One example of why I don't trust the media

[92bDad]

Look say what you will about our respective political views and our various opinions about what is the cause and effect of an election, but it is clear to me that the Media has and is playing a serious role in shaping modern America.

Here is an example of where the AP and then various media outlets ran crazy with a story on Sarah Palin...only when you read the truth behind the story, it's clear that there was nothing to report without butchering a quote.

Here it is...

____________________________________________

Sarah Palin: Snakecharmer
09.04.2008 20:58:39 « Back




The media is trying REALLY hard to paint Sarah Palin into an evil religious zealot. The AP is willing to break the typically utilized laws of printing the English language to do it.

According to the AP, Sarah Palin said this about the troops while at church:

“Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,"

According to real life, Sarah Palin said this about the troops while at church (with the AP’s selective quoting underlined):

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God,”

The AP quote means “Iraq is a mission from God.”

The actual quote means “We pray Iraq is a mission from God.”

The headline is even more misleading.

Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'

The AP not only doesn't mention the previous sentence, or the first part of the sentence they quote, they also essentially ignore the meaning of the very next sentence as well. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

This is a statement of humble reflection from Palin. To translate into terms the media might understand, its "I hope we're doing the right thing."

This story is bad enough that the AP really should issue a correction on it, if not a full retraction. There's no story unless you butcher the quote. It's based on half (or a quarter) of a quote, mentally ignoring the previous and following sentences, and even presenting the trimmed quote as the start of a sentence --forcing them to capitalize a word that actually appeared in the middle of the sentence.

Really bad.


__________________________________________________ _________

I am certain we can find 100's and 1000's of similar types of spin stories, all with a major leftist agenda to smear Sarah Palin and the Republican ticket.

The sad part is that many American fall for this...heck, I tried to defend the quotes, simply stating that this was taken out of context, but I had nothing to reference.

I know, this is old news...get over it, is what some of you are thinking.

This post is not about the election...it's a done deal and nothing is going to change this.

However, my hope is to continue sharing the truth about the Media Manipulation. It's happening and it simply can't be trusted carte blanche.

We must find ways to communicate about issues and candidates...using forums such as this message board to ask questions and get to the heart of these issues so that we as citizens can create positive change for this nation.

Allowing the media to manipulate stories does not do any of us any good.

The secret is that it will take strong liberals to call out their own...while conservatives need to do the same back to conservative sources. Make sure the facts are genuine and not a spin campaign.

Perhaps that is how we can help via this board.

What if we, the people became genuine watchdogs? Perhaps we can share opinion regardless of political affiliation and we can do some fact checking...then we can contact the news agency responsible as concerned citizens.

The media has done an excellent job of smearing Sarah Palin as well as the Bush administration for the past 8 years. No doubt that some bloggers and other Cyber writers will do their fair share of attacking the Obama campaign...while the media will serve to protect Obama...

So what can we do to balance the spin with Truth?

Regardless of National Media or a Blogger, we need to call out when we see manipulation such as in the story of Sarah Palin. I would argue the same if the story where about Obama...I will argue for him if I see such a twist in the future.

[rmacomic]

What media outlet do you work for? because I don't trust you.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

What media outlet do you work for? because I don't trust you.

I work for the "Voice of the People" where we aim to bring "Power to the People"

You migh say we are the "Brotherhood of Truth"

We are paid by no-one, we are simply a grass roots community organization working to ensure that the people are not manipulated by "The Man"

Perhaps together, we can honestly distrust each other and challenge each other to dig under the rocks and communicate the truth behind the lies we are being told.

Conservative and Liberal lies...either way, it's clouding our own ability to communicate and sort through the issues.

I'm glad to see that you are on board and able to seek out the truth...I am honored that we can be brothers in the same fight.

The Truth shall set you free!!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I work for the "Voice of the People" where we aim to bring "Power to the People"

You migh say we are the "Brotherhood of Truth"

We are paid by no-one, we are simply a grass roots community organization working to ensure that the people are not manipulated by "The Man"

Perhaps together, we can honestly distrust each other and challenge each other to dig under the rocks and communicate the truth behind the lies we are being told.

Conservative and Liberal lies...either way, it's clouding our own ability to communicate and sort through the issues.

