Official Lebron, Wade, Bosh FA watch thread.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

This is true, but frankly if it's between Chicago and Dallas, I like our chances. On top of having a better supporting cast to carry Lebron to a title, and not having to play in MJ's shadow, Dallas is also a better S&T option from Cleveland's end.

Frankly I think Lebron is much more likely to stay in Cleveland than he is to land in Chicago.

I don't know, I kind of like the supporting cast Chicago has built (especially with nice young players like Rose and Noah). I think that's gotta be pretty appealing, especially compared with the aging, overpaid players he has to work with in Cleveland. If I'm betting between those two cities, I'm going with Chicago at this point.

Granted, I don't know where loyalty plays into all of this. Is LeBron way more loyal than I give him credit for? I guess that's what makes this summer interesting. But if he isn't, I can't see why he wouldn't bolt for a place like Chicago. I do think Dallas can offer some of the same things that would be appealing for LeBron, but with the caveat being that our supporting cast is a lot older.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I don't know, I kind of like the supporting cast Chicago has built (especially with nice young players like Rose and Noah). I think that's gotta be pretty appealing, especially compared with the aging, overpaid players he has to work with in Cleveland. If I'm betting between those two cities, I'm going with Chicago at this point.

Granted, I don't know where loyalty plays into all of this. Is LeBron way more loyal than I give him credit for? I guess that's what makes this summer interesting. But if he isn't, I can't see why he wouldn't bolt for a place like Chicago. I do think Dallas can offer some of the same things that would be appealing for LeBron, but with the caveat being that our supporting cast is a lot older.

I could be wrong, but indeed I do think you are underestimating Lebron's loyalty a great deal. I don't have anything solid to back it up, but that's just the impression that I get from him. I think it would really pain him to leave Cleveland. Not only that, but I have to believe the spectra of Michael Jordan is going to be a factor into his decision as well.

I guess I just think it's going to take A LOT for him to leave Cleveland because of the way they've dominated the regular season the past couple of years. Lebron knows that even with the mediocre supporting cast he has there, they're only one small piece away from a title. Leaving Cleveland is NOT something he's going to do lightly. For him to bolt to another team, it has to be an almost guaranteed title, and I don't think Chicago qualifies (could be wrong.)

If I'm the Cavs' management, I'm doing everything I can to sweet-talk Lebron into taking his time making a decision, while trying to trade for a major supporting player in the meantime. The Cavs are certainly not helpless here. One good trade, and I'm almost positive Lebron will stay. And Lebron is undoubtedly going to consider all of his options thoroughly and talk to all potential suitors, so the Cavs have plenty of time to get a deal done as well.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I could be wrong, but indeed I do think you are underestimating Lebron's loyalty a great deal. I don't have anything solid to back it up, but that's just the impression that I get from him. I think it would really pain him to leave Cleveland. Not only that, but I have to believe the spectra of Michael Jordan is going to be a factor into his decision as well.

I guess I just think it's going to take A LOT for him to leave Cleveland because of the way they've dominated the regular season the past couple of years. Lebron knows that even with the mediocre supporting cast he has there, they're only one small piece away from a title. Leaving Cleveland is NOT something he's going to do lightly. For him to bolt to another team, it has to be an almost guaranteed title, and I don't think Chicago qualifies (could be wrong.)

If I'm the Cavs' management, I'm doing everything I can to sweet-talk Lebron into taking his time making a decision, while trying to trade for a major supporting player in the meantime. The Cavs are certainly not helpless here. One good trade, and I'm almost positive Lebron will stay. And Lebron is undoubtedly going to consider all of his options thoroughly and talk to all potential suitors, so the Cavs have plenty of time to get a deal done as well.

I have a hard time believing they're going to be able to work a trade for a supporting player. Plus I don't think they're just a small piece away from the title. They have coaching issues and very little creativity on the offensive end of the court. They mismanaged their use of Jamison and that's gotta fall on the staff. Williams is going to be incredibly inconsistent as a player and you can't have that from a starter with a thin supporting cast and championship aspirations. A tough defensive team (Boston) pretty much locked everyone else down and LeBron wasn't going to be able to do it himself. He didn't have a consistent second option by his side...they're not that close because they can't beat the fellow elite teams in a series.

