Is this you reeds, epitome, mavdog???

[dude1394]

I like to go over to the democraticunderground every once in a while to read the lunatics. But this one struck me funny. The topic is the 11 point (or whatever) bump dubya got from his convention. This is one discouraged puppy.

A lot of people I know who don't like Bush said that they thought he did a good job, and the past day or two I have been getting really nervous about the election. I think Kerry can still win, but I have an uneasy feeling...last week I would have put my money on Kerry...now I am not so sure.

I should probably get more active with his campaign, but every candidate I have ever volunteered for has lost, so I am afraid of jinxing Kerry.

[knowitall]

Americans do love their military. This election will be difficult for Kerry to overcome.

[dude1394]

The rest of the free world loves it pretty damn well also. Seeing as how the us navy protects the waterways, protects s. korea, intevened in bosnia, protects the middle east flow of oil.

[knowitall]

I don't think the rest of the free world likes it. You sure left out many european countries that disagree.

[dude1394]

You are being naive. Just like many of the protestors in nyc are naive. I didn't see protestors against our action in bosnia? Why not?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
I don't think the rest of the free world likes it. You sure left out many european countries that disagree.

Just because they dislike some aspects of the US military doesn't mean that they dislike all aspects of the US military.

[knowitall]

But this is the AMERICAN presidential election. All Americans are being treated like a huge flock of sheep. The sheperd is Bush and his fear spreading campaign. He says "Listen to me one and all. There is a hungry wolf out there and I have seen him with my own eyes". I, for one, will not be scared into voting for him again. You all know that he will escalate his war machine. The only option that he is mentally capable of exercising.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
But this is the AMERICAN presidential election. All Americans are being treated like a huge flock of sheep. The sheperd is Bush and his fear spreading campaign. He says "Listen to me one and all. There is a hungry wolf out there and I have seen him with my own eyes". I, for one, will not be scared into voting for him again. You all know that he will escalate his war machine. The only option that he is mentally capable of exercising.

What a cynical and hate filled rant, not to mention ignorant. Besides the talk on terror, Bush laid out a faily comprehensive domestic agenda that had zero to do with the war on terror. As for this "wolf" we all saw it on September 11, 2001. We've seen it again most recently in Russian in slaughter of 100's of innocent school children. So go head and stick you head in the proverbial sand and ignore real threats and real aspects of Bush's platform which have nothing to do with the war on terror.

[dude1394]

Ah knowsalittle....

Another smear with nothing but vitriole and hyperbole.. Or is "this" just a good morning too. If you want to vote for kerry fine, vote for the guy. But just because you are of a mind with the maggot moore, howard dean, al gore doesn't mean you aren't off our rocker. It also doesn't mean that your candidate has no core and he's proving it every day.

[knowitall]

He's not my candidate......and he is not the candidate for countless others. Just can't seem to wrap your brain around that, huh?

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: dude1394
I like to go over to the democraticunderground every once in a while to read the lunatics. But this one struck me funny. The topic is the 11 point (or whatever) bump dubya got from his convention. This is one discouraged puppy.

I said from the getgo it was Bush's campaign to lose.

Kerry has been given the challenge of seizing the initiative. He hasn't. Unless he does, he won't win.

The debate(s) will present an opp. Let's see if he is up to it.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: knowitall
He's not my candidate......and he is not the candidate for countless others. Just can't seem to wrap your brain around that, huh?

So either you have no vote(?) or you are someone who will sit it out and let others make decisions. You tell me which?

[dude1394]

From some site call the "armed liberal". Man the watches are OUT.

windsofchange

Here are three clues I'll offer the Senator and his staff for free; if they want more, they will have to rent them somewhere, since they seem clue-deficient themselves.

* No one who matters cares about Bush of Cheney's Vietnam service or lack thereof. Dedicated Kerry supporters are waxing wroth about it, but they'll vote for you anyway.

* We know you went to Vietnam, and we're pretty darn sure you acted bravely while you were there. But we also know that you opposed the war before you went over, left early after being slightly injured, met with the North Vietnamese while a member of the Naval Reserve, and were a leader in an antiwar organization that can charitably be called 'colorful.' Every time you bring up your service in Vietnam without framing your complex history (and here's the text of a free speech that might do it for you), you make people trust you less, not more.

