turning point

[Murphy3]

i know this won't be a popular stance, but michael finley pissed any shot the mavs had at getting back in the game.
early in the fourth quarter, he took 3 ill advised turn around, fadeaway jumpshots, missed a 5 footer, had an offensive foul where he was double teamed but didn't pass when he had dirk and nash open for three, and missed a layup that would have cut the score to 6 or 7.
i know he's been key several times down the stretch, but he was pathetic tonight when it counted most.


yes, him, dirk and nash need to get going earlier. but finley killed the mavs down the stretch

[djb]

Finley also turned the ball over a number of times early on by dribbling too deep into penetration or by making an ill-advised (or rather sloppy) pass. I'm not placing this loss solely on his shoulders but this team cannot win with him playing so badly.

[Murphy3]

the team as a whole did not play well. but i truthfully feel that when the mavs got the game down to single digits in the fourth, that he pissed it away. he was a very selfish player in the fourth quarter.

[MFFL]

You're absolutley right - that's not a popular stance. It's not even a correct stance. Dirk was out of it for most of the game. Nash wouldn't shoot. What the hell is Mike supposed to do? Maybe the injury situation was the excuse, but those two guys were killing the Mavs ALL NIGHT! Dirk's defense needs two upward grades to be called horrible. He was everybody's ho tonight. Nash was just ineffective - no other words are necessary. Finley tried to do too much because nobody else was stepping up.

[Murphy3]

actually, dirk played fairly competent defense tonight.
and he did a pretty good job when he was guarding either robinson or duncan.

i'm sorry mffl, but you're definitely wrong.
finley made horrible decisions when the mavs cut the game down to single digits. yes, i know that dirk, finley, nash and howard all struggled but when the mavs cut the lead to single digits, finley had terrible play after terrible play

[MFFL]

I know that you think you are right, but look at the rebound numbers. Dirk - 6 rebounds, 1 offensive. Juwan - 11 rebounds, 4 offensive. I watched player after player light up Dirk. He had a terrible game.

[DunkingDeutschman]

I don't think it was any particular players fault. Nobody stepped up. Everyone looked tired. Finley had a few bad plays in the end but so did other people. The reason San Antonio started going on runs was because we were wasting our possesions. We didn't execute well and gave up the ball. Our defense was horrible. We kept jumped out on the shooters and leaving Robinson on the back door to slam it in. With 2 minutes left, we run down and shoot 3 consecutive ill-advised 3-ptrs instead trying to find the open shot.

[Murphy3]

finley didn't step up.
he forced turnaround fadeaway jumpshot after turnaround fadeaway jumpshot early in the 4th. he had open teammates but took poor shots instead of hitting the open man. he turned the ball over, took bad shots, missed a 5 footer, and missed a layup when the mavs were back in the game.

yes, i know dirk, nash, finley, and howard all struggled. but when you get back in the game, you have to hit the guy that's open for the jumper instead of taking a low percentage shot. i know that finley has kept the mavs in the game several times in the past., this time wasn't one of them. i know he'll come back and play better next game, but he has got to make smarter decisions and hit the easy 2 and five footers down the stretch. everyone does. but there was a stretch where the mavs got back into the game and finley made poor decision after poor decision, when he didn't make a bad decision, he was missing a layup or a five footer.

but, he'll come back and play strong next game

[Murphy3]

i know he didn't have a good game, but mffl, do you understand basketball? sometimes, players go to double team another guy, and when they do that, the player they guard may hit an open shot.
look for that next game, ok?

[MFFL]

The reason that he made those poor decisions is that nobody else wanted the ball. Nash didn't want it, Dirk spent most of the game with his head hanging low with frustration. Do you want Finley to shoot or Juwan? The other two of the big three did not step up at all.

[Murphy3]

i know everyone played poorly, my only point is that when the mavs cut it to single digits, what broke them was the finly offensive foul and the finley missed layup. what also didn't help were numerous other poor possessions where bad turnaround fadeaways were taken.

i know the loss isn't on one person, all i'm saying is that finley was the main culperate when it mattered most, when the mavs had gotten back into the game..
yes, i know the team played poorly as a whole

[Murphy3]

mffl, what do you base stepping up on?
that's what i want to know.
and i guarantee you dirk and nash would have no problem shooting the ball if finley would have passed out of the double teams.

[MFFL]

Lets turn it around. Do you understand basketball murph? The other two of our big three didn't want the ball. Neither of them created their own shot. All of Dirk's field goals came on set plays, he never worked to create anything. Nash was ineffective.

