Get Kwame Brown - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Lebanese_Fan · 06-13-2005, 03:41 PM

Dallas must look at getting Kwame Brown. He is a 7 foot, 243 pounds. He is extremely athletic and strong, with a lot of potential. Everybody is talking about him going for the Mid Level Exception and not more. He will be a perfect player to supplement Damp and Dirk if not start at center. For the MLE, whatever he gives is going to be damn good because he is capable. He needs some motivation and a lot of support. What do u think guys? Let me Know.

LRB · 06-13-2005, 04:19 PM

Attitude, attitude, and attitude are the top 3 knocks on Kwame. He has the physcial attributes that the Mavs need, but there's a huge cloud fo doubt that he'll have the mental attributes or anywhere close to it. Last thing we need to do is lower the Mavs basketball IQ and add a player who's head is more up his @$$ than in the game. There's a reason why Washington told Kwame not to come to any more games or practices in the middle of their playoff run. It would take quite a bit for me to bite on Kwame.

bo319 · 06-13-2005, 04:44 PM

I think you can hardly go wrong if the deal is low dollar enough or short term enough. Even if Brown proves to still be very immature if the deal is right he would still be movable. I think Atlanta would take him anytime as a Georgia homeboy...they might just overpay him to get him now...what have they got to lose?
Adding Kwame to Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Al Harrington and Andrew Bogut...not a bad young nucleus.

rakesh.s · 06-13-2005, 05:49 PM

I think Kwame will be fine with a change of scenery..He couldn't handle the pressure in Washington. They wanted him to be the next Duncan or Garnett, which he obviously isn't.

Finding a role for him, much like Chicago did with Eddy Curry, is probably the way to go...Let him be your go to guy in the post when the game starts, but don't rely on him down the stretch.

chumdawg · 06-13-2005, 06:32 PM

I think the chances of any Bill Duffy client signing with Dallas are just baaaaaarely greater than zero. They might actually be zero.

dirno2000 · 06-13-2005, 06:54 PM

He looks chubby to me...I don't want chubby guys on my team.

MavKikiNYC · 06-13-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

I think you can hardly go wrong if the deal is low dollar enough or short term enough.

Ever heard the saying "Cheap is expensive."?

StrikerV · 06-14-2005, 04:22 AM

How about we trade Mark Aguirre for some dude in Detroit?

jayC · 06-14-2005, 11:53 AM

It has been several years since this guy was drafted number one. He is still a developing player; the mavs have two developing bigs. Why bring another along for the ride. I would rather bring in a guy that can help us immediately.

A guy in the Dale Davis mold.

Misfit Mav · 06-14-2005, 12:01 PM

Guys like Swift and Kwame probably believe that they are potential studs, and might be better suited to young teams like Atlanta where they can get more touches and development. I would prefer to get veterans that would be more satisfied with a complementary role.

LRB · 06-14-2005, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jayC
It has been several years since this guy was drafted number one. He is still a developing player; the mavs have two developing bigs. Why bring another along for the ride. I would rather bring in a guy that can help us immediately.

A guy in the Dale Davis mold.

Jayc I don't disagree with you in principle, but I would say that Dale Davis might have been nice 3 years ago or even 2 years ago, but he's a little over the hill for us now. But I do think that we should look for someone who can help now versus later unless we're trading one of our projects for an upgrade. But I'm not for trading for a proven dud like Kwame.

bo319 · 06-14-2005, 01:16 PM

I would rather pick up PJ Brown if given a choice...but Kwame has averaged 11 and 7 in a season so that is quite a bit better than a developing big man aka Pavel and MBenga who are at least 2 more years away form approaching those numbers combined.

LRB · 06-14-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: bo319
I would rather pick up PJ Brown if given a choice...but Kwame has averaged 11 and 7 in a season so that is quite a bit better than a developing big man aka Pavel and MBenga who are at least 2 more years away form approaching those numbers combined.

