Kidd now calling the shots for Mavericks on offense - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

No, but I imagine it's a quick read. My guess is it's in haiku form:

Isolation Post
Wrestle dissenters in the nude
More Stackhouse

This post has now been quoted three times and is still incredibly under rated.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Getting back on topic, I do think it's fair to question why Carlisle didn't let Kidd run the show from the start of the season. I guess the important thing is that he is doing it now.

Yay.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Getting back on topic, I do think it's fair to question why Carlisle didn't let Kidd run the show from the start of the season. I guess the important thing is that he is doing it now.

Yay.

That was my point as well, especially with all that talk from him saying he was going to let Kidd lead the team. Then when you hear the part about him calling about 80% of the plays was a shocker. All I could think about was that was another downfall from the past, that we were wanting to get away from.

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Getting back on topic, I do think it's fair to question why Carlisle didn't let Kidd run the show from the start of the season. I guess the important thing is that he is doing it now.

Yay.

I don't really think that's fair. Coaches call plays in this league. I'm willing to bet this will be the first time Kidd has ever regularly called the majority of the plays while on the court.

I'm intrigued by Carlisle's willingness to try it, but I don't think it's fair to say he should have done it from the beginning. I don't remember hearing anyone say that Carlisle should be letting Kidd call the plays.

grndmstr_c · 02-02-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Getting back on topic, I do think it's fair to question why Carlisle didn't let Kidd run the show from the start of the season. I guess the important thing is that he is doing it now.

Yay.

My understanding from the news reports at the beginning of the season was that Carlisle if anything gave the team a little too much freedom early on, and then when things started out poorly added some structure, so I'm not sure that it really is a fair criticism. If you want to question whether this move couldn't have been made a month ago, I think that's more reasonable, IMO.

I wonder if Josh's inability to get healthy might not have impacted the timing to some extent, though. The team had to go through a fairly long period of learning to play without him, and then had to adjust to having him back in the lineup briefly only to lose him again before his latest return. It's not an unprecedented challenge for an NBA team to face by any means, and I don't intend it as an excuse, but you have to believe Josh's struggles with his health have not been overlooked by the coaching staff.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't really think that's fair. Coaches call plays in this league. I'm willing to bet this will be the first time Kidd has ever regularly called the majority of the plays while on the court.

I'm intrigued by Carlisle's willingness to try it, but I don't think it's fair to say he should have done it from the beginning. I don't remember hearing anyone say that Carlisle should be letting Kidd call the plays.

Quote:

"This team needs to be more of an up-tempo-type team," Carlisle said. "We have a great leader in Jason Kidd that I have to give the ball to and let him run the team, which I've done with some of the point guards I've had in the past.

http://www.nba.com/preview2008/dal.html

Kidd Karma · 02-02-2009, 04:45 PM

I think this is the best thing for JHo, this gives Kidd ability to push JHo's buttons when he isn't moving.

SMC0007 · 02-02-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I think this is the best thing for JHo, this gives Kidd ability to push JHo's buttons when he isn't moving.

True..

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

http://www.nba.com/preview2008/dal.html

Key quote from that article:

Quote:

"He has no problem with guys that he trusts that can run the team," Kidd said of Carlisle. "He said he will call plays at some point, but first will look to get easy baskets. He wants to have a sense of ‘just playing.' Being structured, but playing, because when you get to the Finals, it's not so much about the plays, but being able to play. I'm excited to play for Rick."

If you remember, we DID that. They played the motion offense, everyone talked about how they didn't really have any set plays the first week or two of the season. Remember?

And it didn't work, so they started to install a different offense that involved more set plays. Kidd still had control in that it was generally up to him when to push it and when to set it up in the half court (key difference from Avery), but Carlisle was calling a lot of the set plays, which is the norm in the NBA.

