Danny Manning is a Mav - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

madape · 07-31-2001, 03:46 PM

This from espn.com.....

The Jazz lost another free agent today, ESPN Insider has learned, when forward Danny Manning agreed to a two-year deal, for $3.2 million with the Mavericks, according to his agent, Mark Bartlestein.

Manning, who played for the Jazz just one season, is still looking for that elusive championship. He'll have to play a reserve role to get it. Dirk Nowitzki starts at small forward for Dallas and Manning will have to compete for time with newly signed Adrian Griffin and second-year man Eduardo Najera.

Murphy3 · 07-31-2001, 03:48 PM

i like this move..now we have a sixth man..no use for juwan now though
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

TheKid · 07-31-2001, 04:01 PM

Yes I like this move too. I think Manning is an excellent sixth man. We still need to bring in someone with some physical force though.

Hoopsmeister · 07-31-2001, 04:40 PM

Its a good move in that it gives us a backup at the 3/4 which we didn't have before (Trent having fallen off the radar), but I don't see how Murph thinks this makes Howard expendable. Manning is not a starter. He hasn't been since his surgeries. He is a very good pick-up as a 6th or 7th man but doesn't affect the starters.

We still need a Dale Davis.

Murphy3 · 07-31-2001, 04:45 PM

hoopmeister, i was joking...
yeah, he's all we've got at the 4 spot....unless we wanted to move dirk to four and start najera at 3...
but, that's not gonna happen...
yeah, we're stuck with juwan for now, unless some type of miracle happens

i agree, we do need dale davis..if the mavs have dale davis and danny manning...i guess juwan moves to 7th man...

The Crippler · 07-31-2001, 05:38 PM

being a HUGE Kansas Jayhawk fan, I LOVE this move. I finally get to see my boyhood college bball hero in a Mav uniform. It's too bad he has been injury-riddled throughout his career, b/c he would have been something special if not for bad knees.

He'll be a valuble scorer off the bench, and he knows all the tricks on D. Heck, he avg. nearly 8pts a game last year in only 15 min/game. He's one of the best passing big men in the league. The old man still has got a little left, I think.

Hoopsmeister · 07-31-2001, 06:19 PM

Okay, Murphy--you've been so clear about your dislike of Howard I took you too seriously there.

seelenjaeger · 07-31-2001, 06:22 PM

more important to me is that we´d have a running center for some 10 minutes a game now ... that can accellerate the mavs game even more.

wondering if booth will stay ...

Bradley, Booth, Juwan, Dirk, Danny would be a nice 5 man rotation on the big slots

j

MFFL · 07-31-2001, 06:27 PM

Oh yeah! Great move by the Mavs [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

#41 · 08-01-2001, 03:04 AM

Danny Manning for the Mavs: sounds good!

And Murph, I now know you're always joking about Juwan, so I won't argue about that anymore...

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 09:22 AM

actually, most of the time i'm not joking about juwan.. i'd love for him not to be a maverick...
i think with booth leaving, this definitely means the wizard got the better end of the trade

#41 · 08-01-2001, 09:40 AM

ok, I won't care about what you're talkin' bout him![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Fidel · 08-01-2001, 10:08 AM

Most of what Murph says about Howard is true, unfortunately.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 10:21 AM

i'm not saying he's a bad individual or that he doesn't help this mavs team...
what i'm saying is..is that teams simply do not win championships with starters at the 4 and 5 position that are as weak as the mavs....
bradley has his defensive strong points, blocking shots...but he simply doesn't have the bulk to go against some centers...
howard doesn't have the athletic ability and quickness to go against any of the top power forwards...

in the western conference, this will get the mavs beaten in the playoffs..it's simply too difficult to make it through the western conference with that many defensive holes on the inside.

that's why i'm a big proponent of bringing in a guy that can play 30 minutes a game at the 4 and 5 spots, ..primarily a defensive guy...that maybe can score a bit..like a dale davis..or somesuch

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 10:38 AM

Exactly, and Juwan can come off the bench. Like I said, certain matchups Juwan was good. When he plays against players such as Clifford Robinson or Mo Taylor someone like that, he'll have his way, but who cares if he can dominate those guys because during the playoff run, he won't be facing them. He'll be facing Duncan, Malone, Webber and whoever is on the Lakers and he can't seem to handle them.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 11:03 AM

exaclty...
everyone will bring up the two games that juwan had against webber last year..but if you remember correclty, juwan barely outscored webber...and we can't make judgements about someone based on two games..it's a bit ludicrous...

yes, juwan would be a guy that could start against some of the weaker 4's..but the mavs would need someone to get 30 minutes a game at 4-5 when they're going up against most western conference teams that have a strong to elite 4 or a dominating center...(lakers)