I'm glad to see that you are on board and able to seek out the truth...I am honored that we can be brothers in the same fight.

The Truth shall set you free!!!

You sure do use a lot of media buzzwords and catchphrases for a guy who hates the media...

[dude1394]

Whop up on the messenger. Even the media knows they are biased.

[92bDad]

Here's an interesting link that also speaks to how the media has manipulated America.

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

The subject is not the people...they are all rather intelligent, however the media has a significant responsibility in how they share the news. When it is no longer news, but rather an agenda, then it becomes Propoganda.

Don't get me wrong it's not 100% of the media...however there is a significant number of media personnel responsible for spinning opinions with no facts and doing it in such a way that can confuse otherwise rather bright citizens.

Television Media has turned into a National Enquirer and thus has very little to any credibility...yet we continue to debate what they report.

The media makes me think of an Abusive Spouse, Parent or otherwise Abusive individual who uses passive agressive tactics to control the victims. Often times the victims don't realize they are being abused until it is too late. The abuse doesn't stop until the victim is either dead or stands up and challenges the abuser...who will either stop the behavior or kill the victim.

It is time to stop the abuser, it is time to stand up the media and demand that they stop spinning the reports. It is time to demand that they provide the information without their own opinions.

Then it is time for us as a people to listen to the information and to stop acting like victims...you know like that abused spouse who "Loves" the abuser and is not willing to separate themselves from the abuser.

Take Step 1 of the 12 steps to recovery...then perhaps we as a people and as a nation can create positive change. Until we do, we will continue to be victims, regardless of admitting it or not.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Here's an interesting link that also speaks to how the media has manipulated America.

Um, the Media partially created America... We didn't openly revolt against England until the Stamp Act unfairly taxed printed media and raised the ire of several newspaper owners (Benjamin Franklin, William Brooker, Benjamin Harrison I) who eventually went on to become members of the Sons of Liberty...

So when you say they "manipulated America," you have to go all the way back to the beginning and take the good with the bad...

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Um, the Media partially created America... We didn't openly revolt against England until the Stamp Act unfairly taxed printed media and raised the ire of several newspaper owners (Benjamin Franklin, William Brooker, Benjamin Harrison I) who eventually went on to become members of the Sons of Liberty...

So when you say they "manipulated America," you have to go all the way back to the beginning and take the good with the bad...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not make a statement that not 100% of the media is to blame?

In other words I am taking the good with the bad. However it doesn't mean that we have to rollover and get bummed from the bad, we can actually stand up as a community and challenge the status quo to make a difference and change.

Isn't that what Obama wants, is a community to use its power as a people to create change.

I just happen to believe we can make an impact as a community and Change the way our media is providing information.

One of the perhaps unwritten rules of a journalist is to ask what you want the story to say. Should we not ask the reporters to tell the story the way it is and let the story tell its story?

Think about the situation in Iraq.

Was there not a ton of bad news coming out for several years and blame being cast on the Bush administration for a failed or wrong war?

Yet, over the past several months, we have seen some huge success in Iraq go UNder reported or perhaps even UNreported. Why is this?

Is it perhaps because the story would actually bring praise on the Bush Administration???

We have succeeded in Fulluja (SP?) - We have American troops coming home under the Bush Administration and because of the success.

Is the Media waiting for Obama to take office, since that will be about the time that the troops are indeed home and coming home? Are they waiting so they can pin 'Success' on Obama when he has done NOTHING for this war?

The media has an overwhelming majority of liberal interests and they admit it. I'm not sure what we have to do to change the media...but surely speaking out is one of our first options.

Of course I have two sons, conservative minded and both taking a look at going into journalism as a career...so perhaps that's the answer, it's time to Breed the liberal out :-)

Sure we joke, we vent, we attack one another...it's all entertaining on these boards...how do we take our little group and generate power to change?

If one vote is powerful, how powerful can the voices of this board become?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not make a statement that not 100% of the media is to blame?

In other words I am taking the good with the bad. However it doesn't mean that we have to rollover and get bummed from the bad, we can actually stand up as a community and challenge the status quo to make a difference and change.

Isn't that what Obama wants, is a community to use its power as a people to create change.

I just happen to believe we can make an impact as a community and Change the way our media is providing information.

