Marquis traded for Austin Croshere

[nashtymavsfan13]

Croshere is 5 months older than Killer.

Right now Croshere is 31, and Killer is 30 but turns 31 in October.

[birdsanctuary]

Damn, that sucks...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by V2M

Nice summary of this trade by David Lord.

==============================================

Lost 'Quis
Details On Daniels-Croshere Swap

By David Lord – DallasBasketball.com
News leaked from Mavs headquarters Tuesday that a deal is in place to trade Marquis Daniels to Indiana for Austin Croshere. Let's take a look at the deal and its ramifications.

Is the deal a simple one-for-one?
Although league rules mandate that no official pronouncement can be made by the team until July 12, apparently the deal has been agreed to and is as simple as it sounds.

I thought Croshere's salary was too big to absorb by trading only Daniels. Is there more to the deal?
Croshere's salary for 2006/07 had been listed by various sources as exceeding $9M, but those were apparently erroneous. His salary will actually be $7.3M, which is close enough to that of Daniels ($5.88M) to fit the NBA's trade requirements.

Are there limits on re-trading Croshere? How about a 3-way deal?
The trade can't be consummated until July 12 or later, so the possibility to make it a 3-way deal certainly exists. In addition, Croshere can be re-traded at any time to another team as long as he is traded alone, or in a package after 60 days.

Since the Mavs already have Van Horn, does this mean another trade is in the works? Does Toronto or someone else want Croshere or Van Horn as part of a sign-and-trade deal?
This move looks like it fits exactly into what the Mavs wanted to do this summer - find a better replacement for Van Horn. Van Horn was on this roster to be an outside force against teams like San Antonio and Miami, who have imposing big men. In the Finals, the Mavs badly needed a player with his skill set (outside shooting big man) to hit shots and force Mourning to the bench, and Van Horn didn't. One very telling stat from the Finals was that Mourning's plus-minus was +32, and Van Horn's was -31. That's your title - and that's a major reason why Croshere is coming and Van Horn is leaving.

Are the Mavs on track, or did they veer astray with this move?
The Mavs’ summer plan was to get two players (a big man and a perimeter scorer) using a trade and the MLE. This move was the trade and landed one of those targets. The perimeter target is Mike James, and Toronto reportedly wasn't interested in Daniels.

Croshere has an expiring contract. Isn’t this a short term deal to dump salary?
While money is always an issue, we think there were other factors at play that made this much more than a pure dump of Daniels' contract. Croshere is as close to a KVH clone as you can find, albeit hopefully a more productive version with a bit better defensive ability. The Mavs want the ability to have that sort of player available to play alongside Dirk at times, and also to back up Dirk. As a result, if he produces, we wouldn’t be surprised to see the Mavs offer him a new (but less expensive) deal at year's end.

Why would the Mavs give up Daniels for Croshere? Couldnt they just re-sign Van Horn and get to keep Daniels and all his potential?
In spite of his potential, Daniels just didn’t find a niche here in Avery's system. At his position, the Mavs wanted a scorer who could hit the outside shot and then slash to the basket, and Marquis could do the slashing but couldn't hit the perimeter shots needed to keep defenses honest. It made no sense to have his salary buried on the bench, and the additions of Maurice Ager and perhaps James put him deeper down the rotation. Also, it's important to understand that by trading Daniels for Croshere rather than re-signing Van Horn, the team saved several million in payroll this year - and that amount may be enough to keep them below the tax threshold. With this trade, the team has 13 players in place at about $59M in taxable payroll. The tax limit has yet to be announced but may be at about $65M.

Will this trade mess up team chemistry? Since Daniels and Josh Howard were close friends, and the Mavs are wanting to work out an extension with JHo, isn’t this the wrong time to do such a trade?
As much as Daniels fit into the team locker-room chemistry here, it wasn’t in his best interest or the team's to keep him here rotting on the bench. He will get more opportunity in Indy. This should have no detrimental effect on the team's relationship with JHo.

Couldn’t the Mavs get more for Daniels than an aging backup forward?
Obviously not. Reports said they offered him to Toronto in a sign-and-trade for James and were turned down, which means his value was less than the value of a 31-year-old player available for the MLE. Toronto preferred to keep their cap space instead. In spite of his potential, Marquis apparently just hadn't produced consistently enough to be greatly coveted by GM's around the league.

