After Dirk, Who is the man?

[Windmill360]

This was a hot topic on ESPN 103.3 FM radio on the post game show. After Dirk Nowitzki, who do you think is the go to man for the Mavs? Let me put it this way: who would you want taking the last shot to win the game besides Dirk?

[Murphy3]

Personally, for me it'd be:

Terry
Fin
Stack
Damp

[poohrichardson]

I'll probably be virtually alone in this.. but why not Michael Finley? He has as much big-game experience as anyone.. he's nothing if not inconsistent, but it was a mere 2 seasons ago that he was playing some awesome playoff ball in the series' against Portland, Sacto and the Spurs..

It's gotta be either Finley or Stack. Stack just because if nothing else, he can drive and usually get a call, even with the clock ticking.

[grndmstr_c]

Dirk, Terry, and Fin are without doubt the three guys you want to try to get open looks for. All three are terrific shooters and I'm more than comfortable with any of them taking the final shot (even if I despise the Finley iso). If the question is who's hands should the ball be in, besides Dirk, I guess Terry. Best combination of handles, passing, and shooting ability of all the available options, IMO. As inconsistent a shooter as Stack is, if there's enough time to try for penetration he's not a bad option because he's better than anyone on the team outside of Dirk at drawing fouls, but the reluctance of refs to call fouls on end-of-the-game posessions might cancel that out.

[fin4life]

I think it is definetly Finley. He has done it before... including this season. Lets not forget about the game in Chicago.

After that, I would say Terry.

[Murphy3]

It's a tough decision. I think Terry is better at getting his own shot, and is showing that he rarely takes bad attempts.
I don't have a problem with Fin taking it either.

I suppose with me, it's not about who takes the last shot, it's about who I want to have the ball. First, give me Dirk and then give me Terry. Terry might not end up with the shot, but if he does, I'm willing to bet it's a good look. If he doesn't have a look and creates a shot for someone else, then that'd be fine with me.

The thing with Fin is this...he basically needs someone to help create his shot for him or it's likely to be a low percentage shot.

[MavsFanFinley]

Finley or Terry would be fine with me.

I know Stackhouse can get to the ft line but those turnovers make me cringe more than his jumpshot.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Finley or Terry would be fine with me.

I know Stackhouse can get to the ft line but those turnovers make me cringe more than his jumpshot.

Unfortunately, Stack seems to be the #2 option behind Dirk when he's on the court...

[Nash13]

Although Josh is our second best player, i'd take the number 4 shooter in the league.

[dude1394]

Terry and then stack. Terry because he's shooting so well (but he'd have to be open) but stack would be aggressive enough to take it inside.

[Bayliss]

I want Terry shooting as many times as he possibly can. In order of FGA's it should be:

Dirk (by a wide margin)
Terry (about 4 FGAs below)
Fin-Stack-Howard
Dampier-Bradley

[birdsanctuary]

Terry anywhere
Fin for 3
Bradley 10 ft jumper makes it every time
Daniels anywhere
Stack anywhere

[mary]

Terry, then Finley. I would rather Stack be on the bench in that situation. If there's ANY time on the clock and the shot is missed, Howard probably gives us the best chance for an offensive reboud/tip in.

Stack's shooting is not that great, and his ability to take it to the basket and draw contact is less useful at the end of games when refs are more likely allow contact without blowing their whistles.

I wish I could put Damp on my short list, but the man fumbles and loses the ball so easily....its starting to really annoy me.

[Misfit Mav]

I would still pick Finley, provided he's not in one of his cold streaks. However, Terry is quickly gaining and seems to never have cold streaks. The Mike Bibby analogies that were brought up when we traded for Terry are coming true.

[#41]

It's JET.

[giantbenmav]

dirk again


but seriously, Finley

[FilthyFinMavs]

I'd take Finley over Terry. It's great that Terry never misses a shot but with the exception of the game last week I haven't seen him hit a shot in the clutch consistently. I don't want to take anything away from Terry's shooting but he's open everytime he takes a shot. If Dirk's hurt does anyone think Terry would still be getting those open looks? If it's during the game i'd prefer Terry taking the shot but in the clutch Fin has hit shots more consistently then any player on this team with the exception of Dirk.

I would never trust Stack to win or lose a game for me in the clutch. I love how he drives but that guy turns over the ball everytime we are either in a close game or we are losing and trying to catch back up.

[endtroducing]

have you watched Finley this year? he takes shots that aren't even there. his performance the last string of games has been disgusting.

[The Miles]

Jet or Stack

Josh is our 2nd best player but not in this situation.

