Mavs in a no-lose situation with free agency this time

[echo]

Originally posted by: Eman
Why not Sharif Abdur Rahim? He's 6'9, can rebound and can be had for the mid level I hear. If we can't get a bigger guy with some skills, he has some value, I think, especially if he can score inside.

E

I would be interested in him, but we would have to move KVH. Is he willing to come off the bench?

[Eman]

Maybe we can trade KVH and get a F/C in a sign and trade? Nice expiring contract. Nice player, not sure if I want to lose him but it would be nice to have someone else who could score inside AND defend.

[The Miles]

Stephen Hunter is a much much better choice than these two. . .although not as easy to get. He as at least proven his ability to play at a higher level.

Steven Hunter easier to get than Gadzuric? Gadzuric is a RFA, Hunter is an UFA. Gadzuric is proven, Hunter isn't. Gadzuric is a lot better than Hunter and will cost more.

We can either use our MLE to get a guy like Gadzuric or we can split it and get a combo, ie Raja + a big which in that case makes Chris Andersen #1 on my list. The love that a 4.ppg 2.5 rpg Hunter gets disturbs me.

[echo]

Originally posted by: Eman
Maybe we can trade KVH and get a F/C in a sign and trade? Nice expiring contract. Nice player, not sure if I want to lose him but it would be nice to have someone else who could score inside AND defend.

I have no problem keeping KVH, but I agree I would prefer a guy who's a better defender. I think Rahim is a better overall player than KVH. The problem with both of those guys is they won't give you any center minutes. Ideally you get a PF/C type, but if not I think we need a capabale backup center as I don't want to see Dirk there. Obviously I'm not sold on DJ or PPod. They are a year away at best, and may never be anything. I'm sure the Mavs are hoping Ratliff gets dropped.

[Eman]

I don't know if Shareef is willing to come off the bench, we should have Avery talk to him about that. Many players will sacrifice starting if they can still get minutes and play for a contender, and with Shareef and trading KVH for a backup center, we would be even more of a contender---------We would also be more athletic and more able to score inside.

[Murphy3]

echo, impressive work over the past few days. You've come out of basically nowhere and started firing off well thought out posts. You've been perhaps the most enjoyable read on the site over the past few days.

Anyways, back to the subject at hand. The mavs need athleticism at the 4/5 spot. I'm not opposed to adding Mutombo at all, but he could reach a point to where his contributions diminish at any point with his old age. Plus, he's by no means extremely athletic. However, he is a guy that has the respect of officials league wide. He will get the benefit of the doubt more often than not because of his defensive reputation.

But at some point, the Mavs must add a young player at the 4/5 spot that has superb athleticism.

[echo]

Hi Murphy,

Thanks! I posted a few times in 2003 and disappeared, but I've followed the board a lot since I'm no longer local. I think the reaction to Finley motivated me to post. I don't think it's the end of the world and I'm actually pretty excited about this offseason. I see a new direction under AJ and I think we need to give him a chance. Nellie wasn't going to get us over the top with his style. AJ may not either, but I think a new philosphy is in order.

I'm not opposed to bringing in someone like Mutombo at the vet minimum, but I think it's a stretch to expect him to play 80 games and give you 16-20 minutes a night. Damp is foul prone so whoever backs him up will get a lot of minutes. I like Mutombo as a 3rd center, a guy who you use for particular matchups, and would prefer someone like him over a 3rd point guard. Let Daniels be your emergency 3rd PG. I would very much like an athletic 4/5 here as a change of pace. I would much prefer that over KVH, and I have nothing against Van Horn. I don't want to see Dirk playing center. That sounds like a broken record!

[kg_veteran]

The reason I'm so high on Mutombo is that I think he'll pay dividends when it counts -- in the playoffs. He played in 80 games last year, 15 mpg behind Yao. I don't really think it's a stretch to expect him to play 16-20 mpg behind Damp next year. Dampier averaged 27.3 mpg last year. I don't see why he can't log 30 mpg next year during the regular season, particularly with Avery coaching full-time.