Kwame's set of basketball skills are definitely more refined than Pavel or Benga, but Kwame has also proven to be a total headcase. Kwame was kicked off his team essentially in the middle of a playoff run. I'll take teaching Pavel and Benga Bball skills over trying to teach Kwame responsibility, maturity, and how not to be a total nutcase. Last thing we want is a player that gives us 11 and 7 during the regular season and then flakes out on us in the middle of the playoffs forcing us to rebuild an new team strategy on the fly. Kwame might be worth taking a risk as a 12th man at or near the minimum, but I personally wouldn't be willing to invest much more in him.

BTW anyone remember Leon Smith?

Lebanese_Fan · 06-14-2005, 05:02 PM

Guys, we will never win without an athletic young big man to stop Duncan, Garnet and mainly AMARE. Damp is too slow and dirk is too fragile. PJ brown and Dale Davis are too old and SLOWWWWWWWW. We need quickness. Can u PLEASE give me a big man that is strong and athletic to complement dirk and damp?!?!?!?? (and that is as gettable as Kwame)

I know Kwame is a project, but the wiz organization is a BAD organization that has been losing for a long time. I am a fan, but Doug Collins and Jordan messed up Kwame. Everybody knows that.
He needs a chance to prove himself as a team player. If he want to join a winning team with a backup role instead of going to a bad team like Atlanta? What is wrong if Dallas talked with him and checked out if he is committed to the team concept?

I also would like to point out that the 11 and 7 he got last year was with extremely low minuets and with the fans CONSTANTLY BOOING him. Guys come on. The upside is soo much more than the downside. Don't forget that damp is more injury prone than Samuel L. Jackson in the movie unbreakable. And please, enough with p-pod and DJ. They barely played and they are not EVEN close to Kwame and it will take time for them to develop. I WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR AND KWAME WILL HELP US GET IT.

Misfit Mav · 06-14-2005, 05:13 PM

It's easy to get hung up on Amare, since he and Nash knocked us out of the playoffs. But we can't purely focus on getting a guy that will stop Amare. The Spurs don't have that guy, and they still pasted the Suns.

The only way to stop Amare is to get a better team than the Suns.

Lebanese_Fan · 06-14-2005, 05:19 PM

The spurs have three big men that are MORE athletic than Damp and Dirk. Nazr, Duncan and Horry. i am not only hung up on amare, we need to also stop Duncan and Garnet. Damp is TOOO slow and UnAthletic.

LRB · 06-14-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Guys, we will never win without an athletic young big man to stop Duncan, Garnet and mainly AMARE. Damp is too slow and dirk is too fragile. PJ brown and Dale Davis are too old and SLOWWWWWWWW. We need quickness. Can u PLEASE give me a big man that is strong and athletic to complement dirk and damp?!?!?!?? (and that is as gettable as Kwame)

There are so many things wrong with this statement on so many levels I don't know where to begin. 1st of all we've only had to face Garnett once before in the playoffs and we swept the Tpuppies. 2nd Garnett didn't even make the playoffs this year. 3rd we've only faced Amare once, this year. We played like crap and were one mistake from sending the series to a 7th game. So Amare is hardly an insurmountable obstacle. Now Duncan is another story. But what athletic big man can stop TD? Garnett? Hasn't done it. Amare. Failed miserably. So are you saying that Kwame and stromile are better than Garnett and Amare????

Now you call Dirk fragile. Dirk has missed a total of 20 regular season games over 7 seasons. Kwame missed twice that this year alone. So who's fragile here? Saying Dirk is more fragile than Kwame makes about as little sense as I can possibly imagine based on the empirical evidence. And old durable Stromile missed 20 games alone this year.

Quote:

I also would like to point out that the 11 and 7 he got last year was with extremely low minuets and with the fans CONSTANTLY BOOING him.

Evidently you have a totally different definition of "extremely low minutes" than I or most anyone I know does. Kwame played over 30 minutes per game the year he average 11 and 7. That's about average for a starter. And if the fans booed Kwame for being a general all around headcase screwup, there's a better than average chance he'll get his sorry @$$ booed here.

