Could this Mavs team win the title with fill-in-blank in place of Dirk? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

albigensian · 03-30-2007, 10:06 PM

I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.

chumdawg · 03-30-2007, 10:18 PM

Who would play the four?

robo98564 · 03-30-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albigensian

I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.

Kobe is a guard, Dirk is a forward... stupid post bro. But to answer your question, I'd take Dirk over Kobe 100 times out of 100

robo98564 · 03-30-2007, 10:18 PM

double post

AxdemxO · 03-30-2007, 10:20 PM

Respect what he can do 1 on 1, but its a team game and they wont get anywhere in the playoffs if he has to do all tht while Dirk and Mavs will.

nashtymavsfan13 · 03-30-2007, 10:22 PM

Honestly, Kobe is probably better than Dirk. That being said, to win in the playoffs you need to play a team game, and Dirk is MUCH better at that. Dirk fits in much better and I would not trade him for anyone in the league.

jleefilled · 03-30-2007, 10:28 PM

I think Kobe would disrupt the chemistry of the team. I'm not sure if I would call him selfish, but I think he basically forces players around him to tune their game to him. I'd expect to see the respective games of players like Terry, Howard, and Harris to suffer if the Mavs replaced Kobe with Dirk, and thus, no, I don't think the Mavs would be able to win the title in this scenario. And that's not even addressing the issue of who would play the 4 on this particular team.

Just my opinion.

chumdawg · 03-30-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Honestly, Kobe is probably better than Dirk. That being said, to win in the playoffs you need to play a team game, and Dirk is MUCH better at that. Dirk fits in much better and I would not trade him for anyone in the league.

Not at all to dismiss Dirk, but the Kobe has *already* won three titles in a row.

u2sarajevo · 03-30-2007, 10:32 PM

Although quite different players indeed, but I think my stomach would churn if Kobe was a Maverick like it did everytime I had to endure Walker playing in a Maverick uniform.

If we were winning titles that would probably solve that, but who would be our 4? Croshere?

Usually Lurkin · 03-30-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Not at all to dismiss Dirk, but the Kobe has *already* won three titles in a row.

on shaqs coattails.
Dirk would have won those three in a row, and then several more, cause he wouldn't have run his meal ticket off to the other side of the country.

you · 03-30-2007, 10:33 PM

Dirk is this year's MVP and draws other players to accept lesser roles to compete for championships.

The only other players I can think of that have that kind of effect are Shaq and Duncan.

Kobe isnt on that list.

Dirk and Bryant will have some battles in the near future for the conference, but as of now, Dirk is the superior player with the ability to lead a superior team.

left texas · 03-30-2007, 10:33 PM

I think this is a ridiculous thread. It could never happen and why would I want a questionalble citizen at the least, on this Mavericks team??!! If you want this franchised destroyed try to bring in Cobe.

mary · 03-30-2007, 10:35 PM

That's the only change?

Swap out Kobe and Dirk?

What a stupid question.

The team would be incredibley lopsided and Austin Croshere would be the power forward.

The answer is no.

Quote:

Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us

What exactly did those scoring efforts get Kobe? Any closer to a championship?

Seriously, this is stupidity of epic proportions.

Congratulations.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-30-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

I think this is a ridiculous thread.

Let's leave it at that. Lock the thread.

dirno2000 · 03-30-2007, 10:42 PM

I don't know. People seem to take it as a given that Kobe's the best in the game. The thing ins, even when he was surrounded with talent and winning titles, was never as efficient as Dirk is now. I guess you could argue that he's entered his prime and, if given Dirk's supporting cast, would be more efficient.

Like Chum said, it would depend on who replaced Dirk at the 4.

you · 03-30-2007, 10:47 PM

Bryant would need an inside scorer/rebounder/defender on at least the level of Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer to do anything close to what Dirk is doing now.

He would need a partner for the inside/outside game. That's what the Lakers are missing.

aexchange · 03-30-2007, 10:48 PM

wow, the idiocracy on this board is at an all time high.

thank you for gracing us with you presence.