What else might happen with the Mavs this summer?
The primary target is Mike James. There may be contract talks Thursday in Las Vegas. If the team can land him, that will fill the 14th slot. If not, they will still be shopping for the perimeter scorer.

With the trade of Daniels, doesn’t that limit their options if they can’t make a deal with James?
Let's back up a bit before we start worrying too much about doomsday scenarios. When the Mavs spoke last week of looking for the two players, they spoke in a way that seemed to imply they knew exactly who they wanted and were confident they could get them. With this trade, we are now hearing that it was essentially in place a week ago and just needed a few details to be hammered out. Maybe one of those details was that the team wanted to first be sure that they could get James with the MLE. Let's give the front office the benefit of the doubt that all this is planned to work together.

But how about a hypothetical. What if the Mavs can’t get James for the MLE?
The team still has the ability to offer the MLE elsewhere. Or they could package sign-and-trade players like Van Horn and Griffin with perhaps a young player like PPod or Marshall to put together a salary match package that might work for someone, even Toronto.

If the Mavs sign James, who will be the 15th man?
We think money issues could be a major consideration, since the MLE for James may put the Mavs very close to the tax threshold. They could even leave the slot unused. But if they have room, we think the choice will be between Griffin and Armstrong. If both are available at the same price, we strongly favor keeping Griffin who lest we forget was regularly needed as the starter at SG and provides some glue-guy intangibles when he plays.

Are there longer term benefits to this trade?
Yes. By moving Daniels' contract off the books, the Mavs added spending room - essentially the amount of the MLE - for future years. When you can get players like James, Radmanovic, Thomas, Claxton, Przybilla, Mohammed, and so on with an MLE, and usable players like Piatkowski, Mbenga, Buckner, Finley, Harpring etc for even less, it is important to have some spending room to use when needed. This team will continue to make tweaks each year, and having some flexibility is a great value. Although it hurts to let go of a talent like Marquis, it has to be recognized that he had been here 3 years and still hadn't developed into what the team needed, to get him playing time. At some point, you have to cut the cord and go on your way. They did.

734am July 6 06

Don't want to derail this thread, but I'd like to address a few things in this article.

First, that plus/minus for KVH is very eye opening. Especially when paired with Mourning. Lord's right, a lot experts, especially Hollinger, predicted that Van Horn would make it really hard for Miami to play Mourning at all. If Keith had been able to hit those open threes, it's a different series. Not saying it's all Keith's fault, not at all, but those stats are meaningful.

Also, If Mike James isn't signed here, and the perimeter scorer we go get instead can't play PG, then there's no way Griff takes the final roster spot over Armstrong. Can't go into the season with 2 PG's, especially when one of them is as injury prone as Devin has been so far.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

Damn, that sucks...

Yeah, but at least Croshere is an upgrade over Van Horn, and his contract ends after this year.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Also, If Mike James isn't signed here, and the perimeter scorer we go get instead can't play PG, then there's no way Griff takes the final roster spot over Armstrong. Can't go into the season with 2 PG's, especially when one of them is as injury prone as Devin has been so far.

Marcus Banks is also out there....

[Pro]

why couldnt we have just traded marquis for kobe, derrrrrrrrrrr, nothings perfect
goodbye quis, mavs need someone stronger

[bernardos70]

Originally Posted by Pro

why couldnt we have just traded marquis for kobe, derrrrrrrrrrr, nothings perfect
goodbye quis, mavs need someone stronger

I wish I could give you some rep right now. But I don't want to.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Pro

goodbye quis, mavs need someone stronger

Great, so lets go get the one guy in the playoffs who shot EVEN WORSE than Keith.

[pacers56]

Hey Dallas fans....I just registered and thought I'd offer my 2 cents worth on the Croshere - Daniels trade. I hope I'm not just repeating what was already posted. I did read 4 pages, but then skipped ahead to reply.
First off all I know very, very little about Daniels, so I don't really know if it's better for the Pacers, or better for you or about even. Anyway a couple of things that you will get with Austin that don't show up in stat lists are that he will set a pick and he will take a charge. He will also take the ball to the hole in order to get to the free throw line. If he get the foul he's a pretty good shooter.
I know that his ppg and rpg avg 's aren't all that impressive, but that may be due to the way he gets rotated in. All I can say is when he's playing close to the basket he's fighting for rebounds.
Overall what you do get is a player who is pretty tough and will do the dirty work or whatever else he's asked to do.
Oh and to the poster who said he would rather have Fred Jones, all I can say is.......no you wouldn't. Really!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by pacers56

