Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well, what exactly is Cuban supposed to do other than take the blame? He said it is his fault and that he'll work his ass off this summer to put a better product on the floor. Results will do the talking, but I believe him for the time being.

Just enjoy the few games left. There is no way to improve the team as this point so I don't see the point in going off on a guy who has already taken the blame for the crappy season.

I hope this wasn't in response to my post immediately above. I'm obviously not piling on Cuban; quite the opposite.

[chumdawg]

I, for one, have the guts to pile on Cuban. I don't worship at the trough, as it were. His second-to-last major decision as a GM was DEMONSTRABLY horrible...i.e., finding Nash overpaid in 2004. His next major decision--what to do with Chandler et al--may not have been as clearly demonstrably wrong, but it still leaves his backers resorting to rhetorical tricks just to save face.

Long story short, there is not much of a good track record here.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I, for one, have the guts to pile on Cuban. I don't worship at the trough, as it were. His second-to-last major decision as a GM was DEMONSTRABLY horrible...i.e., finding Nash overpaid in 2004. His next major decision--what to do with Chandler et al--may not have been as clearly demonstrably wrong, but it still leaves his backers resorting to rhetorical tricks just to save face.

Long story short, there is not much of a good track record here.

This all day.

[Dirk's Knee]

the more I think about it, my bet is we will see Nate Robinson (off the bench, but playing most the PG minutes) and Andrew Bynum in Mavs blue next year.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I hope this wasn't in response to my post immediately above. I'm obviously not piling on Cuban; quite the opposite.

No, more of a response to Bayliss talking in extreme hyperbole. But he had a rather rational response to it so it's all good.

Hey, people have every right to be pissed at the FO but right now there isn't really any way to improve the roster.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I, for one, have the guts to pile on Cuban. I don't worship at the trough, as it were. His second-to-last major decision as a GM was DEMONSTRABLY horrible...i.e., finding Nash overpaid in 2004. His next major decision--what to do with Chandler et al--may not have been as clearly demonstrably wrong, but it still leaves his backers resorting to rhetorical tricks just to save face.

Long story short, there is not much of a good track record here.

Nah, most of the media said its a giant gamble to add this extra year. No one expected this from Nash. And honestly i remembered several playoff games where Nash ran like a headless chicken over the court...

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

the more I think about it, my bet is we will see Nate Robinson (off the bench, but playing most the PG minutes) and Andrew Bynum in Mavs blue next year.

Mayo, Nate, Bynum.....eeeewwwwwwwwwww

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I, for one, have the guts to pile on Cuban. I don't worship at the trough, as it were. His second-to-last major decision as a GM was DEMONSTRABLY horrible...i.e., finding Nash overpaid in 2004. His next major decision--what to do with Chandler et al--may not have been as clearly demonstrably wrong, but it still leaves his backers resorting to rhetorical tricks just to save face.

Long story short, there is not much of a good track record here.

There's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about pretty much any issue related to Cuban, which is why it's disappointing to hear you couch the issue in terms of who has the "guts" to criticize versus who is "worship[ing] at the trough."

Sorry for the low blow, but it's awfully JJT of you. Red pill, right?

[EricaLubarsky]

Bynum is the kind of high-risk/high-reward guys that Cuban can get with his current strategy. We don't have a lot of trade resources so the only way we are going to speed up the rebuild is to take bets on guys like Bynum. He was a big trade piece last year and didn't play at all this year. He may never return or return to his former level. The question is how much does he go for.

I'm not saying I like him, but he's 25 and talented and probably way above the tier of player that we'll be realistically able to court.

Other than money for SnT and FA work, we only have a mid-first rounder and 3mill.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Bynum is the kind of high-risk/high-reward guys that Cuban can get with his current strategy. We don't have a lot of trade resources so the only way we are going to speed up the rebuild is to take bets on guys like Bynum. He was a big trade piece last year and didn't play at all this year. He may never return or return to his former level. The question is how much does he go for.

I'm not saying I like him, but he's 25 and talented and probably way above the tier of player that we'll be realistically able to court.

