Official Rangers off season thread - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 11-29-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Equally interesting is that several "experts" didn't vote for Hamilton at all.

Yeah, Borbon and Hamilton seem to have the widest range of rankings. They're ranked in the top five by several (Borbon is even #2 with Neyer) and then not ranked at all with several.

Very interesting.

The video scouts ranking is the one I would most want explained. Their work strikes me as the most in depth and valuable.

Male30Dan · 12-01-2010, 08:32 AM

From T.R. Sullivan's mailbag:

Feliz was Rookie of the Year and has two solid pitches, including an electric fastball. He is a perfect fit as a closer, and his career could last much longer with fewer innings. Why would people think that Feliz should be in the rotation?
-- Matt H. McKinney, Texas

There are many ways to find a front-line closer, but No. 1 starters are much harder to come by. When you have a 22-year-old pitching prodigy with an "electric" fastball and two decent-to-above-average secondary pitches, he has No. 1 starter written all over him. If the Rangers knew they were guaranteed of getting 220 innings out of Feliz as a starter next year, they would make the switch immediately and take their chances of finding a capable closer, but when it comes to pitching, nothing is guaranteed.

Male30Dan · 12-01-2010, 10:49 AM

Rumors stirring that we are in the midst of making Lee a competitive 5-year offer...

Mav Addict · 12-01-2010, 11:34 AM

Is it April yet?

mkat · 12-01-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

From T.R. Sullivan's mailbag:

Feliz was Rookie of the Year and has two solid pitches, including an electric fastball. He is a perfect fit as a closer, and his career could last much longer with fewer innings. Why would people think that Feliz should be in the rotation?
-- Matt H. McKinney, Texas

There are many ways to find a front-line closer, but No. 1 starters are much harder to come by. When you have a 22-year-old pitching prodigy with an "electric" fastball and two decent-to-above-average secondary pitches, he has No. 1 starter written all over him. If the Rangers knew they were guaranteed of getting 220 innings out of Feliz as a starter next year, they would make the switch immediately and take their chances of finding a capable closer, but when it comes to pitching, nothing is guaranteed.

i'm pretty sure his secondary pitches need a lot of work before he's a guaranteed number 1 starter. i hope he gets a shot to start though.

Male30Dan · 12-01-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

i'm pretty sure his secondary pitches need a lot of work before he's a guaranteed number 1 starter. i hope he gets a shot to start though.

You and me both...

mavspwnage · 12-01-2010, 06:19 PM

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/ar...ff-lee-to.html

Rangers second baseman Ian Kinsler said that Cliff Lee told him via text message that the Rangers were again at his Arkansas home.

"Basically, I said, 'What's going on in Arkansas?' He said, 'the Rangers are down here again,'" Kinsler said on KESN-FM. "I was like, 'Well, just sign whatever they give you.' He said, 'Let's see what happens. We have to wait it out.'

"I said, 'Remember, I like being your teammate.' And he said, 'I do, too, but we have to wait it out.' I said, 'Just sign it.' And then he sent me a picture of a deer (that one of Lee's friends bagged)."

When Kinsler was asked if other Rangers teammates were recruiting Lee, he replied: "Not too much."

Rangers CEO Chuck Greenberg, president Nolan Ryan and general manager Jon Daniels flew to Little Rock and met with Lee on Nov. 15.

"We got the answers we wanted, and we reconfirmed our interest in bringing him back," Ryan said after the Nov. 15 gathering. "We left feeling good about the meeting, and I do think Cliff is very interested in playing here again."

Following those face-to-face talks Ryan said he wanted to meet with Lee again, preferably before the winter meetings.

Those meetings take place in Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Dec. 6-10.

Male30Dan · 12-02-2010, 07:51 PM

Man, that sucks... I really was hoping Dunn would make his way on the Rangers' roster somehow. He is now off to the White Sox. I wonder if they end up with Dunn and Konerko or if Konerko ends up a target for Texas.

Dunn seemed so perfect as a much younger version of Vlad at DH (which he will definitely play if Konerko comes back) or even a power hitting 1B option with poor range (which in all honesty is all Konerko is at this point).

Five-ofan · 12-03-2010, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Man, that sucks... I really was hoping Dunn would make his way on the Rangers' roster somehow. He is now off to the White Sox. I wonder if they end up with Dunn and Konerko or if Konerko ends up a target for Texas.