If you retain KVH, he can cover the few minutes that Mutombo can't in combination with Dirk. If you don't retain KVH, well then you're probably gonna have a new backup PF anyway who can do the same.

Chris Andersen scares me because he only does one thing well, and he puts up decent numbers on a bad team. Also, he's not a center. At all.

[echo]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The reason I'm so high on Mutombo is that I think he'll pay dividends when it counts -- in the playoffs. He played in 80 games last year, 15 mpg behind Yao. I don't really think it's a stretch to expect him to play 16-20 mpg behind Damp next year. Dampier averaged 27.3 mpg last year. I don't see why he can't log 30 mpg next year during the regular season, particularly with Avery coaching full-time.

If you retain KVH, he can cover the few minutes that Mutombo can't in combination with Dirk. If you don't retain KVH, well then you're probably gonna have a new backup PF anyway who can do the same.

Chris Andersen scares me because he only does one thing well, and he puts up decent numbers on a bad team. Also, he's not a center. At all.

True, Mutombo would be nice to have for the playoffs. I just don't want for the Mavs to invest much in a 40 year old center. Would love to have him at the vet minimum though,

KVH? I would like to see him moved for PJ Brown. I think it's definitely a trade NO would do, and Brown can give you some center minutes. Ratliff is a guy I'm sure the Mavs would like to see waived. He can play 4/5 and is a change of pace. Gadzuric is another one I like. Anderson would be a vet minimum guy. Not sure I invest much more in him.

I also think the Mavs will pursue a big trade, either Pierce or a S&T, so that may factor into all of this. Even if they don't pull anything off, I think we can fill our basic needs with available FA's.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Back up center is a bigger position then people are makign it out to be. When Damp doesn't show up or is in foul trouble, which was about half the time last season, then our new player is gonna have to show up big. The birdman may not have the fundamentals, but man that guy was on highlight reels galore last year with put-backs. He could be our Najera-type energy player. What I thought our team lacked last year and in the playoffs was an energy booster. I really could see him as a fan favorite with his exciting blocks and dunks.

[LRB]

If we could get Mutumbo, and I have seriously doubts that we can, he'd be worth the price if we want to seriously contend this year. If Cuban has decided not to be a serious contender and have another rebuilding year, then we should look for someone younger.

[EricaLubarsky]

If we could get Mutombo, then Cuban should really think twice about Finley.

[Speedy]

Cliff Robinson would be a low cost one year fix. He could play the 4/5 and allow the Mavs to use KVB if a good trade came along. This would also allow the Mavs some flexability by not having the entire MLE tied up in a player in case Mbenga/Pavel improve over the course of next year.

The Mavs were interested in him at the deadline this year. Don't know how much he has left in the tank though.

[grndmstr_c]

A few thoughts:

Mutombo - I'd just sort of assumed he'd want to return to Houston, but he'd be a great pickup. A frontcourt that already boasts Dirk, KVH, and Damp doesn't really need more than 15 mpg tops out of their backup center. Deke sure looked last year like he was more than capable of playing at a high level in that amount of on-court time.

Gad - Miles, I was surprised to not see his name mentioned in that article, as well. Then again, I think that was Sefko's list of potential additions rather than the Mavs' personal list. He's still my #1. I'd absolutely love to have him.

Andersen - Just some stats to consider on the guy. In Denver in 02/03, great rebound and block numbers, but horrible efg% (owing in large part to having no range whatsoever and taking too many jumpers), and a weak net +/- on a very bad team. In Denver in 03/04 the rebounding and block numbers were again excellent, the efg% was somewhat improved (thought still not close to where it should be for a big guy who plays that kind of game), and the net +/- was moderately improved on a team that was significantly better than it had been the year before. Last year, with NO, rebounds and blocks again look good, offensive efficiency climbed by almost 10 percentage points up to 53% (and this resulted from improvements in his scoring from range as well as in close), and the net +/- was tops on the team at +8.1, with all but two players on the Hornets' roster boasting a better on-court +/- when they shared the floor with him as compared to their average (compare he and PJ to PJ and Magloire, for example. The Hornets were -3.9 when PJ and Magloire shared time on the court; they were +3.3 when PJ and Andersen shared time on the court). The Hornets' offense worked better with him on the court, and the defense was vastly improved, as they allowed 6 fewer points with him on the court as compared to off, and cut their efg% allowed from over 50% down to 46.8%.

