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Old 12-19-2009, 12:50 AM   #1
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Originally Posted by Flacolaco View Post
How about they just play defense and don't allow freaking Houston to score 116 points...
they only scored 100 in regulation, that's not horrible
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:51 AM   #2
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Default does kidd deserve a flagrant foul? did brooks deserve a flagrant foul?

thoughts?
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:53 AM   #3
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Thoughts? There's too many threads on this early regular season game. I also would like to add that I like cheese.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:00 AM   #4
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it's not over yet :
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Updated: December 19, 2009, 12:57 AM ET
Cuban upset with officiating
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By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Archive

Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said after Friday's loss to Houston that the Mavericks will be filing an official protest with the league office because of at least three contentious calls during Dallas' 116-108 overtime defeat.

"We will definitely protest," Cuban said, "because we felt there were multiple misapplications of the rules."

The Mavericks contend the referees in charge -- Ken Mauer, Brian Forte and John Goble -- did not have the license to review a flagrant foul on Houston's Aaron Brooks in overtime that led to a technical foul being assessed to the Mavericks' Erick Dampier. Because it was Dampier's second technical, Dallas starting center was ejected with 1:01 to play in overtime and Houston leading by six points.

The Mavericks argued that the review, which resulted in an eight-minute delay, should not have taken place because Brooks was originally called for Flagrant Foul Penalty 1 as opposed to a Flagrant Foul Penalty 2.

Dallas likewise believes that the rules were misapplied in the final seconds of regulation when the officials declined to put more time back on the clock after reviewing a turnover by Brooks with the score tied at 100.

Dallas has 24 hours to formally file the protest, which costs $10,000.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4756296
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:03 AM   #5
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In the fourth, we had 10 minutes of free through shooting after each foul by them, I don't think we really used that advantage enough, could have tried to go to the hole more often?

Overall, just one of those games where they make a lot of shots from the outside and we can't get defensive rebounds.

Where was Barea late in the game, did he even score in the fourth after being hot early on?
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:07 AM   #6
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The day that the league responds to a Cuban protest is the day that pigs will fly.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:12 AM   #7
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Hypothetical:

Which would you prefer?

Having your teeth knocked out, or getting teeth embedded into your elbow?
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mary View Post
Hypothetical:

Which would you prefer?

Having your teeth knocked out, or getting teeth embedded into your elbow?
Were they able to get the teeth out of the elbow? If so, I'd go with that option. Neither sounds pleasant, but I don't like the thought of getting teeth knocked out at all.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:33 AM   #9
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Were they able to get the teeth out of the elbow? If so, I'd go with that option. Neither sounds pleasant, but I don't like the thought of getting teeth knocked out at all.
Supposedly it took half-an-hour to get the wound cleaned of toothy debris.

Getting your teeth knocked out is probably more painful, but basketball wise it may be the better option.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:14 AM   #10
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I'm not sure Andersen deserved to get the tech in the Kidd incident. I couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle, but it was clearly initiated by Kidd. I think a double-tech is usually a cop out.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:38 AM   #11
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I think Landry prefer losing to the Mavs than losing his teeth.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:42 AM   #12
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refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:50 AM   #13
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refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game
When a player is DQ'd (or can't return to the game) and is supposed to shoot FT's, your opponent gets to pick the free throw shooter.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:54 AM   #14
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When a player is DQ'd (or can't return to the game) and is supposed to shoot FT's, your opponent gets to pick the free throw shooter.
thanks for the clarification. didn't know it applied to DQ's too. makes sense so that a player can't feign injury to allow a better shooter to enter. but to be thrown out it seems as if you'd have to do something which would incur a technical thus penalizing your team already.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:50 AM   #15
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refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game
The opposing coach chooses the player to shoot ft's in that situation, thus Hump was chosen by Adelman.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:51 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mac222b View Post
refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game
Umm.. the Rockets got to choose who shot the FTs, not Carlisle.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:49 AM   #17
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Damps 2nd T was a joke, the elbow never came over his shoulder, which is typically the rule for that kind of action.

And kidds T was not his fault. Anderson comes down to set the down screen and Kidd braces. Anderson hits him and flys back like he's been shot. He comes back at kidd after the whistle, Kidd steps up, nothing happens, then Tim Thomas comes in a pushes everyone back, causing it to look like a fight. If they want to call a t on tim, fine, but Kidd/Anderson thing wasn't out of hand until Tim jumps in.

Why does Terry have terrible bball IQ, Bobby carpenter like time waste, and the smallest hands in the NBA. I'm shocked that Roddy or hump couldn't give us some burn, hou went on multiple runs. Crappy game.
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:01 AM   #18
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Damps 2nd T was a joke, the elbow never came over his shoulder, which is typically the rule for that kind of action.

