieces to make some offers. They drafted the best player on the table, traded for a center prospect and now are burning up the phones trying to make something happen.

[Stressboy]

Sike,

If Devin Harris is able to carry the backup PG role, then possibly. It was clear that each time that Nash went to the bench, the Mavs offense suffered. People got a little carried away when Danials started tearing it up, but we lost at least 5 games because of our lack of a good backup PG to run our offense our way. Now does that make up for losing a 6'9" offensive machine off the bench? We will see, with Howard and maybe Stack able to take over that role, we might be fine.

Stressboy

[madape]

If we don't make another move this offseason, and only sign Steve and Marquis.


WE WILL BUST SOME BITCHES UP!

Laettner is BACK to drop multiple 15 footers on top of FOOLS HEADS.
Stackhouse is an ASSASIN.
Devin Harris will SLIT PEOPLES THROATS.
Bradley and Pavel will SWAT YO' SHIT.
Dirk and Nash will DROP BOMBS.
Finley will SMASH AND CRUSH.
Walker will throw out DIMES and lay triple dubs on our opponents STINKING NOGGINS..

It's good to be a Maverick fan

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Originally posted by: madape
If we don't make another move this offseason, and only sign Steve and Marquis.


WE WILL BUST SOME BITCHES UP!

Laettner is BACK to drop multiple 15 footers on top of FOOLS HEADS.
Stackhouse is an ASSASIN.
Devin Harris will SLIT PEOPLES THROATS.
Bradley and Pavel will SWAT YO' SHIT.
Dirk and Nash will DROP BOMBS.
Finley will SMASH AND CRUSH.
Walker will throw out DIMES and lay triple dubs on our opponents STINKING NOGGINS..

It's good to be a Maverick fan

Favorite Post of the Week

[chumdawg]

There's an HSO.

You GO, MapApe!!!! That just fired me up for the weekend right there....

[grndmstr_c]

my question is "is this lineup any better than last years?" I am seriously convinced that Walker will be gone, and that will make them better alone by forcing them to focus on Dirk, but is this proposed lineup any better?

I think it can be. You have to figure that Bradley will get more PT and Walker will get less (even if he stays - which wouldn't at all surprise me). We've got a backup pg that Nellie might actually give minutes to who's got talent on both ends of the court. Quis and JHo are both a year older. Laettner will help our center play just by virtue of the fact that he shouldn't be any worse defensively than Walker but unlike Walker can take and make the midrange jumper.

And oh yeah...Dirk will be our starting PF.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally posted by: madape
If we don't make another move this offseason, and only sign Steve and Marquis.


WE WILL BUST SOME BITCHES UP!

Laettner is BACK to drop multiple 15 footers on top of FOOLS HEADS.
Stackhouse is an ASSASIN.
Devin Harris will SLIT PEOPLES THROATS.
Bradley and Pavel will SWAT YO' SHIT.
Dirk and Nash will DROP BOMBS.
Finley will SMASH AND CRUSH.
Walker will throw out DIMES and lay triple dubs on our opponents STINKING NOGGINS..

It's good to be a Maverick fan

lol, madape I admire your enthusiasm and agree with you in the notion that it is GREAT to be a Mavs fan!

sidnote: ..let's try to move Walker though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

Random thought: People forget how often Jerry Stackhouse gets to the line. That would be incredibly valuable coming off the bench, even if he stays...

As for the Shaq talk, I'm with Stressboy. We acquired a bunch of pieces that allow us to make a good offer for him, IF the Lakers become reasonable. If not, I'm confident they'll find a way to acquire a starting center. Heck, if all they do from here until November is cut down the size of the roster and acquire Ostertag, I'm okay with that, because we'll still have pieces in place to make other moves.

And Stressboy was right about another thing. The future is now in place at the 1-4 positions. Harris, Daniels, Howard, Nowitzki is likely to be 4/5 of the starting unit in 4 years. And the future might be in place at the 5.

It's a beautiful day.

[sike]

said by c: And oh yeah...Dirk will be our starting PF.

this is worth a few wins alone.

[dirno2000]

Random thought: People forget how often Jerry Stackhouse gets to the line. That would be incredibly valuable coming off the bench, even if he stays...

FTA per game (career)
Stackhouse......7.6
Finley.....3.8

Not saying he's better or worse than Finley, just using Fin as a base.

[Dirkenstien]

lets not forget that we still have possibly the most valuable trading chip in the NBA this season to land a decent center if needbe. At this point I say no to a trade for Shaq that includes Dirk...if they want to do a deal with us then they will have to lower their price.

All in all..the mavericks as well as their fans are in a great situation. Lets sit back and enjoy this fellas.

[madape]

..let's try to move Walker though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Antoine Walker, Jerry Stackhouse, and Devin Harris coming off the bench? The only reason I can see anyone being opposed to this is if they were steadfastly against CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

[chumdawg]

Genius. A genuine laugh-out-loud moment.

Ahhhh, it's nice to be a Mavs fan right about now. Lady Luck is a troublesome mistress. She never completely gives you her love, but every once in a while she turns and smiles.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: madape

Antoine Walker, Jerry Stackhouse, and Devin Harris coming off the bench? The only reason I can see anyone being opposed to this is if they were steadfastly against CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

I'm firmly against poor shooters that don't play defense.