Quote:

If he want to join a winning team with a backup role instead of going to a bad team like Atlanta? What is wrong if Dallas talked with him and checked out if he is committed to the team concept?

Same reason it's wrong to parole Charles Manson when he's says he'll be good and obey the law. There's evidence that he'll perform to the contrary, and anybody can say something but only time will tell. I wouldn't trust Charlie Manson loose on the streets and I won't trust Kwame to pull his head out of his @$$ just because he says so.

Quote:

Don't forget that damp is more injury prone than Samuel L. Jackson in the movie unbreakable.

Wow, what can I say. This one really takes the cake. Damp did have a freak (meaning extremely unlikely to repeat) injury this year that cause him to miss around 23 games. Keep in mind that the total is barely over half of what Kwame missed. However over the previous 3 years, Damp had missed only 17 games. While that certainly won't qualify him as being an iron man, it does mean he's missed significantly less games over the past 4 years than have Swift or Kwame. So why on earth if you think that Damp is soooo injury prone, do you want to go out and get players who are even more injury prone. That makes no sense.

Quote:

I WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR AND KWAME WILL HELP US GET IT.

Why on earth would a career screwup be expected to turn it around and become a key part of a championship team is beyond my level of comprehension.

I'll grant you that Kwame and especially Stromile can probably dunk the basketball with more style and grace than either Dirk or Damp. But dunking for style doesn't win championships. And as far as being durable, Kwame and Swift aren't even qualified to carry Dirk's jockstrap.

grndmstr_c · 06-14-2005, 06:47 PM

Not terribly moved by the pro-Kwame arguments in this thread, but I nonetheless am intruigued by the possibility of landing him in free agency. There's no denying the problems he's had since he came into the league, but no ignoring the potential that made him a #1 pick, either. I think if you can get him without giving anything up, you pretty much have to roll the dice. Just because the Mavs are on the cusp of competing in the finals doesn't mean that they can afford to lose their aggressiveness in looking for an edge. Signing Kwame outright wouldn't cost the Mavs any players they currently have under contract. All it would do would be to deny them the opportunity of signing some other young, tall dude with an incomplete game and little or no big game experience. For someone with the upside of Kwame, that's a gamble I wouldn't have to think all that hard about (barring some revelation that Chandler or Gad were more realistic options than most seem to think they are).

LRB · 06-14-2005, 07:13 PM

So GMC if we could sign Kwame as a FA you're for it. Does that mean you're advocating alloting all of the MLE to get Kwame if necessary?

grndmstr_c · 06-14-2005, 09:03 PM

IDK, LRB. I suppose when you take a close enough look at it the full MLE with max raises and years might make me blink. I don't mean to imply that Kwame should be a major priority for the Mavs; there are other guys that I think would be great fits AND who I'd feel safer with, still others who might be cheaper yet still effective enough, and trades that are worth looking into as well. I just imagine that he could turn out in a year or two to be a very nice piece, perhaps even a starter, in a three-man rotation at the 4/5. And really, even if he only turned out to be a quality backup in the frontcourt, the MLE isn't an unreasonable amount of money to pay for a productive 20-30 minutes a game from a big.

The Miles · 06-15-2005, 02:16 AM

Full MLE to Kwame, no doubt, but I do doubt he would take it here to be a backup (tho he could easily beat out Dampier in time).

I would do it in a heartbeat, his talent is not to be ingored and the JO factor, ie a change of scenery, is too much to ignore. I know we all love DJ and Pavel, I am a big old DJ fan, but adding Kwame Brown can't hurt. If he stinks it up, we trade him, someone will always bite on Kwame. If he is just the 11 and 7 guy, he is still an asset. He put up 14 and 9 in the one full playoff game he played this year, off of the bench. If he busts out you have yourself your starting C for the next decade.

3 years full MLE, get his rights. You win with #1 picks, guys like Shaq and Duncan, so when you have a shot to add one, you go for it. Could be Kandi to Minny, sure, and if so he is a backup. But you can not ignore the JO factor.

