Grade our draft !!

[Tony tha Mavs fan]

thats a good question ocelot, i guess not everyone saw the same "potential" in him .

[MavsFanFinley]

Chad Ford graded the teams and this is what he had to say about the Mavs pick.

Dallas Mavericks

Round 1: Josh Howard, F, Wake Forest (No. 29)

Deals: Traded Xue Yuyang (No. 57) to Denver for future second-round pick.
They got a steal with Josh Howard late in the first. He's the type of all-purpose guy who's thrived in Dallas the past few years. I'm a little surprised they left more physical post players such as Mario Austin, Zaur Pachulia and Malick Badiane on the board, but Howard is a real talent at No. 29.

Grade: B

[Mandyahl]

i agree with ford. our draft was a solid b as far as i can tell right now.

[David]

I throw my vote in with the noted NBA scout, Foglemann. I agree with his opinion over Mark's highly paid staff of scouts and the opinions of Donnie and Nellie.

[Evilmav2]

B-

Cuban and Nelson drafted for need, and left a lot of possibly greater talents on the board. That said, Cuban's comments seem to indicate that Nelson has covetted this guy for a while, and if he ends up being an underated Sprewell-Hardaway type of Nelson pick then this could be a blockbuster.

Anyway, at least next year I will enjoy watching Howard hopefully make inroads into our dismal small forward rotation... I just pray that he doesn't turn out to be Buckner II...

[Chiwas]

A theoretical B.

I'll tell you in January. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[foglemann]

keep it coming jackass, The mavs have never made a mistake, have they David. Just because I disagree doesn't make me wrong does it??[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

[David]

Originally posted by: foglemann
keep it coming jackass, The mavs have never made a mistake, have they David. Just because I disagree doesn't make me wrong does it??[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

If you're going to be hateful about it, I'll never agree with you again. I just figured you had, more than likely, spent part of the Foglemann fortune traveling all over the world scouting all the potential players in the draft and knew whereof what you speak, unlike Mark, Nellie and Donnie who, probably, just picked Howard's name out of a hat.

[Epitome22]

With all do respect, Donnie, Nellie and Mark have no more documented evidence of scouting or working out Mr. Howard than Foggleman here has.



As for grading the pick. I have no freaking clue. I've never seen the guy play. But you can't ask for a whole lot at #29 so if they managed to get a guy who was projected to a few picks earlier than I suppose they did the best they could.

[steponhens]

Yes, and I'm sure for all of you that the Nelson's had been working Lampe out twice a day since he put his name in the draft!

[Avrillicker]

Grade our draft

insignificant

[David]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
With all do respect, Donnie, Nellie and Mark have no more documented evidence of scouting or working out Mr. Howard than Foggleman here has.



As for grading the pick. I have no freaking clue. I've never seen the guy play. But you can't ask for a whole lot at #29 so if they managed to get a guy who was projected to a few picks earlier than I suppose they did the best they could.

Are you saying you don't think the Mavericks organization scouted the guy they drafted or are you saying that you want them to publish their scouting report in the newspapers? I've never seen the guy play either, so I don't know if he can play or not. Until I see him play, I'll hold off on regaling you people with my "expert" opinion. I, generally, lean toward presuming the people that are paid to do the job, actually ARE doing the job. I know others prefer to presume the Mavs, in the form of Nellie, AREN'T doing the job and speak out, accordingly. Different strokes, for different folks.

[Road Rage]

With all do respect, Donnie, Nellie and Mark have no more documented evidence of scouting or working out Mr. Howard than Foggleman here has.

Yeah, I'm sure the Mavs just drew the guy's name out of a hat.

[DNNF]

According to fogleman, Nelli and companies are magician [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[OutletPass]

throw my vote in with the noted NBA scout, Foglemann. I agree with his opinion over Mark's highly paid staff of scouts and the opinions of Donnie and Nellie.

David, This thread was "on topic" until you began your sarcastic comments towards Fogleman...but that's how it always goes. Someone raises a question about the organization and you start the BS.

Now, it's degenerated into foolishness...no one is "grading" anymore...just making comments about you and Fogleman. We have you to thank for that...