One of the perhaps unwritten rules of a journalist is to ask what you want the story to say. Should we not ask the reporters to tell the story the way it is and let the story tell its story?

Think about the situation in Iraq.

Was there not a ton of bad news coming out for several years and blame being cast on the Bush administration for a failed or wrong war?

Yet, over the past several months, we have seen some huge success in Iraq go UNder reported or perhaps even UNreported. Why is this?

Is it perhaps because the story would actually bring praise on the Bush Administration???

We have succeeded in Fulluja (SP?) - We have American troops coming home under the Bush Administration and because of the success.

Is the Media waiting for Obama to take office, since that will be about the time that the troops are indeed home and coming home? Are they waiting so they can pin 'Success' on Obama when he has done NOTHING for this war?

The media has an overwhelming majority of liberal interests and they admit it. I'm not sure what we have to do to change the media...but surely speaking out is one of our first options.

Of course I have two sons, conservative minded and both taking a look at going into journalism as a career...so perhaps that's the answer, it's time to Breed the liberal out :-)

Sure we joke, we vent, we attack one another...it's all entertaining on these boards...how do we take our little group and generate power to change?

If one vote is powerful, how powerful can the voices of this board become?

Why do you bring partisan politics into everything???

Liberals think the media is too conservative and conservatives think the media is too liberal... You know what - they're both right!

Media is a business just like any other industry - they go where the money is (and that's no secret...)

The US media was 100% pro-Bush in the aftermath of 9/11 because it made them money... They were anti-Bush once people got tired of the war in Iraq because it made them money... They're pro-Obama now because it makes them money... They'd eat your children if it would make them money - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MAJOR CORPORATION IN AMERICA (after all - corporations don't become "major" without stepping on a few toes...)


This ain't news - it's been going on forever (sounds more like sour grapes to me...)

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why do you bring partisan politics into everything???

Liberals think the media is too conservative and conservatives think the media is too liberal... You know what - they're both right!

Media is a business just like any other industry - they go where the money is (and that's no secret...)

The US media was 100% pro-Bush in the aftermath of 9/11 because it made them money... They were anti-Bush once people got tired of the war in Iraq because it made them money... They're pro-Obama now because it makes them money... They'd eat your children if it would make them money - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MAJOR CORPORATION IN AMERICA (after all - corporations don't become "major" without stepping on a few toes...)


This ain't news - it's been going on forever (sounds more like sour grapes to me...)

Just a question?

Is the Media just a corporation which is out to make money, and doesn't really have to report truth?

If it is, then would it be unheard of for the big business of Pro Sports to "manipulate" games in a way that would make them more money?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Just a question?

Is the Media just a corporation which is out to make money, and doesn't really have to report truth?

If it is, then would it be unheard of for the big business of Pro Sports to "manipulate" games in a way that would make them more money?

The "truth" is subjective in a world where one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist...

The media will always support those who benefit them the most...


But if you want to argue morality and ideals, then I'm right there with you - the news should always be unbiased (but it never has been...)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why do you bring partisan politics into everything???

Liberals think the media is too conservative and conservatives think the media is too liberal... You know what - they're both right!

Media is a business just like any other industry - they go where the money is (and that's no secret...)

The US media was 100% pro-Bush in the aftermath of 9/11 because it made them money... They were anti-Bush once people got tired of the war in Iraq because it made them money... They're pro-Obama now because it makes them money... They'd eat your children if it would make them money - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MAJOR CORPORATION IN AMERICA (after all - corporations don't become "major" without stepping on a few toes...)


This ain't news - it's been going on forever (sounds more like sour grapes to me...)

So what is your thought...

Should we just sit back and let them do whatever they want?

Sure there are stories from both sides that are slanted in their respective directions.

So what are some brainstorm ideas of things that we as citizens can do to point out the inconsistancies and spin being reported by various agencies.

It's clear that Talk Radio is DOMINATED by Conservative talk...while it's also clear that TV NEWS is Dominated by Liberal Views.

Where are the stations radio, tv, newspaper, magazine that are true to the stories?

Who are they and what is the data that supports them reporting the news and staying out of opinion pieces?

We are currently inundated with reports...it's an Information Orgy and guess what, we are all catching Cyber Aids due to the mass amount of mis-information.