Lebanese_Fan · 06-15-2005, 12:49 PM

LRB, with the current roster, we don't have a guy that can hold against Duncan, Amare and Garnet for 10 minuets let a lone a playoff series. We will decently meet one of the three in the west. Also Avery is going to make this team even more defensive because he knows we can only win a ring with defense. (LOOK AT THE TWO TEAMS IN THE FINALS).
We need a guy that can hold his ground against the latter big men.
You said dirk is not fragile because he is not injury prone. But that is not what I meant. Man he IS FRAGILE. His game is a finesse game. When he is defending, he doesn't put his arm or go for the block. He always goes for the steal. Sometimes it works and other times he give a wide open dunk.

Why are you against the POSSIBILTY of getting a guy like KWAME?

The Miles mention a great point, The JO factor.

I ask you to give me a big man that can help us. PLEASE just a name. (And not old guys like PJ and Dale).

dalmations202 · 06-15-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

I ask you to give me a big man that can help us. PLEASE just a name. (And not old guys like PJ and Dale).

A few names.

Samuel Dalembert
Steven Hunter
Theo Ratliff (although, yes he is old)
Chandler
Magloire (my opinon of the best pickup)
Francisco Elson
Jerome James
Nazr Mohammed
Brendan Haywood

But I am not against Kwame either, he just needs to come at MLE or less, IMO, for me to think they would take a chance on him.

grndmstr_c · 06-15-2005, 01:42 PM

And we need to be clear about something. Kwame, at least at this stage in his career, is nothing special on the defensive end. It's the overall package, including the potential to be an impact player on offense, that make him a tempting option.

Flip41 · 06-15-2005, 01:59 PM

If Cuban doesn't want to make the payroll any larger then how will he use the MLE. I guess there is only one or two contracts that are up, but do they equal the MLE?

grndmstr_c · 06-15-2005, 02:09 PM

If Cuban doesn't trade TAW's non-guaranteed contract I'm pretty sure the savings he'd get off of TAW would more or less make up for the MLE. Plus, if he can accomplish filling out the roster while hanging on to KVH he stands to shave quite a bit off the payroll when that expires next year.

LRB · 06-15-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lebanese_Fan
LRB, with the current roster, we don't have a guy that can hold against Duncan, Amare and Garnet for 10 minuets let a lone a playoff series. We will decently meet one of the three in the west. Also Avery is going to make this team even more defensive because he knows we can only win a ring with defense. (LOOK AT THE TWO TEAMS IN THE FINALS).
We need a guy that can hold his ground against the latter big men.
You said dirk is not fragile because he is not injury prone. But that is not what I meant. Man he IS FRAGILE. His game is a finesse game. When he is defending, he doesn't put his arm or go for the block. He always goes for the steal. Sometimes it works and other times he give a wide open dunk.

Why are you against the POSSIBILTY of getting a guy like KWAME?

The Miles mention a great point, The JO factor.

I ask you to give me a big man that can help us. PLEASE just a name. (And not old guys like PJ and Dale).

OK 1st as to naming a big man who can help us, see the post by Dalmations right after yours for a list of big men, and I'd prefer any of them over Kwame.

2nd of all on Dirk, you should know that Dirk was 18th in the NBA with 119 blocks this season averaging 1.53 per game. While that's not All NBA Defensive team worthy, it's still pretty damn good and better than most big men. Dirk also average 1.24 steals per game which is pretty good for a big man. As for Dirk being a total finesse player, it really doesn't matter one way or another so long as he's getting positive results. Dirk has evolved into a better than average defender, not great by any means but definitely not poor either. As GMC pointed out previously, Kwame isn't exactly a defensive stalwart either at this point in his career. Certainly Dirk can get better at D and I expect him to progress this years has he has been continuing to do.