Yeah, I'm down for signing Bynum as well, provided that it's for 3 years or fewer. His knees will probably be tough to insure, though.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Mayo, Nate, Bynum.....eeeewwwwwwwwwww

Even if Bynum comes back at 75% of his former self, a 4 man rotation of Bynum, James, Wright, and Dirk would be among the best in the league. Given the large number of centers predicted top 20 in the draft this year, we'll likely pick one up as insurance against Bynum as well. I really think Bynum will come at a discount, a 2-3 year deal with a team option in the $12 mil and under range would be a deal I couldn't pass up. No one's going to go max on him with a missed season and the new CBA. This is all based on passing an extremely thorough examination.

As far as PG, it really boils down to who's really available and where the team wants to spend the money. I think Calderon/Robinson would be a good combination combining a more traditional starting point guard with a lightning quick and solid defensive bench option could work. I really think Calderon will be the best available when all is said and done. I mean, any player can be picked apart if looked at from the right perspective. The goal in the end is finding the pieces which fit together to make a whole greater than the sum of all the parts.

I still feel the failure of this season was Dirk missing so much time. If we played the first half as good as the second, we'd more than likely be looking at match up with the Nuggets in the first round. As long as this team is so Dirk-centric, we will live and die by his performance/availability.

[markus1234]

Bynum is inconsistent and injury prone. No thx.

Give me Cousins, Gortat, Okafor instead...

This league is not about slow big centers (anymore). It is about a strong backcourt, many FT-A, long rebounds, ball movement, 3pt shooting and things like that.

[oilfieldtrash]

I'd rather have a mobile athletic center (Chandler like) for the mavs. I cant imagine Bynum's knees getting any better with age and the amount of pressure his knees are under with his frame.

Mavs have always been a run and gun team and I'd like for them to continue that. Bynum would bog down the mavs too much.

Also F him for the Barea incident.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Bynum is inconsistent and injury prone. No thx.

Give me Cousins, Gortat, Okafor instead...

This league is not about slow big centers (anymore). It is about a strong backcourt, many FT-A, long rebounds and things like that.

There just isn't the centers out there capable of being the man. If there was a prime Shaq or Olajuwon available I'd gladly build a team around that.

So yes for now it's a backcourt league. Until the next group of dominant centers arrive.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I'd rather have a mobile athletic center (Chandler like) for the mavs. I cant imagine Bynum's knees getting any better with age and the amount of pressure his knees are under with his frame.

Mavs have always been a run and gun team and I'd like for them to continue that. Bynum would bog down the mavs too much.

Also F him for the Barea incident.

Run and gun? Have you watched the RC Mavericks at all? They've been playing a half court offensive for quite a few years now do to lack of speed from Dirk and Kidd. This year we ran the floor so hard for the first half the season due to Dirk being out. If your building a run and gun team, Dirk would be a liability as well.

Like I said, I can pick apart any player. Perfection doesn't exist. He's a gamble worth taking for the right money and a short term deal in hopes that Wright, James, and the center they presumably pick up this year would be the youthful low post prospects moving into the post Dirk years. What we need more than anything at C is a more traditional low post defender and Bynum could fit that role nicely in the short term. And while i don't want to see players get hurt, the ferocity in the Barea incident is kinda what you want in a big man down low. Someone who makes guards think twice before driving on him (just rather than a closeline, perhaps stepping into the lane and knocking them back).

I would try to place the long term emphasis on point guard. If we can get Jarrett Jack or God willing Chris Paul, then you do it for sure. But my bet is Calderon will be the best available.

[AtlMavsFan]

We need to get more European players.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Run and gun? Have you watched the RC Mavericks at all? They've been playing a half court offensive for quite a few years now do to lack of speed from Dirk and Kidd. This year we ran the floor so hard for the first half the season due to Dirk being out. If your building a run and gun team, Dirk would be a liability as well.

Like I said, I can pick apart any player. Perfection doesn't exist. He's a gamble worth taking for the right money and a short term deal in hopes that Wright, James, and the center they presumably pick up this year would be the youthful low post prospects moving into the post Dirk years. What we need more than anything at C is a more traditional low post defender and Bynum could fit that role nicely in the short term. And while i don't want to see players get hurt, the ferocity in the Barea incident is kinda what you want in a big man down low. Someone who makes guards think twice before driving on him (just rather than a closeline, perhaps stepping into the lane and knocking them back).

I would try to place the long term emphasis on point guard. If we can get Jarrett Jack or God willing Chris Paul, then you do it for sure. But my bet is Calderon will be the best available.