Yeah, yeah...I know the "litany" ...we're a sixty win team, built by Nellie's great moves...Nellie has been a great coach for a long time....Yada, Yada, Yada....so we can't question ANYTHING.

I suspect that things will always go on like this, but I wish that you'd allow people to post opposing views without feeling the need to resort to sarcasm and the "Nellie knee jerk defense". Chances of that happening, though, are just about nil, based on your history with others on the board.

Fogleman, pay no attention. Most of us have been down this road before.

I hope that we can get back to others posting their "grades" now.

[Julius]

To me it's a clean B

[Chiwas]

Originally posted by: Julius
To me it's a clean B

Bueno, Bonito y Barato.

Mexican saying: Good, Pretty ([img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img] ) and Cheap.

[FilthyFinMavs]

This is the problem with you guys. Like someone said above they wanted someone to slow down Shaq and TimmyD. You weren't gonna get that with the 29th pick. Until you get that in your head you will think this draft was bad. The Mavs got a small foward in this draft. They didn't go with a shooting guard or a piont guard or a poor mans Dirk they went with a need. Small Foward. It wasn't there biggest need but they got a guy who was a steal at that position in the draft. You don't pass that up. Great teams go and get the best available. It sort of reminds me of the Cowboys. Instead of getting the best available they go and get the player that helps them at a position they need.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
This is the problem with you guys. Like someone said above they wanted someone to slow down Shaq and TimmyD. You weren't gonna get that with the 29th pick. Until you get that in your head you will think this draft was bad. The Mavs got a small foward in this draft. They didn't go with a shooting guard or a piont guard or a poor mans Dirk they went with a need. Small Foward. It wasn't there biggest need but they got a guy who was a steal at that position in the draft. You don't pass that up. Great teams go and get the best available. It sort of reminds me of the Cowboys. Instead of getting the best available they go and get the player that helps them at a position they need.

But that's the thing. Howard sees himself as more of a 2. Everytime he's mentioned he's mention as a backup 2, he wants to play 2. Now, of course he'll play anywhere to get minutes, but he has the height of a 2 and seems to think that's what position he plays.

[DNNF]

I think he will play the 3 spot. If he plays two, he will not get any minute. He is long enough for SF.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark

But that's the thing. Howard sees himself as more of a 2. Everytime he's mentioned he's mention as a backup 2, he wants to play 2. Now, of course he'll play anywhere to get minutes, but he has the height of a 2 and seems to think that's what position he plays.

Well with a 7'2 inch wingspan I think you can convert that to the 3 spot. I'm not gonna lie I have never seen the guy play just have seen what people think of him. From what I hear he is a good rebounder and a good defender. From what I know is that he is very long. Sounds like a guy we could use at the 3 spot.

[David]

Originally posted by: OutletPass

David, This thread was "on topic" until you began your sarcastic comments towards Fogleman...but that's how it always goes. Someone raises a question about the organization and you start the BS.

Now, it's degenerated into foolishness...no one is "grading" anymore...just making comments about you and Fogleman. We have you to thank for that...

Yeah, yeah...I know the "litany" ...we're a sixty win team, built by Nellie's great moves...Nellie has been a great coach for a long time....Yada, Yada, Yada....so we can't question ANYTHING.

I suspect that things will always go on like this, but I wish that you'd allow people to post opposing views without feeling the need to resort to sarcasm and the "Nellie knee jerk defense". Chances of that happening, though, are just about nil, based on your history with others on the board.

Fogleman, pay no attention. Most of us have been down this road before.

I hope that we can get back to others posting their "grades" now.

Here's Foglemann's grade, complete with his signature:

"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, no doubt.

-------------------------
Josh Howard sucks..."

It's kind of hard to take his opinion, and grade, seriously, if this is all there is to it. He offerred nothing but the letter grade, in multiple, with no explanation, no nothing. Then changes his signature for the occasion. No evidence that he has ever seen him play.

Perhaps, everything is not me defending Nelson. Maybe I'm defending good sense. Is Foglemann knee-jerking? What does it look like?

Go ahead and offer my opinions for me, if you like. I'm still going to post on my own, anyway. I'll just mark you down as another who wants to offer both ends of the conversation in an attempt to control the thought processes of the other board members.