Give control of the offense to your point guard is NOT the same thing as turning over 100% of the play calling to him. That is something that is not done on any other team in the league.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Key quote from that article:

If you remember, we DID that. They played the motion offense, everyone talked about how they didn't really have any set plays the first week or two of the season. Remember?

And it didn't work, so they started to install a different offense that involved more set plays. Kidd still had control in that it was generally up to him when to push it and when to set it up in the half court (key difference from Avery), but Carlisle was calling a lot of the set plays, which is the norm in the NBA.

Give control of the offense to your point guard is NOT the same thing as turning over 100% of the play calling to him. That is something that is not done on any other team in the league.

It may not be EXACTLY the same, but I don't think they are mutually excluse either. I know coaches don't let the players call 100% of the plays, I never said that. I think, in general, we can agree that the rope was a little tight, and this is a good way of loosening it.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 05:25 PM

I am glad Carlisle is now living up to what he promised Kidd. I am just glad Stack is hurt, because Carlisle is known to play his too old vets too much as well. I think I remember Carlisle sitting Tayshaun for more of his rookie year while giving ole Michael Curry all the time he wanted.

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I am glad Carlisle is now living up to what he promised Kidd. I am just glad Stack is hurt, because Carlisle is known to play his too old vets too much as well. I think I remember Carlisle sitting Tayshaun for more of his rookie year while giving ole Michael Curry all the time he wanted.

Old vets like Gerald Green, Antoine Wright and Juan Jose Barea???

I have no idea where you get your ideas about Rick Carlisle, but it certainly isn't from the games he's coached for the Mavs THIS season - I've seen exactly the opposite of what you're claiming...

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Old vets like Gerald Green, Antoine Wright and Juan Jose Barea???

I have no idea where you get your ideas about Rick Carlisle, but it certainly isn't from the games he's coached for the Mavs THIS season - I've seen exactly the opposite of what you're claiming...

Try to read my sentence a little longer, because you are clueless on what I was saying. Just at the start of the season Stack was getting all the time he wanted while ole Green sat on the bench until Stack got hurt.

More quotes on Carlisle offense:
Artest fired back, criticizing Carlisle’s offensive system.

“He calls all the plays. It’s not easy to play in a set every time,” Artest said. “I feel like I can play. If they don’t want me to play here, I can go play somewhere else.”

Direct quote from Carlisle throwing his team and leaders under the bus:
“I’m disappointed also with the leadership of the team,” Carlisle said. “It’s one thing for me to make a stand, but the guys in the locker room have to make a stand as well. No one guy is bigger than this team. No one guy is bigger than this franchise.”

Link: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/3819487/

Ex-Pacer rips Rick Carlisle:
Very Interesting to see he was right.
http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...-carlisle.html

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Try to read my sentence a little longer, because you are clueless on what I was saying. Just at the start of the season Stack was getting all the time he wanted while ole Green sat on the bench until Stack got hurt.

More quotes on Carlisle offense:
Artest fired back, criticizing Carlisle’s offensive system.

“He calls all the plays. It’s not easy to play in a set every time,” Artest said. “I feel like I can play. If they don’t want me to play here, I can go play somewhere else.”

Direct quote from Carlisle throwing his team and leaders under the bus:
“I’m disappointed also with the leadership of the team,” Carlisle said. “It’s one thing for me to make a stand, but the guys in the locker room have to make a stand as well. No one guy is bigger than this team. No one guy is bigger than this franchise.”

Link: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/3819487/

You're saying that I'm the one missing the point when you're the one who quoted an article from 2003 in response to me talking about THIS season?

What reality are you living in (and can I take a toke?)

grndmstr_c · 02-02-2009, 05:46 PM

And here I was thinking we'd finally gotten page 7 of this thread on track for some real discussion of the article at hand. Silk, learn when to quit, man. Of if you really enjoy spending time around people who despise you as much as seems to be the case do us all a favor, move to Iran and start loitering around mosques telling everybody who walks by what an a-hole Mohammed was.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And here I was thinking we'd finally gotten page 7 of this thread on track for some real discussion of the article at hand. Silk, learn when to quit, man. Of if you really enjoy spending time around people who despise you as much as seems to be the case do us all a favor, move to Iran and start loitering around mosques telling everybody who walks by what an a-hole Mohammed was.