Yes, Finley tried to do too much. Yes it cost the Mavs. But I'm not going to blame a player for trying.

[Murphy3]

yes, dirk and nash do want the ball.

this isn't a dirk and nash versus finley.

i'm simply saying that tonight, which is rare, finley was horrible down the stretch. he made alot of poor decisions and took bad shots and missed easy ones. there's no arguing with that.

yes, i know nash and dirk had bad games, but when the game got close in the 4th, finley didn't perform well at all. that is all. this isn't anything else than that. Nothing more than stating the facts. the turning point was finley's play in the fourth.

[Murphy3]

i'm not trying to indict finley or anything.
i'm just simply saying that when the mavs had a chance to really get back into the game, finley for once wasn't good. he simply made some bad decisions and missed some easy shots.

nothing more, he'll do better next game.
don't get so upset for me saying the truth

[MFFL]

If you want to rip somebody, try Nash. He played 32 minutes of mostly wasted basketball. 9 total shot attempts (1 from 3 point land) and a measly 3 assists. Porter scored 15 points with 9 assists.

[Murphy3]

man, everyone deserves ripping.

i'm just saying that the one place where the mavs got hot and got back into the game, finley wasted several possessions in a row. and that was key.
that's it, nothing more. i know finley will come back and score 25-30 next game, but this time, he played very poorly down the stretch when his team had clawed back into it

[MFFL]

And I'm saying that the reason the Mavs were in the hole in the first place was mainly because of Dirk and Nash.

[Hales233]

If you want to criticize Finley's play, it's your right to do that, but in no way will I allow you to refer to him as a "selfish player" as you did earlier on in this thread. That is absolutely ludicrous. Finley is the antithesis of selfishness.

[Murphy3]

the reason the mavs were in the hole in the first place was all of the above.
it wasn't just dirk and nash.
finley was 8-24, his poor shooting was game long...so was dirk's, and nash's, and howard's.
there's enough blame to go along for everyone.

my one point is that finley was horrible when the mavs got the game close again. that's it.

and yes, i was probably wrong by saying finley was selfish late in the game, i admit that.

but,he did make horrible decision after horrible decision when the mavs got the game close again

[MFFL]

It's useless to argue with you. This is a circular argument. You say everyone had a bad game, so don't point fingers. Then you directly point to Finley as being the culprit for us not having a chance to get back into the game. He had more assists than THE REST OF THE TEAM COMBINED, yet he was the problem. ARGHHH!!!

[Murphy3]

you do not pay attention to what anyone else is writing.
i hate it when people selectively read.

do me a favor and read the title of this thread: it says, "turning point".

now, i know finley had assists in the game, that's not my point.

my point is that when the mavs got back into the game in the fourth, finley had several possessions where he either took bad shots, turned the ball over, missed a five footer, or missed a layup.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE REASONS THE MAVS LOST WAS SOLELY BECAUSE OF FINLEY. PLEASE REALIZE THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S NOT.
I WAS SIMPLY POINTING OUT THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS A HUGE TURNING POINT THAT TOOK AWAY ANY MOMENTUM THE MAVS MIGHT HAVE HAD. THAT'S IT, NOTHING ELSE

[MavsFanFinley]

Finley led the team in assists (7). How is that selfish? Nash could only come up with 3.

[djb]

I see what you both are saying, but there's really no point in arguing about it. The Big Three - and Juwan - played pretty badly tonight and made various bad decisions throughout the course of the game. Fin made critical errors amidst a fourth quarter run but the game was already lost at that point. You don't dig a hole that deep and expect to come out on top. Had he kicked the ball out rather than taken those ill-advised shots, maybe the Mavs would have cut it down to 5-7pts. But the way the Spurs were just manhandling them on BOTH ends, a Mavs comeback just seems less and less likely. I don't know what else to say about this game, other than I'm glad they're over and our guys are coming back home for two.

[MFFL]

Obviously YOU did not read MY post. I said "You say everyone had a bad game, so don't point fingers". That was in response to your statement "there's enough blame to go along for everyone". I think my rephrasing of your statement was fairly accurate. Then I said "Then you directly point to Finley as being the culprit for us not having a chance to get back into the game". I think that this is a fairly accurate summation of the first post.

