Do you let Ellis walk in the Summer? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Melonhead · 03-12-2015, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Beverly is a dirty scumbag. He makes Bruce Bowen look like a saint.

You know how there are some players that you cant stand to play against but you'd love him if he was on your team?

Beverly isnt one of those guys. I would despise him regardless.

Kante · 03-12-2015, 12:57 PM

Beverly is horrible. Overrated on D, bad on O and dirty (+ a flopper) (think there was already a discussion). So, i don't want him on the Mavs.

Tough to find players that are available and can help the Mavs.

Five-ofan · 03-12-2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You know how there are some players that you cant stand to play against but you'd love him if he was on your team?

Beverly isnt one of those guys. I would despise him regardless.

Oh I despise the guy but a) it's really what I think well do and b) I think it's a good idea. He can knock down an open three at a respectable if not gravity inducing rate.(and he takes enough that his 36% matters) he doesn't need the ball allowing us to go back to allowing monta to play with the ball in his hands a lot but with a good defensive pg. and no matter how he gets there(yes he's dirty and yes he flops) he's an elite defensive pg. Paul is the best defensive pg in the league. Conley is second, Bradley or smart whichever one you call the pg is probably 3rd and Beverley is at least as good as anyone else.

bvbull200 · 03-12-2015, 02:54 PM

Dark horse possibility: Dirk realizes he just doesn't have it anymore and retires, freeing up another $8MM to spend.

Unlikely? Sure. Impossible? After the last couple of months, I don't think so.

Five-ofan · 03-12-2015, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvbull200

Dark horse possibility: Dirk realizes he just doesn't have it anymore and retires, freeing up another $8MM to spend.

Unlikely? Sure. Impossible? After the last couple of months, I don't think so.

As bad as dirk has been recently, he's still pretty easily been worth 8mil. Fire the fitness coordinator we hired let him get back to shooting/conditioning instead of weights and have a good year

MavzMan · 03-12-2015, 03:24 PM

I love Ellis and wish nothing the best for him, but I'd rather see him go. As previously posted, it's much easier finding a SG (with bad defense) than a PG.

I keep Rondo because I think we've only seen 50% of what he truly does which is defense and make shots for other players.

We need ...
1) Reliable scoring from ALL the players. Dirk and Monta are both killing our offense right now and neither show any signs of figuring it out.
2) Strong defense which Rondo gives us our best chance at with the PG position compared to UFAs.
3) Teamwork which RC needs to figure out with a consistent group of guys throughout the entire season.
4) Donnie needs to draft a quality player(s) in last 1st or early 2nd round.

bvbull200 · 03-12-2015, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

As bad as dirk has been recently, he's still pretty easily been worth 8mil. Fire the fitness coordinator we hired let him get back to shooting/conditioning instead of weights and have a good year

It isn't a matter of whether or not he is worth $8MM (and it isn't a slam dunk that he has been since the All-Star break), it is a matter of whether or not Dirk thinks he can get himself to a point that he thinks he can contribute at a level HE thinks he needs to in order to keep playing.

Like I said, I don't think it is likely he'll retire. Highly unlikely, actually. I just don't think it is an impossibility any longer.

Sportstudi · 03-12-2015, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You know how there are some players that you cant stand to play against but you'd love him if he was on your team?

Beverly isnt one of those guys. I would despise him regardless.

Same here. I would have a damn hard time to cheer for him if he was a Mav. Seriously, I'm not sure how I would handle this. I can't stand his behavior on the court.

Five-ofan · 03-12-2015, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I love Ellis and wish nothing the best for him, but I'd rather see him go. As previously posted, it's much easier finding a SG (with bad defense) than a PG.

I keep Rondo because I think we've only seen 50% of what he truly does which is defense and make shots for other players.

We need ...
1) Reliable scoring from ALL the players. Dirk and Monta are both killing our offense right now and neither show any signs of figuring it out.
2) Strong defense which Rondo gives us our best chance at with the PG position compared to UFAs.
3) Teamwork which RC needs to figure out with a consistent group of guys throughout the entire season.
4) Donnie needs to draft a quality player(s) in last 1st or early 2nd round.

I hesitate to say this because association doesn't equal causation but having rondo at the point pretty much limits your offensive ceiling to league average. He's not good enough defensively to make up for that

Melonhead · 03-12-2015, 07:14 PM

I just feel Rondo is living off of reputation. His passes are nifty, and he can play above average defense.

He had THREE HOF to pass to. All in their respective primes. Anyone should be averaging a good number of assists in that position. How do you spend your entire career not improving your jump shot. There isnt a single player in the league that cocks their elbow out, yet you continue to do it and not try and improve?

markus1234 · 03-12-2015, 07:22 PM

Rondo's road to championship...