I know! I'm so sick of these tit for tat arguments on these boards. They are driving me nuts!

Is there anyway for us to just discuss the Mavericks without resulting to childish behavior with every response? I was proud of you, me, and Jthing having a dignified discussion. Now it's just f-in ruined. Screw this, I'm gonna finish up some work and wait til the game starts.

Go Mavs

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I know! I'm so sick of these tit for tat arguments on these boards. They are driving me nuts!

Is there anyway for us to just discuss the Mavericks without resulting to childish behavior with every response? I was proud of you, me, and Jthing having a dignified discussion. Now it's just f-in ruined. Screw this, I'm gonna finish up some work and wait til the game starts.

Go Mavs

STFU!

(has anyone touched on the subject of whether or not Kidd is up to the task of running the show at this point in his career, or is his age an asset in this case?)

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're saying that I'm the one missing the point when you're the one who quoted an article from 2003 in response to me talking about THIS season?

What reality are you living in (and can I take a toke?)

Real simple. I was backing up my point about Carlisle known to call all the plays for his team. Which is what this thread is about.

I then went on to show how he says one thing to people, then changes things up later. I provided the link to show how this has happened in the past. If I did not post the link, then someone like yourself would have accused me of making up things.

Lastly, I remember someone pointing out that Avery threw his team under the bus along with attacking the leadership of the team. So, I went about posting a link where Carlisle did the same exact thing. Case in point, that I dont feel we got a coach that is Mr.Change. I think it was long overdue to hand the offense over to Kidd. Which again is what this thread is about.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And here I was thinking we'd finally gotten page 7 of this thread on track for some real discussion of the article at hand. Silk, learn when to quit, man. Of if you really enjoy spending time around people who despise you as much as seems to be the case do us all a favor, move to Iran and start loitering around mosques telling everybody who walks by what an a-hole Mohammed was.

This certainly has to be against message board standards according to what Mary said about my post earlier.

By the way, discussing how Carlisle is a control freak and calling all the plays like he has done in the past and showing links to show players talking about it, is very much about this thread, but I know your point was to find a way to twist it into something else.

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Real simple. I was backing up my point about Carlisle known to call all the plays for his team. Which is what this thread is about.

I then went on to show how he says one thing to people, then changes things up later. I provided the link to show how this has happened in the past. If I did not post the link, then someone like yourself would have accused me of making up things.

Lastly, I remember someone pointing out that Avery threw his team under the bus along with attacking the leadership of the team. So, I went about posting a link where Carlisle did the same exact thing. Case in point, that I dont feel we got a coach that is Mr.Change. I think it was long overdue to hand the offense over to Kidd. Which again is what this thread is about.

Actually, if you read this thread you'll notice that it's all about you making an ass of yourself, but believe whatever you want...

Also - you're talking about 2003 Rick Carlisle like he's the same coach as 2008 Rick Carlisle and he's NOT... Do you even watch the games? He's taken a 180 in several aspects of his approach and this recent move with Jason Kidd is further evidence of that (which is what this thread was REALLY about until you made it all about you...)

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

My understanding from the news reports at the beginning of the season was that Carlisle if anything gave the team a little too much freedom early on, and then when things started out poorly added some structure, so I'm not sure that it really is a fair criticism. If you want to question whether this move couldn't have been made a month ago, I think that's more reasonable, IMO.

I wonder if Josh's inability to get healthy might not have impacted the timing to some extent, though. The team had to go through a fairly long period of learning to play without him, and then had to adjust to having him back in the lineup briefly only to lose him again before his latest return. It's not an unprecedented challenge for an NBA team to face by any means, and I don't intend it as an excuse, but you have to believe Josh's struggles with his health have not been overlooked by the coaching staff.