I just don't see how they're THAT close, they luck into being close just because they're in the East. It's tougher opposition but Dallas has to be relatively close to Cleveland in terms of guaranteed title chances.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I have a hard time believing they're going to be able to work a trade for a supporting player. Plus I don't think they're just a small piece away from the title. They have coaching issues and very little creativity on the offensive end of the court. They mismanaged their use of Jamison and that's gotta fall on the staff. Williams is going to be incredibly inconsistent as a player and you can't have that from a starter with a thin supporting cast and championship aspirations. A tough defensive team (Boston) pretty much locked everyone else down and LeBron wasn't going to be able to do it himself. He didn't have a consistent second option by his side...they're not that close because they can't beat the fellow elite teams in a series.

I just don't see how they're THAT close, they luck into being close just because they're in the East. It's tougher opposition but Dallas has to be relatively close to Cleveland in terms of guaranteed title chances.

this.

Cavs were build for a win now and they failed.

They have no coach

They have no center right more and even if Shaq comes back, he isnt enough anymore.

Jamison and Parker are old

Mo Williams is inconsistent, their Jason Terry and for sure no #2 option.

Gibson and Hickson are average talents.

Yes James told few months ago he isnt done in Cleveland until he bring the ring, but it looks even worse there next year. He will remember Garnetts words...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sefant77

this.

Cavs were build for a win now and they failed.

They have no coach

They have no center right more and even if Shaq comes back, he isnt enough anymore.

Jamison and Parker are old

Mo Williams is inconsistent, their Jason Terry and for sure no #2 option.

Gibson and Hickson are average talents.

Yes James told few months ago he isnt done in Cleveland until he bring the ring, but it looks even worse there next year. He will remember Garnetts words...

Yeah, I forgot to mention they were pretty much built for this season and last season. They ran into the Magic last year and then they rebuilt to try to take down the Magic this year and even pushed harder with going for Jamison and they still got throttled by a better team.

I do think Jamison is still talented and has plenty of gas left in the tank, he just wasn't used properly at all. Parker is pretty much a one dimensional scoring threat with defensive abilities.

Hickson DOES have some potential to amount to a relatively above average player but he's still got a while and they're not in the mode to start grooming players.

They definitely were built to win and win now and you got bounced in the second round. If you put all your eggs in the basket and came up short and it doesn't necessarily appear they'll get dramatically better...you're out of there. The difference with Dallas is they're in the position that Cleveland is in but they have the advantage of being able to pluck a star out of the crop. I just don't think Cleveland is going to be able to do that.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Yeah, I forgot to mention they were pretty much built for this season and last season. They ran into the Magic last year and then they rebuilt to try to take down the Magic this year and even pushed harder with going for Jamison and they still got throttled by a better team.

I do think Jamison is still talented and has plenty of gas left in the tank, he just wasn't used properly at all. Parker is pretty much a one dimensional scoring threat with defensive abilities.

Hickson DOES have some potential to amount to a relatively above average player but he's still got a while and they're not in the mode to start grooming players.

They definitely were built to win and win now and you got bounced in the second round. If you put all your eggs in the basket and came up short and it doesn't necessarily appear they'll get dramatically better...you're out of there. The difference with Dallas is they're in the position that Cleveland is in but they have the advantage of being able to pluck a star out of the crop. I just don't think Cleveland is going to be able to do that.

These are pretty much my thoughts on Cleveland. They put all their eggs in one basket going for the ring, but unfortunately the basket spilled on the way home.

