What does "playing out of flow" really mean?

[dude1394]

From a recent interview with Carlisle a phrase I've heard more and more.

As a coach, you like to have set plays and plans, but do you ever just send them out there and let Jason Kidd get the ball to Dirk Nowitzki?
Well, one of the things we've really worked on and this is another area of focus is for us to be able to play out of 'flow' as much as possible. And that means no play calling; it's just spacing the court, having concepts that figure personnel and being able to be a ball movement team with a real element of unpredictability. Now, you got to have plays, you got to have things to go to for execution down the stretch when you need to do that but when you get into the playoffs, teams become so familiar with one another that you've got to be able to "play basketball" and we're working very hard on that element of the game. It's like the zone defense: it's work, it's communication, it's understand and it's trust. The players have to trust that the system is the right system and that the coaches have to trust that the players can execute and make the right decisions, so there's a lot that goes into it but again, it's another area we've worked really hard on.

Now what is he really talking about? It seems to be more than Jkiddo calling the plays. Is it a set of principles like the triangle offense or the Princeton Offense? They seem to know what they are doing out there most of the time and Jkiddo is orchestrating it.



We see the pretty normal end of game sets from Dirk/Jet but everything else seems to well sorta "flow"??



What the heck are the mavs really up to here?

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by dude1394

What the heck are the mavs really up to here?

sounds like just playing based on your own instinct and basketball IQ and such. Like playing pickup - knowing enough about your own game and your teammate's that you just go out and play with no set design in mind. This makes sense if you've got high IQ players like Kidd and Dirk out there who know each other and are familiar with one another. Recognizing mismatches that might come from early offense/setting picks, etc. Going with the hot hand. Lots of motion and dive cuts (esp. Marion) and guys spotting up for kick outs, etc.

[xrobx]

it's called the "do whatever you feel like" offense

[Usually Lurkin]

Does this mean we can't blame Carlisle for not getting the ball to Dirk enough?

[dude1394]

I can't believe that it really that unstructured. I mean....really????

Of course not, Carlisle will be blamed for everything...

[Underdog]

I thought this thread title had something to do with WNBA players getting all moody for one week each month...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I thought this thread title had something to do with WNBA players getting all moody for one week each month...

smart-aleck!! I knew when I wrote it that I had to be kinda careful there.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I thought this thread title had something to do with WNBA players getting all moody for one week each month...

...and I thought the thread title refers to the other three weeks each month when the ladies are literally "out of flow" and thus play accordingly. Need to re-adjust my brains on this one. Subpar second language acquisition for the loss.

(Actually, I only thought about it after you saw the hilarity in it and mentioned it, Underdog. Would +rep you if I could.)

[Murphy3]

The offense is a system..not a set of plays. Yes, you have set plays for when you want to get the ball to Dirk down the stretch..or when you're throwing the ball in with a just a few seconds left on the shot clock.. but, otherwise, the offense is a system.

[Funkman]

I think there is a basic set or positions of sort, then they run/react off of that. Most times when they get across half court, Chandler comes up around the key, from where he sets a pick. From there depending on what the defense does, he rolls to the rim, or heads for some position under the goal if the ball moves to someone else. Stevenson goes behind the 3 point line and waits there. If other options breakdown he is there for the bailout 3, though he has been putting the ball on the floor and driving for a shot or trying to make something happen lately. Caron goes to the opposite side of the floor from Stevenson. Stays along the baseline out to the 3 points line, but if Dirk works to that side of the key, he'll slide out to the 3 point line higher up.

Depending on if the other team is playing man to man, zone or if they switch. Kidd decides where to go with the ball, then they all react from there. Or at least that's my take on it. Which could be totally wrong.

[Underdog]

(sorry, I never matured past the age of 14...)


It seems to me that Jason Kidd's game very much depends on "feel"... He's a heady player, but he also has an innate sense of where everyone is on the floor and how they're performing, as if he's feeding off the vibes of the other 9 players. I know it sounds hippy-dippy/new age, but I think he's developed some kind of sixth sense over the years that trumps anything a coach can see from the sidelines...

He might actually be one of the most natural player-coach hybrids in NBA history and Carlisle is smart enough to realize it (not that RC doesn't coach the offense in practice or timeouts, but Kidd tends to take over on the floor...)

[rabbitproof]

I have no idea. I assume there are some general principles like you stand in the paint and you stay behind the arc in the corner but otherwise, go nuts.

When you play streetball or pickup, you don't have plays. You just read the defense and jive off your team mates.

