2017 NBA Draft

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Someone mentioned Zach Collins over on the other board. Watched some highlights pretty damn impressive. Good athlete, ups, good timing defensively, moves feet prett well, low post moves, college 3pt range, plays with passion and edge, nice release, in great shape with room to get stronger. He's a riser and we'd have to consider him even at 7 I'd say

I like Collins, but wouldn't that be pulling a Sixers? We just traded for Noel and now we're drafting another C, all while being forced to play Dirk there, too?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I like Collins, but wouldn't that be pulling a Sixers? We just traded for Noel and now we're drafting another C, all while being forced to play Dirk there, too?

He already has range to play 4 on O and you could mix/match depend on matchups.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

He already has range to play 4 on O and you could mix/match depend on matchups.

I could see a rotation of Barnes/Collins/Noel at the 4/5.
What concerns me is Donnie is probably thinking the same with Markkanen.
Collins looks much more active than Markkanen from what I've seen and I think Barnes/Markkanen at 4/5 would be a train wreck.
Barnes/Collins is something that might work.

I don't see it as wasting the trade for Noel at all. I wouldn't take Collins at 7 but if we could trade down from 10 and pickup another pick I'd consider it. For instance if Portland would trade their top 1st round pick and either of the other two for our first, that might be something to consider if we are looking for another big and Fox, Ntilikina, Monk and Issac are off the board.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I could see a rotation of Barnes/Collins/Noel at the 4/5.
What concerns me is Donnie is probably thinking the same with Markkanen.
Collins looks much more active than Markkanen from what I've seen and I think Barnes/Markkanen at 4/5 would be a train wreck.
Barnes/Collins is something that might work.

I don't see it as wasting the trade for Noel at all. I wouldn't take Collins at 7 but if we could trade down from 10 and pickup another pick I'd consider it. For instance if Portland would trade their top 1st round pick and either of the other two for our first, that might be something to consider if we are looking for another big and Fox, Ntilikina, Monk and Issac are off the board.

Absolutely agree on trading down if Markkanen is the "best" player available where we pick... Although that's another reason why we should be aiming for #8 instead of winning games and settling for #10.

[EricaLubarsky]

If we screw up this draft, next year is going to be a LONG year.

[EricaLubarsky]

At 10, we're going to either have to take second-tier players or we're going to have to take a leap on someone.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mark Cuban: "We've to get better at point (guard). There's no question. If we can't do it in the draft, we'll look at free agency."

@EKS

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

@EKS

Frank over Lauri for sure.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Frank over Lauri for sure.

Relieving to hear from Cuban.

[m4ver1ck_aac]

Man it sure would be amazing for the 1.7 or Whatever percent chance miracle occurs where we get a top 3 pick via lottery. I don't think it's ever happened so moving on... I'm with Underdog and probly most others in that I will probably cry and break a few things if we end up drafting Markannen. I absolutely want a PG. Smith, Frank or fox.. wish to the high heavens we could somehow get Fultz... Mostly though I just dont want to get Markannen and would absolutely love for the Lakers to lose their pick in the lottery (is that how it works? If they end up getting like 4th pick in lottery do they lose their pick?)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by m4ver1ck_aac

Man it sure would be amazing for the 1.7 or Whatever percent chance miracle occurs where we get a top 3 pick via lottery. I don't think it's ever happened so moving on... I'm with Underdog and probly most others in that I will probably cry and break a few things if we end up drafting Markannen. I absolutely want a PG. Smith, Frank or fox.. wish to the high heavens we could somehow get Fultz... Mostly though I just dont want to get Markannen and would absolutely love for the Lakers to lose their pick in the lottery (is that how it works? If they end up getting like 4th pick in lottery do they lose their pick?)

They don't lose their pick, they just get bumped down.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They don't lose their pick, they just get bumped down.

I'm not certain but I think the Lakers' pick is only top 3 protected. I think that is what m4ver1ck_aac was referring to.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...tant-than-wins

[Underdog]

What's more palatable -- tanking the rest of the season so we can get the highest pick possible, or maxing out Holiday/Hill/Teague at the risk of losing Noel?

[MavzMan]

You don't lose Noel at this point. He's not even averaging half a game yet since the trade. We need him to go into the off season and get a full training camp so that he reaches his potential. I'm truly excited to see Noel and HB learn to play together.

Those other guys honestly don't do a whole lot for me and would be seriously overpaid for what they bring.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

You don't lose Noel at this point. He's not even averaging half a game yet since the trade. We need him to go into the off season and get a full training camp so that he reaches his potential. I'm truly excited to see Noel and HB learn to play together.

