$hillary vs. Drumpf

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hillary and Trump were nearly tied a week or two ago. So yes, even the Ted Cruz's and Marco Rubios of the world would do better because they don't talk about possibly killing the other candidate.

I don't give a crap about servers or benghazi. I have tons of other reasons why I personally don't like her. I didn't like her when she ran against Obama and nothing much has changed since then for me.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Hillary and Trump were nearly tied a week or two ago. So yes, even the Ted Cruz's and Marco Rubios of the world would do better because they don't talk about possibly killing the other candidate.

But neither Cruz nor Rubio could get to the point of facing her. Why? Is it just a matter of matchups? Cruz could be Hillary, if only he could beat Trump? But he can't come close to beating Trump? Live by the lie, die by the lie?

And why aren't they running independent campaigns now? Where is Paul Ryan? I don't have an answer. I'm curious what you (or almost anyone else) think(s).

I agree that she has a very difficult public personality to swallow. But her experience relative to any other candidate's in this year's field is unparalleled (not even close), all the more so versus Trump.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

And why aren't they running independent campaigns now?

Because that would further fracture the G.O.P.... At this point I think they're packing it in, focusing on the midterms so they can continue to c*ckblock the White House for another 4 years... They've already got their work cut out for them, no point in wasting energy trying to take down Trump -- just let him die on the vine.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because that would further fracture the G.O.P.... At this point I think they're packing it in, focusing on the midterms so they can continue to c*ckblock the White House for another 4 years... They've already got their work cut out for them, no point in wasting energy trying to take down Trump -- just let him die on the vine.

So, would you estimate that they started packing it in a year ago? There was not a decent Republican candidate in the field. Not one. That list of names is a steaming pile of elephant dung.

Is there someone sitting out this year's campaign who would have been a decent candidate? If so, who? Is that person this year's Jeb Bush, sitting out on his/her opportunity (as Jeb did in 2008 and 2012)? And when 2020 comes will it be too late for them?

I agree that the GOP is more fractured than ever (worse than 1992 or 2008, perhaps as bad as the Democratic party after Carter/1980). I remember predicting this 10-12 years ago. It took longer than I thought it would, and I thought that the Establishment would distance itself from the Fringe Right, when in fact the Fringe Right has broken off on its own. But the net effect is the same. And while I also know better than to think that the GOP will remain in this weakened state forever, is the only option available for it to be the Obstructionist Party?

I actually voted Republican for the first 20 years of my voting life, but given what remains of that party, I can't ever see myself backing a Republican platform or, for now, a Republican candidate for the rest of my life.

I'd like to see at least 2-3 other parties form, at different points on the political spectrum, forcing coalitions to form in order to advance reforms and initiatives. Two parties make it too easy for an obstructionist party to stymie progress.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I'd like to see at least 2-3 other parties form, at different points on the political spectrum, forcing coalitions to form in order to advance reforms and initiatives. Two parties make it too easy for an obstructionist party to stymie progress.

I'm not going to argue the rest of your points because I don't necessarily disagree with them -- just pointing out why the the Republicans aren't running independent at this point...

As for 2-3 more parties? I'd rather see political parties done away with and have individual candidates with original ideas instead of the popularity contest that partisan politics inevitably devolves into... Right now the party shapes the voter instead of the voter shaping the party -- that's not how democracy is supposed to work... I'm not sure if a slightly-wider variety of group-think is going to fix that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

But neither Cruz nor Rubio could get to the point of facing her. Why? Is it just a matter of matchups? Cruz could be Hillary, if only he could beat Trump? But he can't come close to beating Trump? Live by the lie, die by the lie?

And why aren't they running independent campaigns now? Where is Paul Ryan? I don't have an answer. I'm curious what you (or almost anyone else) think(s).

I agree that she has a very difficult public personality to swallow. But her experience relative to any other candidate's in this year's field is unparalleled (not even close), all the more so versus Trump.

Trump just manipulated the uneducated white male who believes anything related to government should sink to the bottom of the ocean. Yelling big shiny things and building huge walls resonates with a lot of really ignorant people who feel disenfranchised. Don't ask me why they relate to a billionaire who sits in gold chairs. I think they are duped into thinking they'll be just like him success-wise. It's all so surreal that I'm not sure sane people can wrap their heads around it.

Politics in his country are just a reality show now. Asking why Trump beat those other people out is akin to asking why the Khardsahian show is so popular.