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 11:19 AM

Well like I've said many times, yes he scored against Juwan, but does that mean he owned him?? NO, Webber did his share of scoring, Juwan didn't shut him down. He really didn't even make him work hard, that's all you could hope for. Look how Bradley played Duncan last year in the playoffs. He didn't shut Duncan down, you never will but while he was playing Duncan, Duncan had to work HARD for his points and it took him a while to get his points. It messed up the teams flow of offense, until Juwan had to guard him. That's what I mean, I don't need someone to SHUT a player down, but we need some one like, like in the case of Bradley defending Duncan, the Spurs had to try go another route. That's what I like to see, I like to see someone just mess up the flow of offense for the other team because when a player is that good, you're NEVER going to shut him down. Sort of like Bryant did that one game against Malone. He didn't shut him down, but he made it difficult for Bryant until guess who had to guard him again, JUWAN. (However I can't blame that all on Juwan because Malone had his way with Booth too)

MAYBE when Trent is healthy, he can give us that toughness and defensive tancity and rebounding we're looking for.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 11:23 AM

which is my point...the mavs have to have another alternative other than bradley..yes, bradley can be effective defensively at times, but he's quick to get into foul trouble...also, certain players, he simply cannot guard because of his lack of size...

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 11:29 AM

That's where I get bothered by Cuban. Even if we resign Trent, I don't know how much of a backup he would be for Bradley or anyone on our bench for that matter. We have YET to address that need. We're TRYING to address the backup point guard, but if you ask me that's not NEARLY as important as the center position.

The more I think about it, our 4 spot could be ok. We have Juwan and if we resign Trent they can split time. Maybe Nelson has a plan of increasing Harvey's minutes this year. If he does that, then we have Juwan, Harvey, Trent (if we resign him) and Manning getting a few minutes at our four position, which believe it or not, doesn't look too bad. Actually pretty good if you ask me. So that would answer that question, (Although I think getting rid of Juwan and Trent and getting Dale Davis would be fine with me).

However I have NO clue who we would get as a back up for center and I PREY we don't sign Olden Polynice...

MavsFanFinley · 08-01-2001, 11:48 AM

I keep hearing Dale Davis' name coming up now--ah, what do we have to offer for him that Portland would want?

I could see if we were sending Booth, but Seattle has taken that away from us. Cuban gambled and lost on that front.

Bradley? Davis over Bradley isn't an upgrade imo. And it still doesn't address a backup role.

Howard? Isn't this what Cuban is so proud of? That he'll be off the books for when Duncan comes to town? Oh wait, Cuban is the only one convinced that Duncan is coming.

Is a package of Harvey, Najera, Buckner, cash, picks enough? I don't think so and that doesn't help our bench--which was the main priority to solve.

If a trade cannot be worked out--why would a team want to help us now that they know Cuban must be a little desperate no matter what he says--we have to face the fact that Olden Polynice and Jelani McCoy could end up as Mavs.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 12:31 PM

yeah...the mavs are running out of options and tradeable commodities...
unfortunately, cuban and nellie are in love with juwan for some reason....(the biggest reason is that they probably don't want to admit they made a mistake)

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 12:55 PM

I believe NOW that we have signed Manning, trade Juwan... I don't care if we can get DD.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 12:58 PM

if manning were healthy, he'd be a much better player than juwan.. but since he's not, i don't think the mavs can afford to get rid of juwan until they have a guy that can play the 4 spot for 30 minutes or more a game...
right now, i guess the main focus has to be bringing in a guy that can play back up center though..especially with bradley's foul troubles...unless nellie plans on playing dirk at center

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 01:27 PM

You know that's his philosophy and I think that's going to mess Dirk's game up. Dirk is better IMO at facing the basket, he's dangerous that way. He's still working on playing with his back and playing in the post and I don't think he's ready to log 20 minutes at center. Which he will have to do with our current roster.

Trading Juwan for DD, would probably be the same lineup we have now, but our PF position would be Davis, Manning and Harvey I like that MUCH better than having Juwan there.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 01:38 PM

yeah, so do i..but the salaries wouldn't match up..davis for howard, so i guess that deal would never be made

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 01:47 PM

Portland would have to have some throw ins which they could definately sacrafice...

seelenjaeger · 08-01-2001, 05:03 PM

ALL I ASK OF YOU DALLAS FANS:

give j.h. a chance

please

hit him AFTER next season, not before. judge the marathon-race not by it´s first 100 meters (and they were not that bad eigher!)

MavsFanFinley · 08-01-2001, 05:15 PM

Sorry, I just don't see us getting Davis...but, if Portland wants Howard and is willing to throw in some spares to make salaries match, let's do it.

I agree with Murph, if Manning was a few years younger and healthy, we could unload Howard, but he isn't able for that big of a role. Unless we were able to get another pf to fill minutes with Manning.