Mike Bibby (ATL) Chauncy Billups (DET) Delonte West (CLE) Derek Fisher (LAL)

jay3189 · 03-12-2015, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Monta is like OJ Mayo.

Hurts you more than he helps.

I'drather have Kevin Martin. At least he can shoot and you can't shoot over him...

Monta's perimeter defense (esp 3p) is pure comedy.

I hope your joking, just because Monta has some off games, that doesn't mean he hurts more than he helps. And I damn sure wouldn't take Kevin over Monta, and if you are being critical of Monta's defense, his defense is more consistent than Kevin's.

MavzMan · 03-12-2015, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I just feel Rondo is living off of reputation. His passes are nifty, and he can play above average defense.

He had THREE HOF to pass to. All in their respective primes. Anyone should be averaging a good number of assists in that position. How do you spend your entire career not improving your jump shot. There isnt a single player in the league that cocks their elbow out, yet you continue to do it and not try and improve?

I would hope that the Mavs coaching staff would work to improve his shot, specifically his 3 point shot. I would also argue that he is not much different than Parson who's shot is extremely flat. I want those guys back with the assumption they are going to improve. If not, then they are not the professionals that I think they are.

Five-ofan · 03-13-2015, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I would hope that the Mavs coaching staff would work to improve his shot, specifically his 3 point shot. I would also argue that he is not much different than Parson who's shot is extremely flat. I want those guys back with the assumption they are going to improve. If not, then they are not the professionals that I think they are.

Rondo is one of the worst shooting smalls in league history, parsons range is a weapon. Yes his form is ugly and he can be inconsistent but he's still a very good shooter. I just don't see how you can compare the two. Parsons has made 12 less 3s this year than rondo has made in his whole 9 year career.

Ryan4131 · 03-13-2015, 11:29 PM

It's amazing how under appreciated Monta is.

Some of these posts are straight up idiotic, wow. Unreal.

Ryan4131 · 03-13-2015, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay3189

I hope your joking, just because Monta has some off games, that doesn't mean he hurts more than he helps. And I damn sure wouldn't take Kevin over Monta, and if you are being critical of Monta's defense, his defense is more consistent than Kevin's.

I highly doubt he actually believes that. Ellis is significantly better than Martin and its not even close.

Whoever believes Ellis hurts this team more than he helps is... well... would rather not say.

MaverickGold · 03-13-2015, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan4131

I highly doubt he actually believes that. Ellis is significantly better than Martin and its not even close.

Whoever believes Ellis hurts this team more than he helps is... well... would rather not say.

Memories are short. Didn't we just come off of a year where Monta seemed like the biggest steal in the league and is the only reason we made the playoffs??? Not to mention just this November when he was receiving national recognition as clutch bro?

blessednegr0 · 03-14-2015, 05:04 PM

I am just curious after the way we played last night... What would you guys think of a sign and trade deal of something like Monta for someone like JJ Reddick or someone of his caliber. I love Monta but is he really that guy to get us over the hump?

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-14-2015, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

I am just curious after the way we played last night... What would you guys think of a sign and trade deal of something like Monta for someone like JJ Reddick or someone of his caliber. I love Monta but is he really that guy to get us over the hump?

Reddick wouldn't put us over the hump either. The player that can put us over the top is already on the team, and his name is CP.

I'm fine with people talking about a better fit next to Rondo, but there really isn't a "put us over the hump" player that I see available this summer at the two guard. I don't think any player will make you a clear favorite in the dreaded West anyway. What the Mavs need more than anything is continuity. If you replace Ellis, then you're throwing another wrench into trying to achieve that.

spreedom · 03-14-2015, 05:48 PM

Ellis is pretty obviously a more impactful player than Redick, but I struggle to come up with a five-man unit on this team that would be worse off with Redick over Monta.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-14-2015, 06:52 PM

I still don't see the FO making a lateral move just to avoid paying Ellis. And they certainly aren't going to do that for a player that isn't a definitive defensive upgrade. If there is a 3 and D guy who averages 15 or more ppg on good percetanges at a reasonable cost, then I get it.