Dunn seemed so perfect as a much younger version of Vlad at DH (which he will definitely play if Konerko comes back) or even a power hitting 1B option with poor range (which in all honesty is all Konerko is at this point).

Dunn isnt good enough defensively to play first in the majors. He is a dh and a dh only(konerko is pretty darn close to that at this point) As far as hitters, Im not sure there are two hitters whose skillsets are more different than dunn and vlad at this point.

Murphy3 · 12-03-2010, 09:54 AM

I would have loved to have had Dunn.. He's an OBP machine.

Male30Dan · 12-03-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Dunn isnt good enough defensively to play first in the majors. He is a dh and a dh only(konerko is pretty darn close to that at this point) As far as hitters, Im not sure there are two hitters whose skillsets are more different than dunn and vlad at this point.

Dude, I didn't mean that his skillset matched, I just meant a younger power hitting DH... I understand he takes a lot of walks, has a much higher OBP, and is a lefty. I could have worded it different to avoid your assumption but that is not at all what I meant.

As far as him (or Konerko) not being a good defensive option at 1B, yeah, I know - said as much. But some teams were willing to give him that spot to get him to sign with their team (any NL team that signed him likely would have - hell he is worse defensively in the outfield).

I personally would have taken his lack of range at 1B to get the immense improvement offensively. I would have especially been OK with it if someone like Beltre was also brought in to play 3B with Young going to DH. At that point, despite the downgrade defensively at 1B, you have still improved your overall infield defense due to the huge jump from Young to Beltre at 3B. Dunn can catch balls fine and it is mainly just his range that is horrible.

Sure, I would rather have him as my DH, but it would likewise be nice to keep Vlad's bat in the lineup instead of Moreland's (or Young's if a Beltre WAS brought in).

Doesn't matter anyway - dude is a White Sox at this point.

Male30Dan · 12-03-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Dude, I didn't mean that his skillset matched, I just meant a younger power hitting DH... I understand he takes a lot of walks, has a much higher OBP, and is a lefty. I could have worded it different to avoid your assumption but that is not at all what I meant.

As far as him (or Konerko) not being a good defensive option at 1B, yeah, I know - said as much. But some teams were willing to give him that spot to get him to sign with their team (any NL team that signed him likely would have - hell he is worse defensively in the outfield).

I personally would have taken his lack of range at 1B to get the immense improvement offensively. I would have especially been OK with it if someone like Beltre was also brought in to play 3B with Young going to DH. At that point, despite the downgrade defensively at 1B, you have still improved your overall infield defense due to the huge jump from Young to Beltre at 3B. Dunn can catch balls fine and it is mainly just his range that is horrible.

Sure, I would rather have him as my DH, but it would likewise be nice to keep Vlad's bat in the lineup instead of Moreland's (or Young's if a Beltre WAS brought in).

Doesn't matter anyway - dude is a White Sox at this point.

Link...

Male30Dan · 12-04-2010, 04:40 PM

Note the comment about Hamilton's defense in Center:

Now look at how the stat was formed, and why comments like this are stupid as hell without a little research and some common sense:

Five-ofan · 12-04-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Note the comment about Hamilton's defense in Center:

Now look at how the stat was formed, and why comments like this are stupid as hell without a little research and some common sense:

I dont see a giant issue with either the stat or your point that it needs to be taken in context. What I would say from looking at those numbers and watching hamilton play, is that if he plays center for 30 or so games a year, he is a plus in center. However if you leave him out there for the majority of the year, the wear and tear that everyone is so concerned about with him begins to negatively affect his defense in a way that is visible both to the naked eye and more advanced defensive metrics.

BTW on the Vlad/Dunn thing, I knew that you knew they werent actually similar hitters. No matter how much we disagree on things, I know you follow baseball. I was simply pointing that out for anyone else who might be reading and did a poor job of clarifying.

Ive been thinking about the potential for a Greinke trade and Ive got a different idea. Id offer Elvis Andrus straight up for him(I think theyd have a hard time turning that down) and then go after either Alexei Ramirez, Stephen Drew or Marco Scutaro(whom the sox are supposed to be dealing). I wouldnt do the greinke trade without having the trade for another SS done first though.

Murphy3 · 12-04-2010, 08:46 PM

Defensive metrics are so incredibly flawed..

Male30Dan · 12-05-2010, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I dont see a giant issue with either the stat or your point that it needs to be taken in context. What I would say from looking at those numbers and watching hamilton play, is that if he plays center for 30 or so games a year, he is a plus in center. However if you leave him out there for the majority of the year, the wear and tear that everyone is so concerned about with him begins to negatively affect his defense in a way that is visible both to the naked eye and more advanced defensive metrics.