* You've said a number of things that you need to explain. So has Bush, but unlike Bush, who is running on his character and personality (you wish!!), you're running on your ideas. So every time you try and zing Bush for something he said, he just gives that Gary Cooper look to the audience and their hearts melt. (Remember the scene in 'Blazing Saddles' where Cleavon Little says "You'd do it for Randolph Scott..."??) Sadly, you come across - no matter how much you try and loosen up on your Serotta or snowboard - as the stiff rich guy who is the stock villain in most modern comedies. Trust me, you're going to have to win with ideas.

So it would be nice if you had some. I've explicitly criticized a lot of what you've said about foreign policy, for example, as a combination of empty rhetoric (more internationalism!) and impractical ideas (send the Saudi money back!). Get smart and get specific. Tell us what you'd do in Iraq in the next 90 days, exactly, that's different than what Bush has done. Tell us what international forces will come in and augment ours, and what you'll give up to get them there.

What would be nice would be a different candidate, sadly. Is it too soon to talk about rebuilding the Democratic Party into an effective force for some progressive values that might actually make a difference?

[Epitome22]

"I should probably get more active with his campaign, but every candidate I have ever volunteered for has lost, so I am afraid of jinxing Kerry."

I'm not really sure what you are trying to insinuate.

As for the lunatics at DU, Republicans have their own confederacy of lunatics. It's called FreeRepublic.com

[reeds]

"What a cynical and hate filled rant, not to mention ignorant. Besides the talk on terror, Bush laid out a faily comprehensive domestic agenda that had zero to do with the war on terror"


LRB- you are vey naive if you believe that..Bush's whole agenda is terror...how he will beat it, how he can protect this country, blah blah blah...the rest of the speakers during the RNC addressed it, so Bush wouldnt have to look like the war monger he is..I cant blame Bush, its actually smart..Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....he must focus on something the gulible public can grasp...picking on other countries, disquising it as the war on terror

The quote Bush said that made me laugh the hardest..."the terrorist's wont hit the USA, not on my watch"???WTF?? wasnt it on your watch during 9/11?? Hmmm..YES...shoulda said, they wont his the US AGAIN on my watch...which problaby wont be true either...

[LRB]

Originally posted by: reeds
"What a cynical and hate filled rant, not to mention ignorant. Besides the talk on terror, Bush laid out a faily comprehensive domestic agenda that had zero to do with the war on terror"


LRB- you are vey naive if you believe that..Bush's whole agenda is terror...how he will beat it, how he can protect this country, blah blah blah...the rest of the speakers during the RNC addressed it, so Bush wouldnt have to look like the war monger he is..I cant blame Bush, its actually smart..Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....he must focus on something the gulible public can grasp...picking on other countries, disquising it as the war on terror

The quote Bush said that made me laugh the hardest..."the terrorist's wont hit the USA, not on my watch"???WTF?? wasnt it on your watch during 9/11?? Hmmm..YES...shoulda said, they wont his the US AGAIN on my watch...which problaby wont be true either...

Bush has put more emphasis away from the War on Terror than Kerry has on his Vietnam service making him fit to be President. Is the War on Terror Bush's primary focus? Damn straight and as well it should be IMO. However it's far from his only focus.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: LRB

Bush has put more emphasis away from the War on Terror than Kerry has on his Vietnam service making him fit to be President. Is the War on Terror Bush's primary focus? Damn straight and as well it should be IMO. However it's far from his only focus.

It is his only focus. It was the convention's only focus. The Republicans know they don't have anything sound to run on so they go on the offensive. The entire convention was that John Kerry is a pussy unfit to lead the war on terror and unless you reelect George Bush we could all be speaking arabic next year.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: reeds
"What a cynical and hate filled rant, not to mention ignorant. Besides the talk on terror, Bush laid out a faily comprehensive domestic agenda that had zero to do with the war on terror"


LRB- you are vey naive if you believe that..Bush's whole agenda is terror...how he will beat it, how he can protect this country, blah blah blah...

Did you listen to Bush's speech?

Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....

Clearly, you DIDN'T listen to his speech. Bush talked about all three of those issues.

he must focus on something the gulible public can grasp...picking on other countries, disquising it as the war on terror

The "gulible [sic] public"? That's the problem with your viewpoint, reeds. You think that if the majority of the public disagrees with you, it must be because they're stupid and gullible. Truth is, they just THINK differently than you do.

