Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread - Page 26 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dallas41 · 06-26-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd drive him to Houston.

We didn't make the playoffs with Kyrie and Luka. It's time to clean house.

God I hope Powell signs elsewhere

That's the only way to keep him from. Getting starter minutes in Dallas.

Everyone is raving about Lively and Holmes but I guarantee the 1st time either one of them screw up Powell will eat up their Minutes

After I saw the Miami backup center zeller straight off the streets destroy Powell in a game this year I was totally done with that dude.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For anyone that still oddly wants Mavs to bring DFS back?

https://twitter.com/the_bball_index/...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

Again, only focuses on OFFENSE. Easiest way to see his impact on defense is noticing how badly the Mavs sucked at that when he was gone.

If you score say 12 points per game, but cause your team to give up 15...you're a net liability on the court. When DFS left, who was the Mavs stopper? No one...no one at all. This then caused other breakdowns everywhere on defense, and really exposed that the Mavs didn't have a shot blocker. DFS provided value on the floor when he didn't score a point.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Again, only focuses on OFFENSE. Easiest way to see his impact on defense is noticing how badly the Mavs sucked at that when he was gone.

If you score say 12 points per game, but cause your team to give up 15...you're a net liability on the court. When DFS left, who was the Mavs stopper? No one...no one at all. This then caused other breakdowns everywhere on defense, and really exposed that the Mavs didn't have a shot blocker. DFS provided value on the floor when he didn't score a point.

DFS's defensive rating dropped from 110 the WCF season to 117 last season, so yes, his defense fell too. Yes, we can all cherry pick advanced stats, but I haven't see a single stat that showed anything but a big fall.

I would go as far to say that both he and Bullock were net negatives last season. Really bizarre to see.

sig · 06-26-2023, 10:32 AM

Mavs still need to get a solid starter or 2 in the frontcourt. The rooks are great pickups but just don't see walking in and be big impact players right away. My hope is thet get consistent rotation spots for about 40 minutes a game combined. I look at the impact that Kessler had on Utah and think the Mavs would be lucky to get that in year 1 from Lively. For OMAX maybe his rookie season can be what Green did in his 2nd year. Maybe a deal of SnT Wood or THJ for Bamba and Vanderbilt.

Really with 2 defensive rooks like OMAX and Lively, Wood now seems like a fit. He struggles with switches and Kidd;s defensive help schemes but provides rebounding and rim protecting in the paint and is really good offensively. That was Kdds biggest failure last year. Throwing Wood under the bus for all the defensive woes was just wrong. I remember when RC was coach that often it was mentioned that players did n't fully understand his system until the 2nd year. Mavs had plenty of defensive woes. Maxi was hurt. DFS too for a couple weeks then traded. Bullock got old it seems and THJ talks about defense but is no better than Wood.

I wonder what direction the Hornets are going after drafting Miller. Hornets indicate they are prioritizing both Bridges and PJ along with DSJ as FA's. Bridges and PJ are RFA's. Hornets looking for vet presence. I suspect THJ fits that mold or at least thinks of himslef as that kind of player. Mavs should be talking to both Bridges and PJ as FA's. Should Mavs offer 27 FRP to get one of them? Besides THJ they have SnT Wood possibility.

https://swarmandsting.com/2022/11/01...e-role-player/

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

Mavs still need to get a solid starter or 2 in the frontcourt. The rooks are great pickups but just don't see walking in and be big impact players right away. My hope is thet get consistent rotation spots for about 40 minutes a game combined. I look at the impact that Kessler had on Utah and think the Mavs would be lucky to get that in year 1 from Lively. For OMAX maybe his rookie season can be what Green did in his 2nd year. Maybe a deal of SnT Wood or THJ for Bamba and Vanderbilt.

Yes, agree. But should consider that Lively is a better athlete than Kessler. But another solid veteran or two is needed.

Quote:

Really with 2 defensive rooks like OMAX and Lively, Wood now seems like a fit. He struggles with switches and Kidd;s defensive help schemes but provides rebounding and rim protecting in the paint and is really good offensively. That was Kdds biggest failure last year. Throwing Wood under the bus for all the defensive woes was just wrong.