Now can Dirk shut down Amare or Garnett or Duncan? No he can't. However it appears that there is no player in the NBA who can accomplish this feat on any sort of regular basis. I mean Dunan was 1st team all nba defense and Amare lit the Spurs up like a christmas tree. But here is where you should take note and study carefully. Amare scored seemingly at will against the Spurs and his team still lost in 5 games. So you see we really don't need to worry about stopping Amare, just beating the Suns. And SA proved emphatically that you can beat the Suns without slowing down Amare.

Now we probably don't want Dirk guarding a top player like Amare or Duncan or Garnett for most of the game because we don't want Dirk in foul trouble. So Damp will probably be the one to guard them. And Damp is much better than most players at guarding these guys when he stays out of foul trouble. This certainly is a big issue, but I don't see Kwame being anywhere near as good as Damp that this point in their respective careers. Again, you don't need to stop the top PF to advance. The Lakers got past Duncan last year with a beat up and very old Karl Malone. Garnett didn't make the playoffs this year. Mavs beat Garnett last time they met in the playoffs. Dirk couldn't stop Garnett but Garnett was even worse at stopping Dirk. Amare got tons of points against Duncan, but his team only won 1 out of 5 games.

It appears that your points are based more on emotion and love of athletism over accomplishment than on any real basis of objective facts. But if you do have pertinant facts, please do share.

Now as to the possiblity of getting Kwame, I'm not afraid so much of wasting the MLE on Kwame, although I'm not estatic about it. No, what I fear is that Kwame would come hear, have a fairly good regular season and possibly even early playoff run. Then he emotionally self destructs like he did in Washington this year. This would hurt the team on 2 fronts. First it's disturbing and hinders concentration when a teammate does crap like that at the best of times, and in the middle of a playoff run is probably the worst possible time. Secondly, our strategy has been devised with Kwame in the rotation. If we have to replace him in the rotation at the last minute with someone else that can throw our timing off and there is precious little time to practice and learn an new rotation when in the playoffs. So I fear our team coming to trust in Kwame and him leaving us in the lurch at the worst possible time.

If we were far from being a championship team, then this might not be a big deal. Kwame has tons of potential and physical athletism. He's has just failed to demonstrate that he has the capacity to be trusted. There's a very good possiblity that if we just keep who we had this year and give the team another year to jell chemistry wise and to learn Avery's system that this could be a championship team. I hate to risk that on such a long shot as Kwame.

LRB · 06-15-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Flip41
If Cuban doesn't want to make the payroll any larger then how will he use the MLE. I guess there is only one or two contracts that are up, but do they equal the MLE?

When did Cuban say that he didn't want to make the payroll even larger even if doing so would significantly upgrade the team's talent level?

Flip41 · 06-15-2005, 02:39 PM

I read it somewhere, sorry I can't give you the quote.

LRB · 06-15-2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Flip41
I read it somewhere, sorry I can't give you the quote.

I've read that he's said that he won't add payroll unless the talent increase justifies it, but if he's changed to saying add no payroll no matter what it would be interesting to know.

bo319 · 06-15-2005, 02:42 PM

The best I would offer is 3 years at the full MLE. Sort of a "make good" contract. 3 years is long enough to see if he is a bust or not....and for him he would have to do good for only 3 years and he'd still be young enough to cash in on his next deal.
Win Win Scenario.

The Miles · 06-15-2005, 03:50 PM

Yes sir bo, I agree 100%.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-17-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lebanese_Fan
LRB, with the current roster, we don't have a guy that can hold against Duncan, Amare and Garnet for 10 minuets let a lone a playoff series.