If Cuban is to be believed, we won't see Howard traded because that's his ticket for cap space to get us in the running for Duncan, etc...

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 09:53 PM

i've followed j.howard since he was a senior in high school...
in college, he was never a good defender or rebounder...in the pros.. he's never been a good defender or rebounder..
how much of a chance does he need to prove that he can't rebound or play defense?..he's already proven that to me year after year...

contrary to popular belief, i don't hate the guy..he doesn't fit in the mavs scheme to well though....with bradley at center, the mavs need a strong defensive player at the 4 spot..and that's not juwan.. and it never will be....
he would be a good fit in miami, atlanta, philadelphia, or with the lakers...but not in dallas

MavsFanFinley · 08-02-2001, 12:44 AM

In that interview with Cuban, he said Dirk is not expected to play center. That they will obtain one--I wish I had a clue to who there targeting. Just a little nibble--that's not asking much.

He said Manning will play 15-20 minutes at the 3/4 positions.

Also said that most 2nd rounder big men haven't panned out after getting big contracts and didn't think Booth was worth the risk of his contract. Apparently, he did admit that he thought Seattle would match Patterson's offer, meaning they couldn't get Booth--he was wrong.

#41 · 08-02-2001, 05:22 AM

You tell it, seelenjaeger: GIVE JUWAN A CHANCE FOR THE NEXT SEASON!

Also if you think you know Juwan better than anybody else! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Rod1975 · 08-02-2001, 05:43 AM

I agree, give him a chance.
Forget about how much $ the guy makes, he is a great 4th offensive option with 18ppg imo, I mean would'nt you rather have him rather than trent in that spot? Juwan may be overpaid and over hyped, but he definitely can be a viable contributor to this Mavs team.
Also now with Manning in here we get an excellent sixth man coming of the bench, thats some great contribution to our core three, offensively speaking that is....

#41 · 08-02-2001, 05:44 AM

And I also like Juwan on our team cause he's so sympathic!

Murphy3 · 08-02-2001, 10:51 AM

you just don't get it..the problem with juwan has nothing to do with him offensively.
he's a horrible rebounder and he's a horrible defensive player... and with bradley being weak with certain match-ups in the middle, it's a must for the mavs to have a good defensive player at the 4 spot.

this isn't europe...the guys that play the 4 and 5 spots in the western conference need to be strong defensively..not just offensive weapsons

madape · 08-02-2001, 12:47 PM

Maybe some of Juwans defensive problems will become less of a factor in a zone. The opposing team won't be able to isolate him and we can double his man without the ball. You know that when Bradley's in the Mavs will run a zone every time, they did last year. I we can keep Howard's offensive production and limit his liability on defense by running a tight zone, the Mavs should be all-right.

Murphy3 · 08-02-2001, 12:50 PM

the mavericks' zone defense won't be drastically different than the defense they ran last year..as you said yourself..the mavs ran a zone last year...and guess what, juwan's defense ineptitude was very evident

madape · 08-02-2001, 01:09 PM

Oh, the zone will be very different. Not only can Bradley plop his ass down under the basket for long periods of time, but the Mavs can pack both forwards down deep in the post as well. It will be almost impossible for a player to penetrate the lane with 6'10", 7'0", and 7'6" guys waiting for him. Juwans slow lateral movement won't be as important when there are two tall players to clean up his mess. Its would to be easier to shoot over him. If Juwan is really overmatched, the Mavs can even bring a guy off of his man to double without the ball. I'm still not quite sure how the NBA will look with these new rules, but I bet the Europen game is pretty similar.

Murphy3 · 08-02-2001, 03:09 PM

let me ask you this...how many of the top college teams run a zone defense most of the time?....the answer is ..very, very few.
better teams predominantly run man to man defenses in college.. and i expect it will be the same in the pros, with a few exceptions, of course....
if juwan is weak defensively, opposing teams will find a way for their big man to exploit juwan...
nellie isn't the only person that can scheme..other head coaches will be able to do that as well..
and if all three dallas big men sag...the mavs will get burned by teams that can hit the 15-20 ft jumper all night long..and guess what, most teams can beat you that way...
so, that's probably not going to happen

seelenjaeger · 08-02-2001, 03:49 PM

I think the main reason for the college teams NOT to play the zone is the NBA NOT to play the zone - not vice versa.

In European soccer many youth teams play the same system like the grown-ups - not because it´s the best thing for them to do so, but to LEARN how to play it.

And Juwan defensively - well. The Mavs dont win a championship just because we bring in ONE defensive presence. The whole team has to find a way to play their game. If any opponent would throw high percentages, hits trey, rebounds well and dont commit any TO`s the game would be boring. Every team gots his ups and downs - you dont have to be the best everywhere to win you - you just have to find a way to make your UPs more important than your DOWNs ... and I am sure there´s a way ...

j