View Poll Results: Who should be next Cowboys Coach??
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Keep Wade Phillips
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4 |
8.51% |
Hire Bill Cowher
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25 |
53.19% |
Hire Jimmy Johnson
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4 |
8.51% |
Promote Jason Garrett to Head Coach
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4 |
8.51% |
Hire someone else(3rd party)
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10 |
21.28% |
11-11-2010, 07:49 PM
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#161
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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I don't buy it and I can't see him being here starting in 2011. We shall see though. If he is it is a damn shame. Not just to me, but 95% of the people that visited this thread.
Whatever though. Those that love him, love him. Those that hate him, hate him. I'm done with the conversation at this point. Everyone here knows my feelings and until the season is over all we are doing is making educated guesses and expressing opinions.
I just hope we lose out so we have the best chance to improve our team for next year. This year is, as pointed out by Johnson, nothing more than a waste.
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11-12-2010, 04:33 AM
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#162
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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This is one of very few issues Dan and I have agreed on but I do agree with him here. Jason Garrett is not a good football coach. Now i wont go quite as far as dan, if he wins the next 8 games then sure, let him stay. But since we arent going to win more than 3 games the rest of the way, thats a moot point.
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11-12-2010, 08:52 AM
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#163
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
This is one of very few issues Dan and I have agreed on but I do agree with him here. Jason Garrett is not a good football coach. Now i wont go quite as far as dan, if he wins the next 8 games then sure, let him stay. But since we arent going to win more than 3 games the rest of the way, thats a moot point.
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You and Chum... Sheesh... Obviously I was joking (I guess not obviously). Even I would have to jump on Ginger's bandwagon if the red fella brought us to the playoffs despite this start. 1-7 to 9-7? Yeah, that would be proof I was severely wrong. But guess what... Not gonna happen.
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11-12-2010, 09:43 AM
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#164
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Golden Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 1,970
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J.J.'s left nut will coach the Cowboys in 2011.
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11-12-2010, 10:27 AM
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#165
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
Even I would have to jump on Ginger's bandwagon if the red fella brought us to the playoffs despite this start. 1-7 to 9-7? Yeah, that would be proof I was severely wrong. But guess what... Not gonna happen.
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And the point is....this is a completely unrealistic criteria by which to judge Garrett over the next 8 games. Would you expect Gruden, or Cowher, or Jimmy Johnson, or a resurrected Vince Lombardi to go 8-0 with this team over the next 8 weeks? I certainly wouldn't, and I wouldn't judge any of those coaches on strictly, or even primarily, a won-loss record over the next 8 games.
The same goes for Garrett -- if your criteria for assessing Garrett's performance over the next 8 games is Ws and Ls, then your criteria is wrong.
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"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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11-12-2010, 10:28 AM
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#166
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsluggo
J.J.'s left nut will coach the Cowboys in 2011.
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we should be so lucky.
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"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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11-12-2010, 10:29 AM
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#167
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
And the point is....this is a completely unrealistic criteria by which to judge Garrett over the next 8 games. Would you expect Gruden, or Cowher, or Jimmy Johnson, or a resurrected Vince Lombardi to go 8-0 with this team over the next 8 weeks? I certainly wouldn't, and I wouldn't judge any of those coaches on strictly, or even primarily, a won-loss record over the next 8 games.
The same goes for Garrett -- if your criteria for assessing Garrett's performance over the next 8 games is Ws and Ls, then your criteria is wrong.
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42-3.
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Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-12-2010 at 10:30 AM.
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11-12-2010, 10:42 AM
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#168
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
42-3.
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The tally of votes in an internet fan forum is an even worse criteria than Ws and Ls....much worse.
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"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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11-12-2010, 10:46 AM
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#169
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
The tally of votes in an internet fan forum is an even worse criteria than Ws and Ls....much worse.
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That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.
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11-12-2010, 10:57 AM
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#170
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.
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Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach, and you won't allow for the possibility that he might be good at it and, if so, that it'd be nice to notice. This is an indefensible position on your part.
If the Cowboys look in games 9-16 much as they looked in games 5-8, then I have no problem with going any direction other than Garrett. That's an easily defensible position.
So...yes, you're wrong and I am right.
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"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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11-12-2010, 11:07 AM
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#171
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach, and you won't allow for the possibility that he might be good at it and, if so, that it'd be nice to notice. This is an indefensible position on your part.
If the Cowboys look in games 9-16 much as they looked in games 5-8, then I have no problem with going any direction other than Garrett. That's an easily defensible position.
So...yes, you're wrong and I am right.
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You are right about one thing. Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach. Period.
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11-12-2010, 11:21 AM
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#172
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.
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Whoa whoa whoa... before this gets out of control, we need to clarify something about the poll ASAP.
My vote was a joke. Ok, carry on.
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Is this ghost ball??
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11-12-2010, 12:35 PM
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#173
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Just outside the Metroplex
Posts: 5,539
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Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Gerald Ford
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Capt. Bob "Wolf" Johnson
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11-12-2010, 12:42 PM
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#174
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmations202
Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.