Well, yes, and no. No, Wood wasn't responsible for all the Mavs defensive woes, but he made the defense worse everywhere. When one player has a defensive breakdown, others need to try to cover that up...leaving other defensive breakdowns. I think this is especially true with your center, who is supposed to be your clean up guy.

Quote:

I remember when RC was coach that often it was mentioned that players did n't fully understand his system until the 2nd year. Mavs had plenty of defensive woes. Maxi was hurt. DFS too for a couple weeks then traded. Bullock got old it seems and THJ talks about defense but is no better than Wood.

Yes, people underestimate how long it takes for the team to get the scheme, and then learn how to apply it. Although, conversely, a good coach should also make adjustments accordingly. Back when I played a little college football, the defensive scheme was very complicated..and we had breakdowns. The coach realized this, simplified the scheme, and defense improved dramatically, as that eliminated the breakdowns. Point being, coaches need to account for this and adjust.

sig · 06-26-2023, 10:37 AM

I don't want powell back until they unload McGee. I'd rather have powell because he would be a solid mentor for the young guys especially Lively and can be DNP-CD player who will be productive when called on when load management and injuries pop up.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 01:02 PM

The Utah Jazz are acquiring John Collins from the Atlanta Hawks, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Yahoo Sports' Jake Fischer also reports the deal is in the works.

Going back to the Hawks will be Rudy Gay and a second-round pick.

MFFL · 06-26-2023, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

The Utah Jazz are acquiring John Collins from the Atlanta Hawks, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Yahoo Sports' Jake Fischer also reports the deal is in the works.

Going back to the Hawks will be Rudy Gay and a second-round pick.

I am so happy that Collins isn't coming to the Mavs

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 01:58 PM

I will say that just bolsters the Jazz already stout big man lineup. Mavs can't seem to get bigs to save their life (although I wanted nothing to do with Collins and his contract).

We still need at least 1-2 starters.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 03:34 PM

Kyrie has requested #11 next season with the Mavs (currently worn by THJ). THJ would switch to #10.

Positive sign Kyrie will be back.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 04:39 PM

C. Haynes said we tried to trade for Ayton and the Suns said no to our offer.

Be curious to know when this was, but it's likely a sign we are still going after a starting center.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

C. Haynes said we tried to trade for Ayton and the Suns said no to our offer.

Be curious to know when this was, but it's likely a sign we are still going after a starting center.

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

We've been linked to Ayton multiple times though, so it's not surprising. Tons of smoke with that.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-26-2023, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We've been linked to Ayton multiple times though, so it's not surprising. Tons of smoke with that.

Yeah I've seen tons of articles mention Mavs' interest in Ayton, but I just don't see it happening. A: I doubt we could put together a package for Ayton that multiple teams wouldn't be able to outbid, and B: Phoenix is contending for a title. I seriously doubt they want to help create a potential powerhouse in their own conference. If they end up trading him, they either trade him to the East, or to a team that's nowhere near being competitive.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Yeah I've seen tons of articles mention Mavs' interest in Ayton, but I just don't see it happening. A: I doubt we could put together a package for Ayton that multiple teams wouldn't be able to outbid, and B: Phoenix is contending for a title. I seriously doubt they want to help create a potential powerhouse in their own conference. If they end up trading him, they either trade him to the East, or to a team that's nowhere near being competitive.

I think PHX knows they need to offload Ayton?s contract in an effort to fill out the roster. Obv KD, Beal, and Book aren?t going anywhere. Plus Ayton seems to have checked out mentally. I think I fresh start would be good for him. I don?t think PHX just gives him away for scraps though. I?m kinda surprised to hear that THJ and Holmes might have gotten it done. The guy averaged 18/10 last season, and he?s like 25 years old?

Melonhead · 06-26-2023, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

Read online it was for THJ and Richaun Holmes

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Read online it was for THJ and Richaun Holmes

The rumor is that the deal fell through over Javale McGee. Mavs wanted him included...Suns didn't.