[Simon2]

I may be on an island here but isn't Nellie the type of coach who goes to the one with the mismatch? Doesn't matter if his name is Dirk or not. If you have a mismatch, you are getting the ball. To answer your question though, I say it will be Fin. Then I go with Stack. He can breakdown a defender and get to the hoop. Only choose Fin over Stack due to respect for Fin.

[SeriousSummer]

If you can't go to Dirk for some reason, the Mav I'd go to for one bucket at the end of the game (assuming he ever heals) is Marquis Daniels.

He can post up smaller guards and shoot over them. He can take it to the basket against larger players.

In his own way, he's almost as much of a match up problem as Dirk is. Before the end of the year, I think he'll get well and we'll have a chance to see how much he can do.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Simon2
I may be on an island here but isn't Nellie the type of coach who goes to the one with the mismatch? Doesn't matter if his name is Dirk or not. If you have a mismatch, you are getting the ball. To answer your question though, I say it will be Fin. Then I go with Stack. He can breakdown a defender and get to the hoop. Only choose Fin over Stack due to respect for Fin.

Unfortunately, you're right. At times, Nellie would rather go with a mismatch instead of taking advantage of the inherent mismatches that your best player/s create/s. That's been a gripe of mine concerning Nellie for quite some time.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Unfortunately, you're right. At times, Nellie would rather go with a mismatch instead of taking advantage of the inherent mismatches that your best player/s create/s. That's been a gripe of mine concerning Nellie for quite some time.

I'm glad someone else noticed it. I think what Nellie fails to realize is that Dirk is a mismatch for anyone in the league. No one can guard Dirk. Then again, Dirk doens't need to take the last shot either. The ball though must run thru his hands so he can take the shot or pass to an open man.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: Simon2

I'm glad someone else noticed it. I think what Nellie fails to realize is that Dirk is a mismatch for anyone in the league. No one can guard Dirk. Then again, Dirk doens't need to take the last shot either. The ball though must run thru his hands so he can take the shot or pass to an open man.

I highly doubt that this point is lost on Nellie. In fact, this point is solely the reason Nowitzki is wearing Mavericks blue. Nellie loves the walking mismatch, which is what he not only saw in Nowitzki, but more importantly, what he helped to create. Not to take anything away from little Stevie, but to be fair, you have to wonder if he would be the player he is today if not for Nelson's tutelage. Though it may be hard to appreciate, given how incredibly skilled the Big German is, you have to figure that Nellie has also handled him pretty well throughout his career.

As for game-ending situations...well, I guess the ideal situation would be to have a Michael Jordan on your team. Failing that--which just about every team these days does--the next ideal situation would be to have deep enough talent so that your team poses more than one threat to the opposition. Of course Nowitzki is the most potent threat, but that doesn't mean that everyone else should be routinely dismissed. Does it?

[Simon2]

Its hard to dispute what Dirk has become and the contributions of Nellie to it but you can't really wonder if Dirk could be more if Nellie did two more things:

1. Instilled defense in the Big Guy. I mean really, really forced him to play and appreciate at the value of good D in the beginning.
2. Forcefeed him the ball in late game situations. Seems like the play never was for Dirk

Originally posted by: chumdawg

I highly doubt that this point is lost on Nellie. In fact, this point is solely the reason Nowitzki is wearing Mavericks blue. Nellie loves the walking mismatch, which is what he not only saw in Nowitzki, but more importantly, what he helped to create. Not to take anything away from little Stevie, but to be fair, you have to wonder if he would be the player he is today if not for Nelson's tutelage. Though it may be hard to appreciate, given how incredibly skilled the Big German is, you have to figure that Nellie has also handled him pretty well throughout his career.

As for game-ending situations...well, I guess the ideal situation would be to have a Michael Jordan on your team. Failing that--which just about every team these days does--the next ideal situation would be to have deep enough talent so that your team poses more than one threat to the opposition. Of course Nowitzki is the most potent threat, but that doesn't mean that everyone else should be routinely dismissed. Does it?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: chumdawg

I highly doubt that this point is lost on Nellie. In fact, this point is solely the reason Nowitzki is wearing Mavericks blue. Nellie loves the walking mismatch, which is what he not only saw in Nowitzki, but more importantly, what he helped to create. Not to take anything away from little Stevie, but to be fair, you have to wonder if he would be the player he is today if not for Nelson's tutelage. Though it may be hard to appreciate, given how incredibly skilled the Big German is, you have to figure that Nellie has also handled him pretty well throughout his career.