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Yep, and I answered "Jimmy Johnson" when this poll was posted because he was the only person who might have been able to turn the season around (we were only 1-4 at the time...)
Now that the season's lost and Phillips has been fired, I'd change my answer to "Bill Cowher" - I think he's easily the best coach available (IF he's available...)
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These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 11-12-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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11-12-2010, 12:47 PM
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#175
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmations202
Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.
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Imagine that... Turns out 42-3 was being nice.
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11-12-2010, 01:31 PM
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#176
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.
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__________________
"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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11-12-2010, 01:51 PM
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#177
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
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Man that was a horrible game for him.
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11-12-2010, 01:59 PM
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#178
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.
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11-12-2010, 02:03 PM
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#179
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.
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Is this ghost ball??
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11-12-2010, 02:09 PM
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#180
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkFTW
We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.
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made me laugh. +rep
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-12-2010, 02:12 PM
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#181
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Golden Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Where something amazing has FINALLY happened!!!
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.
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But then you woke up....
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At what point, if a team ALWAYS takes too many jumpshots, do we wonder if it’s a case of dumb students or a case of a bad teacher?
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11-12-2010, 02:13 PM
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#182
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Golden Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Where something amazing has FINALLY happened!!!
Posts: 1,221
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I expect the Giants to rack up almost 500 yards of total offense...
EDIT_ I freakin hate the Giants!...I hate the Yanks!.....I hate the NY Rangers!...and feel sorry for the Knicks
__________________
At what point, if a team ALWAYS takes too many jumpshots, do we wonder if it’s a case of dumb students or a case of a bad teacher?
Last edited by Mav Addict; 11-12-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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11-12-2010, 02:17 PM
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#183
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.
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Well I believe the Giants are going to be without their Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Center. Their backup center was also out for the year. So they are pretty banged up along the offensive line. Steve Smith (who always lights us up) is supposed to be out as well.
This isn't a very healthy team right now so there is always a possibility that the Cowboys could surprise some people on Sunday. It would be nice to see us attempt to slow down Hakeem Nicks this time around.
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"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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11-12-2010, 02:21 PM
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#184
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkFTW
We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.
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You got your carrot - Wade was fired. Expect a lot of the latter from this point forward.
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11-12-2010, 02:26 PM
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#185
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Golden Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Where something amazing has FINALLY happened!!!
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
You got your carrot - Wade was fired. Expect a lot of the latter from this point forward.
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The inevitable cannot be a distraction...
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At what point, if a team ALWAYS takes too many jumpshots, do we wonder if it’s a case of dumb students or a case of a bad teacher?
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11-12-2010, 02:29 PM
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#186
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
Well I believe the Giants are going to be without their Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Center. Their backup center was also out for the year. So they are pretty banged up along the offensive line. Steve Smith (who always lights us up) is supposed to be out as well.
This isn't a very healthy team right now so there is always a possibility that the Cowboys could surprise some people on Sunday. It would be nice to see us attempt to slow down Hakeem Nicks this time around.
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Good points. And the thing I keep coming back to is this: this IS a very skilled football team. I mean, it's basically the same bunch that won 11 games last year, plus a playoff game. I think we ran into some fluky bad luck early on this year, combined with crucial missed FG's in all of our first four losses. Things could easily have gone the other way. But they didn't...and then we quit.
It's a new start now, though, and our talented players didn't just become untalented overnight. Sure we have weaknesses, but who doesn't. And...the Giants can't be as good as they have looked the last few weeks. It's time for both of these teams to regress to the mean. Give me the Cowboys in a hard-fought but convincing win.
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11-12-2010, 02:29 PM
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#187
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav Addict
The inevitable cannot be a distraction...
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Jerry proclaimed he wouldn't do it time and time again. Not quite sure it was completely inevitable.
I think positive distractions will have to come from the success of the Mavericks (as well as signings/trades for the Rangers).
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11-12-2010, 02:32 PM
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#188
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Good points. And the thing I keep coming back to is this: this IS a very skilled football team. I mean, it's basically the same bunch that won 11 games last year, plus a playoff game. I think we ran into some fluky bad luck early on this year, combined with crucial missed FG's in all of our first four losses. Things could easily have gone the other way. But they didn't...and then we quit.
It's a new start now, though, and our talented players didn't just become untalented overnight. Sure we have weaknesses, but who doesn't. And...the Giants can't be as good as they have looked the last few weeks. It's time for both of these teams to regress to the mean. Give me the Cowboys in a hard-fought but convincing win.
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I know Kitna has played pretty well, but don't forget that we have one MAJOR weakness. We are down our catalyst. Romo isn't just a normal QB, he is an all-pro caliber guy that runs our entire show.
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11-12-2010, 02:46 PM
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#189
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
I know Kitna has played pretty well, but don't forget that we have one MAJOR weakness. We are down our catalyst. Romo isn't just a normal QB, he is an all-pro caliber guy that runs our entire show.
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That's quite true, but a coach who is worth his salt should be able to game-plan around this weakness. I don't think we are much worse off with Kitna than a lot of teams who still manage to compete week in and week out.