I actually like to read well thought out opinions that offer something, either way. I hate the knee-jerking and dog pileing that you seem to advocate. Thanks for your slanted input.

[JDA]

I'd say B+

The Mavs had a great player fall to then in Josh Howard. To bad it wasn't a big man, but of course there wasn't a Shaq or Duncan available either. THe Mavs worked the hand they were dealt. The weren't going to be able to get a lottery pic without giving up one of the big four, so all in all it was positive.

The trade in the second round was great! They practically traded away a late second rounder for a early second rounder next year.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Only a idiot would say a player sucks when that same person has never seen that player play.

[foglemann]

So much attention, I feel like a girl in prison.

David if you want my opinion, I will give it, but you always pull the same thing. Never anything direct, like, 'why is your reasoning behind that grade'. Just ask me why, its not hard. I posted that grade because he won't get much play time, he is undersized at the 3, and we passed up on potential better players. If Howard plays at that level for us at sometime, I will be estatic, but until then or until I think he is worth passing up on some other players that could be better, I will give it an F.

I also answered the question for the post 'give the grade, comment'. I said 'FFFFFFFFFFFFF, no doubt'. Might not be the most explained, but it is an answer and comment. I DID back up my this post with this one.

DNNF, it is an F. If you want to be dissapointed in Howard next year because you think that Nellie will play him and that you think he can actually contribute, then that's fine by me, but this draft was a F in my book. I don't think you want to go toe to toe in basketball knowledge with me, it would be sad. That is my opinion, don't get angry, its just a message board.

If you would not decide to be so smart about everything, it would be a better debate and decussion. Your the one calling me the professional. I never said I was anything more than a fan and wanted the best for the team. Also, why does it matter what my sig. is? Its not part of the debate, its just something I felt was needed to put me in my 'happy place'. I was not as excited as everyone when we drafted Howard.

MMF, Why am I an indiot just because I might have never seen him play and given such a grade. I did see one of his games on ESPN and I remember very cleary he had a great drive and dunk, added to a great shooting night. Seemed to me that he could do a nice job on a team. NOW, because I have seen him play, does that make me have to give a good grade for the Mavs, NO. I feel that he will contribute in small amounts and probably will get buried on the bench. I have always felt that you draft for potential and upside, and avoid the so called 'NBA ready' guys unless, of course, you are in the lottery and need help right away. This whole WIN NOW attitude is rediclous. You have to keep adding, not settling for people that MAY contribute when you can pick up guys that MAY contribute off the street. With players on the board that could become great players, its my thought is to grab them up and develope him. We have a deep bench, somewhat, and we can easily find formitable cheap FA, if we need to fill the roster. We won 60 games and went to the WCF, why draft a guy that's not going to add anything to it. Draft a guy that in two or three years, when we could need some help, come in and be ready.

[David]

Foglemann, you gave the worst possible grade and then repeated it, 31 more times and followed it with "no doubt" as if you were awfully positive about what you were talking about. As far as your signature, that just added more to your opinion and your opinion was apparently, unfounded. What you added with your signature was venom. You have no idea if Howard is a player or not, but it didn't stop you from hating on him.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: foglemann
So much attention, I feel like a girl in prison.

David if you want my opinion, I will give it, but you always pull the same thing. Never anything direct, like, 'why is your reasoning behind that grade'. Just ask me why, its not hard. I posted that grade because he won't get much play time, he is undersized at the 3, and we passed up on potential better players. If Howard plays at that level for us at sometime, I will be estatic, but until then or until I think he is worth passing up on some other players that could be better, I will give it an F.

I also answered the question for the post 'give the grade, comment'. I said 'FFFFFFFFFFFFF, no doubt'. Might not be the most explained, but it is an answer and comment. I DID back up my this post with this one.

If you would not decide to be so smart about everything, it would be a better debate and decussion. Your the one calling me the professional. I never said I was anything more than a fan and wanted the best for the team. Also, why does it matter what my sig. is? Its not part of the debate, its just something I felt was needed to put me in my 'happy place'. I was not as excited as everyone when we drafted Howard.