As for game-ending situations...well, I guess the ideal situation would be to have a Michael Jordan on your team. Failing that--which just about every team these days does--the next ideal situation would be to have deep enough talent so that your team poses more than one threat to the opposition. Of course Nowitzki is the most potent threat, but that doesn't mean that everyone else should be routinely dismissed. Does it?

I can agree that Nellie was key early in Dirk's career. But, I honestly believe that Nellie wasted a year of Dirk's career last year. I also believe that alot of coaches would have helped interior development both offensively and defensively much more than Nellie.

[chumdawg]

I don't disagree, Simon. But I think that we will continue to watch Dirk develop into that sort of player. He's getting better defensively all the time. Perhaps this is something that naturally takes a while, especially for someone who played in Europe all his young life.

I also think he's getting "forcefed" the ball more often these days. We have to remember that it's not just the last thirty seconds of a close game that make a difference. There are all kinds of important plays in the last few minutes, and more often than not you will see Dirk play a large role.

As I wistfully think back to the glory years, I recall big shots late in games by the Nashes, Finleys, and Van Exels of the world. But hey, you dance with the one who brung you, and back then those other guys did a lot of bringing too.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

I can agree that Nellie was key early in Dirk's career. But, I honestly believe that Nellie wasted a year of Dirk's career last year. I also believe that alot of coaches would have helped interior development both offensively and defensively much more than Nellie.[/quote]

No question you have been proven correct about last year being a waste, both by a thoughtful analysis of Dirk's play pre- and post-last-season and also by Nellie's candid admission of such. The only remaining question would be just how damaging the waste was.

I don't doubt that Dirk could well be a much different style of player today if he had been led in a different direction. I'm sure that he's talented enough to become a dominant force inside, if that's what is asked of him. But the flip side of that is: would he be as lethal a shooter and ballhandler for his size, if he was spending all his time in the paint?

Meh. As Deion used to say: "both." Let's have both, shall we? If he stays in Dallas long enough, we'll certainly find out what someone other than Nellie can do with him.

It is interesting to think about the downside of Dirk's career (eight or nine years from now, let's hope). Maybe he'll bulk up some and become a true center.

[Murphy3]

It's definitely not all about the final shot. If a team chooses, they can make it almost impossible for one player to get a good look. However, that's where opportunities for other players arise. Double Dirk and someone will be open. Obviously, it's pretty much common sense. When you're dealing with a limited amount of time, there's no way to guarantee a good shot for one individual player. So, you try and put the ball in your best options hands and see what he can do from there. Hopefully he's an intelligent enough of a player to either get a good shot or draw enough of the defense to him to get it to someone for an open look.

But, it's not all about the final shot. Final last second shots to win or tie a game really don't come around very often. Like Chum was saying, it's about what you do down the stretch in close games. It's good to see that the Mavs are learning to ride Dirk. But, instead of focusing on the final shot and who takes it if not Dirk, it's probably a better discussion to ask who gets the touches down the stretch besides Dirk? Who makes the decisions? Who has the ball in their hands?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: chumdawg

I can agree that Nellie was key early in Dirk's career. But, I honestly believe that Nellie wasted a year of Dirk's career last year. I also believe that alot of coaches would have helped interior development both offensively and defensively much more than Nellie.

No question you have been proven correct about last year being a waste, both by a thoughtful analysis of Dirk's play pre- and post-last-season and also by Nellie's candid admission of such. The only remaining question would be just how damaging the waste was.

I don't doubt that Dirk could well be a much different style of player today if he had been led in a different direction. I'm sure that he's talented enough to become a dominant force inside, if that's what is asked of him. But the flip side of that is: would he be as lethal a shooter and ballhandler for his size, if he was spending all his time in the paint?

Meh. As Deion used to say: "both." Let's have both, shall we? If he stays in Dallas long enough, we'll certainly find out what someone other than Nellie can do with him.

It is interesting to think about the downside of Dirk's career (eight or nine years from now, let's hope). Maybe he'll bulk up some and become a true center.[/quote]
I'm definitely not asking or wanting Dirk to solely be an inside force. However, I do believe that he could have been even deadlier quicker with his back to the basket......I think he 'SHOULD' have been further along with that aspect, and I put that on Nellie. Two and half to three years ago, Dirk made it apparent that he was gaining efficiency down low. At the end of 02-03, Dirk was nothing short of brilliant when he got the ball with his back to the basket. No, it wasn't pretty, but it was damn efficient.

But obviously, we've discussed last year at length with no reason to really discuss it further....but how much did it set Dirk back? We'll never know. But it's unfortunate that we ever had to have this discussion in the first place.....I'll leave it at that.