J.J Barea Coming Back Next Season - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Rick41 · 05-13-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I would put Barea as the top 10 weakest backup point guards.

Because you're ignorant. LDub hit the nail
on the head.

mavsfan1000 · 05-13-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Because you're ignorant. LDub hit the nail
on the head.

A good way to measure that is by looking at his plus/minus. He is -6.7 in that category and his playoffs didn't help his cause in that category. He is easily one of the worst top 10 backup point guards in the league . Now he might be one of the best 3rd string backup point guards in the league if used that way.

Rick41 · 05-13-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

A good way to measure that is by looking at his plus/minus. He is -6.7 in that category and his playoffs didn't help his cause in that category. He is easily one of the worst top 10 backup point guards in the league . Now he might be one of the best 3rd string backup point guards in the league if used that way.

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap. You're getting dumber and dumber by the post...

grndmstr_c · 05-13-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap.

You should, but not the way that mf1000 is using it. The problem is that even most supporters of JJB feel he's been relied on too much and overexposed, and has consequently been less effective on a value-per-minute basis than he would be if he were limited to being a 10-12 mpg backup point guard. Pointing out that his +/- was lagging is hardly an effective counter to that perspective.

ribosoma · 05-13-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You should, but not the way that mf1000 is using it. The problem is that even most supporters of JJB feel he's been relied on too much and overexposed, and has consequently been less effective on a value-per-minute basis than he would be if he were limited to being a 10-12 mpg backup point guard. Pointing out that his +/- was lagging is hardly an effective counter to that perspective.

I agree. Just keep in mind who that cherry-picked stat is coming from. Just wait until Roddy has a few bad games, and he will turn on him, as well. Then there will be nobody in the Mavs organization who doesn't suck to him. It's the NBA2K10 basketball genius at work, knee-jerking his square logic into the round hole of reality.

mavsfan1000 · 05-13-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap. You're getting dumber and dumber by the post...

You don't believe in plus/minus? There is no other better stat out there than that. It shows if a player is hurting the team or not. You can still put up points/rebounds/assists and still be hurting a teams rhythm. It also hints at on how the other team is maybe helping your stats by guarding everyone else better. So many different factors that don't show up in the box score on why you are hurting or helping the team being out there. Also all point guards can see over Barea and make their offense work better. Barea likes to hold the ball too long and runs the shot clock out. Barea won't get you many fastbreak points. That is why I think his plus/minus is so bad. It's not just a coincidence.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-13-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

You don't believe in plus/minus? There is no other better stat out there than that. It shows if a player is hurting the team or not.

This isn't baseball where all the batting averages are independent. Every basket scored affects five different +/- stats at the same time.

If two guys play the same minutes together on the court, they will have the same +/- stat no matter how much better one player is than the other. So no, it has its limits and is not the best stat out there.

badfish22 · 05-13-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Every basket scored affects five different +/- stats at the same time.

If two guys play the same minutes together on the court, they will have the same +/- stat no matter how much better one player is than the other.

So you think it is just a coincidence? serious question.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-14-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

So you think it is just a coincidence? serious question.

I think you are missing the point he was trying to make. +/- stats get skewed not only by the players that they tend to play with, but the players that the opponent tend have in the game while they are playing.

For example, Kyle Lowry is the Rocket's leader in +/- stats. Why? Because he played alongside Landry from the bench and he got to play the bench of the other team.

What was the Rocket's best lineup? Brooks and Lowry together. Why? Because Houston would go to this lineup whenever a team tried to small-ball the Rockets. This worked into Houston's hands as the Rockets didn't have any legit centers.

My point here is that +/- is much more complicated than people make it out to be and it doesn't reveal the whole story. You often have to dig deeper...