Those other guys honestly don't do a whole lot for me and would be seriously overpaid for what they bring.

In your view he is not getting enough minutes because he has not reached his potential yet?

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Thebo

In your view he is not getting enough minutes because he has not reached his potential yet?

I've always been of the impression that the staff has been easing him in, keeping it simple, while also minding the fact that he has had injuries and need to be cautious this season as he will be a large part of next year's team (hopefully).

And an argument could be made that he hasn't hit his potential yet. I honestly think this system is a great fit and he has a lot of room to be a major player.

[Thebo]

I can see that point. Prior to his injury he was able to get some 30 minute games in. In terms of ceiling, he is pretty close, only needs more time in the system. He is able to do in 20 minutes what others barely manage in 30 minutes, therefore he is very close to his potential.

One can actually make a case for this as a sign that Mavs may go after Markkanen in the draft, as they are keeping Noel around 20 minutes a game and in that case both Lauri and Dirk would be close to 20 also. Rumors about Mavs chasing free agent PG are rather disheartening in that regard...

[tap2390]

My Mavs draft board:

1) Markelle Fultz (James Harden) - as crafty a freshmen to come out of college in years; has savvy, body control beyond his years

2) DeAaron Fox (John Wall) - not a natural shooter but has all the tools including elite defensive traits; understands pace and can collapse a defense and dish or finish

3) Jayson Tatum (Harrison Barnes) - smart, versatile all-around 3

4) Malik Monk (Monta Ellis) - wiry scoring machine; higher upside than Monta due to defensive potential

5) Dennis Smith Jr. (Eric Bledsoe) - has extremely high upside as he recovers from ACL tear, but injury concerns have pushed him down

6) Josh Jackson (Andrew Wiggins) - an elite complementary piece who affects he game in a variety of way but isn't an elite scorer; character concerns push him down

7) Johnathan Isaac (Giannis Antekeounpo) - skilled, lengthy, and versatile... upside is through the roof although lacks the same wiry strength Giannis has

8) Lonzo Ball (Shaun Livingston) - high upside if he can fix his jumper but his game doesn't translate as neatly as others; crazy father and concerns about willingness to stick with team other than LA push him down

9) Miles Bridges (Kent Bazemore) - strong, athletic, versatile... a better version of Justin Anderson

10) Frank Ntilikina (Roddy B) - upside is through the roof but will he translate? Faces the same challenges successful players Giannis and Schroeder did... could go either way

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by tap2390

My Mavs draft board:

1) Markelle Fultz (James Harden) - as crafty a freshmen to come out of college in years; has savvy, body control beyond his years

2) DeAaron Fox (John Wall) - not a natural shooter but has all the tools including elite defensive traits; understands pace and can collapse a defense and dish or finish

3) Jayson Tatum (Harrison Barnes) - smart, versatile all-around 3

4) Malik Monk (Monta Ellis) - wiry scoring machine; higher upside than Monta due to defensive potential

5) Dennis Smith Jr. (Eric Bledsoe) - has extremely high upside as he recovers from ACL tear, but injury concerns have pushed him down

6) Josh Jackson (Andrew Wiggins) - an elite complementary piece who affects he game in a variety of way but isn't an elite scorer; character concerns push him down

7) Johnathan Isaac (Giannis Antekeounpo) - skilled, lengthy, and versatile... upside is through the roof although lacks the same wiry strength Giannis has

8) Lonzo Ball (Shaun Livingston) - high upside if he can fix his jumper but his game doesn't translate as neatly as others; crazy father and concerns about willingness to stick with team other than LA push him down

9) Miles Bridges (Kent Bazemore) - strong, athletic, versatile... a better version of Justin Anderson

10) Frank Ntilikina (Roddy B) - upside is through the roof but will he translate? Faces the same challenges successful players Giannis and Schroeder did... could go either way

Pretty good but I'd move Jackson to 2, Ball to 3 and push everyone else down but switching 9 and 10. Then I'd trade the 10th pick to either move down to pickup more picks or trade it for a starter quality PG. I like Bridges but think we could get him a little later in the draft. I'm not super high on Fox but think he would be a nice fit with Curry in the backcourt.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Thebo

I can see that point. Prior to his injury he was able to get some 30 minute games in. In terms of ceiling, he is pretty close, only needs more time in the system. He is able to do in 20 minutes what others barely manage in 30 minutes, therefore he is very close to his potential.

One can actually make a case for this as a sign that Mavs may go after Markkanen in the draft, as they are keeping Noel around 20 minutes a game and in that case both Lauri and Dirk would be close to 20 also. Rumors about Mavs chasing free agent PG are rather disheartening in that regard...