Hey Dallas fans....I just registered and thought I'd offer my 2 cents worth on the Croshere - Daniels trade. I hope I'm not just repeating what was already posted. I did read 4 pages, but then skipped ahead to reply.
First off all I know very, very little about Daniels, so I don't really know if it's better for the Pacers, or better for you or about even. Anyway a couple of things that you will get with Austin that don't show up in stat lists are that he will set a pick and he will take a charge. He will also take the ball to the hole in order to get to the free throw line. If he get the foul he's a pretty good shooter.
I know that his ppg and rpg avg 's aren't all that impressive, but that may be due to the way he gets rotated in. All I can say is when he's playing close to the basket he's fighting for rebounds.
Overall what you do get is a player who is pretty tough and will do the dirty work or whatever else he's asked to do.
Oh and to the poster who said he would rather have Fred Jones, all I can say is.......no you wouldn't. Really!

Welcome aboard. I haven't seen one indiana game.

So how is he used in rotation? Who does he back up and where does he usually get the ball offensively?

Assuming that is on the perimeter and not on the blocks, what's his first inclination? Does he see himself a shooter or a driver?

[Five-ofan]

croshere is eddy najera with a 3pt shot.

[V2M]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Don't want to derail this thread, but I'd like to address a few things in this article.

First, that plus/minus for KVH is very eye opening. Especially when paired with Mourning. Lord's right, a lot experts, especially Hollinger, predicted that Van Horn would make it really hard for Miami to play Mourning at all. If Keith had been able to hit those open threes, it's a different series. Not saying it's all Keith's fault, not at all, but those stats are meaningful.

Also, If Mike James isn't signed here, and the perimeter scorer we go get instead can't play PG, then there's no way Griff takes the final roster spot over Armstrong. Can't go into the season with 2 PG's, especially when one of them is as injury prone as Devin has been so far.

Good point on KVH... if he could only hit a couple 3s out of the myriad open shots he got, it's a different parade out there! He was quite good against the Spurs which was odd since if anything he should have been more rusty then! His play against both the Suns & the Heat essentially is what caused us to lose Quis, I believe.

On your next point, I believe we need Grif more than a 3rd PG (like DA). Outside of JHo, we have no one to guard stronger SFs. And we now have quite a few of those in the West.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

croshere is eddy najera with a 3pt shot.

sounds good to me for a Dirk backup.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by pacers56

Hey Dallas fans....I just registered and thought I'd offer my 2 cents worth on the Croshere - Daniels trade. I hope I'm not just repeating what was already posted. I did read 4 pages, but then skipped ahead to reply.
First off all I know very, very little about Daniels, so I don't really know if it's better for the Pacers, or better for you or about even. Anyway a couple of things that you will get with Austin that don't show up in stat lists are that he will set a pick and he will take a charge. He will also take the ball to the hole in order to get to the free throw line. If he get the foul he's a pretty good shooter.
I know that his ppg and rpg avg 's aren't all that impressive, but that may be due to the way he gets rotated in. All I can say is when he's playing close to the basket he's fighting for rebounds.
Overall what you do get is a player who is pretty tough and will do the dirty work or whatever else he's asked to do.
Oh and to the poster who said he would rather have Fred Jones, all I can say is.......no you wouldn't. Really!

Welcome, nice first post.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

croshere is eddy najera with a 3pt shot.

And that's a perfect backup for Dirk.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by pacers56

Hey Dallas fans....I just registered and thought I'd offer my 2 cents worth on the Croshere - Daniels trade. I hope I'm not just repeating what was already posted. I did read 4 pages, but then skipped ahead to reply.
First off all I know very, very little about Daniels, so I don't really know if it's better for the Pacers, or better for you or about even. Anyway a couple of things that you will get with Austin that don't show up in stat lists are that he will set a pick and he will take a charge. He will also take the ball to the hole in order to get to the free throw line. If he get the foul he's a pretty good shooter.
I know that his ppg and rpg avg 's aren't all that impressive, but that may be due to the way he gets rotated in. All I can say is when he's playing close to the basket he's fighting for rebounds.
Overall what you do get is a player who is pretty tough and will do the dirty work or whatever else he's asked to do.
Oh and to the poster who said he would rather have Fred Jones, all I can say is.......no you wouldn't. Really!

Thanks for the insight.

Daniels is a gem by the way congrats, hope he plays up to his real abilities for you guys.