Here's an example of what words can do:

Decribing an individual:

John Smith is a fearless leader of men. He is a Special Forces Squad leader. His team has successfully accomplished numerous missions, destroying enemy targets. John Smith has been awarded the Medal of Honor for his heroic actions in combat.

What image does this description conjur up?

Now a second description of the same individual:

Johns Smith is a dedicated husband and father of 3. He is a humble man, who loves his family and shows great loyalty to them. Last week he served in his local church's outreach, by feeding some homeless people in his community. He is a very gentle sould, often times being the ear that listens to the kids in the neighborhood.


What image does this description conjur up?


Both are descriptions of the same person...the name was changed to protect the innocent...

The bottom line, is that the media can utilize perhaps one of, if not the most powerful tool known to man. Words. Words can be arranged and rearranged to tell whatever story the storyteller wants you to see and hear.

We can see, with the past 8 years and this recent election, that the media has done a great job of using words to create hate towards one party and anyone involved with that party, while also building up the other with no challenge.

Now I do NOT know the solution, but I recognize the problem.

Allthough this type of journalism does a great service to the "Liberal" side of politics...I can't say that it does much of any service to the people of this country.

On the same note, I don't want to see a pro-conservative bias/spin of reporting.

There must be a ground based on Truth. This is not Middle ground, but a foundation which all people can then debate the issues for what they are and not what they are perceived to be.

So again, I ask...what are some ideas that you have to propose, good or bad that we can list off and discuss to nail down some concrete plans on how we can change the way the Media operates?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

So what is your thought...

Should we just sit back and let them do whatever they want?

Just turn off your television/radio - stop justifying their existence...

Get your news through the written word - it's easier to cut through the slant and get the "facts," then come to your own conclusion about a story...

Stop believing everything you're told and start thinking for yourself!


(questioning the media is a step in the right direction...)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Just turn off your television/radio - stop justifying their existence...

Get your news through the written word - it's easier to cut through the slant and get the "facts," then come to your own conclusion about a story...

Stop believing everything you're told and start thinking for yourself!


(questioning the media is a step in the right direction...)

Fair enough...so how do we have a discussion about what is said in a program if that program was not actually observed?

In otherwords if I am in a debate/discussion about something said on a specific network because one individual saw it and referenced it, but I did not see this...how can I speak to that point?

It's difficult for me to whine about any network specifically without watching and understanding what I am whining about.

Heck, I'm as guilty as anyone in getting spun into a frenzy.

On that note, the printed word is also easily twisted to say what the writer wants to say. How do we find out what is included in a story and what is left out?

It's as if we've become a Headline society that rolls with the tide of the latest talking point, however we don't appear to be willing to dig in and get to the bottom of a topic.

Again, I am guilty...bot I'm tired of being an equal part of the problem...I want to find a way to resolve issues and again be a voice.

I know I'm a bit looney...I've proven that point beyond debate over the past few months...but nobody can question my love and loyalty for this nation. I'm trying to find a way that I can do what I do, and then add to what I do to help effect a positive change.

It's one thing for the Mavs to win or lose...it's quite another if apathy allowes this nation to lose.

There are a ton of issues...there are a ton of view points...but this is not about the politicians. This is about one issue that ultimately effects our politics and our lives as a people of the United States. The Power of the Media is a great issue and we can't just slap a band aid on it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Fair enough...so how do we have a discussion about what is said in a program if that program was not actually observed?

You don't discuss it - you ignore it (otherwise you enable it...)


"Do not participate in that which you deem evil." -Gandhi

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You don't discuss it - you ignore it (otherwise you enable it...)


"Do not participate in that which you deem evil." -Gandhi

I disagree...just because you ignore something doesn't mean it will go away.

I can ignore individual discussions, I can close myself off from media information and then I live in my own cacoon...that doesn't mean that the media and the propoganda in any direction is gone.


Here is a harsh example...and I apologize ahead of time...this is an example of abuse in a family.

When a parent is abusing a child and the other parent ignores the existance of the abuse...does it go away? On the contrary, either the child has to get old enough to handle the situation first hand, or the other parent has to step in and fight for the child...the abuser will go on doing whatever they do.

An initial confrontation with the abuser at least puts them on notice.

But similar to Iraq, we must have a strategy...put the media on notice and then an action plan to hold the media accountable.

