OFFICIAL GDT - COWBOYS vs GIANTS!!!

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Christmas wish: I want Tony Romo to connect with Roy Williams for at least ONE touchdown before the regular season ends (anyone notice that he tends to toss it out of bounds or over-throw Roy by about 10 yards every time he's wide open???)

I get the feeling those two just don't have their timing down. Btw, I heard that Roy isn't really practicing anymore due to his plantar fascitis. So if that's true, then I'm guessing that they aren't going to really develop a good rapport for the rest of this season, unfortunately.

[DirkFTW]

Nah, they just need a secret meeting or two and everything will be clicking.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mkat

I'd just love to see some proof that it was all made up, as TO says.

What about proof that it WASN'T made up???

Romo, Witten and T.O. looked pretty friendly with each other on the sidelines yesterday and the Cowboys organization (including Witten & Owens) deny the story up and down - it's Werder's "unnamed source" against the world...

[but you've already made up your mind who you want to believe...]

[jthig32]

You can't really tell me you think Ed Werder made up every single quote in that article. C'mon.

Of course they looked happy last night. They won the freaking game. They're not women (although TO reminds me of oen at time), they're not going to refuse to be seen in public together because they don't get along that well.

Now, did Ed Werder get those quotes from some scrub that has an axe to grind with TO? Maybe. But to sit here and act like Werder made this whole thing up, knowing that Wade Phillips called a team meeting to address the situation, and knowing TO's history, is incredibly naive.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You can't really tell me you think Ed Werder made up every single quote in that article. C'mon.

Of course they looked happy last night. They won the freaking game. They're not women (although TO reminds me of oen at time), they're not going to refuse to be seen in public together because they don't get along that well.

Now, did Ed Werder get those quotes from some scrub that has an axe to grind with TO? Maybe. But to sit here and act like Werder made this whole thing up, knowing that Wade Phillips called a team meeting to address the situation, and knowing TO's history, is incredibly naive.

Did I ever say Werder made it all up? (although the Cowboys organization certainly asserted that he did...)

I claimed that it was "his unnamed source's word against theirs" because this entire (non-)issue is based 100% on hearsay [but go ahead and lecture me about being naive when you're willing to believe one man's word over another's without a shred of evidence...]

[92bDad]

In order for Ed Werder's article to be true it has to be 100% true...if any part of the article is NOT based on fact, then by definition it is a LIE!!!

When someone reports partial truths, then they are reporting lies, such is the case with Ed Werder.

Now I wish people would get off of T.O.'s case...I know he's a big boy and he can take care of himself, but I'm just tired of how ignorant the haters are making themselves look.

When has T.O. ever broken the law? T.O. is a competitor who simply wants to win...he demands much of himself and those around him.

Somehow T.O. and players can be criticized, politicians can be criticized...but oh my, dare we every criticize a journalist...what are reporters the new GOD's of the world?

Skip Bayless got run out of Dallas for his Hack Job as a reporter, it may be time to run Werder out of Dallas.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

In order for Ed Werder's article to be true it has to be 100% true...if any part of the article is NOT based on fact, then by definition it is a LIE!!!

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "lie" - it's just half-assed journalism (any reporter can make a mistake...)

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Did I ever say Werder made it all up? (although the Cowboys organization certainly asserted that he did...)

I claimed that it was "his unnamed source's word against theirs" because this entire (non-)issue is based 100% on hearsay [but go ahead and lecture me about being naive when you're willing to believe one man's word over another's without a shred of evidence...]

And you continue to believe what makes you feel better about your team and its players. If this were TO on the Eagles I suspect you'd have a different take on believing "one man's word".

I guess the FWST also made up the meeting the receivers had to complain about Romo. And they also made up the "heated exchange" between Witten and TO. And Wade Phllips had a team meeting simply to discuss all the lies from the media.

Right.

Now, if you want to make a legitimate argument, you can say that these kinds of things almost certainly happen on every team, at some point in every season. That I can get on board with.

But the idea that the media made this up, or that the Cowboys are more likely to tell you the truth on their internal strife than a reporter, is ridiculous.

[Murphy3]

Some of you are nothing more than a fool a best.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

fair enough. i thought it was just a crappy play on his part, but had it been later in the game he might have been a little less likely to make such a bonehead crappy play.

Personally, I think you were right the first time. I disagree with dirno here. It looked pretty clear to me that TO was trying to avoid being hit head-on by the 2-3 Giants defenders that were standing right past the first down line.

Ultimately he did slip, but the reason he slipped is because he hesitated about plowing forward and taking the contact.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

And you continue to believe what makes you feel better about your team and its players. If this were TO on the Eagles I suspect you'd have a different take on believing "one man's word".

And you continue to believe whatever drama ESPN hypes up about T.O. (which gets more & more ridiculous as he continues to NOT blow this team up - you guys must be so let down!)