My final statement "He had more assists than THE REST OF THE TEAM COMBINED, yet he was the problem" was my attempt to get you to realize that we wouldn't have been in the game without Finley. Finley's assists tells me that he was trying most of the game. Where are the stats supporting Dirk's or Nash's efforts?

It looks to me that you blame Finley more than any other player for the loss tonight. My reasoning would be since you singled him out, obviously he is your target. This seems blatantly unfair. You should not single out a single player to blame for any portion of the loss unless you single out other players for their portion of the loss (well you nailed Juwan - what a shock). You say everybody was terrible, yet it was Finley's moment of bad play cost us the chance to get back into the game?

[djb]

Like Murph originally said, everyone played piss poor tonight. But when the Mavs had that small window of opportunity during the final run, Finley made some backbreaking plays. Now as I said in the previous post, there's NO WAY he's to blame for the lost because the game was already over at that point. BUT had he made the right plays during those critical moments, there's a chance the momentum may have swung our way. I hope this doesn't sound too contradicting. I'm stressing over my portfolio crap right now and am having trouble thinking straight!

In my mind, whether or not he made those plays is inconsequential because there had already been enough backbreaking plays prior to that point in the game.

[MFFL]

I'm cool dj. I've said my piece and I'm moving on to FUN topics - like what moves can the mavs make to win the NBA title.

[djb]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I don't want to think about tonight's loss any longer. I don't think I'll be checking out any other boards for a couple days b/c I can't stand all the Spurs trashtalk. I like the Spurs as a team, and am rooting for them to win it all, but all their loser fans are making me despise them.

[Murphy3]

mffl, i apologize
it wasn't anything personal against you or personal against finley.
but like i've said and dj said again, the mavs had a chance to get back in it, and finley had some really bad possessions right in a row.
that's it.
nothing more, I know finley will come back and have a good game and be good down the stretch next game.
if it would have been dirk that screwed up down the stretch, i would have mentioned that....like dirk did down the stretch in the first utah game.

it's nothing personal against finley. he's my second or third favorite mav. hell, i want to see him score 25-30 a night

[TheKid]

I don't know you all think there was a window of opportunity down the stretch. I agree with you all in the since that Fin played poorly but I think you all are forgetting that the Twin towers DOMINATED that game. Whenever things got tough they went to their bread and butter and they were coming up with rebounds. Our players don't feel like they can drive to the basket, that's the reason for all the bad decisions. I'm sure Fin is hoping he can drive and someone else will cut, but everyone wants to chill out and wait for the ball to get kicked out to them. We're not aggressive enough and that's across the board ESPECIALLY in the post. The one whose probably PISSING me off the most is Juwan. If you're going to shoot that many times in the post, you should be going to the free throw line. Look at Malone, look at how Barkley made a living, hell look DUNCAN!!! It makes me furious, we do nothing to get the towers into foul trouble at all. That's why they need to post Dirk up more, it pisses me off that he does not post up, he should get his threes on the break because he's EXCELLENT at pulling up for that three pointer.

It doesn't matter now, this series is over. If we come back and win, I'll be AMAZED!!!

[Big Boy Laroux]

the problem. TOO MANY FADEAWAYS! and i'm talking about everyone. Why in the hell would dirk and fin fadeaway when avery johnson is guardng them? ridiculous.

[Murphy3]

they both took too many tough shots.
i agree.
i was so sick of the announcers saying finley and dirk were getting good looks
a fadeaway from 18 feet is NOT A GOOD SHOT. I know it looks good when it goes in but it doesn't go in at a very high percentage for finley.

dirk didn't get alot of looks either

[Big Boy Laroux]

there were a few times when i thought dirk settled for too many fadeaways. he started being more agressive towards the end (driving in against robinson). one play that sticks out in particular is when he was posting avery johnson. The ball was passed to the baseline side. no help came. all dirk had to do was take a power dribble to the basket to get himself in better position, but he settled for a falling-out-of-bounds jumper. Against Avery Johnson!

we just have to shoot better. it's as simple as that. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

early in the game, i think dirk was doubting the health of his heel a bit.
he was tentative. but, he began driving more as the game progressed
bottom line, he needs to hit the open jumpers when he has them, basically the same story for everyone else on the team

[TheKid]

It's funny how different people see different things in the game. Interesting article, will the Mav's be able to turn it around in Game 3?