Dim499 · 03-30-2007, 10:50 PM

In 2004 the Mavs (52 wins) and Lakers (56 wins) were about even. Then Nash (the MVP) left Dallas without compensation, Shaq left LA for Lamar Odom and Caron Butler.

The following year the Lakers missed the Playoffs and won 34 games, the Mavs won 58. Doesn't that mean anything? Kobe only cares about personal goals, because he got his championships given to him so early. He doesn't care about his team and he doesn't make his team better because he doesn't let them develop as they rarely see the ball.

jleefilled · 03-30-2007, 10:51 PM

But but but..

Quote:

Originally Posted by albigensian

If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity.

sorry, albigensian, I had to do it.

mary · 03-30-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year.

The playoffs last year? Didn't Barkley accuse Kobe of quitting during Game 7?

A first round exit is a great finish?

albigensian · 03-30-2007, 10:53 PM

There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe. Who would play the four though? I don't know but I think the Mavs brain trust would've come up with a live body or something but definitely not Dirk.
As for Kobe being a disruption to the chemistry, well he got along well enough with Shaq to grab a few titles. But isn't what Mavs fans want? A few championships, heck just one would be fine for me.
Kobe did buy into Phil Jackson's system during their title run so it's not inconceivable to see Kobe buy into Avery's philosophy.

mary · 03-30-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe.

You're high. The only other team Kobe would've signed with was the Clippers.

Evilmav2 · 03-30-2007, 10:59 PM

Could this Mavs team win the title with Kobe in place of Dirk?

Very probably, No...

But if we had a credible scoring threat at the PF position who could also rebound, and perhaps, play a little bit of defense (say like a David West), we sure as heck would still rank amongst the top few teams in the league in terms of regular season record, and we would be a fearsome draw in the Western conference playoffs...

chumdawg · 03-30-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

The playoffs last year? Didn't Barkley accuse Kobe of quitting during Game 7?

A first round exit is a great finish?

To call it "quitting" would be to frame it in an incredibly generous light. Not only did he quit on his team, but he showed them up to boot. By my count, he ventured inside the three-point line twice the entire second half. TWICE. He sleepwalked his way through the third and fourth quarters. When passed the ball, he just passed it back. I guess he tossed a few lazy threes up there. But basically, he pulled down his pants and showed his ass.

He is a tremendous player, but he showed his ass that game.

you · 03-30-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albigensian

There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe. Who would play the four though? I don't know but I think the Mavs brain trust would've come up with a live body or something but definitely not Dirk.
As for Kobe being a disruption to the chemistry, well he got along well enough with Shaq to grab a few titles. But isn't what Mavs fans want? A few championships, heck just one would be fine for me.
Kobe did buy into Phil Jackson's system during their title run so it's not inconceivable to see Kobe buy into Avery's philosophy.

Hey Lakerfan, Shaq led the Lakers to the Finals. You guys hitched your wagon to the wrong horse.

you · 03-30-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

To call it "quitting" would be to frame it in an incredibly generous light. Not only did he quit on his team, but he showed them up to boot. By my count, he ventured inside the three-point line twice the entire second half. TWICE. He sleepwalked his way through the third and fourth quarters. When passed the ball, he just passed it back. I guess he tossed a few lazy threes up there. But basically, he pulled down his pants and showed his ass.

He is a tremendous player, but he showed his ass that game.

That was a pitiful performance. Bryant acted like a whiny brat trying to prove to his team that they cant win without him. It was an absolute disgrace and the media neglected to look deeper into it.

Something was happening behind the scenes that we dont know about. That game was unlike anything I've ever seen in sports.

92bDad · 03-30-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albigensian

I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.