[Windmill360]

Now, if you want to make a legitimate argument, you can say that these kinds of thing you can say that these kinds of things almost certainly happen on every team, at some point in every season.

This.

Some of you are nothing more than a fool a best.

thanks.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

And you continue to believe whatever drama ESPN hypes up about T.O. (which gets more & more ridiculous as he continues to NOT blow this team up - you guys must be so let down!)

I don't get it. I defend TO to a lot of people. I argue that he's worth the trouble. But I don't understand the psyche of fans that refuse to believe that someone with TO's track record would do the things he was reported to have done last week. But hey, it was all McNabb's fault in Philly, right?

TO is a child. Someone finally got fed up enough to complain about him. Why on earth would that surprise anyone, and if ESPN (and Ed Werder) was willing to simply fabricate this story and all those quotes from thin air, they would have done it before now.

Is it ripping the team apart? I doubt it. But let's flame out in (or before) the playoffs one more time and see how TO and the rest of the team get along.

[ty]

Murph, to answer you from the "Shoe" thread.

I think Ed Werder's goal is to unravel some kind of story that brings negative attention to the Cowboys.

I can't blame him for it, because the Cowboys are the most covered sports team in US (Yes--Above the Yankees too), and negative attention is what gets the story.

Nobody wants the every day positive story, because...well, it can only bring in so much attention.

Werder is what he is. Ever since unraveling the whole Jerry/Jimmy drama, he's been a whore for trying to unravel something else about the Boys. He tried to get at a story with Parcells/TO, and now he's moving on to something different.

Once again, I don't think I can blame him for trying to milk the Cowboys for every cent they're worth--it's pretty smart what he does. Although, I am very annoyed by him and any article he puts out about our beloved franchise.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't get it. I defend TO to a lot of people. I argue that he's worth the trouble. But I don't understand the psyche of fans that refuse to believe that someone with TO's track record would do the things he was reported to have done last week. But hey, it was all McNabb's fault in Philly, right?

TO is a child. Someone finally got fed up enough to complain about him. Why on earth would that surprise anyone, and if ESPN (and Ed Werder) was willing to simply fabricate this story and all those quotes from thin air, they would have done it before now.

Is it ripping the team apart? I doubt it. But let's flame out in (or before) the playoffs one more time and see how TO and the rest of the team get along.

Just because something is believable doesn't mean it's true...

Does T.O. have a history of drama? Yes, but not with the Cowboys...

Here's another question - does ESPN have a tendency of bashing the Cowboys at every turn? (because you can't deny that they're frothing at the mouth for the day that T.O. rips this team in half so they can scream "I told you so!")


Like I said before - it's a matter of hearsay - you're a fool to believe one side or the other without some sort of tangible evidence (and that's the only point I've made - I asked questions, but never made claims...)

I have no idea if this non-issue happened or not, but considering we just kicked the crap out of the best team in the NFL, I'm gonna say it DOESN'T MATTER!

[jthig32]

TO does have a history of drama with the Cowboys....

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

TO does have a history of drama with the Cowboys....

You forgot to add "I rest my case" (because you certainly convinced me!)

[Flacolaco]

Do some of you find that no matter which team you root for, the media always seems to be against you?

Weird.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You forgot to add "I rest my case" (because you certainly convinced me!)

Well...he has, no?

Not to the level of Philly and San Fran, but that went a bit beyond "drama".

If TO's time here hasn't included drama I'm not sure what you consider drama.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Do some of you find that no matter which team you root for, the media always seems to be against you?

Weird.

Don't front...

The Cowboys are like GW Bush - you either love 'em or hate 'em (and like Bush, most people hate 'em... Except for when they're winning!)

The only other team that gets as much unfair criticism as the Cowboys is the Yankees - this ain't news, so don't pretend like it is...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Don't front...

The Cowboys are like GW Bush - you either love 'em or hate 'em (and like Bush, most people hate 'em... Except for when they're winning!)

The only other team that gets as much unfair criticism as the Cowboys is the Yankees - this ain't news, so don't pretend like it is...

There's no doubt that the Cowboys get hate. But do you realize the Eagles fans said all the same things? I used to work with (and still talk to) a big time Eagles fan. He still blames Irvin and his "how many wins would you have if Brett Favre was your QB" interview for what hapened in Philly.

Tons of fans for every team are convinced that ESPN and every other sports media outlet hates them.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well...he has, no?

Not to the level of Philly and San Fran, but that went a bit beyond "drama".

If TO's time here hasn't included drama I'm not sure what you consider drama.

I have yet to see T.O.'s "drama" translate into a bad game for the Cowboys (he's no Plaxico, that's for sure...)

What drama are you referring to, anyway?

[mkat]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What about proof that it WASN'T made up???