[Rhylan]

I assume it's a handful of sets with multiple options as the movement progresses... after the first pass or two, once your movement develops, any time you get the ball you've got a couple different looks on where to go with it based on what the defense is giving you and how well you executed.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

(sorry, I never matured past the age of 14...)


It seems to me that Jason Kidd's game very much depends on "feel"... He's a heady player, but he also has an innate sense of where everyone is on the floor and how they're performing, as if he's feeding off the vibes of the other 9 players. I know it sounds hippy-dippy/new age, but I think he's developed some kind of sixth sense over the years that trumps anything a coach can see from the sidelines...

He might actually be one of the most natural player-coach hybrids in NBA history and Carlisle is smart enough to realize it (not that RC doesn't coach the offense in practice or timeouts, but Kidd tends to take over on the floor...)

Kidd knows offense and how defenses are supposed to react to it. There was this instance in HS he was on the ground, scrambling for a loose ball, back turned to his offensive basket, he flipped the ball over his head to a teammate for a layup. His reasoning, if so and so was in proper defensive position, it was an easy lay in. They were a running a full court 1-3-1 press. He'd make these amazing no look passes, but it's his ability to translate proper basketball positioning back and forth....hoops IQ that is. He's doing the same now.

[sefant77]

Doing it the opposite way of Avery Johnson

[Usually Lurkin]

Butler was interviewed going to the lockerroom at halftime against the Blazers tonight. He used the word "flow" repeatedly in his last couple of sentences. "We need to get our flow offense going."

Judging from the second half, "flow offense" means passing around for lazy jumpshots for a quarter, then letting Dirk score all the points you need to win in the 4th.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Butler was interviewed going to the lockerroom at halftime against the Blazers tonight. He used the word "flow" repeatedly in his last couple of sentences. "We need to get our flow offense going."

Judging from the second half, "flow offense" means passing around for lazy jumpshots for a quarter, then letting Dirk score all the points you need to win in the 4th.

Caron is so predictable on offense. After catching the ball, I'm
correct about 70-80% of the time when I tell myself he's going to pull up and shoot without dribbling.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by Rick41

Caron is so predictable on offense. After catching the ball, I'm
correct about 70-80% of the time when I tell myself he's going to pull up and shoot without dribbling.

Yesterday he was going to the basket 3-4 times...

If he can does it consistent he will be tougher to defend.

[Funkman]

It's the same move for Caron. Two jabs steps then the jumper. I'm surprised they haven't figured out the timing in the scouting reports and just sit on the jab steps and then defend the jumper.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Kante

Yesterday he was going to the basket 3-4 times...

If he can does it consistent he will be tougher to defend.

He did great yesterday. I wish ESPN.com would leave the games up for a couple days at least so I could rewatch the game. There is a lot more movement in the Mavs offense these days (compared to the last few years). Ball movement and people movement. Someone's always running across the lane, and there are lots of screens. Much of it last night got open shots on the perimeter (just because of the zone?). I'd like to rewatch and see if Caron's drives came from the same offense. Terry's definitely did. Terry drove a few times, and he drove at times when I thought he was going to stand there and throw up the jumper. I loved to see it.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

He did great yesterday. I wish ESPN.com would leave the games up for a couple days at least so I could rewatch the game. There is a lot more movement in the Mavs offense these days (compared to the last few years). Ball movement and people movement. Someone's always running across the lane, and there are lots of screens. Much of it last night got open shots on the perimeter (just because of the zone?). I'd like to rewatch and see if Caron's drives came from the same offense. Terry's definitely did. Terry drove a few times, and he drove at times when I thought he was going to stand there and throw up the jumper. I loved to see it.

Yep.

One of the things that I think is a smart move to implement on RC's part is utilizing Chandlers decent shooting touch. He has the green light to fire away coming off screens if he's open, in fact it seems obvious to me that the play is drawn up for him to get the shot or dump it off on the help which really hasn't come yet. He has been wide open more times than not and made teams pay especially early in games. If he continues to hit that shot with decent %, that will open some more things up wether it be Dirk or whoever ends up open on the dump off or swing. That is eventually going to open the floor more in the long run for Dirk imo especially in the playoffs where teams get a chance to focus down on one team and their tendencies.
The threat was never real with Damp or Haywood really. I think more and more guys are gonna try to jump out on that and sooner or later more than one guy will and it will leave Dirk or the screener open at the rim. That threat will be one more weapon in the arsenal and hopefully clear up more room for Dirk and give he help defenses on him something else to think about.