Has Dallas Turned Timid?
Dirk, Especially, Needs His Swagger
By Gary Adornato and Mike Fisher – DallasBasketball.com
Our favorite Dirk Nowitzki story comes from last summer, when he volunteered to participate in the jetsam-and-flotsam Mavs Summer League team. Dirk never missed a game, never even missed a practice with the collection of scrubs. And after intrasquad scrimmages, when the losing group of Mavs hopefuls was instructed to run punishment sprints?
Dirk ran with them – even though he never once was on the losing scrimmaging team.
The moral to the story? What went wrong for Dirk Nowitzki in Monday’s Game 2 100-86 loss at San Antonio is not for a lack of work.
Nowitzki and forward partner Juwan Howard took 27 shots, making only six of them.
That is only part of the problem…
The missed shots certainly seemed to be the timid attempts of players without confidence or conviction. Dirk missed multiple opportunities while mismatched on guards in the mid-range, while Howard sliced or hooked at least a half dozen shots that were wide open, well inside his comfort area.
Taken together, they seemed to be playing scared.
The interior defense of San Antonio is ferocious. They attack every shot, often in waves, and concede nothing. But it’s still not pretty to see the Mavericks power players shying away, even refusing to take shots out of concern (nice way to say fear) of the consequences. The game might not have seemed close at the end, but had Howard and Nowitzki hit the shots that they usually do, the open shots that they did take, then those points alone would have closed the gap to nothing.
Moaned Nelson: “We have to get better. We have to make shots when they’re there. We can’t be reluctant to take open shots. Especially in the fourth when we were making a mini-run. … Nowitzki passes up two open shots for him. We can’t afford to do that. We can talk about it, but doing it is another thing.’’
It’s also fair to wonder at what point this timidity on the part of two of the Mavs big guns is affecting the team as a whole. Steve Nash played reasonably well at times, but there were eight or nine passes that he made that should have been converted, and weren’t. When does the frustration of working so hard to get the pass inside, only to see it not converted or even not taken, get to Nash? How many of Finley’s forced shots in the second half were the result of his own frustration with the absence of support, the effect of seeing so many missed open shots by his teammates?
The Mavericks traveled through the Utah series full of confidence, in each other, in themselves. In two games at San Antonio, cracks in that self-confidence are showing up, and the ramifications could bear watching. It can’t be healthy for the Mavericks’ psyche to see their big guys – other than Bradley, who continues to impress with his work – playing so tentatively on the offensive end. It can’t be pleasant to watch the Spurs grow in boldness, in aggression and in confidence as the games wear on.
In the first series, the Mavericks discovered their swagger when they came home for Game 3. Perhaps the same will occur at this time, and on Wednesday the flames will re-light inside Dirk and Juwan (and even Calvin Booth, another casualty to date). But it’s becoming simple and obvious; if the Mavs want to have a chance to recast this series, it will have to start with an aggressive and confident Nowitzki and Howard, taking the play back at the Spurs’ front line on both ends of the floor, and believing that they can compete with their San Antonio counterparts.
Their teammates will be watching…

[Murphy3]

there's enough blame to go around offensively.
dirk, finley, and howard all shot piss poor.
nash didn't do enough creating.
dirk and finley didn't create enough good looks.
finley got his shots, but alot of them were very low percentage shots.
dirk didn't take advantage of some matchups, like when ferry was guarding him at times.
there's enough offensive blame to go around for all 4 of the guys.

and one thing, it tooks about finley not having any support? how can you say that? why is it finley that didn't have any support? he didn't do anything either. he had 7 assists, but he also had 5 turnovers.
he scored a decent amount of points, but he was 8 for 24 shooting.

the same thing can be said concerning dirk.
dirk shot poorly and took some bad shots.

[TheKid]

I think they should play Eisley more in the next game. If Nash is hurt, get his ass of the court. Not to mention, what do the Mavs have to lose??? Nothing.

[LAM0015]

nash needs the experience.
he's the point guard of the future so let him work it out.
he didn't play poorly last game, dirk, finley and especially howard cost him about 9-10 assists because of missing wide open jumpers

[TheKid]

I'm saying because he's hurt. I'm not saying he shouldn't play at all, but if his ankle is hurting him that bad, why keep him out that so he can just damage it further. (ie Hill last year in the playoffs and look at him this season!)

[MFFL]

I agree with TheKid. Nash is a high energy player. He does not play well when he is hurt. He almost got booed out of Texas with his poor play when he first got here because he was trying to play hurt. If Nash is injured then it is in the best interests of the TEAM to bench him. But if he's OK, then he has earned the right to play out of his mini slump.