Not sure what you mean by all that. If you're saying like everyone else that we need "an athletic 4/5" too keep up with quick big men like Amare, then stop putting Duncan and Garnett in that list. Duncan is much slower than Dirk; about the same speed as Damp actually. That's why whenever we play the Spurs, Dirk goes off for 30+. Duncan is a dominant post player, using bank-shots, and other savvy moves. I doubt Kwame would give him much more trouble than Dirk or Damp, but you never know. Duncan has said that the guys who give him the most trouble are big athletic guys like Garnett and Rasheed. Garnett on the other hand isn't exactly a huge matchup problem for us. He's not that potent offensively. His numbers are great, but he can't really create his own offense, and isn't a great post player. He gets his points mostly from driving and shooting; a lot like Dirk in this year's playoffs. Now, I personally would love to see Kwame here, because he's a potential star, and at worst a serviceable backup. Imagine if he did turn out to be a star. We'd have a lineup full of young stars: Devin (hopefully), Josh (definately a future all-star) Dirk (need I say more?) and Kwame. That team would be beastly. However, your deduction that the reason we haven't won a title is because of matchup problems with Amare, Duncan, and Garnett is flat out wrong.

Dalhoop · 06-18-2005, 10:01 AM

We don't have to match up with Amare, Duncan or KG to win a title, players like those are impossible to match-up with. What we need to win is team defense, we are in a position to get that this off-season (strike not withstanding).

You want someone to match up with Amare? You think he killed us? He had a better series against the Spurs with Duncan and Horry (spelling?) guarding him. You are not going to match-up with those players, what you have to do is minimize the impact of the other players.

The Mavs have the depth to get a guy like Kwame (the Mavs are about the perfict team for his development). If he comes with attitude or other problems, we sit him. The Mavs are so deep that they do not HAVE to put up with those problems. On another team the coach/gm would have to play him in order to have a chance at winning a game, that is not the case here. Kwame either plays well, or he sits and the Mavs win anyway.

I believe that this is a fundimental problem with young players. The coach and GM fell pressure to play the "young stud" even when he makes mistakes. It teaches the player that his mistakes will be ignored and that he will play reguardless of his effert on the floor.

The Mavs should sign Kwame, play him the first few games, and then treat him like a rookie if he messes up. He has to be instructed that sloppy play, indifferent attitude and general stupidness will not be rewarded with floor time.

I think that the Mavs would be great from him, and him for the Mavs (if he learns quickly)

j · 06-18-2005, 11:03 AM

Great Quote: I think Kwame needs a Change of Scenrios: He would give us a athletic 4/5 the MAVS needs. If he does not work out he is your 3 best 4/5 on the team. I could remember Donnie saying you are get value by trading players when their stocks are at an all time low. If Kwame was in the draft there will be no way we will have the ammuntions to trade for him Washington would be asking for a ton for a player with his skills and height: I say the best ability to get him in here.
He only going to get better.

Worst Scenrios: He is your third best 4/5 player behind Dirk and Damp.
Best Scenros: He your starting 5 in the future with Dirk and him. Man that would be unstoppable.

sike · 06-18-2005, 11:12 AM

how old is the kid...like 23 or 24? With the skill set he has and the fact that he's still so young, I'd take my chances that this locker room and AJ could help the young man find the straight and narrow....

chumdawg · 06-18-2005, 12:02 PM

Just to reiterate: If Bill Duffy refused our interest in Olowakandi, and then ran the end-around on us with Nash, and then Cuban made all this public and expressed his dislike for Duffy (and basically accused him of acting unethically)...do you really think there is a chance Cuban and Duffy are going to do business anytime soon?

I don't.

sike · 06-18-2005, 12:36 PM

didnt Mark call Duffy the Anit-Christ?....that made me laugh

Thespiralgoeson · 06-18-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: j

Worst Scenrios: He is your third best 4/5 player behind Dirk and Damp
Best Scenros: He your starting 5 in the future with Dirk and him. Man that would be unstoppable.

agreed

LRB · 06-18-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Just to reiterate: If Bill Duffy refused our interest in Olowakandi, and then ran the end-around on us with Nash, and then Cuban made all this public and expressed his dislike for Duffy (and basically accused him of acting unethically)...do you really think there is a chance Cuban and Duffy are going to do business anytime soon?

I don't.

Only way that Duffy would be likely to do business with Cubes is if Cubes was offering significantly more than Duffy could get elsewhere. This definitely won't be the case with Kwame.