Question for you. Could you send me a link to the reports that said that Carlisle gave the team too much freedom on offense at the start of the season by giving Kidd the play calling duties, then added structure to help the offense by taking over the play-calling? I was under the impression the players said "They estimate that Carlisle called 70 to 80 percent of the plays in the first three months of the season and Kidd took the rest.

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Question for you. Could you send me a link to the reports that said that Carlisle gave the team too much freedom on offense at the start, then added structure to help the offense? I was under the impression the players said "They estimate that Carlisle called 70 to 80 percent of the plays in the first three months of the season and Kidd took the rest.

Are you serious? You claim to follow this team, go to the home games, and you don't realize they're running a completely different offense than they did in the first 10 (or so) games of the season? And you haven't read any of the articles discussing the fact that the team largely abandoned the motion offense in favor of the pick and roll scentric offense?

Shocking.

Maybe someone else will provide links. But after all, they'll just be links from "writers". I thought you didn't believe them.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Are you serious? You claim to follow this team, go to the home games, and you don't realize they're running a completely different offense than they did in the first 10 (or so) games of the season? And you haven't read any of the articles discussing the fact that the team largely abandoned the motion offense in favor of the pick and roll scentric offense?

Shocking.

Maybe someone else will provide links. But after all, they'll just be links from "writers". I thought you didn't believe them.

There you go with the perfect twists. I said nothing about offense. I asked about the free rein that he gave the Kidd and the Mavs and had to scrape it in favor of a more controled offense from Carlisle calling plays. Key point again is Carlisle calling the plays. Like I posted a few minutes ago, I read where several players said Carlisle called 70-80% of the plays for the first 3 months of the season. Case in point this thread is about who is calling all the plays. Stop talking about the type of offense, this thread is about who is calling the plays.

Direct Link to what we were discussing: http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=245

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Stop talking about the type of offense, this thread is about who is calling the plays.

You don't see ANY connection between "type of offense" and "who is running plays"???

Now you're being disagreeable simply for the sake of being disagreeable...

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You don't see ANY connection between "type of offense" and "who is running plays"???

Now you're being disagreeable simply for the sake of being disagreeable...

Once again learn to read. We all were talking about who was doing the play calling and JHig started talking about how I dont watch the game and that the Mavs are running a whole different offense. So, I am telling him and you, that we were NOT discussing the type of offense, we were discussing who is the play caller. Now twist it up some more like you usually do.

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 06:23 PM

You're the WINNER of the thread - congratulations!

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

There you go with the perfect twists. I said nothing about offense. I asked about the free rein that he gave the Kidd and the Mavs and had to scrape it in favor of a more controled offense from Carlisle calling plays. Key point again is Carlisle calling the plays. Like I posted a few minutes ago, I read where several players said Carlisle called 70-80% of the plays for the first 3 months of the season. Case in point this thread is about who is calling all the plays. Stop talking about the type of offense, this thread is about who is calling the plays.

Direct Link to what we were discussing: http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=245

As anyone that really follows this team would know, the key point of the motion offense was that there were no plays. (Or at least that's what they said, I'm sure they did actually have some.)

So if Carlisle installs of offense built on his players reading and reacting to the play on the court, and does not implement any (or maybe very few) set plays at all.....how many plays we he calling? And was he being controlling?

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As anyone that really follows this team would know, the key point of the motion offense was that there were no plays. (Or at least that's what they said, I'm sure they did actually have some.)

So if Carlisle installs of offense built on his players reading and reacting to the play on the court, and does not implement any (or maybe very few) set plays at all.....how many plays we he calling? And was he being controlling?

Where did you read that they were not calling plays? Who told you that motion offense does not have play calling? Then to top it off, you state that anyone who follows the team knows that motion offense means no play calling.