Are we to remain victims of media abuse? Or are we willing to stand up and say enough is enough.

We want freedom of press...but we also want responsible journalism.

You are correct, that the media is a business out to make money and thus in need of ratings to generate advertising dollars. Unfortunately, the NEWS is NOT entertaining enough to hold a large enough audience to garner ratings which generate huge advertising dollars/profits. So the various outlets spice it up.

They each pander to a base core group...a demographic if you will.

What are some items that we the people can do as an action?

Of course writing campaigns...this requires us as a people to actually get active in the process. We can write several places...politicians, news outlets...and of course the companies that advertise on the various stations and other media outlets.

But for that to be effective we need to build a large base and we need people willing to write, in their own words, their concerns. Thus we need to band together with various communities...I suppose that is what we call a community organizer.

What are some ways to go about doing these things...what are some other ideas...I'm looking to brainstorm.

We had ACORN...perhaps we can start a group called TORN (Truth Organizers for Responsible NEWS)

Not only could they help to get the message out to those who report, but they could grow and help to not only register voters, but perhaps even educate voters.

Grassroots - Provide information on candidates and issues that has actually been fact checked. Information on all candidates and all issues. Not promoting one over another...but simply reporting the facts. The Campaign points of the various candidates (Promises they are making) as well as the historical records of what they have actually done or not done.

I could see this type of community organization becoming a huge influence as they help to set the "Spin" of news straight by reporting the facts as they are.

Think back to the report on Palin and her now infamous Church quote that makes it appear as though she believes this is a God Calling Us to War...when the facts are quite the opposite, provided you have the complete quote.

I am certain we can find some gross misrepresentation of Obama and it would be TORN's job to set the record straight.

What do you think...are there any people out there interested or willing to take such a project on?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I disagree...just because you ignore something doesn't mean it will go away.

You're 100% wrong in this case...

An abused child can't "turn off" the problem, but a person watching television most certainly can... A better comparison would be a drug addict - one might believe themselves to be powerless, but the choice is still up to them...

If you think the media is corrupt, then stop supporting them - you're justifying their existence...

[Big Boy Laroux]

Underdog is right, it's all about what sells papers/magazines/commercial airtime/ad space/etc. Give the news some bias without distorting facts.

Good luck trying to change the world, 92dad.


And for the record, I have no idea what you're trying to say in your first post. Palin was saying that the mission into Iraq was a mission from God - it even comes through in the direct quote.

[mary]

If I could dip my liberal toe in this discussion, I think people complain about the media way too much - its such a default argument these days. If a majority of Americans are ignorant about certain events or situations, I don't think you can blame the media. Its such a cop out. Most people are fairly indifferent towards politics, and therefore not very knowledgeable about political affairs.

So media outlets are biased - so what. Underdog has the right idea. If people are unhappy with the New York Times, they should stop buying it...stop contributing to its readership..and stop contributing to its ability to fund itself through advertising.

If people are unhappy with Fox News or CNN, then stop watching them. They wouldn't thrive without ratings.

Personally, I LOVE Fox News. I either watch or listen to it every day. I love watching Sean Hannity make a 60 minute show out of kicking Alan Colmbs in the crotch....and I don't even like Sean Hannity. I KNOW Hannity is a schill for the far right wingers, just like I KNOW Colmbs is there to be kicked in the crotch.

I think the bigger problem is not the media, but people's complete willingness to accept any and all information that supports their existing world view, and reject any information that contradicts it.

That's your problem.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Underdog is right, it's all about what sells papers/magazines/commercial airtime/ad space/etc. Give the news some bias without distorting facts.

Good luck trying to change the world, 92dad.


And for the record, I have no idea what you're trying to say in your first post. Palin was saying that the mission into Iraq was a mission from God - it even comes through in the direct quote.

Here's the quote:

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God,”


Now as I read and reread the quote, I understand that she is praying that the Mission is indeed from God. That is a very common Prayer. Praying that our choices are in line with God's.

The idea behind it, that if it's not the consequences are not pretty.

Nowhere, does she make a statement or claim that the mission IS from God, but rather praying and requesting that it actually is.

Those are two completely different view points.

The quote taken spun a way that contradicts what Palin actually said. Technically accurate in that it used her words, but with only a partial context.