Man the mavs must be the best halfcourt team of all time. To average 101 ppg for the season they must shoot 80% for the game. While true halfcourt teams like Indiana and Chicago average under 95ppg.

Btw Carlisle tried to run a halfcourt offense here when he first got here. It failed miserably. Even Carlisle acknowledged it and changed it to a more run and gun offense.

But who am I to use facts instead of pulling stuff out of my butt?

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Man the mavs must be the best halfcourt team of all time. To average 101 ppg for the season they must shoot 80% for the game. While true halfcourt teams like Indiana and Chicago average under 95ppg.

Btw Carlisle tried to run a halfcourt offense here when he first got here. It failed miserably. Even Carlisle acknowledged it and changed it to a more run and gun offense.

But who am I to use facts instead of pulling stuff out of my butt?

It's true that we've run a lot more this year, but we were also missing our best player for 26 games (and he wasn't very useful for another 20) so we played a LOT of small ball. We've otherwise been in the middle third of the league in PPG and FGA this year and over the past few seasons. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Rick would prefer a post presence like Bynum as opposed to sticking with undersized guys in the Wright/Brand mold.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Bynum is inconsistent and injury prone. No thx.

Give me Cousins, Gortat, Okafor instead...

This league is not about slow big centers (anymore). It is about a strong backcourt, many FT-A, long rebounds, ball movement, 3pt shooting and things like that.

But I think that is perhaps part of Dirk's Knee's point. Getting players to compete with the pg/sg/sfs of the great teams (Miami, OKC) is very difficult to do. Why not form a team to beat them at their weaker positions? Bynum would be a risk, but a Dirk/Howard or Dirk/healthy Bynum would be near instant contenders IMO. Why? Because most teams won't be able to match that type of duo. Add in a re-signed Wright, and you definitely have the PF/C spot nailed. That is certainly a logical path back to contention IMO. If you could get Bynum for 3/40, then you certainly have to consider it. No max contract though.

[markus1234]

OK, agreed. But so far Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Yoakim Noah, Kevin Garnett, Roy Hibbert, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Al Jefferson and Dwight Howard could NOT beat them at their weaker positions. Is Bynum that much better ?

Do not get me wrong, for us having a solid center is crucial against MIA, OKC and co. But more on the defensive end. Chris Paul and Chandler would make us a contender right away...

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Man the mavs must be the best halfcourt team of all time. To average 101 ppg for the season they must shoot 80% for the game. While true halfcourt teams like Indiana and Chicago average under 95ppg.

Btw Carlisle tried to run a halfcourt offense here when he first got here. It failed miserably. Even Carlisle acknowledged it and changed it to a more run and gun offense.

But who am I to use facts instead of pulling stuff out of my butt?

The first half this year, they played at a crazy pace. Historically, not so much. Rank based on pace (average number of possessions).

2012 - 5th
2011 - 13th
2010 - 20th (curious, our "slowest" year was the most successful)
2009 - 17th
2008 - 17th

Perhaps you would call that run and gun. Not me. JKidd's strength with Dirk was the half court set. Of course, who am I to let facts get in the way of perception. Using only points to judge pace is a false indicator due to how well the Mavs shoot the ball compared with the rest of the league.

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But I think that is perhaps part of Dirk's Knee's point. Getting players to compete with the pg/sg/sfs of the great teams (Miami, OKC) is very difficult to do. Why not form a team to beat them at their weaker positions? Bynum would be a risk, but a Dirk/Howard or Dirk/healthy Bynum would be near instant contenders IMO. Why? Because most teams won't be able to match that type of duo. Add in a re-signed Wright, and you definitely have the PF/C spot nailed. That is certainly a logical path back to contention IMO. If you could get Bynum for 3/40, then you certainly have to consider it. No max contract though.

Exactly. Look at the teams with winning records vs Miami this year. Its mainly due to low post defense. If you can stop Westbrooks drives, they're done as well. When you need speed say against Houston or Golden State, you have 2 quicker guys in James and Wright if you need them. We will not land an all star PG this season. However, I firmly believe Dirk, Bynum, Wright, and James (presuming he improves, showed some flashes of promise this season) might be the most dominant combination of big men in the league. What we need at PG is someone functional with good court vision. If we draft well again this year, we could have some extremely valuable trade assets 2 or 3 years down the line to acquire that all star PG (if it's even still an issue for us). Even without an all star PG, I think a dominant inside game would make us immediate contenders.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by markus1234

OK, agreed. But so far Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Yoakim Noah, Kevin Garnett, Roy Hibbert, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Al Jefferson and Dwight Howard could NOT beat them at their weaker positions. Is Bynum that much better ? Do not get me wrong, for us having a solid center is crucial against MIA, OKC and co. But more on the defensive end.