The only reason LeBron comes back to that is out of sheer loyalty. I don't think he can look at that situation and see a dynasty in the making. While I don't have any reason to doubt that LeBron is a loyal guy, I don't think he's that loyal to his hometown, especially when he needs rings in order to become a true legend of the game that he is capable of being.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I have a hard time believing they're going to be able to work a trade for a supporting player. Plus I don't think they're just a small piece away from the title. They have coaching issues and very little creativity on the offensive end of the court. They mismanaged their use of Jamison and that's gotta fall on the staff. Williams is going to be incredibly inconsistent as a player and you can't have that from a starter with a thin supporting cast and championship aspirations. A tough defensive team (Boston) pretty much locked everyone else down and LeBron wasn't going to be able to do it himself. He didn't have a consistent second option by his side...they're not that close because they can't beat the fellow elite teams in a series.

I just don't see how they're THAT close, they luck into being close just because they're in the East. It's tougher opposition but Dallas has to be relatively close to Cleveland in terms of guaranteed title chances.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying, but I'm just not sure Lebron sees it that way. You can argue whether or not they're one piece away from a title, but their dominance of the regular season would certainly suggest that they are (at least in Lebron's mind.) I'm not necessarily saying that Cleveland is his best shot at a title, but I could see the Cavs wooing him into staying much more easily than I could see another team convincing him otherwise.

As far as players being used incorrectly, that's an easy fix. Brown is obviously gone and then it's just a matter of finding a coach that Lebron likes(doesn't really matter if he's the best coach or not, just as long as Lebron thinks he is.)

Even if they can't trade for an ideal supporting star, I really think just a decent trade would be enough to convince him to stay.

You also have to take the big picture of the conference into consideration. You mentioned that they can't beat a fellow elite team. The thing is, who are the other elite teams in the East? Boston and Orlando, and that's it. How much longer is Boston going to be in the title picture? They're pretty damn old. Orlando is a very good team, but they hardly seem like an impassable roadblock to the title (the way, say, the Lakers are in the West.)

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what any of us think about Cleveland's championship aspirations. The only thing that matters is what Lebron thinks. There's no obvious, clear-cut path to the championship, so Lebron is taking a pretty big risk anywhere he goes.

I hope you're right though. I hope his view of the Cavs' situation is as pessimistic as yours. Because if it is, then it pretty much comes down to Chicago and Dallas, and as I've said all throughout, I like Dallas' chances.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying, but I'm just not sure Lebron sees it that way. You can argue whether or not they're one piece away from a title, but their dominance of the regular season would certainly suggest that they are (at least in Lebron's mind.) I'm not necessarily saying that Cleveland is his best shot at a title, but I could see the Cavs wooing him into staying much more easily than I could see another team convincing him otherwise.

As far as players being used incorrectly, that's an easy fix. Brown is obviously gone and then it's just a matter of finding a coach that Lebron likes(doesn't really matter if he's the best coach or not, just as long as Lebron thinks he is.)

Even if they can't trade for an ideal supporting star, I really think just a decent trade would be enough to convince him to stay.

You also have to take the big picture of the conference into consideration. You mentioned that they can't beat a fellow elite team. The thing is, who are the other elite teams in the East? Boston and Orlando, and that's it. How much longer is Boston going to be in the title picture? They're pretty damn old. Orlando is a very good team, but they hardly seem like an impassable roadblock to the title (the way, say, the Lakers are in the West.)

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what any of us think about Cleveland's championship aspirations. The only thing that matters is what Lebron thinks. There's no obvious, clear-cut path to the championship, so Lebron is taking a pretty big risk anywhere he goes.

I hope you're right though. I hope his view of the Cavs' situation is as pessimistic as yours. Because if it is, then it pretty much comes down to Chicago and Dallas, and as I've said all throughout, I like Dallas' chances.

Dominance in the regular season is a totally different beast once you get into the playoffs, we all know that. You face teams that don't get to scout you as intensely as they'd like, there are injuries, B2Bs/4 games in 5 nights, yadda yadda yadda. Cleveland is clearly an above average team, at the very worst. They just had the mindset that they had to dominate the regular season and it'd be the same game in the playoffs when that clearly wasn't the situation.