Romo, Witten and T.O. looked pretty friendly with each other on the sidelines yesterday and the Cowboys organization (including Witten & Owens) deny the story up and down - it's Werder's "unnamed source" against the world...

[but you've already made up your mind who you want to believe...]

Ed Werder had a direct quote from Bradie James about James having to moderate that stuff when it really flares up between TO and Witten/Romo/whoever.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

In order for Ed Werder's article to be true it has to be 100% true...if any part of the article is NOT based on fact, then by definition it is a LIE!!!

When someone reports partial truths, then they are reporting lies, such is the case with Ed Werder.

Now I wish people would get off of T.O.'s case...I know he's a big boy and he can take care of himself, but I'm just tired of how ignorant the haters are making themselves look.

When has T.O. ever broken the law? T.O. is a competitor who simply wants to win...he demands much of himself and those around him.

Somehow T.O. and players can be criticized, politicians can be criticized...but oh my, dare we every criticize a journalist...what are reporters the new GOD's of the world?

Skip Bayless got run out of Dallas for his Hack Job as a reporter, it may be time to run Werder out of Dallas.

how old are you? do you know anything about how professional journalism works? If Werder is making up things/lies, he gets fired and ESPN takes a huge blow. Werder is a respected sports journalist. Also, if one or more of his unnamed sources was a new source he hasn't used before, it's possible he was burned by said source. That's not his fault.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by mkat

how old are you? do you know anything about how professional journalism works? If Werder is making up things/lies, he gets fired and ESPN takes a huge blow. Werder is a respected sports journalist. Also, if one or more of his unnamed sources was a new source he hasn't used before, it's possible he was burned by said source. That's not his fault.

mkat, you want to know my age...I'm 40 years old.

Over the years, I have observed the sensationalism of reporting get worse and worse.

Ed Werder is respected...you know what, nearly every member of the media is respected and much like Referee's appear to be 'Hands Off' as it relates to criticism.

Yes, I know a thing or two about journalism and the fact that they use words to create a certain mood or theme to a story being reported.

Could Ed Werder have reported his understanding of the events last week in a way that didn't create a negative buzz?

How about, "T.O.'s leadership helps to address some offensive concerns with the Cowboys as they prepare for a key game against the Giants"

That states the same thing as the negative crap that came out last week. Think about it...the facts are that Cowboys players had meetings with coaches to address some concerns about how things were playing out on the field.

But Ed Werder, ESPN and others had to spin this into "Turmoil in Dallas" - "Fueding players in the locker room" ... on and on...

Then when there is something positive to report on the subject, if they don't like the subject they neglect the positive report.

Case in point...Iraq...How much Negative reporting did we see on Iraq prior to the surge...the surge was successful and Iraq is in better shape today that it has been in years, all the way back to PRE-Sadam days...yet do we see ANY reports on the subject...NO, that would require giving President Bush credit for getting it right in Iraq, which is counter Liberal Media interest.

The same applies to sports reporting...The Cowboys won, there is no turmoil, the meetings actually resulted in a positive turn of events as Romo hid 9 different receivers in the game. Will Ed Werder and ESPN give kudos to T.O. for his leadership in helping the TEAM reach its goal of winning this week? No, they wont, that would hurt the credibility of Ed Werder.

A half-truth is a LIE, period, plain and simple.

To say that a woman was hurt in her house, is a half-truth and a lie...when the full truth was that a woman was abused by her husband and sustained broken bones in a recent domestic violence altercation.

Can you see how telling a half-truth can mislead the readers?

What about if the story read that "Her husband was drunk and she sustained life-threatening injuries" -

Do you jump to a conclusion that the husband did something?

When the real story is that the Husband was drunk and passed out at home, while his wife drove to the store and had a car accident, needing to be medevaced to a local hospital.

The husband hand NOTHING to do with the 2nd story, but we as readers jump to pre-misconceptions when we only get HALF-Truths.

Ultimately, the cause of a half-truth is the same as that of a LIE.

But hey, they are journalist and we are the consumers, ESPN is the Golden Cow and we must kneal down before them and be thankful for thier almighty wisdom.

Journalist are UNTOUCHABLE!!!

Players are scum and fans are idiots!!!

[ty]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Tons of fans for every team are convinced that ESPN and every other sports media outlet hates them.

I can't agree with that.

No team besides the Yankees receives as much attention as the Cowboys. While other teams may receive some negative publicity, they certainly don't receive it to the same consistency that the Cowboys do.

Negative publicity can be a real b*tch when it's at a high frequency.

We're talking about the most valuable football (and arguably sports) franchise in the US.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I have yet to see T.O.'s "drama" translate into a bad game for the Cowboys (he's no Plaxico, that's for sure...)

What drama are you referring to, anyway?

