Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

bobatundi · 05-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Dirk is obviously staying, as he's Dirk--and even if a great deal was out there for Dirk, Cuban just loves the guy too much.

Terry probably stays due to his contract, and I don't think that is an awful thing. He's a terrific 6th man to have--offensive weapon off the bench, deep threat, can play limited minutes at the PG spot in a pinch. The problem isn't Terry, it's that our 6th man--a role he fills well--is counted on to be our 2nd option. 6th man should be 5th/6th best player on your team.

Kidd: I think we bring Kidd back, because all it takes is money, which we have. If Kidd really wants to go to LA or Cleveland, then we do our damndest to work a S&T, for either Ariza (LA) or Varejao (Cle), as either guy makes us younger, more athletic, and better defensively.

Bass: probably returns as our "energy" guy in the frontcourt. Solid player, like having him coming off the bench.

Singleton: liked what I saw, but probably not in the cards. Some other team will be able to give him a bigger role, assuming the Mavs make the upgrades I want them to make at the front of the rotation.

Hollins: bring him back on the cheap as your backup C, unless you get Varejao.

Barea: returns as well. I like the kid...as long as he's our 12th man. Good third-string PG.

George: gone. If he picks up his option, waive him.

Williams: gone. Either included to make numbers work in a trade, or just cut. Better off giving his roster space to someone who might contribute.

Green: sorry kid. it's just not going to work out. maybe if we have an open 15th slot on the roster.

Wright: not opposed to keeping him, in a smaller role. still young, solid defender, cheap contract.

Stackhouse: the most valuable trade asset in the NBA this offseason. Move him for something good, please, Mavs.

Dampier: his expiring also makes him a pretty valuable trade commodity, and I think it's time for this team to try some other options at the C spot. I happen to like Damp more than most people on this board, I think, but his time here is over. Not athletic enough, and an absolute liability on the offensive end.

Carroll: Obviously didn't give us what we hoped for...but then again, he got us out of paying Diop, so that's a plus. His declining contract may actually have some value in a trade, if we use it along with some expiring pieces to take on a bigger deal. Remember, he costs LESS every year, so trading him straight up for another player with the same salary and same number of years actually saves that other team considerable cash.

Josh Howard: this is the hardest call for me to make; I'm a huge Wake fan and loved Josh his first couple years. He showed some guts in the playoffs, playing on some bad wheels. The good news there is, he probably increased his value a bit--and him being an expiring increases his value further. Not a great shooter, not the slasher he used to be, overrated defensively, and worst of all, a mental midget (with apologies to midgets). Time for Josh to go, and we should be able to get something of value for him.

I'm thinking we'll have around seven guys return, meaning we'll have a lot of available roster spots. How do we fill them out?

Top needs:
Starting C
Starting 2
Wing to replace Josh
Starting PG (or backup to Kidd who becomes starter in the future)

One of the guys at 2/3--if not both--needs to be a defensive stopper.

So who do we go after? Some possibilities

S&T Kidd for Ariza
Trade Damp & Stack to money-conscious New Orleans for Chandler (they've already tried once to dump him) and Posey
Full MLE to Felton, I doubt the Bobcats match
Trade Josh & Carroll to Milwaukee for Redd. Saves the Bucks $8MM in salary over the lives of all the contracts, more if they can move Carroll some time in the next few years or buy him out.

Lineup:
PG Felton/Terry/Barea
SG Redd/Terry/Posey
SF Ariza/Posey
PF Dirk/Bass
C Chandler/Hollins

Fill in the rest with complementary parts at vet minimum and with 1st round pick, if we don't have to use it to make one of those other deals work. Maybe try to buy an extra first rounder for cash, too. Could go after Ty Lawson as future PG.

sike · 05-14-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Yea, if I see him pass up one more wide open layup to dish the ball to the perimeter my remote is going through the tv.

no dobut. is his self confidence really so low?

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Sometimes I play a character called, "Doesn't get sarcasm guy"...its a hit with the ladies.

OMG - that's you???

(my mom looooves you!)

Kidd Karma · 05-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Offseason goal #1, go after Bosh, all in Damp, JHo, or Terry and 2012 1st rounder, along with this year's first rounder)
Resign Kidd, Hollins
Trade for RJ or Butler using Stack's buyout as the enticement.
Fill the gap with the MLE and remaining trade chips, (Bass or Carroll or Williams).