Brown IS a problem, but he's not necessarily the biggest problem. You can easily make an argument that he is the problem or that the personnel is the fatal flaw. I still believe Jamison can get you 18 a night if he gets to work in the low post with his game...but once you get past him it gets very questionable what you're going to get on any given night. Based on that, I don't think they're just a supporting player away, he'll need a borderline all-star to go with James and I'm not sure how you're necessarily going to get that added on in Cleveland.

As for the elite teams in the East, yeah Boston is getting older but they've probably got Pierce and KG for at least another year or two and Rondo is going to keep emerging as the star, Perkins is a quality center as well, Tony Allen etc. etc. I still think they've got some time left and Orlando clearly was in the way of Cleveland last year and their piece that they got in attempt to stop Howard is definitely going to be out of the picture. With that, you could possibly say they're in the same spot as they were in last year: either the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East and that's more than likely going to get you beat in the semis or conference finals. Atlanta isn't an elite team and they're likely to slip but depending on what Miami does you could watch out for them to move up another level. I also think if Milwaukee can find a way to maintain health, they could push up a level and be near the bottom end of the elite in the East and give Cleveland a run for their money. It's slowly starting to get tougher in the East, that's my point.

I wouldn't necessarily say my assessment of Cleveland is pessimistic, it's pretty damn realistic lol. I know our situation is relatively shaky as well but ours has much more wiggle room for improvement in spite of the fact we are in the tougher conference.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Dominance in the regular season is a totally different beast once you get into the playoffs, we all know that. You face teams that don't get to scout you as intensely as they'd like, there are injuries, B2Bs/4 games in 5 nights, yadda yadda yadda. Cleveland is clearly an above average team, at the very worst. They just had the mindset that they had to dominate the regular season and it'd be the same game in the playoffs when that clearly wasn't the situation.

Brown IS a problem, but he's not necessarily the biggest problem. You can easily make an argument that he is the problem or that the personnel is the fatal flaw. I still believe Jamison can get you 18 a night if he gets to work in the low post with his game...but once you get past him it gets very questionable what you're going to get on any given night. Based on that, I don't think they're just a supporting player away, he'll need a borderline all-star to go with James and I'm not sure how you're necessarily going to get that added on in Cleveland.

As for the elite teams in the East, yeah Boston is getting older but they've probably got Pierce and KG for at least another year or two and Rondo is going to keep emerging as the star, Perkins is a quality center as well, Tony Allen etc. etc. I still think they've got some time left and Orlando clearly was in the way of Cleveland last year and their piece that they got in attempt to stop Howard is definitely going to be out of the picture. With that, you could possibly say they're in the same spot as they were in last year: either the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East and that's more than likely going to get you beat in the semis or conference finals. Atlanta isn't an elite team and they're likely to slip but depending on what Miami does you could watch out for them to move up another level. I also think if Milwaukee can find a way to maintain health, they could push up a level and be near the bottom end of the elite in the East and give Cleveland a run for their money. It's slowly starting to get tougher in the East, that's my point.

I wouldn't necessarily say my assessment of Cleveland is pessimistic, it's pretty damn realistic lol. I know our situation is relatively shaky as well but ours has much more wiggle room for improvement in spite of the fact we are in the tougher conference.

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I think. I was never at any point arguing that Cleveland doesn't have any of these problems. My only point is that I think Lebron is more likely to stay in Cleveland than he is to go to another team. Not that Cleveland is any better than this team or that team.

Tell all this to Lebron.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I think. I was never at any point arguing that Cleveland doesn't have any of these problems. My only point is that I think Lebron is more likely to stay in Cleveland than he is to go to another team. Not that Cleveland is any better than this team or that team.

Tell all this to Lebron.

Already did bro
I even sent him the lebron to dallas song for a ringtone

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I think. I was never at any point arguing that Cleveland doesn't have any of these problems. My only point is that I think Lebron is more likely to stay in Cleveland than he is to go to another team. Not that Cleveland is any better than this team or that team.

Tell all this to Lebron.

The nice thing is that the fans and the media are telling him this all offseason. He's receiving a large chunk of the blame for the loss in the playoffs (and he certainly deserves some of it). But don't you think a part of him has to look at his roster and say, "Was that all really on me?"