BTW on the Vlad/Dunn thing, I knew that you knew they werent actually similar hitters. No matter how much we disagree on things, I know you follow baseball. I was simply pointing that out for anyone else who might be reading and did a poor job of clarifying.

Ive been thinking about the potential for a Greinke trade and Ive got a different idea. Id offer Elvis Andrus straight up for him(I think theyd have a hard time turning that down) and then go after either Alexei Ramirez, Stephen Drew or Marco Scutaro(whom the sox are supposed to be dealing). I wouldnt do the greinke trade without having the trade for another SS done first though.

The only way his defense would be negatively affected is if an injury forced him out of the game or if an injury prevented him from being him. The rib injury didn't keep him from diving and jumping though as instinct took over those final few regular season games and playoffs.

Regarding the Greinke trade, I think you would gut the clubhouse chemistry by losing Elvis (it also means you are looking for a new leadoff hitter). I can't argue about defense, because someone like Ramirez is right there with Andrus. With that said, I would likewise doubt that is even close to enough for KC considering what they have been asking for.

Would I do it if chemistry wasn't crushed and another SS was brought in with similar defensive abilities considering our minor league talent at SS? Yes, as Grienke is an ace or a notch just below an ace and those guys don't grow on trees. With that said, I know chemistry would be affected, getting that type of SS would be difficult, and KC wouldn't bite, even with Elvis' stock as high as it is after his great playoff performance.

Five-ofan · 12-05-2010, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

The only way his defense would be negatively affected is if an injury forced him out of the game or if an injury prevented him from being him. The rib injury didn't keep him from diving and jumping though as instinct took over those final few regular season games and playoffs.

Regarding the Greinke trade, I think you would gut the clubhouse chemistry by losing Elvis (it also means you are looking for a new leadoff hitter). I can't argue about defense, because someone like Ramirez is right there with Andrus. With that said, I would likewise doubt that is even close to enough for KC considering what they have been asking for.

Would I do it if chemistry wasn't crushed and another SS was brought in with similar defensive abilities considering our minor league talent at SS? Yes, as Grienke is an ace or a notch just below an ace and those guys don't grow on trees. With that said, I know chemistry would be affected, getting that type of SS would be difficult, and KC wouldn't bite, even with Elvis' stock as high as it is after his great playoff performance.

An injury wouldnt effect him but wear and tear on his knees slows him down(as it did even last year). Josh hamilton has never been able to be an effective cfer for a full season and i see no reason to try to make him into one. Hes one of the best players in baseball as a great defensive cofer with an amazing stick.

As for elvis he has nearly no value as an offensive player if hes not hitting 330(which he did in the playoffs but i dont believe he can sustain over a season). There are several people in our own lineup id prefer batting leadoff instead of him

Male30Dan · 12-05-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

An injury wouldnt effect him but wear and tear on his knees slows him down(as it did even last year). Josh hamilton has never been able to be an effective cfer for a full season and i see no reason to try to make him into one. Hes one of the best players in baseball as a great defensive cofer with an amazing stick.

As for elvis he has nearly no value as an offensive player if hes not hitting 330(which he did in the playoffs but i dont believe he can sustain over a season). There are several people in our own lineup id prefer batting leadoff instead of him

I am just not even going there on the Josh as CF thing. Been there done that. Read up if you want my stance.

Regarding Elvis, I have a great deal of faith that he will end up being a positive offensively and defensively. If he can hit .300 and improve his OBP while getting more effective on the base paths you have a helluva solid leadoff hitter. Sure, he struggled a good bit of 2010, but he stepped it up when it mattered most and I think he can build off that in 2011.

If you believe he is as good as he will ever be offensively (or that his plateau is only slightly higher than where he is now) I guess we will just agree to disagree. He has already said that he wants to add power to his game and if he just becomes a guy that hits doubles somewhat regularly I would be fine with the lack of HR production.

Male30Dan · 12-06-2010, 09:22 AM

http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/11608512668897280

Then you give that muthafucka a 6th year. For 3 critical reasons you do that. One to show the Yankees that they can't have everything they want. Two to show other free agents that this is the place to be. Three to have a damn good pitching staff. Then you go after Grienke as well instead of going after Crawford and hopefully add 1 bat (or resign Vlad). That is not pie in the sky stuff - if we sign Lee that all could happen.

sike · 12-06-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Then you go after Grienke as well instead of going after Crawford and hopefully add 1 bat (or resign Vlad). That is not pie in the sky stuff - if we sign Lee that all could happen.