RJ or Butler, Dirk, Bosh, Kidd, MLE
Singleton, McDyess(vet minimum), Hollins, Barea, Wright(for now, could see a decent return for Bass for the backup 2 guard.)

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

Are these relative compared to Dirk?

In terms of self-performance, I would have to say Barea and Singleton completely exceeded expectations.

The others are more or less accurate .. I'd be less forgiving on George and go ahead and tag him with the F.

I'd probably only be willing to go up the next degree for each guy. But their weaknesses are just as big as their strengths. B- sounds about right for Barea. Singleton is really iffy with scoring outside of 3 feet. And he's defense can be really bad, he can't guard 3s.

Carlisle gets an A- from me, BTW.
Very good job managing the team and making sure they listen and execute at key times.

alexamenos · 05-14-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

in reality?
Everyone will stay, and there will be no major changes.

Why? Because, "We still like our team. We were 1 bad call and 2 bad ankles from the WCF." Bank on it.

unfortunate but not doubtful.

They're nothing special and to make matters worse Cuban and Lil' Nellie are convinced they're oh so close. I'm going get back on my soap box pretty soon, but this is it in a nutshell.

Kidd Karma · 05-14-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

Are these relative compared to Dirk?

In terms of self-performance, I would have to say Barea and Singleton completely exceeded expectations.

The others are more or less accurate .. I'd be less forgiving on George and go ahead and tag him with the F.

Forgot about George, is he on a player option, I guess it's another chip if he picks up the option.

sike · 05-14-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

OMG - that's you???

(my mom looooves you!)

told ya...loves me.

sike · 05-14-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

unfortunate but not doubtful.

They're nothing special and to make matters worse Cuban and Lil' Nellie are convinced they're oh so close. I'm going get back on my soap box pretty soon, but this is it in a nutshell.

nope. call it reading the signs of the times or blind hopeful optimism...but something is going down this off season.

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Forgot about George, is he on a player option, I guess it's another chip if he picks up the option.

Yeah he's got a PO for next year...so...yeah.
It might be a chip, but are you going to run into the same veto power as you did with the Kidd deal?

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

nope. call it reading the signs of the times or blind hopeful optimism...but something is going down this off season.

How many years in a row can you say "we like our team" and fail?

This was a do-or-die year for this squad and we certainly didn't "do"...

Let the heads roll...

alexamenos · 05-14-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

How many years in a row can you say "we like our team" and fail?

This was a do-or-die year for this squad and we certainly didn't "do"...

Let the heads roll...

I'll believe it when I see it.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-14-2009, 01:58 PM

Can one of the mods merge the two threads please? It's a bit confusing having two offseason threads.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I'll believe it when I see it.

indeed.....and you shall. I feel it in the force.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:09 PM

I don't understand the focus on Bosh. He's a high post player, meaning he mostly operates offensively in the same areas as Dirk.

He's an athletic guy and would probably defend the rim enough to get by, but a front line of Dirk and Bosh doesn't really give me enough defense, and Bosh doesn't bring enough post presence to offset the loss in defense.

It's just a square peg in a round hole, in my opinion.

LonghornDub · 05-14-2009, 02:11 PM

I don't believe that Cuban, nor Nellie Jr., nor any of them have actually believed that the Mavs are "so close", at least since the 2007 playoffs. That's something you say: 1) as a defensive mechanism, and 2) to keep yourself from appearing desperate.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Carlisle has never been a GM so there's not much of a track record to go on. I doubt Cuban's happy about the prospect of spending $2.4MM on Shawn Williams next year and that was probably a Carlisle trade.

Shawn Williams is a 2.4 mil expiring trade filler contract.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:12 PM

I'm not sure that Bosh isn't a good enough defender...do you feel pretty confident about that thiggy? I think of him as a good defender...but that opinion comes without a ton of viewing.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-14-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand the focus on Bosh. He's a high post player, meaning he mostly operates offensively in the same areas as Dirk.

He's an athletic guy and would probably defend the rim enough to get by, but a front line of Dirk and Bosh doesn't really give me enough defense, and Bosh doesn't bring enough post presence to offset the loss in defense.

It's just a square peg in a round hole, in my opinion.

I agree. As far as 5's go, Shaq probably is the best option, but I really wish we could get some helpside defense up in here.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:15 PM

then again the question remains...when does Shaq become next to useless...with our luck, its whatever season we finally stop talking about acquiring him and actually do.