And kidds T was not his fault. Anderson comes down to set the down screen and Kidd braces. Anderson hits him and flys back like he's been shot. He comes back at kidd after the whistle, Kidd steps up, nothing happens, then Tim Thomas comes in a pushes everyone back, causing it to look like a fight. If they want to call a t on tim, fine, but Kidd/Anderson thing wasn't out of hand until Tim jumps in.

Why does Terry have terrible bball IQ, Bobby carpenter like time waste, and the smallest hands in the NBA. I'm shocked that Roddy or hump couldn't give us some burn, hou went on multiple runs. Crappy game.
Good God, Kidd violently ran into Anderson with clear inent... Anderson was doing nothing but setting a screen.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:52 AM   #19
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Threesies.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:56 AM   #20
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by mary View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.
Yeah, I don't see how to spin that one positively for Kidd.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:24 AM   #22
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Yeah, I don't see how to spin that one positively for Kidd.
Looks like a retaliation move of sorts. There probably was something before that. But anyway, for a veteran like Kidd that is not excusable.
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mary View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.
they both definitely went after each other after the foul call, as well. TT and Scola both reacted pretty quickly. They were blocking the view, though.

What these videos prove beyond a doubt is that the Rockets announcers suck. "No Rockets players are off the bench. Kris Humphries is off the bench. . . "
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mary View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.
Should have been a flagrant-1 plus a tech on Anderson for the stuff he did on the end. Just like the Dampier-Brooks one was eventually incorrectly called.

I can't say I know why Kidd did that, though. There was a referee standing RIGHT BEHIND HIM. Obviously, Kidd isn't one to just go take people out. Anderson must have done something to him earlier in the game, or said something that Kidd couldn't take.

I suppose that if the refs heard what Anderson said to Kidd that got him pissed (assuming that was the reason), maybe they let Kidd off light? I wouldn't think so...letting your emotions get out of control due to somebody else's words isn't exactly encouraged by the league. Really confusing game, and especially that sequence of events.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:29 PM   #25
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Should have been a flagrant-1 plus a tech on Anderson for the stuff he did on the end. Just like the Dampier-Brooks one was eventually incorrectly called.

I can't say I know why Kidd did that, though. There was a referee standing RIGHT BEHIND HIM. Obviously, Kidd isn't one to just go take people out. Anderson must have done something to him earlier in the game, or said something that Kidd couldn't take.

I suppose that if the refs heard what Anderson said to Kidd that got him pissed (assuming that was the reason), maybe they let Kidd off light? I wouldn't think so...letting your emotions get out of control due to somebody else's words isn't exactly encouraged by the league. Really confusing game, and especially that sequence of events.
I would have to re-watch the game. I expect that jkiddo had gotten some extra curricular activities on some picks that we set by anderson earlier. So when he got a chance to set a pick of his own, he took it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:52 PM   #26
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Should have been a flagrant-1 plus a tech on Anderson for the stuff he did on the end. Just like the Dampier-Brooks one was eventually incorrectly called.

I can't say I know why Kidd did that, though. There was a referee standing RIGHT BEHIND HIM. Obviously, Kidd isn't one to just go take people out. Anderson must have done something to him earlier in the game, or said something that Kidd couldn't take.

I suppose that if the refs heard what Anderson said to Kidd that got him pissed (assuming that was the reason), maybe they let Kidd off light? I wouldn't think so...letting your emotions get out of control due to somebody else's words isn't exactly encouraged by the league. Really confusing game, and especially that sequence of events.
Kidd's reputation as a veteran defensive player definitely helped him. It is hard to guess what happened just by looking at that clip. Perhaps Kidd was blindsighted and ran into Anderson? It sure didn't look that way. Get this, though: this is his 16th season and he has committed just 1 (yes, one) flagrant in his whole career so he's not someone who plays dirty or takes people out. I think there's a more reasonable explanation as to why Kidd went after Anderson following the collision. Anderson must have said something inflammatory and things got out of hand. The whole incident was bizarre.

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Old 12-19-2009, 02:11 AM   #27
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Ouch.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:23 AM   #28
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What's f'ed up is that in college basketball, when a player is injured before FT's, not only does his own team (rather than the other team) get to pick who shoots the FT's, but the guy can still come back later in the game.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:44 AM   #29
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I really like what Jet did for us in past years, but he clearly is not the same player he use to be, I know that people claim Barea to be a liability on defense, but from watching the game Lowrey and Brooks got most of their points when Jet was guarding them. Every time Barea was in the game, we were turning the corner. I really feel that Barea is the scoring threat now and not Jet, and yet Jet gets more minutes. I say we trade Jet for a halfway decent Center, I really would love Chris Kamen. Let Beaubois take Jets minutes and continue with Josh off the bench with Barea at SG. I know Barea is not a SG, but in all honesty neither is Jet or Roddy. Barea's quickness at SG is what helps create his offense. I agree with Derrick Harper, it was a mistake to not play Barea in the 4th and overtime periods. Jet Could not hit a shot if his life depended on it. This is two nights running.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:55 AM   #30
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I can't remember the last time I saw a game this badly reffed. Just... unbelievable. What's really unbelievable is that even after they'd watch replays (sometimes even replays which they weren't supposed to use)... which very clearly showed the right call... they still made the wrong one.