Lee and Grienke? Does anyone think that is an actual possibility?

Lee, Grienke, CJ, Lewis! Would there be a better 4 in the majors?

Male30Dan · 12-06-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Lee and Grienke? Does anyone think that is an actual possibility?

If we are truly moving towards a 90-95m payroll as has been discussed, absolutely it is possible. It just depends on whether or not the FO wants to part with Scheppers or Perez to START the negotiations.

Then you add in someone like Holland AND someone like Beltre and you have a pretty good package, but it will likely require someone like Davis as well. It will be a 3+ for 1 deal, depending on the talent of the prospects leaving.

Adding Lee at roughly 23m per and Greinke for 13.5m per raises you up 36.5m. Considering we had a payroll last year of roughly 55m, it can definitely be done. Now, there are internal raises to be figured in and other contracts that have been offered up as well (e.g. Torrealba), but of course some contracts are coming off the books (e.g. Molina).

Bottom line, I think we can fit Lee, Greinke, and Vlad definitely - but not a more expensive bat than his (like my dream scenario of Beltre at 3rd with Young playing DH or 1st).

All I know is that if we can lock up Lee, we would be foolish not to consider also going after Greinke considering the wealth of talent we could find ourselves having at SP. It would also give us an escape valve if CJ ends up moving on to the west coast when he hits FA.

IF we get Lee, get Greinke too. We have the prospects. It fits in our proposed salary structure. Do it.

Male30Dan · 12-06-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Lee, Grienke, CJ, Lewis! Would there be a better 4 in the majors?

Philly has a pretty good 4 and Oakland has a helluva 3, but yeah, we would be pretty damn good. When you factor in that Feliz COULD be our 5th starter (or eventually whoever isn't traded out of Perez/Scheppers)........ Ha - nice position to be in.

mkat · 12-06-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Lee and Grienke? Does anyone think that is an actual possibility?

Lee, Grienke, CJ, Lewis! Would there be a better 4 in the majors?

San Francisco has a pretty good 4 or 5.

I'd LOVE to see that rotation, though. I love Greinke.

However, he does kinda scare me with his mentality. I could see him choking in the playoffs.

Five-ofan · 12-06-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I am just not even going there on the Josh as CF thing. Been there done that. Read up if you want my stance.

Regarding Elvis, I have a great deal of faith that he will end up being a positive offensively and defensively. If he can hit .300 and improve his OBP while getting more effective on the base paths you have a helluva solid leadoff hitter. Sure, he struggled a good bit of 2010, but he stepped it up when it mattered most and I think he can build off that in 2011.

If you believe he is as good as he will ever be offensively (or that his plateau is only slightly higher than where he is now) I guess we will just agree to disagree. He has already said that he wants to add power to his game and if he just becomes a guy that hits doubles somewhat regularly I would be fine with the lack of HR production.

I dont think hes as good as he will ever be offensively, i was simply stating what he is now, not what I think he will be in his prime. In his prime i think hell be something like a 310/400/425 hitter with gold glove(deserved, not jeter gold glove) ability at SS. Clearly I think a ton of him. I would not add ANYTHING to him to get greinke. Im simply saying that if a SS whos already had ML success, is 21 years old and is still under control for 4 years isnt enough to get greinke then we are wasting our time going after him. I think this teams best window is the next 3-4 years and I think greinke helps more in the next two than elvis does in the last 2. Especially if we resign lee. The biggest problem with that trade idea is that it makes this team a hell of alot more expensive though because you have to replace elvis with a comparable player and there just arent many(any) ss as good as him that make 400k a year. It was just an idea for a trade, not something I will be heartbroken if we dont do.

Five-ofan · 12-06-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/11608512668897280

Then you give that muthafucka a 6th year. For 3 critical reasons you do that. One to show the Yankees that they can't have everything they want. Two to show other free agents that this is the place to be. Three to have a damn good pitching staff. Then you go after Grienke as well instead of going after Crawford and hopefully add 1 bat (or resign Vlad). That is not pie in the sky stuff - if we sign Lee that all could happen.

Absolutely. If i had the option to rep you i would.

Crawford doesnt make much sense to me.

sike · 12-06-2010, 07:07 PM

Lee/Greinke MUST be the dream scenario that the FO should be pursuing.