The point, basically, is that there's a very clear trend in the guy's numbers that show him progressing from an athletic energy guy who had absolutely no idea how to play winning basketball, to an energy guy who I think could be a nice contributor in 15+ mpg on a good team. All of that depends on what he's going to cost, though. I agree he's not worth the MLE. But if you can land him for somewhere around the LLE, thus leaving 3+ million of the MLE to perhaps throw at a waivee or a UFA or someone like Raja, or even to hold on to in case somebody worth bringing in gets cut midseason, I think the investment would be well worth it.

PJ Brown - I'd give up very little to get him. I'm just concerned he doesn't have much left in his tank, as his +/- over the last few years has been going in the wrong direction. Three years ago he would have been the a terrific 3rd guy in the frontcourt rotation, though.

SAR - I like him as a backup at both forward spots, but that's not what we need, and I'd think he's going to want to start somewhere.

Edit: Since Cliff Robinson's name came up while I was typing. I don't think he's all that good a player, anymore. Not really interested.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Nice stats on Anderson grndmstr, although his lag in the slam dunk contest might sway some minds [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] hehehe j/k. I think if we can get him and a player like Bell, that would be ideal for us and an A for summer free agency.

[unstandable]

Andersen's resigning with the Hornets and Bell is signing with Phoenix:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2098485

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hahaha well there goes that theory then, jesus the Suns are agressive. At least that makes acquiring FInley less probable.

[echo]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Hahaha well there goes that theory then, jesus the Suns are agressive. At least that makes acquiring FInley less probable.

NO will resign Nachbar too. Probably means Jacobsen is definitely gone.

The Bell signing is odd. Assuming they resign Joe Johnson (and I think it's almost certain they do) and with Jim Jackson already on board, any minutes Finley would get will be reduced. They may still want Fin, but if so I find this signing a bit odd.

[grndmstr_c]

Jacobsen would be a guy worth looking at as a shooter off the bench

[echo]

BTW the same article mentioned the Nets, Knicks, Cavs, Heat and Spurs are interested in SAR. He wants more than the MLE. I don't think he comes to the Mavs because he could start for any of those teams except SA. The Nets are also interested in Donyell Marshall, Othella Harrington, Alan Henderson, Steven Hunter, Jerome James and Stromile Swift.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
If we could get Mutombo, then Cuban should really think twice about Finley.

Why?

[bgantz]

does no one like a chance on reggie evans?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Why?

Because with the old folks around, Cuban has to think of a Championship ASAP.

[grndmstr_c]

I like Evans, but he's not ideal for what the Mavs need. I'm guessing (just a gut feeling, nothing to back it up) that he'll get close to the MLE, and can't see that being a particularly good allocation of resources - unless Keith's on his way out to address some other areas of need, in which case Evans would be a very nice pickup.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

With the way the Mavs history of pursuing free agents goes, we'll probably get the bottom of the barrell again.

[EricaLubarsky]

Yeah like when we low-balled Redd, or scrutinized Zo

[echo]

grndmstr_c:

Agree. Reggie Evans isn't a fit as long as KVH is here. He's strictly a PF. I like him, but he's not on the radar unless KVH is moved.

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
With the way the Mavs history of pursuing free agents goes, we'll probably get the bottom of the barrell again.

So we don't get Raja Bell or Chris Anderson and we are already at the scrap heap? I'm kind of glad Raja is gone as I feared we might have given him half our MLE and he doesn't address our biggest needs. Not sure what NO is going to pay Anderson, but it's not like he was a priority either even though he fit our needs better than Raja.