I love Shaq...but lets get younger and the important money spots.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Barea: returns as well. I like the kid...as long as he's our 12th man. Good third-string PG.

Um..what?

JJ Barea is an above average backup PG. He is no third stringer or 12th man.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Um..what?

JJ Barea is an above average backup PG. He is no third stringer or 12th man.

he can be my back up pg...which means he totally proved me wrong from earlier in this season.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I'm not sure that Bosh isn't a good enough defender...do you feel pretty confident about that thiggy? I think of him as a good defender...but that opinion comes without a ton of viewing.

I think of him as a fair enough PF defender.

As a Center defender/rim defender? I don't think he kills you, but I don't think he brings anything significant either.

With me it's more about his offense. He just isn't the inside player we need. He duplicates many things Dirk does, only not nearly as well.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

he can be my back up pg...which means he totally proved me wrong from earlier in this season.

Me too. I said, unequivocally, that he was not an NBA caliber player early this season.

I was completely wrong.

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand the focus on Bosh. He's a high post player, meaning he mostly operates offensively in the same areas as Dirk.

He's an athletic guy and would probably defend the rim enough to get by, but a front line of Dirk and Bosh doesn't really give me enough defense, and Bosh doesn't bring enough post presence to offset the loss in defense.

It's just a square peg in a round hole, in my opinion.

That's why I'm really concerned about that being the first option to go for via trade, I just don't know if it's a fit. Can it be a fit? I think it could. I just don't know if it will work though. I mean, there aren't that many big centers left in the league, ones that can demoralize guys like Bosh. I'd much rather have had a guy like Bosh in this series vs Nene. Someone who has some experience and is long, athletic and can keep up with Nene a lot better. I'm not saying we need to use Nene as our new frame of reference for a Center...but the Center position itself isn't the same as it was 10 years ago. Other than 2 years ago...he's been a very stout guy on the boards.

As for offense, I can't pull up the stats I wanna find on NBA.com for his hot spots.

-----

Not that it really matters but I believe it was fish (from db.com) was on ESPN 103.3 today and he pretty much mentioned Chandler, Shaq and Bosh as the primary guys Dallas should look at with trades.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

With me it's more about his offense. He just isn't the inside player we need. He duplicates many things Dirk does, only not nearly as well.

he is still a young stud pf just entering his prime...which means Dirk could slide to #2 option in a couple years as Both really takes center stage.

I might be naive, but I think they play opposite side of the floor and make it work...two guys as good of "team guys" as Both and Dirk would be happy to make it work. Kidd would see to it as well.

But your point is well taken.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:24 PM

Let me be clear on Bosh: I'm not against going after him. The guy is a very good, all star caliber big man. I would be excited if we swung a reasonable trade for him.

But, in my opinion, there are better options out there. Contracts and future considerations aside, I would MUCH rather have a Vince Carter than a Chris Bosh. A slashing, creating, scoring SG/SF that can score in bunches and create for himself late in games would be a much more obvious upgrade to this team, in my opinion.

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 02:25 PM

I lost track of the Bosh talk through the thread merge, but now it's starting to make sense again - seems like many of you are in agreement that he'd be mostly redundant with Dirk on the floor (that's what I was thinking too, but I hadn't seen enough Raptors games to tell if I was missing something about him...)

When you break down what his ROLE would be on Dirk's Mavs: Bosh = Bass (basically)

Flacolaco · 05-14-2009, 02:26 PM

I heard Bosh was signing with the Lakers or the Celtics for $119 and a fish sandwich.

(That's all I've got. I'm bitter today)

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

he is still a young stud pf just entering his prime...which means Dirk could slide to #2 option in a couple years as Both really takes center stage.

I might be naive, but I think they play opposite side of the floor and make it work...two guys as good of "team guys" as Both and Dirk would be happy to make it work. Kidd would see to it as well.

But your point is well taken.

I can see that point about the team guys...I think Dirk actually broke out of that more in this series. He just wanted the ball more and more and there were times where there wasn't any need to call a play: just give it to him on the block or ISO at the FT-Line.

It's kind of awkward to say, I don't even know how to really say it:
We have a bunch of team-player like guys and are unselfish...maybe we need 1 or 2 guys who aren't. Guys that are just ready to take over a game and can actually do it when it's absolutely necessary. That might be a heavy extreme, but it still falls in line that Dirk needs serious help.