That's like taking the following quote: "I Killed Her"

My first thougt is that somebody was murdered, call the police...but when you dig further the full statement was:

I left town on vacation and I forgot to make arrangements for someone to come take care of my prized Rose bush. I killed her. It's my fault... I killed her.

For what it's worth, I have a very jaded view of the media because of personal experience...I have been interviewed for a news program...when I viewed the airing of the program, they had spliced the interview to take answers I made about some questions and pasted them as responses to other questions. I was furious, but here was NOTHING I could do.

On the other side...it's as if people care more about their entertainment than they do about their actual lives.

Ignoring problems is simply a sad state of denial and it appears that we have grown rather apathetic in this nation.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Ignoring problems is simply a sad state of denial and it appears that we have grown rather apathetic in this nation.

What about fixating on problems that you're powerless to control?

In this case, doing nothing IS an action...

[Big Boy Laroux]

in either quote, she is associating the Iraq war with a "mission from God". Either way, saying it is or HOPING it is, is associating God with the war. This isn't a holy war, and that's what she's insinuating. Hoping that the war is what God wants. God shouldn't be involved at all, period.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

in either quote, she is associating the Iraq war with a "mission from God". Either way, saying it is or HOPING it is, is associating God with the war. This isn't a holy war, and that's what she's insinuating. Hoping that the war is what God wants. God shouldn't be involved at all, period.

The bolded part.................... HUH?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

The bolded part.................... HUH?

I think he means "politically" - Separation of Church & State (after all, this is America, not Rome...)

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

in either quote, she is associating the Iraq war with a "mission from God". Either way, saying it is or HOPING it is, is associating God with the war. This isn't a holy war, and that's what she's insinuating. Hoping that the war is what God wants. God shouldn't be involved at all, period.

It doesn't have to be a holy war to be in line with God's plan or wishes. There is nothing wrong with hoping (praying) that your loved ones that are in harms way are operating under God's will for their lives. And there's certainly nothing wrong with voicing that hope in a freaking church.

The AP story was poorly done.

The rest of 92b's point..whatever. People have biases. Neworks have biases. Deal with it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It doesn't have to be a holy war to be in line with God's plan or wishes. There is nothing wrong with hoping (praying) that your loved ones that are in harms way are operating under God's will for their lives. And there's certainly nothing wrong with voicing that hope in a freaking church.

Which God are you referring to? Some would say that it was God's will to bring down the Twin Towers...

You're treading on a slippery slope professing "God's will" in this country because we don't all believe the same thing (unless you believe that America has it's own god, separate from all others...)

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Which God are you referring to? Some would say that it was God's will to bring down the Twin Towers...

You're treading on a slippery slope professing "God's will" in this country...

For goodness sake, do we really have to do this again? She didn't proclaim it to be, she prayed that it was. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

For goodness sake, do we really have to do this again? She didn't proclaim it to be, she prayed that it was. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Actually, she said "Pray for" (a command) rather than "I pray for" (a statement), but we don't have to go through all this again - people already have their opinions and don't want to be bothered with anyone else's...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Actually, she said "Pray for" (a command) rather than "I pray for" (a statement), but we don't have to go through all this again - people already have their opinions and don't want to be bothered with anyone else's...

"A command"....

Perhaps "a request" would be more in line of someone speaking in a church? And regardless of whether it was a personal statement or a request, it's still nothing more than the vocalization of hope that those in harms way are in God's plan, which to somemone who believes in that sort of thing, means they are safe in the ultimate way.

[Flacolaco]

He wants her to say "We are gathered here before one or more gods or fewer, and I would ask each one of you, if you want to, if not that's fine, to pray that it is Gods will, and by 'Gods'' will I mean the God that I believe in, but if you believe in a different god, then by all means pray to him or her or it, but if not, then you don't have to pray to anyone, just please sit quietly, anyway, that it be God's will that...."

Anything short of that leaves an enormous amount of this stupid nit picking as to what exactly she meant by each word that she said...

[92bDad]

"what is the meaning of is?"

[Big Boy Laroux]

yeah, why didn't she say it like that, Flaco?

And yes, thank you for explaining what I meant, Underdog, even though I thought it was painfully obvious.