As for the "picking on other countries" comment, to which country are you referring? Please, tell me which country Bush has picked on. Afghanistan? Iraq? Which one?

The quote Bush said that made me laugh the hardest..."the terrorist's wont hit the USA, not on my watch"???WTF?? wasnt it on your watch during 9/11?? Hmmm..YES...shoulda said, they wont his the US AGAIN on my watch...which problaby wont be true either...

Bush never said that. He said, "I believe the most solemn duty of the American president is to protect the American people. If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift toward tragedy. This will not happen on my watch." And apparently, the majority of Americans believe him.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
It is his only focus. It was the convention's only focus. The Republicans know they don't have anything sound to run on so they go on the offensive. The entire convention was that John Kerry is a pussy unfit to lead the war on terror and unless you reelect George Bush we could all be speaking arabic next year.

A fairer assessment would be that the convention's main focus was on the war on terror and why George Bush is the better choice to defend the nation and lead the war on terror. Just like the main (not the only) focus at the DNC was on John Kerry's Vietnam service. I guess we know which issue resonates more with the voting public.

As for the "we could all be speaking Arabic" comment, I take that as hyperbole on your part.

As for Bush not having anything sound to run on, that's your opinion. I thought he laid out a pretty impressive overall agenda in his speech.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

A fairer assessment would be that the convention's main focus was on the war on terror and why George Bush is the better choice to defend the nation and lead the war on terror. Just like the main (not the only) focus at the DNC was on John Kerry's Vietnam service. I guess we know which issue resonates more with the voting public.

As for the "we could all be speaking Arabic" comment, I take that as hyperbole on your part.

As for Bush not having anything sound to run on, that's your opinion. I thought he laid out a pretty impressive overall agenda in his speech.

Bush's speech came off more like a man running for his first term than for reelection. Very little was based on the substance of what he did and the majority of it was on what he 'will' do. In fact, the word 'will' was used some 70 times in his speech. If Bush's presidency was as strong as some of his supporters made it out to be, His job at the convention would have been alot easier. Instead with promises stacked on top of promises and the tearing up near the end, Bush came off less like a man running on a record that speaks for itself and more like a man asking for a second chance. You don't usually have to ask for a second chance unless you messed up the first time.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Epitome22


Bush's speech came off more like a man running for his first term than for reelection. Very little was based on the substance of what he did and the majority of it was on what he 'will' do. In fact, the word 'will' was used some 70 times in his speech. If Bush's presidency was as strong as some of his supporters made it out to be, His job at the convention would have been alot easier. Instead with promises stacked on top of promises and the tearing up near the end, Bush came off less like a man running on a record that speaks for itself and more like a man asking for a second chance. You don't usually have to ask for a second chance unless you messed up the first time.

That's because Bush is focused on the future instead of the past as Kerry is. Bush IS running for election in 2004, not asking people to vote for him in 2000.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: LRB

That's because Bush is focused on the future instead of the past as Kerry is. Bush IS running for election in 2004, not asking people to vote for him in 2000.

Like I said. He came off more like a man running for first term than reelection. Focusing on the 'future' is hardly a noble commitment when the 'past' doesen't bring up much to fondly talk about. Not that this 'future' commitment is all that accurate. George Bush milked every stay droplet of sympathy for the victims of 9/11 as he could possibly squeeze.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Epitome22

Like I said. He came off more like a man running for first term than reelection. Focusing on the 'future' is hardly a noble commitment when the 'past' doesen't bring up much to fondly talk about. Not that this 'future' commitment is all that accurate. George Bush milked every stay droplet of sympathy for the victims of 9/11 as he could possibly squeeze.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just completely disagree.

[reeds]

Did you listen to Bush's speech?


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Clearly, you DIDN'T listen to his speech. Bush talked about all three of those issues.

KG- he can talk all he wants about the three issues..but what can he really say?? he is blowing through the whole social security surplus??? That should work...He hasnt fulfilled his promise to create the job numbers this country was counting on? Healthcare premiums are sky high and many americans are uninsured....hmmm..keep talking Dubya..

[LRB]

Originally posted by: reeds
Did you listen to Bush's speech?


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Clearly, you DIDN'T listen to his speech. Bush talked about all three of those issues.