The flagrant on Damp was ridiculous. He barely moved his arm and half the reason he moved it at all was because Brook was pulling it towards him as he fell. Damp clearly didn't even know what was going on or who was behind him or where they were... he couldn't since he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

Jet's clear path foul was just... beyond stupid. How can he commit a clear path foul when he is CLEARLY the first person over the half-court line? It wasn't even close. Worse he was between the player and the basket the whole time. Even if the Ref didn't see who crossed the line first you could see that he was in front of the guy every second. Makes no sense.

The technical on Kidd I still don't get. The replay showed him doing nothing. He just stood there, he didn't even say anything after the collision. Unless the technical was for the collision? But it seemed like it was called afterward. Tim Thomas rushed in and made it look like something but it wasn't.

The Marion traveling call... I'm still not sure. Didn't look like a travel to me but at least you could sort of see how a ref might screw that up. But combined with all the other crap that went down tonight, just awful.

I'm not normally one to complain about refs, but the loss tonight was not the team's fault. The officiating crew was determined to make sure the Mavs loss... whether because they were incompetent or malicious I don't know.

The worst thing about all of these calls is that they weren't split second decisions which were wrong, or stuff made on the fly or things the refs just didn't see right. In almost every case, the refs stopped the game, sat there in a huddle and then methodically decided to misapply the rules after watching replays which showed them the opposite of what they decided. I can't remember ever seeing anything quite like it before.

And what was with that last huddle of theirs, where the Refs had themselves surrounded by security to... what... protect themselves from the players? Something seriously weird was going on tonight.

Last edited by cinemablend; 12-19-2009 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:20 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemablend View Post
I can't remember the last time I saw a game this badly reffed. Just... unbelievable. What's really unbelievable is that even after they'd watch replays (sometimes even replays which they weren't supposed to use)... which very clearly showed the right call... they still made the wrong one.

The flagrant on Damp was ridiculous. He barely moved his arm and half the reason he moved it at all was because Brook was pulling it towards him as he fell. Damp clearly didn't even know what was going on or who was behind him or where they were... he couldn't since he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

Jet's clear path foul was just... beyond stupid. How can he commit a clear path foul when he is CLEARLY the first person over the half-court line? It wasn't even close. Worse he was between the player and the basket the whole time. Even if the Ref didn't see who crossed the line first you could see that he was in front of the guy every second. Makes no sense.

The technical on Kidd I still don't get. The replay showed him doing nothing. He just stood there, he didn't even say anything after the collision. Unless the technical was for the collision? But it seemed like it was called afterward. Tim Thomas rushed in and made it look like something but it wasn't.

The Marion traveling call... I'm still not sure. Didn't look like a travel to me but at least you could sort of see how a ref might screw that up. But combined with all the other crap that went down tonight, just awful.

I'm not normally one to complain about refs, but the loss tonight was not the team's fault. The officiating crew was determined to make sure the Mavs loss... whether because they were incompetent or malicious I don't know.

The worst thing about all of these calls is that they weren't split second decisions which were wrong, or stuff made on the fly or things the refs just didn't see right. In almost every case, the refs stopped the game, sat there in a huddle and then methodically decided to misapply the rules after watching replays which showed them the opposite of what they decided. I can't remember ever seeing anything quite like it before.