Agree. While I like some of the to-be free agent PGs, they will be overpaid.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by saclare

Agree. While I like some of the to-be free agent PGs, they will be overpaid.

Curry/Paul/Lowry/Holiday/Hill/Teague/Rose/Mills are about the cream of the crop.
My biggest concern with FA PGs is the age of the decent ones. Teague might be the only realistic one we might be able to pry away from existing team but even that doesn't seem likely. Holiday would be nice with Curry but seems to always be injured. Hill would be okay but is 30 something which doesn't fit our situation and I'm assuming will resign with Jazz.

I honestly see the best way to upgrade PG on this team is via trade.
I still wonder if Phoenix would consider trading Bledsoe for our pick and Powell if we are picking 9 or 10 and they take Ball or another PG with their 1st pick.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I honestly see the best way to upgrade PG on this team is via trade.

I think it would be a helluva lot easier to upgrade PG if we just lost the rest of our games and moved into a top-8 pick.

[MavzMan]

I would *hope* he's not getting Wes-like minutes because he's still young, traded 2/3 into the season, doesn't know how to play on a competitive team, and most importantly hasn't had the time to learn RC's system.

The radio was just talking the other day about the fact that the NBA doesn't have practices during the season. They tell the players that if you give everything you have during the game, they can take the practice off. However that results in a worse product overall because teams don't have the chance to work out issues in the plays or just fine tune them. It was a comparison with the NFL that practices all week and plays one game at the end of the week.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I would *hope* he's not getting Wes-like minutes because he's still young, traded 2/3 into the season, doesn't know how to play on a competitive team, and most importantly hasn't had the time to learn RC's system.

The radio was just talking the other day about the fact that the NBA doesn't have practices during the season. They tell the players that if you give everything you have during the game, they can take the practice off. However that results in a worse product overall because teams don't have the chance to work out issues in the plays or just fine tune them. It was a comparison with the NFL that practices all week and plays one game at the end of the week.

That doesn't sound accurate and each team is going to be different in how they run their organization. I imagine when teams are playing 4 games in 5 nights they might not have practices, but teams certainly practice during the season. Otherwise it would be next to impossible to learn new set/plays.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Would someone send nbadraft.net a memo that 1998 wants their website back? Seriously, oldest and crashiest website still on the web.

And their new ranking has us taking Dennis Smith. Ugh, if only...

[EricaLubarsky]

10th overall - 1.0 games - Pelicans
-----------------------
9th overall - Mavs
-----------------------
8th overall - 0.5 games - Wolves
7th overall - 1.0 games - Kings
6th overall - 2.0 games - Knicks

Only one game behind the Pelicans for 10th. Inching closer to 7th/8th.

At this point we can go as high as 7th and as low as 10th. 11th (catching the Nuggets) and 6th (catching the 76ers-- even if 76ers won every game and Mavs lost every game, 76ers have the tiebreaker) are no longer possible.

Four games left for us. EVERY. GAME. COUNTS.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Interesting that draftexpress has us taking Isaac. Don't think he'll fall to us, but if he did and Frank was available...who do you take?

I don't think you can pass up on Isaac. I actually think he could be the Giannis of this draft as he has the size, length, and athleticism to back it up.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Interesting that draftexpress has us taking Isaac. Don't think he'll fall to us, but if he did and Frank was available...who do you take?

I don't think you can pass up on Isaac. I actually think he could be the Giannis of this draft as he has the size, length, and athleticism to back it up.

I take Frank. Yes we have limited tape, but I feel more comfortable with his game translating. When I watch these guys tape, I like to really evaluate what those same moves/highlights would look like at the next level. Both players have a very high ceiling. I just think Isaacs body would have to develop while Franks only question is how much time will he need to adjust to the curve and experience. Plus he plays PG.

TLDR: Frank brings more certainty while offering the same extremely high ceiling while fitting s position of need.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Interesting that draftexpress has us taking Isaac. Don't think he'll fall to us, but if he did and Frank was available...who do you take?

I don't think you can pass up on Isaac. I actually think he could be the Giannis of this draft as he has the size, length, and athleticism to back it up.

I so badly want a pg. But if Isaac is there I'd take him over Frank personally. I would absolutely love to have this problem though on draft night.

[EricaLubarsky]

Isaac may be the best player available where we draft, but I'm not super hot on him on this team. He's too much like Barnes. Similar builds, skills and games. Lots of teams go for BPA, but with a guy who is basically Barnes, the two are going to have to fight for PT and that may stunt Isaac's growth.