Yes IMHO. Because we should be able to realistically get him and cheap compared to his potential (presuming he returns to strength). I mean, not too long ago there was a real debate over whether Bynum or Howard was the best center in the league. He's way more than simply functional at the position. And dominant both offensively and defensively.

Originally Posted by markus1234

Chris Paul and Chandler would make us a contender right away...

But that's a pipe dream that's never going to happen. we can play fantasy all day. I think Bynum and a functional PG (and backup) would equally make us a contender right away.

[sefant77]

So lets group the FA. I also ranked my preferences within the tiers.

Feel free to quote and add

Tier 1a: (pipedream)
Paul
Dwight


Tier 1b:
Iggy
Josh Smith
Peko

Tier 2:
Jack
Mayo
Ellis (told he will probably opt out)
Jennings
T.Allen
Calderon
Redick

Tier 3: (good roleplayer)
B.Wright
Brewer
Dalembert
Splitter

Tier 4: (nice role players i would to see here)
Morrow

Do not want because douchebags:
Bynum
Blatche
Nate
T.Evans

Do not want because cant play SF or C:
Jefferson
West
Millsap
Hickson

I left out some player with player options that didnt say if they opt in:
JR, Okafor, AK etc

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

The first half this year, they played at a crazy pace. Historically, not so much. Rank based on pace (average number of possessions).

2012 - 5th
2011 - 13th
2010 - 20th (curious, our "slowest" year was the most successful)
2009 - 17th
2008 - 17th

Perhaps you would call that run and gun. Not me. JKidd's strength with Dirk was the half court set. Of course, who am I to let facts get in the way of perception. Using only points to judge pace is a false indicator due to how well the Mavs shoot the ball compared with the rest of the league.



Exactly. Look at the teams with winning records vs Miami this year. Its mainly due to low post defense. If you can stop Westbrooks drives, they're done as well. When you need speed say against Houston or Golden State, you have 2 quicker guys in James and Wright if you need them. We will not land an all star PG this season. However, I firmly believe Dirk, Bynum, Wright, and James (presuming he improves, showed some flashes of promise this season) might be the most dominant combination of big men in the league. What we need at PG is someone functional with good court vision. If we draft well again this year, we could have some extremely valuable trade assets 2 or 3 years down the line to acquire that all star PG (if it's even still an issue for us). Even without an all star PG, I think a dominant inside game would make us immediate contenders.

Nice job of pulling an irrelevant stat out that has little to no bearing on the discussion we're having. Number of possessions has as much to do with your opponent as it does your own offense. If you play an Indiana your possessions are going to go down regardless of the style you play. Ppg is a much better indicator of the offense style. It is no coincidence that run and gun teams score more.
It's no coincidence that D'antoni or Don Nelson coached teams were always at the top of the scoring rankings. I'd love to see some of your "pace" stats on known run and gun teams.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Nice job of pulling an irrelevant stat out that has little to no bearing on the discussion we're having. Number of possessions has as much to do with your opponent as it does your own offense. If you play an Indiana your possessions are going to go down regardless of the style you play. Ppg is a much better indicator of the offense style. It is no coincidence that run and gun teams score more.

It's no coincidence that D'antoni or Don Nelson coached teams were always at the top of the scoring rankings. I'd love to see some of your "pace" stats on known run and gun teams.

It also levels out during the course of an 82-game season. It's no coincidence that teams with the fastest pace are also usually at the top of the league in scoring.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Nice job of pulling an irrelevant stat out that has little to no bearing on the discussion we're having. Number of possessions has as much to do with your opponent as it does your own offense. If you play an Indiana your possessions are going to go down regardless of the style you play. Ppg is a much better indicator of the offense style. It is no coincidence that run and gun teams score more.
It's no coincidence that D'antoni or Don Nelson coached teams were always at the top of the scoring rankings. I'd love to see some of your "pace" stats on known run and gun teams.