EricaLubarsky · 06-26-2023, 08:20 PM

I won?t judge Nico on a deal that didn?t happen

But that?s dumb as shit

tap2390 · 06-26-2023, 08:49 PM

Target Brook Lopez, not DeAndre Ayton.

EricaLubarsky · 06-26-2023, 08:52 PM

Kyrie Will switch to 11 next season if he?s back

Lively will be 2

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 09:22 PM

I feel like we can make a move though based on what assets are being moved around. Looks like teams have finally moved on from that ridiculous Gobert stuff and come more reasonable with asks.

I mean, shit, if THJ, Holmes, and Javale possibly get you Ayton, then there is a trade out there to be made.

sig · 06-27-2023, 10:13 AM

There is no way the Mavs couldn't get an Ayton deal because the Suns refused to take McGee. Now if they were asking for Green or Hardy instead then fine but if they wanted Holmes and THJ and 27 FRP then Mavs shpuld have been all over that. I get Ayton has grown some warts but the guy can play.

IMO, Wood is a better defender than Powell. He may have some breakdowns on swtiches but he is far better protecting the rim and rebounding than Powell. This is on Kidd even if Wood didn't live up to what Mavs wanted. I'd rather have him offensively anyday than THJ. He shoots 3's as good and is pretty solid when you get him the ball in the paint.

I think a solid center to add for depth would be Plumlee from Charlotte/Clips? Could he be had with BiAnnual Excpetion?

Would Wiz take 27 FRP, THJ and McGee/Bullock for Kuzma at 25 mil. I think Kuzma wants to be in LA and at least on the West coast but think Portland or Sacto might make more sense. But they have the Murray bros so maybe not.

I'm curious what the Mavs think of AJ Lawson. They seemed to be upset when they lost him out of summer league last year but quickly signed him when he became available. I didn't think much of him in the summer league but he looked good in the tank game to close the season. He is like a 2nd round pick for me and will turn 23 in a week or 2.

saclare · 06-27-2023, 10:18 AM

Well, we should know a lot more come Friday evening. Still need a big piece either at wing or in the big rotation, perhaps both. But for me, a really good wing is key. Bruce Brown or Grant Williams with the MLE would be money. I'm betting Dillon Brooks and his ego miss out on a solid deal chasing more money only to settle. I have Brown and Williams > Brooks.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 10:22 AM

Only thing is those trade specifics come from Stein who is very tight lipped about specifics unless he knows for sure.

So it's kinda hilarious that Javale would be the hold up. I don't really want Ayton or his contract, but it's really sad if the Mavs DO want him and the trade falls apart over McGee.

Melonhead · 06-27-2023, 10:41 AM

I have a couple holdups on Ayton

If we can?t fix him, that 30m contract becomes really hard to come off of with the new cba looming. Look what happened to John Collins.

I?m not so quick to dump thj without some type of replacement for his pure shooting. One of our only guys not afraid to let it fly.

tap2390 · 06-27-2023, 11:07 AM

Missing out on Ayton is a blessing in disguise. Lively is the type of garbage-pail center we need. We need to develop Lively instead of immediately trading for a 25-year-old malcontent who is going to ruin the locker room if things don't go his way.

If you're looking for a stopgap solution then Brook Lopez is right there.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Missing out on Ayton is a blessing in disguise. Lively is the type of garbage-pail center we need. We need to develop Lively instead of immediately trading for a 25-year-old malcontent who is going to ruin the locker room if things don't go his way.

If you're looking for a stopgap solution then Brook Lopez is right there.

That's why I think Capela still makes the most sense if you can still get him. Perfect stop gap for Lively.

Stein did say the teams could talk again for Ayton. Mavs obviously want him pretty badly.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-27-2023, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's why I think Capela still makes the most sense if you can still get him. Perfect stop gap for Lively.

Stein did say the teams could talk again for Ayton. Mavs obviously want him pretty badly.

Capela would be PERFECT but apparently Atlanta is only interested if they're getting Hardy or Green. That's a no for me.

Dallas41 · 06-27-2023, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Missing out on Ayton is a blessing in disguise. Lively is the type of garbage-pail center we need. We need to develop Lively instead of immediately trading for a 25-year-old malcontent who is going to ruin the locker room if things don't go his way.