And to me, praying for the health and well-being of soldiers in harm's way is different than praying for the act of going to war to be part of God's plan.

[92bDad]

The issue is not specifically Palin's comments but rather how the AP article abused the quote and spun to mis-represent her position.

That is a serious abuse of Journalistic Power and serves to be more filled with Propoganda than news.

The story made it appear as though Palin was stating that this is God's will and that would cause anyone to cringe. How would she know what God's will is...does she have a direct line to Obama?

But seriously, reporting that misrepresents the truth is quite simply a lie. Yet, this type of reporting is very effective. But who does it serve...certainly not the people.

We certainly don't want the government to take over...but what would happen if the people set up a genuine group to monitor and educate the people on what is being reported?

Go back to that link again...http://www.howobamagotelected.com/...these are intelligent people who allowed the media misreresentation to fuel their opinions. Do you want the media to have that much power to stay unchecked?

[Mavdog]

there are so many media outlets it is absurd to attempt to place all of them in the same basket. there is a vast spectrum of viewpoints and credibility to select from.

if you have an issue with people not being smart in their decsions, it is not a beef with the providors of the information, it's an issue with the public's ability to think intelligently.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

yeah, why didn't she say it like that, Flaco?

And yes, thank you for explaining what I meant, Underdog, even though I thought it was painfully obvious.


And to me, praying for the health and well-being of soldiers in harm's way is different than praying for the act of going to war to be part of God's plan.

Not denying that it is different. However, neither is wrong.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

there are so many media outlets it is absurd to attempt to place all of them in the same basket. there is a vast spectrum of viewpoints and credibility to select from.

if you have an issue with people not being smart in their decsions, it is not a beef with the providors of the information, it's an issue with the public's ability to think intelligently.

Nobody is placing them into one basket, and I agree there are many viewpoints, but to sit around and act as if this is not an issue is simply ignoring the source.

Agreed, there are certain levels of variable differences regarding what different people take in from these resources and that is even another issue to tackle.

However one solution is for the People to set up a Community Watchdog if you will. A group to some balance to the News Entertainment Industry where they are kept somewhat accountable and thus provide the people a place they can be comfortable and is credible within as many political circles as possible.

Basically a place where a conservative can call out a news source such as FOX News for making a claim that is a spin with little basis in reality. As a result conservatives would view the challenge with a different take as this peoples watchdog would be viewed as a credible reference to bounce stories through...the same would be for those with a liberal view when they want to challenge a source from CNN or MSNBC...other liberals would view this as a credible source.

As it is today, half the country dismisses the other half and thus very little gets accomplished but a bunch of us whinning about the other side.

Basically a team of people with opposing viewpoints who can take a look at stories as they are released, relay the spin and intent of the story and then provide backing that gives the spin credibility or that truly disputes the story and then gives the real story.

Would conservatives or liberals be afraid of a people organization that verified what is the truth within the media? If we are all about the betterment of American, then why would anyone be afraid of the truth?

___________________________

As for funding such an organization...I like a concept that I hear at my Church...our Pastor is separated from the Church funds...he chooses to be in the dark as to who gives what. He doesn't want to fall victim to treating people differently because of how much they donate to the church.

I would imagine that we could find a safe way to accept funds that will keep the giving folks anonomous to the Organization and to those who move into positions of Community Organizer/Leadership.

_____________________________

Y'all have a great night and week...time for me to head out to Vegas and Seattle, I'll be back for the week-end, just in time for the 9ers game!!! That is if I survive my first ever trip to Seattle...do they let conservative wack jobs like me up in that part of the country?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

However one solution is for the People to set up a Community Watchdog if you will. A group to some balance to the News Entertainment Industry where they are kept somewhat accountable and thus provide the people a place they can be comfortable and is credible within as many political circles as possible.

but who watches the watchdog?

the opposing viewpoints balance each other, and that is a good prescription in of itself.

[DirkFTW]

Zogby Poll

512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

71.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey) Link

Zogby Poll Results

Yes, it all balances each other out, leaving well informed voters.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Zogby Poll Results

Yes, it all balances each other out, leaving well informed voters.

And what are the results for McCain voters?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

And what are the results for McCain voters?

Dunno, Zogby declined a request to poll them. I doubt it's much different though. Mainstream media has failed the nation.