KG- he can talk all he wants about the three issues..but what can he really say?? he is blowing through the whole social security surplus??? That should work...He hasnt fulfilled his promise to create the job numbers this country was counting on? Healthcare premiums are sky high and many americans are uninsured....hmmm..keep talking Dubya..

Spin, ignore, more spin. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[Mavdog]

What he said in his speech on these issues is summed up with "I really want to do something, I'll get back to you on what that could be."

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
What he said in his speech on these issues is summed up with "I really want to do something, I'll get back to you on what that could be."

In a totally biased and hate filled view, I guess that could be considered accurate. However that's not the way I or millions of other Americans heard it according to the latest polls.

[Chiwas]

In a totally biased and hate filled view.

It's the characteristic of this section, generally.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

In a totally biased and hate filled view, I guess that could be considered accurate. However that's not the way I or millions of other Americans heard it according to the latest polls.

"hate"?

talk about tossing out misdirection.

in your world criticsm=hate.

interesting.

The polls didn't ask about this BTW.

[dude1394]

Well it looks like about 11% or so MORE people agree with dubya's version of what's important than they do with kerry's preoccupation with his own war record. Since kerry decided that his 20 year senate history wasn't worth talking about, it's only fair that we criticise bush's plans, since he was the only one laying any out there.

[dude1394]

Actually I think that the new equation this election is:

criticism= "questioning kerry's patriotism".

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
What he said in his speech on these issues is summed up with "I really want to do something, I'll get back to you on what that could be."

Well actually that's bull-honkey. As his campaign handed out 50 page position papers on his proposals. He only had an hour dude.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: dude1394

So either you have no vote(?) or you are someone who will sit it out and let others make decisions. You tell me which?

Calling knowsalittle. Earth to knowsalittle.

[dude1394]

Ok which one of you'all penned this???

Ah the "newspaper of record"strikes again" and tries to get their candidate back on top. Birdcage liner newspaper

ONLY in an election year ruled by fiction could a sissy who used Daddy's connections to escape Vietnam turn an actual war hero into a girlie-man.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Well actually that's bull-honkey. As his campaign handed out 50 page position papers on his proposals. He only had an hour dude.

Then enlighten us. As was said, "where's the beef?"

Show us the details in Bush's proposals to "reform" these programs/structures.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
What he said in his speech on these issues is summed up with "I really want to do something, I'll get back to you on what that could be."

From David Brooks' column, posted in full here:

....The biggest proposals, which could really make history, were only hinted at. But Bush understands the crucial reform challenge: "Many of our most fundamental systems - the tax code, health coverage, pension plans, worker training - were created for a world of yesterday, not tomorrow. We will transform these systems."

In his speech, he redefined compassionate conservatism. The faith-based initiatives are now only a part of a much bolder whole. Bush declared that government should move energetically to help people get skills and to open opportunities. "Government should help people improve their lives, not run their lives," he said. That is the essence of the party's new governing philosophy.

The Bush agenda has been greeted with a wave of skepticism from my buddies in the press corps. How's he going to pay for all this? Why didn't he do more of this in his first term? Why was he so vague about the big things? Won't he sacrifice it all on the altar of tax cuts?

But, of course, he's not going to tell us at the peak of the campaign season about painful spending decisions. He's not going to specify who is going to get gored by tax simplification. No competent candidate has ever done that, and none ever will. <u>That doesn't make the policy ideas bogus.<u>

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: reeds
"What a cynical and hate filled rant, not to mention ignorant. Besides the talk on terror, Bush laid out a faily comprehensive domestic agenda that had zero to do with the war on terror"


LRB- you are vey naive if you believe that..Bush's whole agenda is terror...how he will beat it, how he can protect this country, blah blah blah...the rest of the speakers during the RNC addressed it, so Bush wouldnt have to look like the war monger he is..I cant blame Bush, its actually smart..Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....he must focus on something the gulible public can grasp...picking on other countries, disquising it as the war on terror

The quote Bush said that made me laugh the hardest..."the terrorist's wont hit the USA, not on my watch"???WTF?? wasnt it on your watch during 9/11?? Hmmm..YES...shoulda said, they wont his the US AGAIN on my watch...which problaby wont be true either...

This, right here folks, is one of the most disgusting collaborations of bullcrap I have ever read in my entire life.