If you're looking for a stopgap solution then Brook Lopez is right there.

I think a change of scenery would do Ayton good.

I live in Phoenix and I've watched him in college and pro

I don't think everything you read or hear about him is true. Besides mavs have allegedly had Moody guys they traded for in the past who came to Dallas and didn't cause a single problem Vince Carter, Jerry Stackhouse, Nick Van Exel, Deshaun Stevenson and Shawn Marion.

Sometimes a change of scenery brings out the best in guys.

sig · 06-27-2023, 12:41 PM

The perfect answer from the Hawks would be Okungwu and Dejounte for SnT wood, Green. I might be tempted to throw in a 1st in 27 in that deal. IMO, Okongwu is probably a guy they won't deal and is about to break out. Okungwu, and Bey are all RFA's next summer as is Green. Murray is a UFA. So atlanta may be heading into similar scenario next year with salary. Gotta think Wood and Green salaries would be less and they pocket the 27 FRP. They can keep Capela though I would deal Wood for him since it seems Wood won't be back.

Let's see what Monty Python does in Detroit and how Vogel does with Ayton. Ayton had a really fine year and playoffs when the suns went to the Finals. Then monty won the COY, got a big head, started feuding with Ayton and got outcoached by Kidd who gets blamed for many of the Mavs current problems. I'll defer to RC over Monty anyday and RC wanted Ayton.

EricaLubarsky · 06-27-2023, 01:39 PM

Hakeem rating = block% + steal %

Thespiralgoeson · 06-27-2023, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hakeem rating = block% + steal %

Nice. Looks like this kid has the potential to be a real defensive beast.

saclare · 06-27-2023, 05:26 PM

I'll believe it when I see it, but some of the packages floated for Ayton seem too good to be true from a Mavs perspective.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 05:44 PM

Well we still need to fix our rebounding, and I'm sure the FO knows that. Basically feels like it's going to be Ayton or Capela. The big thing with Ayton is he shares the same agent as Luka.

I'm semi-talking myself into it because it feels inevitable, and we sooooo badly need the rebounding.

And I'm for moving on from THJ. Guy lets us down at every turn. We need his role to go to Hardy anyway.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-27-2023, 06:54 PM

Numerous reports that the Mavs and Suns are still talking. Stein says "don't rule out" Ayton to Mavs. So it seems the Mavs are more interested in Ayton than anyone else. If we can do it without giving up Green or Hardy, I think it's a no brainer, but I don't know the Suns will take any such offer.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Numerous reports that the Mavs and Suns are still talking. Stein says "don't rule out" Ayton to Mavs. So it seems the Mavs are more interested in Ayton than anyone else. If we can do it without giving up Green or Hardy, I think it's a no brainer, but I don't know the Suns will take any such offer.

Would you give them 2027 pick if slightly or maybe heavily protected?

Scoobay · 06-27-2023, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Would you give them 2027 pick if slightly or maybe heavily protected?

I would with as much protection as they'd allow.

pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to trade Lively?

I mean if we get Ayton, where does Lively fit in other than to have less necessity to perform immediately? Ayton fills the starting center role for a couple years until Lively is ready? Then we trade Ayton in his last year as an expiring?

Melonhead · 06-27-2023, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobay

pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to trade Lively?

Uhhhh

Thespiralgoeson · 06-27-2023, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Would you give them 2027 pick if slightly or maybe heavily protected?

Yes. I generally don't like trading picks, but it's highly unlikely we'll get a player nearly as good as Ayton with that pick, and Ayton just addresses so many of our needs.

That said, I'd rather have Capela at half the price. But Atlanta seems firm on not giving him up without Green or Hardy, or probably a FRP.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Yes. I generally don't like trading picks, but it's highly unlikely we'll get a player nearly as good as Ayton with that pick, and Ayton just addresses so many of our needs.

That said, I'd rather have Capela at half the price. But Atlanta seems firm on not giving him up without Green or Hardy, or probably a FRP.

I'd actually rather include the 27th for Capela even though that might not be worth it long term. We need to win now though. The guy averages 4 offensive rebounds a game which is exactly what we need.