You have no idea how his drama has effected the team. You have no clue if Garrett draws up gameplans to force him the ball when he's had a particularly moody week. We as fans don't see any of that.

I have always defended TO as being worth the trouble, but I certainly don't beleive that his ego and lack of maturity has hurt this team at times.

[Murphy3]

I believe that things were probably blown out of proportion... That will happen when TO and the Cowboys are involved. Everything he and the Cowboys do will come under a tremendous spotlight. But, I seriously doubt that Werder made anything up.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by ty

I can't agree with that.

No team besides the Yankees receives as much attention as the Cowboys. While other teams may receive some negative publicity, they certainly don't receive it to the same consistency that the Cowboys do.

Negative publicity can be a real b*tch when it's at a high frequency.

We're talking about the most valuable football (and arguably sports) franchise in the US.

I'm not denying how much attention the Cowboys receive. The fact remains, there are fans of every sports franchise in the U.S. that are fully convinved that media outlet _____ hates their team. It's a fact.

[ty]

I don't believe he made anything up, either.

I do, however, believe that he presented the situation in a negative light, that caused it to be blown out of proportion.

Props, though. He'll probably get a huge Christmas bonus for the jump in webtraffic to ESPN's website.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by ty

I don't believe he made anything up, either.

I do, however, believe that he presented the situation in a negative light, that caused it to be blown out of proportion.

Props, though. He'll probably get a huge Christmas bonus for the jump in webtraffic to ESPN's website.

How should he have presented those quotes?

[ty]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not denying how much attention the Cowboys receive. The fact remains, there are fans of every sports franchise in the U.S. that are fully convinved that media outlet _____ hates their team. It's a fact.

Since we were initially talking about hate, I was simply referring to the "degree" of hate that the Cowboys receive.

Because of the surplus of attention this franchise receives, the degree of hate appears much higher, than it would for...say, the Eagles.

[ty]

Originally Posted by jthig32

How should he have presented those quotes?

I think 92bdad presents a pretty interesting way to present it, if you want to read his novel in post #305...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by ty

I think 92bdad presents a pretty interesting way to present it, if you want to read his novel in post #305...

I'm going to try and pretend you didn't actually just say that.

[ty]

[Murphy3]

....it wasn't blown out of proportion because of the way he reported it. It was blown out of proportion because it involved TO, Romo, and the Cowboys.

Blaming this on Werder is just dumb.

[92bDad]

+ rep to TY and JTHIG32!!!

Ha, I kill me!!!

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Personally, I think you were right the first time. I disagree with dirno here. It looked pretty clear to me that TO was trying to avoid being hit head-on by the 2-3 Giants defenders that were standing right past the first down line.

Ultimately he did slip, but the reason he slipped is because he hesitated about plowing forward and taking the contact.

Of course he was trying to avoid contact. That's you you turn a 12 yard first down into a 52 yard touchdown. You avoid getting tackled.

The question is, was he avoiding the contact because he was afraid to take hit or because he saw a cutback lane. My thought is if he didn't want to take the hit there was an easy way out. All he had to do was dive forward towards the first down marker. Players do it all the time. The don't fall 3 yards in from of the nearest defender.

The outcome was unfortunate but I can't be mad a him for trying to make a play. Especially when so much of his success has been a result of YAC.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Of course he was trying to avoid contact. That's you you turn a 12 yard first down into a 52 yard touchdown. You avoid getting tackled.

The question is, was he avoiding the contact because he was afraid to take hit or because he saw a cutback lane. My thought is if he didn't want to take the hit there was an easy way out. All he had to do was dive forward towards the first down marker. Players do it all the time. The don't fall 3 yards in from of the nearest defender.

The outcome was unfortunate but I can't be mad a him for trying to make a play. Especially when so much of his success has been a result of YAC.

There was a Giants defender directly in front of him, about half a yard behind the marker, as I recall. It sure looked to me like he didn't want to dive into him and get hit.

Even if you're right, and he was just trying to extend the play, that's still the wrong move. When you're a yard away from a 1st down, you make absolutely sure you have the first down before you start trying to extend the play into something more. You don't cut back and try to do something fancy before your forward progress has carried you past the marker.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There was a Giants defender directly in front of him, about half a yard behind the marker, as I recall. It sure looked to me like he didn't want to dive into him and get hit.

Even if you're right, and he was just trying to extend the play, that's still the wrong move. When you're a yard away from a 1st down, you make absolutely sure you have the first down before you start trying to extend the play into something more. You don't cut back and try to do something fancy before your forward progress has carried you past the marker.

We'll have to disagree there. Milking the clock in the 4th, by all means get the first down. As far as I'm concerned that was an acceptable risk in the 3rd quarter of a 7-3 game around mid field. It wasn't even 3rd down.

The upside is that you break a big one and take control of the game. If it doesn't work you're looking at a 3rd and short in good punting position.