Five-ofan · 03-14-2015, 07:06 PM

The most interesting FA for us imo is Wesley Matthews. He was going to get something very near a max prior to his injury. He wont be 100% at the beginning of next year but could be by about the all star break. What kind of contract he looks for and gets will be really interesting. Hes made about 25 mil in his career so hes got enough to take a one year prove himself contract if he wants but a 4 year 36 mil contract or so could be really difficult to turn down and if he gets healthy that is a huge bargain. Fantasy lineup spit balling, this lineup looks really nice to me

Rondo(if we are keeping him, im not married to this idea)
Matthews
Parsons
Dirk
Chandler

with Monta, Aminu and Wright off the bench. This would take some very low end salaries for Monta, Rondo, Chandler, Aminu and Wright for it to even remotely be a possibility but again this is just a fantasy spit ball and it puts everyone in their ideal role. Id be equally ok with the same lineup with Beverley instead of rondo and making Parsons the primary offensive option with shooting around him.

rimrocker · 03-14-2015, 09:13 PM

What teams would pay Ellis more than what he will be making next season w/o opting out?
Where would he fit that he would be interested in?

Not saying there isn't a suitor but not sure which team it would be. I'm wondering if Mavs have some leverage in that regard.

spreedom · 03-14-2015, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

The most interesting FA for us imo is Wesley Matthews. He was going to get something very near a max prior to his injury. He wont be 100% at the beginning of next year but could be by about the all star break. What kind of contract he looks for and gets will be really interesting. Hes made about 25 mil in his career so hes got enough to take a one year prove himself contract if he wants but a 4 year 36 mil contract or so could be really difficult to turn down and if he gets healthy that is a huge bargain. Fantasy lineup spit balling, this lineup looks really nice to me

Rondo(if we are keeping him, im not married to this idea)
Matthews
Parsons
Dirk
Chandler

with Monta, Aminu and Wright off the bench. This would take some very low end salaries for Monta, Rondo, Chandler, Aminu and Wright for it to even remotely be a possibility but again this is just a fantasy spit ball and it puts everyone in their ideal role. Id be equally ok with the same lineup with Beverley instead of rondo and making Parsons the primary offensive option with shooting around him.

I think that lineup is almost totally impossible to field, even if every one of those free agents took half of their presumed market value... keeping those guys and THEN signing Matthews would be incalculably difficult.

blessednegr0 · 03-14-2015, 10:18 PM

I agree. That lineup would be impossible to field. I am just torn... I absolutely love Ellis, but his slumping is killing us more then Rondo's slumping was. He has been a great team player since coming to the Mavericks, but he has been inconsistent in his scoring and at times that takes us out of the game. His defense has been pretty piss poor as well. I mean Reddick took him to school last night. I am hoping our current lineup plays out, but I am really digging Rondo/Parsons right now. 2 ball handlers/facilitators are more then enough in a starting line up. I mean, let's look at how JJB and Harris are able to get to the rim at will... If Monta was able to do that consistently it would be quite beneficial. I am not saying there is a better SG available, but if Monta is going to break the bank we may want to visit other options. Rondo seems to be improving more and more. I don't know what else Monta can improve as far as his game.

Five-ofan · 03-14-2015, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think that lineup is almost totally impossible to field, even if every one of those free agents took half of their presumed market value... keeping those guys and THEN signing Matthews would be incalculably difficult.

Monta at 9, rondo at 6, chandler at 8-10(this is the hard one) puts us at what 50-55?The cap should be 62 or so if I remember right . Not all that impossible other than signing wright too. It's definitely pie in the sky though

hayth.james.g · 03-14-2015, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Monta at 9, rondo at 6, chandler at 8-10(this is the hard one) puts us at what 50-55?The cap should be 62 or so if I remember right . Not all that impossible other than signing wright too. It's definitely pie in the sky though

Those numbers have me utterly confused lol.

Five-ofan · 03-15-2015, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Those numbers have me utterly confused lol.

I have not done any cap homework those were just random guesses. I don't think monta gets more than 9 mil and I'd have no interest whatsoever in him at more than that. I honestly don't think rondo gets much if any more than the mle.

Underdog · 03-15-2015, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I have not done any cap homework those were just random guesses. I don't think monta gets more than 9 mil and I'd have no interest whatsoever in him at more than that. I honestly don't think rondo gets much if any more than the mle.

Yeah, your numbers are pretty far off the mark.

Monta already has a player option with us for 9 mil next summer, so he isn't opting out unless he's getting raise... And Rondo was talking about getting a max deal not too long ago -- he won't get it, but the MLE is so far from the ballpark that you've gone from playing ball to figure skating.

Five-ofan · 03-15-2015, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, your numbers are pretty far off the mark.

Monta already has a player option with us for 9 mil next summer, so he isn't opting out unless he's getting raise... And Rondo was talking about getting a max deal not too long ago -- he won't get it, but the MLE is so far from the ballpark that you've gone from playing ball to figure skating.