Sorry, I had the wrong definition. Pace is defined as (FGA-OREB+TO+FTA*.44/82)*(19680/Minutes) according to Hoopdata. Pretty sure it is the stat to refer to when grading the "speed" or...pace of play of a team. If you account for FGP, you quickly see why the Mavs score so high. You really want to stand by an argument that a Dirk/Kidd team was a run an gun team? I mean your talking about 2 of the slowest starting players at their respective positions during the last 5 years. And remember, we're talking about the RC Mavs, not the Nelson Mavs. Totally different offensive strategies. Besides the beginning of this season, just haven't seen a Mavs team run the floor like that in quite a few years. But by all means believe whatever you want.

http://www.hoopdata.com/teamoffstats...r=2011&type=pg

[Melonhead]

Do not want Bynum. Multiple surgeries, degenerate knees. Will never get back to his old self, and it only gets worse from here.

[Melonhead]

Otto Porter from Gtown has declared for the draft.

I want this dude.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

So lets group the FA. I also ranked my preferences within the tiers.

Feel free to quote and add

Tier 1a: (pipedream)
Paul
Dwight


Tier 1b:
Iggy
Josh Smith
Peko

Tier 2:
Jack
Mayo
Ellis (told he will probably opt out)
Jennings
T.Allen
Calderon
Redick

Tier 3: (good roleplayer)
B.Wright
Brewer
Dalembert
Splitter

Tier 4: (nice role players i would to see here)
Morrow

Do not want because douchebags:
Bynum
Blatche
Nate
T.Evans

Do not want because cant play SF or C:
Jefferson
West
Millsap
Hickson

I left out some player with player options that didnt say if they opt in:
JR, Okafor, AK etc

You may not like him, but Blatche is a badass. I have a few issue with your teiring system but, I'd Move him up into tier 1b.

[nowhereman]

If Howard and Paul are "tier 1a" then Iggy, Smith, and Pekovic are not tier 1b.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

the more I think about it, my bet is we will see Nate Robinson (off the bench, but playing most the PG minutes) and Andrew Bynum in Mavs blue next year.

I have such an incredibly hard time seeing Nate as an RC-type of guy. I think the Mavs are far more likely to target someone like Udrih if they end up needing to find a backup PG in the free agent market.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You may not like him, but Blatche is a badass. I have a few issue with your teiring system but, I'd Move him up into tier 1b.

Classic case of contract year

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Otto Porter from Gtown has declared for the draft.

I want this dude.

He may go as high as 3rd overall. Extremely unlikely

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have such an incredibly hard time seeing Nate as an RC-type of guy. I think the Mavs are far more likely to target someone like Udrih if they end up needing to find a backup PG in the free agent market.

True on both accounts

[sinsin]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Otto Porter from Gtown has declared for the draft.

I want this dude.

has got no left hand at all
he will not be able to drive to the basket as he is used to especially with his eurostep where he goes to the left but still finishes with the right hand... even i would block that shot without having to jump at all

[jasonic]

About the draft, because our weaknesses are in the PG and C spot, i think we should take a look at Carter Williams. But, his stock has risen lately so he might be not available.
I don't mind if we trade down for a pick and select Dieng. I think he would be great next to Dirk. Defensive minded, good rebounder and great passer. He 's raw though in the offense.

What about you? Who do you want from this draft, or you think we should trade our pick?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about pretty much any issue related to Cuban, which is why it's disappointing to hear you couch the issue in terms of who has the "guts" to criticize versus who is "worship[ing] at the trough."

Sorry for the low blow, but it's awfully JJT of you. Red pill, right?

Who said I wanted to reasonably disagree?

Heh...good one, the JJT bit.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You may not like him, but Blatche is a badass. I have a few issue with your teiring system but, I'd Move him up into tier 1b.

You are correct. He is a tough kid. We don't know what these guys have experienced in their lives. It takes some guys longer to grow up. He seems to have avoided trouble this year.

What's the problem with Tyreke?

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Do not want Bynum. Multiple surgeries, degenerate knees. Will never get back to his old self, and it only gets worse from here.

The samething was said about Vince Carter and he's been playing better than OJ Mayo and Mayo is younger, let's not forget about the 30 rebound game Bynum had vs the Spurs not that long ago.

[DFallasfans]

We will be rady