That would just be astounding.

Male30Dan · 12-06-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Lee/Greinke MUST be the dream scenario that the FO should be pursuing.

That would just be astounding.

Yes, yes it would.

To be honest, if we get Lee, I would put us as the favorite to get Greinke. If we fail to get Lee, I would put us as the favorite to get Greinke. If we fail to get both that would be horrible, but at least we could throw offense at this thing and that would potentially guarantee a Feliz opportunity with two holes in the starting rotation.

A lot is riding on Lee's decision this week. We are either a favorite right off the bat or playing catchup to LA's likely spending spree that is sure to be coming soon (possibly 2 of 3, if not 3 of 3 of Beltre, Soriano, and Crawford).

sike · 12-06-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

If we fail to get Lee, I would put us as the favorite to get Greinke. If we fail to get both that would be horrible

I have faith in JD not to let both get away...not without a serious fight anyway.

mavspwnage · 12-06-2010, 10:50 PM

It'd be nice to be able to get Greinke without having to give up either Perez or Scheppers. But I wouldn't count on that being possible.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

It'd be nice to be able to get Greinke without having to give up either Perez or Scheppers. But I wouldn't count on that being possible.

No, it could happen, but you better be willing to part with Feliz.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 12:56 AM

Play hard ball Texas, but don't burn a bridge here... Be realistic with this - he is a helluva pitcher and that can be easily confirmed by comparing his stats to Lee's over the past several years. It will take several good prospects to land the guy. Either offer a fair package that doesn't include us raped in the process or stop trying.

Do not burn this bridge.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 03:29 AM

Just in case this hasn't been seen...

Cough, cough... Clears throat... Cough, cough!

Five-ofan · 12-07-2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Just in case this hasn't been seen...

Cough, cough... Clears throat... Cough, cough!

Ummm you do know you arent the only one who wants beltre right?

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Ummm you do know you arent the only one who wants beltre right?

Exactly 0 other people outside of myself qualify...when you consider the point of that link was to show BOTH the interest in Beltre and the relocation of Young from 3B to 1B.

jthig32 · 12-07-2010, 10:15 AM

Rumblings that Washington is going to make a huge offer for Lee, probably 7 years.

I can't imagine him taking it, really. But I suppose he might. And if he does, that puts Dan's scenario of us getting screwed on draft picks squarely into play. Werth was ranked higher than Lee, and Washington can't lose their first round pick because it's top 15 protected.

So we'd get Washington's third rounder (and a supplemental first rounder) for losing Lee to Washington. Uggg.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 10:57 AM

Yeah, I heard as much Thiggy... That would truly suck, but I just can't see him choosing Washington. I just can't. He wants to win a WS and I think he has zero chance of doing that in the immediate future with that team. He will sign with NY or Texas, unless Boston or LA comes out of nowhere to get involved.

If he does sign with Washington (or anyone outside of Texas), I think we find our farm system a bit depleted, because I doubt we allow Greinke to go anywhere else despite KC having all of the leverage. We are also talking with Webb (had a conversation with his agent last night per MLBTradeRumors.com) so something could come from that.

Not sure how I feel about him. It has been ages since he was the Webb his name was made off of, but damn, if he could become that again he would be a tremendous pickup for half or less of what it will take to get Lee. Major questions there though.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2010, 06:00 PM

My mouth just dropped...

If we get any team to take this dude's full contract off of our hands (for a bag of beans mind you) and get Beltre as his replacement for just over what we are currently paying Young..........oh dear Lord!!!

This has ZERO chance of happening because I want it so bad, but still... Just passing it on.

jthig32 · 12-07-2010, 11:46 PM

This Michael Young thing actually seems to have some legs. Still seems like a long shot, but multiple credible sources on twitter are reporting one team (Rockies) and talking about the money that would have to be worked out.

Moving Young and signing Beltre would be incredible. Would be a ton of money to commit to 3B, assuming you're subsiding a big chunk of MY's salary, but what an upgrade it would be.

sike · 12-08-2010, 12:11 AM

Wow...no loyalty for Young from the Ranger faithful?

A little sad.

Don't get me wrong, I'd move him in a heartbeat...but I'm merely a second or third tier fan.

mavspwnage · 12-08-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Wow...no loyalty for Young from the Ranger faithful?

A little sad.

Don't get me wrong, I'd move him in a heartbeat...but I'm merely a second or third tier fan.

I'm loyal. Noooooo Young, please don't gooooo!