Monta also turned down a 3 year 36 mil contract last time and ended up signing a 3 yr 24 mil contract. He won't opt out if he doesn't think he's getting more but just because he thinks he'll get more doesn't mean he will(and I'm not sure he opts out, and even if he does it'll be shocking if he gets more) but on rondo... What do you honestly think he gets? Who gives him a big deal??? I just don't see it

jthig32 · 03-15-2015, 08:46 AM

Rondo at 6 is the one that is the purest of fantasy. Forget about his actual production, his rep is going to net him significantly more than that. LA's going to offer him a major contract.

The idea of getting Rondo for basically the MLE is incredibly far fetched.

Also, even if Monta opted-in (the only way he's playing for less than 10Mil next year), Rondo signed for 6, Tyson for 10 and Mathews for 9, that's all of your money. Nothing left to sign Aminu and Wright. (And that's assuming they stretch Felton, otherwise even Mathews at 9 doesn't fit).

Melonhead · 03-15-2015, 11:09 AM

IF Rondo continues to improve(develop a half decent jumper in the offseason), I want to keep this team together and give them a chance to develop long term chemistry.

bilease · 03-15-2015, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

IF Rondo continues to improve(develop a half decent jumper in the offseason), I want to keep this team together and give them a chance to develop long term chemistry.

I share that opinion. I dont see any realistic chances to improve this team at the pg/sg position this summer, keeping this roster together and give Carlisle and the coaching staff time to work on the weaknesses, build chemistry and simply get the best out of every player is probably our best chance. Maybe replace some minimum guys here or there, but the core of team should probably be kept together. Outside of the starting 5 I just hope there is a way we keep Aminu, maybe Stoudemire, I like how he plays, he brings energy, toughness and leadership.

sefant77 · 03-15-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Monta also turned down a 3 year 36 mil contract last time and ended up signing a 3 yr 24 mil contract. He won't opt out if he doesn't think he's getting more but just because he thinks he'll get more doesn't mean he will(and I'm not sure he opts out, and even if he does it'll be shocking if he gets more) but on rondo... What do you honestly think he gets? Who gives him a big deal??? I just don't see it

Sorry, you are absolutly wrong everywhere...

in 2016 the cap gonna take a massive rise to 85-90m and teams are going to pre-spend allready in terms of what we think would be overpaying.

Ellis is going home with 15m and Rondo/Tyson/Matthews/Affalo wont get less than 10m. get used to this numbers. Market value + 25% (cap rise 2016). Rondo at 6m is a joke. You will see that Aminu gonna end up near 6m...

MavzMan · 03-16-2015, 09:56 AM

It's also been reported that a lot of FAs will be looking for one year deals in order to become FAs again and cash in with the big increase in cap. Honestly, I would guess that the vast majority of them do this. Why sign a multi-year deal when you can expect 25% increase by waiting a year?

Underdog · 03-16-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

It's also been reported that a lot of FAs will be looking for one year deals in order to become FAs again and cash in with the big increase in cap. Honestly, I would guess that the vast majority of them do this. Why sign a multi-year deal when you can expect 25% increase by waiting a year?

Yeah, I made a whole thread about that: http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39245

But I guess the conversation there is too level-headed for this board these days... It's all cap projections & roster-building possibilities instead of knee-jerk reactions and pie-in-the-sky FA fantasies.

Five-ofan · 03-16-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Sorry, you are absolutly wrong everywhere...

in 2016 the cap gonna take a massive rise to 85-90m and teams are going to pre-spend allready in terms of what we think would be overpaying.

Ellis is going home with 15m and Rondo/Tyson/Matthews/Affalo wont get less than 10m. get used to this numbers. Market value + 25% (cap rise 2016). Rondo at 6m is a joke. You will see that Aminu gonna end up near 6m...

If ellis gets 15m whoever gives it to him should be fired on the spot. And aminu won't get 6 mil. I'd bet you any amount of money you'd like to bet. I'm sure rondo will get overpaid because nba gms are idiots.

Underdog · 03-16-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

If ellis gets 15m whoever gives it to him should be fired on the spot. And aminu won't get 6 mil. I'd bet you any amount of money you'd like to bet. I'm sure rondo will get overpaid because nba gms are idiots.

Dude, the cap is going from $63m to $88-92m in 2016... $15m is going to be middle-class when a guy like LeBron is probably looking at a $30m/year contract after the spike.

Underdog · 03-23-2015, 09:25 AM

Well, this thread might be a conversation worth reexamining...

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2015, 09:38 AM

Ellis should have taken games off after his hip injury. The team seems to have been drowned in nagging injuries this season.