[DallasMavaricks+Cowboys]

Rahim is a proven loser. Everywhere he goes the team goes down the drain.

Wait till an opportunity presents itself. Last time we tried to sign a big man we ended up with Eschenmeyer for some absurd amount like 24 million

[DallasMavaricks+Cowboys]

Rahim is a proven loser. Everywhere he goes the team goes down the drain.

Wait till an opportunity presents itself. Last time we tried to sign a big man we ended up with Eschenmeyer for some absurd amount like 24 million

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Thats true echo, but I sometimes feel like we wait for free agents to call us or something. No, I have more faith since we get to wait until those big contract players are waived. I'd rather get into that pool anyways. It still doesn't go away from the fact that we haven't done much in the last few years free agent wise.

[echo]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Thats true echo, but I sometimes feel like we wait for free agents to call us or something. No, I have more faith since we get to wait until those big contract players are waived. I'd rather get into that pool anyways. It still doesn't go away from the fact that we haven't done much in the last few years free agent wise.

That pool is what makes this year's free agents even more interesting. I think you have to be very careful early on as you may miss out on someone in that pool. I wasn't oppossed to bringing back Raja, but only at the league minimum AFTER we've sorted through everything else. Phoenix probably used half of theirs already. I would rather have say Jalen Rose or Theo Ratliff than Raja. If I'm the Mavs I am very selective early on. Make an offer only to your top priorities and then wait for the CBA pool.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yeah, this is true. But I think most of the players in that pool would play for cheap because they are already being paid their contracts anyway.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
With the way the Mavs history of pursuing free agents goes, we'll probably get the bottom of the barrell again.

If even that high.

[grndmstr_c]

I seem to remember the Mavs landing the big free agent center prize of last summer's crop in a sign and trade. Just sayin'...

[LRB]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I seem to remember the Mavs landing the big free agent center prize of last summer's crop in a sign and trade. Just sayin'...

Sign and trade yes I can see that, but signing a FA outright, I expect the Mavs to be at or near the bottom of the pecking order. Only problem with a sign and trade is we have to give up something versus just signing a FA outright without giving up anything as many of our rivals are doing.

[kg_veteran]

I don't see the connection between Mutombo and Finley, either. Mutombo is likely to be an acquisition for a portion of the MLE, if he comes. Dumping Finley actually makes it more likely that Cuban would spend the MLE, with the <u>potential</u> LT savings.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I seem to remember the Mavs landing the big free agent center prize of last summer's crop in a sign and trade. Just sayin'...

What are you saying? That you should be careful what you wish for?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I don't see the connection between Mutombo and Finley, either. Mutombo is likely to be an acquisition for a portion of the MLE, if he comes. Dumping Finley actually makes it more likely that Cuban would spend the MLE, with the <u>potential</u> LT savings.

I don't think it's as much about Cuban willing to pony up the Money, although if he isn't it's all a moot point anyways. I think that Mutumbo will have several different offers to select from which are as high or higher than what the Mavs will offer. So I think Mutumbo would decide on which one would have a best chance of wining a championship. If the Mavs cut Finely, then they have just hurt their chances at contending for a championship. We barely beat Houston with Fin and Houston without Juwan Howard, their best power forward. If Houston does nothing but stand pat, then they're likely ahead of us if we lose Fin for nothing. Even if it's not Houston, the Mavs are headed the wrong way talent wise.

[grndmstr_c]

LRB, Damp still had to agree to come here. And Dallas hasn't had anything more than the MLE to work with in FA for quite some time. Granted, not throwing a little more money at Redd was a mistake, but it's the reality of the Mavs' cap situation that the only way they've been able to get anything especially desirable in FA was through S&T; and for all the bellyaching the fact remains that last summer they succeeded in acquiring the best available free agent center.

[LRB]

Well I've repeatedly seen other FA's go to other teams for the MLE or less while the Mavs sit back and get the chumps who are left over. I only see this getting worse.

Still I'll grant your point that Damp had to at least want to come here.