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11-12-2010, 02:58 PM
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#190
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Golden Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Where something amazing has FINALLY happened!!!
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
That's quite true, but a coach who is worth his salt should be able to game-plan around this weakness. I don't think we are much worse off with Kitna than a lot of teams who still manage to compete week in and week out.
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He has not attempted to "game-plan" the offense without Romo....I have no faith that Garrett will all of a sudden "game plan" now...
I have no faith in Kitna either...the difference between other teams and this team is when Romo went down everybody quit b/c they have no faith in Kitna either...other teams that have a less than stellar QB simply have faith that they can find ways to still win
__________________
At what point, if a team ALWAYS takes too many jumpshots, do we wonder if it’s a case of dumb students or a case of a bad teacher?
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11-12-2010, 04:26 PM
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#191
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Saw this and figured I would post it. We shall see how it plays out.
Link...
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11-12-2010, 05:04 PM
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#192
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?
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"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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11-12-2010, 05:22 PM
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#193
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?
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I know what you mean... Hell, I bet I could coach better than those bums.
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11-12-2010, 05:31 PM
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#194
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
I know what you mean... Hell, I bet I could coach better than those bums.
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Nope that's not the correct answer. I'll give you a second guess if you want.
Here's a hint - it's a number.
__________________
"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
Last edited by FINtastic; 11-12-2010 at 05:32 PM.
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11-12-2010, 05:41 PM
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#195
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?
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I think the answer is zero.
And then there's the example, if you like it, of Sean Payton. Hell, he had his playcalling duties taken away when he was in New York. He's done pretty well for himself since then.
I also am fond of Todd Haley, though I recognize that he hasn't proven a whole let yet.
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11-12-2010, 05:42 PM
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#196
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
Nope that's not the correct answer. I'll give you a second guess if you want.
Here's a hint - it's a number.
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That is such an ignorant reason to avoid bringing in a great coach. Such an ignorant reason. It takes a LOT to go right to win it all and a comment like that is an indictment for every hall of fame coach that ever changed teams. Having a great coach is just one step. But it is one of the biggest missing ingredients for a team with our problems.
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11-12-2010, 05:49 PM
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#197
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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I have another stat for you... How many QBs that have won a Super Bowl have done the same for another team? I have a link for you if you want to check... It is a very similar number to the one Chum mentioned above.
I guess if Tom/Peyton becomes available for a team needing a QB those teams should just immediately look away because there is no chance to win with those guys.
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Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-12-2010 at 05:57 PM.
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11-12-2010, 06:34 PM
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#198
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
I have another stat for you... How many QBs that have won a Super Bowl have done the same for another team? I have a link for you if you want to check... It is a very similar number to the one Chum mentioned above.
I guess if Tom/Peyton becomes available for a team needing a QB those teams should just immediately look away because there is no chance to win with those guys.
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And there's probably a good reason for that. Teams that have a quarterback like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, etc. aren't going to put them on the market when they are in the prime of their career. So it's not really a useful hypothetical to bring them up as if they are going to become available.
__________________
"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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11-12-2010, 06:48 PM
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#199
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan
That is such an ignorant reason to avoid bringing in a great coach. Such an ignorant reason. It takes a LOT to go right to win it all and a comment like that is an indictment for every hall of fame coach that ever changed teams. Having a great coach is just one step. But it is one of the biggest missing ingredients for a team with our problems.
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I never said that we should avoid bringing in a "Super Coach", and if Garrett totally flops over these next eight games I would probably be fine with bringing in a Gruden. I was merely pointing out that it's never as easy as bringing in a Super Coach to fix our problems. Plus, you make an excellent point when you say that it takes a lot to go right to win it all. That includes drive and hunger from your head coach.
Don't underestimate human nature here - it's a lot easier to have that drive and hunger when you're young and unproven. When you get have already proven yourself, have a fat contract, and don't have the energy of your youth, it can be hard to match the performance you put together through a masterful Super Bowl run. Look at the last four coaches in the Super Bowl - Whisenhunt, Tomlin, Caldwell, and Payton. These guys weren't brand names beforehand, yet it didn't seem to turn out too poorly for their teams.
Whether Garrett is the next of the new kids on the block to find coaching success remains to be seen. But I don't really see the point in writing him off already before he's coached his first game when the Super Coaches that everyone is clamoring for aren't going to be slam dunks (if history has anything to say about it). Why don't we just sit back and see what Garrett can do? If you've been paying attention so far, you might have noticed that he's already done some impressive things in his first week. I, for one, am interested to see if it will translate onto the gridiron.
__________________
"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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11-12-2010, 06:53 PM
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#200
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
And there's probably a good reason for that. Teams that have a quarterback like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, etc. aren't going to put them on the market when they are in the prime of their career. So it's not really a useful hypothetical to bring them up as if they are going to become available.
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You can make a similar though not quite as good argument for the coaches. Teams with enough talent to win championships generally dont change coaches because they win too many games to fire their coaches and the coaches generally dont have a better option available. (gruden is the closest exception to this i can think of, and hes a MUCH better coach than cowher imo so i have no problem pointing him out.)
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