It is real simple: Several players confirmed that Carlise was calling about 70-80% of the plays the first 3 months of the season. How hard is that to understand? And again, who told you that motion offense has no play calling? Motion offense for the most part have a loose set of rules in freestyle form, but you can best believe that many times down the floor play calls with the motion offense is made.

Sportstudi · 02-02-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

You believe that?

It is true. Btw, I am a sports journalist and if I lie on purpose and the people find out, probably I will get fired.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

It is true. Btw, I am a sports journalist and if I lie on purpose and the people find out, probably I will get fired.

Oh, I see "probably". There is an exception to it

. Yep, it is the grey area with responsible journalism.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 06:49 PM

This is so flippin' ridiculous, I'm really glad I didn't have to keep up with 3-4 pages of this all day.

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Where did you read that they were not calling plays? Who told you that motion offense does not have play calling? Then to top it off, you state that anyone who follows the team knows that motion offense means no play calling.

It is real simple: Several players confirmed that Carlise was calling about 70-80% of the plays the first 3 months of the season. How hard is that to understand? And again, who told you that motion offense has no play calling?

As I said, I don't really believe the notion that they had "no" plays. But the entire point of the motion offense is to give the players the ability to read the defense and reaction rather than to call set plays and run them.

Quote:

This won't be the paint-by-the-numbers offense you have grown accustomed to watching over the last few seasons. It is more Monet than methodical. It relies on creativity over calculation.
Carlisle concedes even he is intrigued to see what form the offense takes beginning tonight.
"Well, we're not running the triangle," Carlisle said. "Maybe I'd call it a rectangle. I don't know what I'd call it.
"But we don't have many sets in. We're going to be playing mostly out of movement."

The offense under Avery Johnson was more structured. He would call the play, put his team in position to exploit a mismatch then attack. It was about discipline and imposing the Mavericks' will on the defense.
The idea under Carlisle will be for players to read the defense and react. There will be more motion in the form of backdoor cuts and pick-and-rolls. Fewer plays will be called.

"We have no half-court sets," guard Jason Terry said. "There is a base and a method to our madness, but it's all creative madness.
"It's a little bit of the Princeton offense. A little bit of run and gun. Can you call it the West Coast offense of basketball? I don't know."

Link

There were also numerous radio/tv interviews in which Kidd, Dirk and Jet mentioned the lack of set plays, the lack of offensive sets, and the fluidity of the new offense.

It's weird posting all of this as if you didn't know this happened. This board discussed these points ad nauseum during training camp.

So, to sum up: I'm not saying Carlisle didn't ever call plays in the early part of the season. But he spent the offseason and training camp devising and and installing an offense that was meant to limit his input on the offense, and to empower the players to play and react to what they saw on the floor.

That is the epitome of someone willing to release his control on the offense. And it didn't work, so he started adding more and more sets and plays, and calling them.

Now that everyone is comfortable with them and they have some data to study what has worked the best and what hasn't, he's once again empowering his players (Kidd specifically) to make more decisions on the court about how the offense runs.

I don't understand what's not to like here, and I don't understand trying to take away from the flexibility Carlisle is showing here.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As I said, I don't really believe the notion that they had "no" plays. But the entire point of the motion offense is to give the players the ability to read the defense and reaction rather than to call set plays and run them.

Link

There were also numerous radio/tv interviews in which Kidd, Dirk and Jet mentioned the lack of set plays, the lack of offensive sets, and the fluidity of the new offense.

It's weird posting all of this as if you didn't know this happened. This board discussed these points ad nauseum during training camp.

So, to sum up: I'm not saying Carlisle didn't ever call plays in the early part of the season. But he spent the offseason and training camp devising and and installing an offense that was meant to limit his input on the offense, and to empower the players to play and react to what they saw on the floor.

That is the epitome of someone willing to release his control on the offense. And it didn't work, so we started adding more and more sets and plays, and calling them.