Unless we draft Isaac and trade him for a John Wall-type, then we're coming in next year with basically the same team as this year, but with a Barnes backup. No good PGs in the FA class worth the money they'll get and it's obviously our biggest weakness for the future. Barea and Harris aren't in our plans 3-4 years from now and Yogi is extremely limited.

[Melonhead]

At best, I see Mavs finishing 2-2.

But I see Pelicans finishing 1-3 and possibly winless. If either scenario happens for Pels, the mavs would have to match that to keep #9 pick?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

No good PGs in the FA class worth the money they'll get and it's obviously our biggest weakness for the future. Barea and Harris aren't in our plans 3-4 years from now and Yogi is extremely limited.

I'm not sure I agree Yogi is limited. I think a good off-season would do wonders for his development. He is limited in size but honestly I can't think of a quicker player in the NBA and his footwork on D is probably the best I've seen since Bowen and Payton. He certainly has his flaws on O and needs to become more of a true PG/Playmaker but again I think those things can come in the off-season.

Now if Smith or Fox are available you definitely take one of them but if they are off the board and it is between Isaac and Ntilikina I think I'd have to go with Isaac because I could see his career somewhere between Rashard Lewis and Durant and I think Yogi still has a much higher ceiling.

[Underdog]

I'm highest on Smith, intrigued by Ntilikina, and want nothing to do with Markkanen... But now I'm seeing Isaac or Monk gong to Dallas in these mocks? It's going to be an interesting draft.

[hayth.james.g]

I absolutely love Monk. I just don't see him working with Curry.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I absolutely love Monk. I just don't see him working with Curry.

Which is why you draft the best player available. If you need to trade Curry then so be it.

Same thing with Barnes and Isaac. Either will be easily tradable if they don't work together.

Pick the best player, and do asset management from there.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which is why you draft the best player available. If you need to trade Curry then so be it.

Same thing with Barnes and Isaac. Either will be easily tradable if they don't work together.

Pick the best player, and do asset management from there.

That's not really how it works or Philly would be better off.

Finite playtime and finite player development hours. It's why many teams draft a player, the player flounders, then immediately becomes a star when given a starting role with another team. Usually it happens after losing trade assets (like, say, using a lottery pick on a guy and then trading him for two second rounders). It's rare to find a rookie who can hit the ground running like LeBron. That seems particularly true with Isaac who essentially is Barnes.

If you want a young guy, you'd better have the faith and devotion enough to develop and play him. I like Monk and Isaac a lot but you have to go whole hog on them, which may mean trading guys before you even have a chance to see the potential of the rook.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That's not really how it works or Philly would be better off.

Finite playtime and finite player development hours. It's why many teams draft a player, the player flounders, then immediately becomes a star when given a starting role with another team. Usually it happens after losing trade assets (like, say, using a lottery pick on a guy and then trading him for two second rounders). It's rare to find a rookie who can hit the ground running like LeBron. That seems particularly true with Isaac who essentially is Barnes.

If you want a young guy, you'd better have the faith and devotion enough to develop and play him. I like Monk and Isaac a lot but you have to go whole hog on them, which may mean trading guys before you even have a chance to see the potential of the rook.

What they do draft-wise boggles many minds, but I see little relevance here. Drafting a similar-ish player at a similar position doesn't automatically make you the Sixers. And they also don't have any clue about asset management

Barnes played more 4 this year than 3, so I don't think it would be as big of an issue as you are making it to be. You could feasibly start Curry, Wes, Isaac, Barnes, and Dirk. Or Curry, Wes, Isaac, Barnes, Noel. Or a plethora of other lineups depending on who the Mavs get at pg.

Isaac provides one rather big thing the Mavs desperately need which is rebounding. He isn't otherworldly there, but if he could get you 7 boards a game at sf...

I'm all for getting a pg, but I think teams know you have to have a very good one of those in today's game. Just don't be shocked if the good ones are off the board by the time the Mavs pick.

[tap2390]

Ball keeps talking about how he prefers the Lakers; and his dad recently stated UCLA started too many white guys to win the tournament... really starting to hate the kid.

I hope he gets destroyed next year in the league, not going to lie.

[mac222b]

Hope that "win" against the Bucks doesn't come back to haunt us.

[sefant77]

At the end we end up being at #9 just to see a team behind us jumping up and we draft at #10 in the famous "nine deep" draft...uargh

Spurs
Suns
Nuggets
Grizzlies

Outtanking the Suns in this game will be almost impossible. Nuggets are maybe eliminated and Grizzlies may rest everybody...