MMF, Why am I an indiot just because I might have never seen him play and given such a grade. I did see one of his games on ESPN and I remember very cleary he had a great drive and dunk, added to a great shooting night. Seemed to me that he could do a nice job on a team. NOW, because I have seen him play, does that make me have to give a good grade for the Mavs, NO. I feel that he will contribute in small amounts and probably will get buried on the bench. I have always felt that you draft for potential and upside, and avoid the so called 'NBA ready' guys unless, of course, you are in the lottery and need help right away. This whole WIN NOW attitude is rediclous. You have to keep adding, not settling for people that MAY contribute when you can pick up guys that MAY contribute off the street. With players on the board that could become great players, its my thought is to grab them up and develope him. We have a deep bench, somewhat, and we can easily find formitable cheap FA, if we need to fill the roster. We won 60 games and went to the WCF, why draft a guy that's not going to add anything to it. Draft a guy that in two or three years, when we could need some help, come in and be ready.

I didn't call you a idiot because of your grade I called you a idiot because of your signature. We have never seen this guy play on a NBA court. We weren't there when he was being scouted in Chicago or anywhere else. It's one thing to give him a grade of a F but it's another to say he sucks when you have seen him play one time collegiate. We were at the 29th pick. That means we were going to get a guy that every team in the NBA didn't want. Mavs got a guy who played in college for 4 years and his profile doesn't look to bad either. 7'2 inch wingspan, Good Defender, plays some small foward, etc. I'd understand this was a lottery pick we were talking about but for goodness sake this is the last pick of hte first round.

[foglemann]

gosh, if its just the sig. I can change it. I explained why I wrote it. Just thought of one I can replace it with.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: foglemann
gosh, if its just the sig. I can change it. I explained why I wrote it. Just thought of one I can replace it with.

Well I didn't see that thread.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I figured you were just upset we didn't draft a baby shaq or Badiane. I can understand the Lampe situation. However, I think of him as a soft player. I'm not sure if he would've addressed the Mavs needs.

[aexchange]

josh howard.

F---

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Bayliss]

I am not as harsh as MFFL. I believe that Howard is something that we definitely need. Will he ever be a superstar? I doubt it. But he can definitely be a very good role player/starter for us. And he does **everything** that we have been complaining about our other small forwards.

I give it a B-.

In my best Billy Madison voice:

I'm the smartest man alive!

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: OutletPass

David, This thread was "on topic" until you began your sarcastic comments towards Fogleman...but that's how it always goes. Someone raises a question about the organization and you start the BS.

Now, it's degenerated into foolishness...no one is "grading" anymore...just making comments about you and Fogleman. We have you to thank for that...

Yeah, yeah...I know the "litany" ...we're a sixty win team, built by Nellie's great moves...Nellie has been a great coach for a long time....Yada, Yada, Yada....so we can't question ANYTHING.

I suspect that things will always go on like this, but I wish that you'd allow people to post opposing views without feeling the need to resort to sarcasm and the "Nellie knee jerk defense". Chances of that happening, though, are just about nil, based on your history with others on the board.

Fogleman, pay no attention. Most of us have been down this road before.

I hope that we can get back to others posting their "grades" now.

OP, you are missed.

[MavKikiNYC]

You know it's summer when even d-mavs.com is dredging up re-runs.

[foglemann]

Man, was I wrong. The only reason I was so hateful that day was that I wanted the 'Magic' Lampe. He fell so far and thought he would be a great pick to eventually become our starter at the 3. I just didn't see the upside with Josh. I was obviously dead wrong. Funny looking back on it. I was real fired up then.
But I was a huge fan of the Marquis signing.

Sorry for being so idiotic and not seeing the potential of the great Josh.


Chiwas, I completely agree. OP PM'ed me that night telling me not to worry about David and his antics back in the day. I was and never have been a huge poster, but OP helped me like a big bro about the board and its goings on.

[The Miles]

I just pray that he doesn't turn out to be Buckner II...

Well, those prayers obviously came true, Josh is a stud.

Now pray for our rookie Cs, we need one of them to claim that backup spot.

[Bookit]

Chiwas, I completely agree. OP PM'ed me that night telling me not to worry about David and his antics back in the day. I was and never have been a huge poster, but OP helped me like a big bro about the board and its goings on.

Actually it is Bookit but with the same avatar as Chiwas.

[foglemann]

sorry Bookit, [img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img] Just remembering the good old days.