Now that everyone is comfortable with them and they have some data to study what has worked the best and what hasn't, he's once again empowering his players (Kidd specifically) to make more decisions on the court about how the offense runs.

I don't understand what's not to like here, and I don't understand trying to take away from the flexibility Carlisle is showing here.

I believe I had this thought process, at least similar to it, quite a while ago.

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's weird posting all of this as if you didn't know this happened. This board discussed these points ad nauseum

There's "reality" and then there's "XpertLand"...

Sportstudi · 02-02-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Oh, I see "probably". There is an exception to it

. Yep, it is the grey area with responsible journalism.

You know what I meant. Of course, if you lie, you lie. It's always on purpose. Just added the word to underline the importance. An about probably: You should get fired if you lie and work for any serious media. And I'm sure I would get fired if I do such things and my boss doesn't get crazy overnight. But I will now stop answering to you concerning this topic, 'cause it seems to be senseless.

About the real topic of this thread: Today will be a good test if the system works.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As I said, I don't really believe the notion that they had "no" plays. But the entire point of the motion offense is to give the players the ability to read the defense and reaction rather than to call set plays and run them.

Link

There were also numerous radio/tv interviews in which Kidd, Dirk and Jet mentioned the lack of set plays, the lack of offensive sets, and the fluidity of the new offense.

It's weird posting all of this as if you didn't know this happened. This board discussed these points ad nauseum during training camp.

So, to sum up: I'm not saying Carlisle didn't ever call plays in the early part of the season. But he spent the offseason and training camp devising and and installing an offense that was meant to limit his input on the offense, and to empower the players to play and react to what they saw on the floor.

That is the epitome of someone willing to release his control on the offense. And it didn't work, so he started adding more and more sets and plays, and calling them.

Now that everyone is comfortable with them and they have some data to study what has worked the best and what hasn't, he's once again empowering his players (Kidd specifically) to make more decisions on the court about how the offense runs.

I don't understand what's not to like here, and I don't understand trying to take away from the flexibility Carlisle is showing here.

Lets assume you did not say there were no plays

. I like the fact that Carlisle gave up the freak control of calling 80% of the plays for the first 3 months. I made a remark after the Avery bashing. Avery has nothing to do with the control freak giving up the play-calling to Kidd like he said he was going to do from Day 1. I did not call anyone a name or attack them. I simply stated my point after the Sports journalist guy attacked Avery when in fact we should have all been amazed that Carlisle was calling 80% of the plays.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

There's "reality" and then there's "XpertLand"...

Once again, there goes the name-calling. It just wont stop. Now lets see if someone finds a way to excuse him for it and say I had it coming.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Once again, there goes the name-calling. It just wont stop. Now lets see if someone finds a way to excuse him for it and say I had it coming.

Isn't it hypocritical to even a slight extent to say there we go with the name calling when I've seen you multiple time call people names and tell people to "shut the hell up?"

Again like I asked...wouldn't you want to just take the high road and be done with it?

Underdog · 02-02-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Again like I asked...wouldn't you want to just take the high road and be done with it?

You're assuming that he had a point in the first place...

(I mean - he claims to, but it changes every time he spins the argument...)

jthig32 · 02-02-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Lets assume you did not say there were no plays

. I like the fact that Carlisle gave up the freak control of calling 80% of the plays for the first 3 months. I made a remark after the Avery bashing. Avery has nothing to do with the control freak giving up the play-calling to Kidd like he said he was going to do from Day 1. I did not call anyone a name or attack them. I simply stated my point after the Sports journalist guy attacked Avery when in fact we should have all been amazed that Carlisle was calling 80% of the plays.

What is it you like to say? "Learn to read"?

Quote:

As anyone that really follows this team would know, the key point of the motion offense was that there were no plays. (Or at least that's what they said, I'm sure they did actually have some.)

And as I've just laid out, how was Carlisle calling 80% of the plays if there were no plays? Your buddy Jet says there were no plays; must be true.