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Let me be clear on Bosh: I'm not against going after him. The guy is a very good, all star caliber big man. I would be excited if we swung a reasonable trade for him.

But, in my opinion, there are better options out there. Contracts and future considerations aside, I would MUCH rather have a Vince Carter than a Chris Bosh. A slashing, creating, scoring SG/SF that can score in bunches and create for himself late in games would be a much more obvious upgrade to this team, in my opinion.

Carter and Kidd together again? It certainly would "fit" better...but it also limits our timetable of quality hoops. Carter has what...2-3 more good to great seasons tops?

I do love Carter's game...

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Carter and Kidd together again? It certainly would "fit" better...but it also limits our timetable of quality hoops. Carter has what...2-3 more good to great seasons tops?

I do love Carter's game...

We only have 2-3 seasons with Dirk anyway - if we don't make a serious championship push within that window, then he'll probably pull a Garnett and join a team that IS serious about going all the way...

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 02:33 PM

1 thing I told sike was I do like our chances in making the right decisions a little more because Carlisle is going to have a little more say in the process...at least I HOPE he would. He's a smart guy and I trust his judgment.

jthig32 · 05-14-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Carter and Kidd together again? It certainly would "fit" better...but it also limits our timetable of quality hoops. Carter has what...2-3 more good to great seasons tops?

I do love Carter's game...

Well here's the thing: Do you think Bosh is going to develop into a franchise quality star? The kind of guy that can be the best player on a championship team?

Because I don't. I think he's a very good player. He'll be a perennial all star. But he's the second best player on a championship quality team, imo.

So I'd rather chase a better short term fix for two or three seasons and then blow everything up than take the safer approach.

BTW, I have totally missed you. </gayness>

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's kind of awkward to say, I don't even know how to really say it:
We have a bunch of team-player like guys and are unselfish...maybe we need 1 or 2 guys who aren't. Guys that are just ready to take over a game and can actually do it when it's absolutely necessary. That might be a heavy extreme, but it still falls in line that Dirk needs serious help.

thats a good thing, BG....having a guy who wants to and loves to "take over" in the clutch is very needed on every team....as long as he has the skill to pull it off consistently.

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well here's the thing: Do you think Bosh is going to develop into a franchise quality star? The kind of guy that can be the best player on a championship team?

Because I don't. I think he's a very good player. He'll be a perennial all star. But he's the second best player on a championship quality team, imo.

So I'd rather chase a better short term fix for two or three seasons and then blow everything up than take the safer approach.

BTW, I have totally missed you. </gayness>

That's what I've been asking myself too. I mentioned it before this got merged. Bosh is going to be due for a big extension, that's basically making him the star in waiting when it's Dirk's time (whenever that is).
Are we ready right now to say that's a good idea? If the answer is no or I dunno...probably not the right idea to go for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

thats a good thing, BG....having a guy who wants to and loves to "take over" in the clutch is very needed on every team....as long as he has the skill to pull it off consistently.

That's the tough part right there.

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

BTW, I have totally missed you. </gayness>

It always seems so easy to "get behind" Sike...

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well here's the thing: Do you think Bosh is going to develop into a franchise quality star? The kind of guy that can be the best player on a championship team?

Because I don't. I think he's a very good player. He'll be a perennial all star. But he's the second best player on a championship quality team, imo.

So I'd rather chase a better short term fix for two or three seasons and then blow everything up than take the safer approach.

BTW, I have totally missed you. </gayness>

I agree that Both isn't a top 10-15 guy...but by the time Dirk drops off the planet and we have all that Dirk money free...With Both, we've already got a GREAT #2 in place.

Or do you feel that there is a #1 type guy we could go after this off season who is still on the youngish side? (I ask, bc Cuban has said he is interested in getting a youngish all star)

I do love me some thiggy. I've missed a handful of the posters here...

Underdog · 05-14-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's what I've been asking myself too. I mentioned it before this got merged. Bosh is going to be due for a big extension, that's basically making him the star in waiting when it's Dirk's time (whenever that is).
Are we ready right now to say that's a good idea? If the answer is no or I dunno...probably not the right idea to go for him.

If Bosh has the skills to become a franchise player, then we should grab him then trade Dirk for more players to build around Bosh...

If what I just said sounds bat-sh!t crazy, then we might need to search for other options than Bosh...

sike · 05-14-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It always seems so easy to "get behind" Sike...

you, sir, are a cad! thats right...a CAD!