Bush certainly cant talk about Social security, jobs, healthcare....he must focus on something the gulible public can grasp...picking on other countries, disquising it as the war on terror

So you, along with John Kerry, would be able to sit back and watch millions of innocent people starve to death in Afghanistan and be slaughtered in Iraq, and not have a single problem with it because you have a nice job with a nice house with a nice pool table and nice dolby surround sound entertainment sytem in your living room?

If only you were as smart as you thought you were. You're claiming that terrorism, in your eyes, is merely "something the gullible can grasp?" Grow up man. Over 5,000 people died on 9-11. Ever since that day, George Bush has kept this country safe from another brutal attack like that. Since when is having health care more important than being alive?

I don't know about you pal, but I'd rather be alive and healthy than dead and wealthy. Grow up, start thinking about the unfortunate people in this world, and stop being so dang selfish. Good day.

[Mavdog]

No competent candidate has ever done that, and none ever will. That doesn't make the policy ideas bogus

That doesn't make the "policy ideas" worthy, realistic or supportable either.

To go out and say this is a reason to support a candidate without knowing just what that candidate is proposing is falacious.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

Then enlighten us. As was said, "where's the beef?"

Show us the details in Bush's proposals to "reform" these programs/structures.

Here's the beef.
the whopper

Chapter 1
Reforming America’s High Schools: President Bush will provide $250 million annually to extend state assessment of student reading and math skills.
• Jobs for the 21st Century Initiative: President Bush will provide $500 million for Jobs for the 21st Century, which will help educate and train high-skilled American workers in schools and community colleges.
• Tax Reform: President Bush will work to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy’s ability to create jobs and raise wages.
• Opportunity Zones: President Bush will create new Opportunity Zones, which will encourage public and private investment and provide priority consideration for Federal benefits to communities that are under economic hardship.
• Read the Chapter Now

Chapter2:
Helping American Families in a Changing World

• Helping the Working Uninsured by Expanding Health Savings Accounts: President Bush will propose a tax credit for Health Savings Account contributions to help individuals and families who work for small businesses fund their Health Savings Accounts.
• Make Health Care Accessible: President Bush will call for a community health center in every poor county in America.
• Promote Comp-Time and Flex-Time: President Bush will work to enable employees to choose paid time off as an alternative to overtime pay and to give employees the option of shifting work hours during a pay period.
• Crack Down On Drugs in Schools: President Bush will increase funding for school drug testing to help students resist peer pressure and help parents intervene with students in need.
• Read the Chapter Now

Chapter3:
Promoting an Era of Ownership

• Homeownership: President Bush will provide assistance to help America to meet his new goal of creating 7 million new, affordable homes in 10 years.
• Social Security Reform: President Bush will strengthen and enhance Social Security, guaranteeing no changes in benefits for current retirees and near-retirees, while giving younger workers the opportunity to use their Social Security payroll taxes to build a nest egg for retirement that can be passed on to their families.
• Help Small Businesses: President Bush will help small businesses in a number of ways, including by allowing them to band together to provide more affordable health care for their employees through Association Health Plans.
• Read the Chapter Now

Chapter4:
Defending American Lives and Liberty

• Fight the War On Offense: President Bush will continue to lead a worldwide coalition to fight terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home.
• Intelligence Reform: President Bush will work with a new National Intelligence Director to improve the quality and quantity of our intelligence and our ability to disrupt and prevent terrorist attacks.
• Troop Redeployment: President Bush will restructure American forces overseas to use existing forces more effectively and to support servicemen, servicewomen, and their families more efficiently.
• Read the Chapter Now

Chapter5:
Supporting Our Communities and Honoring American Values of Compassion and Service

• Judges: President Bush will continue to appoint to the Federal courts well-qualified judges who share his commitment to strictly interpret the law.
• Welfare Reform: President Bush will continue to press for reauthorization of welfare reform and to build on its successes, strengthening families and helping more welfare recipients achieve independence through work.
• Faith-Based and Community Initiatives: President Bush will continue to support the good work of community and faith-based groups and help ensure that these charities can participate in Federal, state, and local programs without discrimination.
• Read the Chapter Now

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

That doesn't make the "policy ideas" worthy, realistic or supportable either.

To go out and say this is a reason to support a candidate without knowing just what that candidate is proposing is falacious.

Lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox, lockbox...........