And what was with that last huddle of theirs, where the Refs had themselves surrounded by security to... what... protect themselves from the players? Something seriously weird was going on tonight.
Carlisle made some bad personnel decisions, like Jet over Barea. He did it for defensive purposes! If that was Carlisles excuse then how come Brooks and Lowrey kept scoring on the jet at will? Great Idea Rick, sit our most effective scorer on the bench, I thought you would have learned to keep Barea in the game, instead of repeating what happened two games ago. I wish we would trade jet, so we alleviate any itch rick has to bench jj when he is going for a career night. The sooner we trade jet the better we shall be. He cannot defend, and he certainly cannot shoot anymore. He is the new Jerry Stackhouse of this organization. It is time to get rid of this chump for a decent post player and give Roddy some minutes, but the majority going to Barea. I cannot see why this guy cant put up 30 by the end of the season if given extended play.
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:22 AM   #32
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[QUOTE=dmack24;1051557]Carlisle made some bad personnel decisions that cost us the game, like Jet over Barea in the 4th and OT. He did it for defensive purposes! If that was Carlisles excuse then how come Brooks and Lowrey kept scoring on the jet at will? Great Idea Rick, sit our most effective scorer on the bench, I thought you would have learned to keep Barea in the game, instead of repeating what happened two games ago. I wish we would trade jet, so we alleviate any itch rick has to bench jj when he is going for a career night. The sooner we trade jet the better we shall be. He cannot defend, and he certainly cannot shoot anymore. He is the new Jerry Stackhouse of this organization. It is time to get rid of this chump for a decent post player and give Roddy some minutes, but the majority going to Barea. I cannot see why this guy cant put up 30 by the end of the season if given extended play.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:30 PM   #33
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[quote=dmack24;1051558]
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Originally Posted by dmack24 View Post
I thought you would have learned to keep Barea in the game, instead of repeating what happened two games ago. I wish we would trade jet, so we alleviate any itch rick has to bench jj when he is going for a career night. The sooner we trade jet the better we shall be. He cannot defend, and he certainly cannot shoot anymore. He is the new Jerry Stackhouse of this organization. It is time to get rid of this chump for a decent post player and give Roddy some minutes, but the majority going to Barea. I cannot see why this guy cant put up 30 by the end of the season if given extended play.
Sometimes I feel like this web site has been taken over by 12 year olds, or at least people with the patience of one.

Jet has been a streaky jump shooter his entire career, and he's had slumps before. For his entire career, he has shot his way out of them. There is no reason to think he won't again, and so far there is no reason to believe JJB will ever be a better player than Jet. He would be very lucky to retire with the numbers Terry has already put up. Last year Jet averages 19 and wins 6th man of the year. Now, you call him a chump and want to toss him on the scrap heap?

Have you ever heard the phrase "Dirk Terry 2 man game?" For most teams, stopping Jet is job 2 after stopping Dirk. In the playoffs last year, Denver just concentrated on Terry. They stopped him and shut down the Mavs. Now if you think JJB would be as big a threat, you gotta share what you been smoking.

A big reason JJB is effective is that defenses usually ignore him. That's why he's always open for the 3, and has never been double teamed. If they focus on stopping him like they do Terry, he'd be lucky to score 10 a night. JJB has become very good at what his is, which is an undersized backup point guard who can get to the glass and hit the 3. What he is not is AI, or CP3, or even Jet. He's a great guy to score when teams are focused on Dirk, Josh and Jet first. A nice side dish, but a long way from a featured entree.
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:32 AM   #34
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There were alot of bad ref calls in this game but the Kidd T wasnt one of them. He clearly pulled a derek fisher there...
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:58 AM   #35
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cant say i care about this loss.
I just hope dirk is okay again soon and this is one to forget.... weird game
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:00 AM   #36
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kidd's T ok, but what the hell did rick to earn his first one..
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:18 AM   #37
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I had to watch this game in Houston last night. The announcers were unbearable. And I'm not sure what replay they showed for the Marion travel on the Mavs broadcast, but he clearly lifted his pivot foot to start the drive. Refs have been pretty consistent about calling that one this season. Unlike here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Z1wAwQtM
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:20 AM   #38
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Yea...that was a good call on marion, no one should be bitching about that one. The one that continues to stagger me is the ejection of dampier. I looked close on that one and couldn't see anything. In fact most of the fouls called on dampier all game were stunning...as in I watched the replay closely and saw nothing.
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #39
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Is Damp's tech up on youtube somewhere?
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:29 AM   #40
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I haven't found one. This is kind of interesting however..
http://dpagesports.blogspot.com/2009...sure-then.html
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The Unbelievable Dampier Ejection

For some reason Followill, Ortegal, and the rest of the crew on 21 didn't notice what I'm sure many of you at home noticed on the flagrant foul assessed to Aaron Brooks. While Bob Ortegal clamored on about Brooks not going for the ball and grabbing Dampier's shoulders, the replay on the monitor validated Ortegal's call except for one very important part. Brooks did grab Dampier's shoulders and did not go for the ball, but in grabbing his shoulders he also vaulted himself and his knee between Dampier's legs. Now as any man (or woman for that matter) knows, if someone knees you in the groin area, your going to respond with some hostility. That is what Damp did, throwing a shoulder into Brooks and yelling some expletives in the officials' direction. Then, for some reason, he was ejected from the game for reacting harshly to getting kneed in the balls. Nowitzki has to remove teeth from his elbow and Dampier gets ejected for getting kicked in the nuts, a strange night indeed.
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