Kobe is a highly skilled individual and he is attempting to mature into a team player, however he is a prima-donna in the elk of T.O. and does more harm to his team than good. The main difference between Kobe and Dirk is that Dirk has always and continues to be a Team player and leader on and off the court. Dirk's work ethic has helped to make the rest of the team better. Kobe shows repeatedly that he is out for himself...This is why Shaq left...Kobe basically caused that team to break up...

Not that I mind, as I hate the Lakers, but had Kobe played with Dirk's heart and humbleness, the Lakers may already of had another 3 Championships!!!

At the end of the day, I have never wanted to have Kobe over Dirk and I doubt I ever well...Dirk is one of the greatest players of all time and this will be the first of multiple NBA Championships to come his way.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-30-2007, 11:05 PM

Why is every respectable poster on this board feeding the monkey? LOCK THE THREAD

albigensian · 03-30-2007, 11:23 PM

Fresh off of the nuking I received for my last thread I'm for more.
Ok, last year after the playoffs, a friend and I had a conversation where he suggested that if the Mavericks had KG instead of Dirk, they would have won the title. Now I know everyone and their dog knows KG will never be sent to the Mavs for Dirk but just hypothetically speaking, what
the f*** if? Sure Dirk is by far the superior perimeter player, but Garnett is a better post player, passer, and rebounder. Both players are great teammates as well as unselfish. One major negative on Garnett though is that late in games, he has a 'way' of not getting the ball and when he does he often passes to a teammate who will not make the big shot. Dirk finds a way to get the ball and hit the big shot or freethrows (tonight's game was a perfect example). Just a thought. Fire when ready....

LRB · 03-30-2007, 11:29 PM

This team would never be as successful with Kobe than as with Dirk if Kobe has a similar level of supporting cast that was well balance among all 5 positions. There are many reasons, but the most important and biggest reason is Kobe's piss poor attitude. Kobe is the #1 reason for the blowup of the Lakers championship team. There is no way in hell Kobe could ever buy into Avery's system the way Dirk has nor could he come halfway close to putting the team 1st as Dirk has. With Kobe's humongous ego and disregard of team over self, you wouldn't see Jerry Stackhouse be willing to be 6th man and dedicate himself so fully to the team. The team cohesiveness just wouldn't be there. With enough talent surronding him Kobe can win a championship, but I don't see how we could get a 30 yearold Shaq, and that's probably the level of talent that it would take.

rmacomic · 03-30-2007, 11:31 PM

How about this Hitman in albigensian out. Anyone still care?

mary · 03-30-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

How about this Hitman in albigensian out. Anyone still care?

Sounds good.

I'd even go for a Baylor grad student/albigensian swap.

vjz · 03-30-2007, 11:36 PM

Looks like this thread is related to this:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...thy/index.html

LRB · 03-30-2007, 11:37 PM

How about just make one thread for the stupid questions?

Dirk isn't just a better perimeter player than KG, he's a much better offensive player. Dirk is arguably the best the hardest matchup in the league right now. I don't really much if any advantage of KG in the post. Dirk has closed the gap in passing substantially. KG is better defensively, but that gap has closed a great deal as well. With KG we would be a better rebounding team and a better defensive team. However we'd be a much worse offensive team. We'd still be an elite team with KG, but nowhere near as strong a contender as we are with Dirk. Not only is Dirk the overall better player, but this team was built for Dirk, not for KG.

u2sarajevo · 03-30-2007, 11:39 PM

We only need one thread... so I merged your two almost identical threads...

LRB · 03-30-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

We only need one thread... so I merged your two almost identical threads...

Three cheers for U2.

chumdawg · 03-30-2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRB

This team would never be as successful with Kobe than as with Dirk if Kobe has a similar level of supporting cast that was well balance among all 5 positions. There are many reasons, but the most important and biggest reason is Kobe's piss poor attitude. Kobe is the #1 reason for the blowup of the Lakers championship team. There is no way in hell Kobe could ever buy into Avery's system the way Dirk has nor could he come halfway close to putting the team 1st as Dirk has. With Kobe's humongous ego and disregard of team over self, you wouldn't see Jerry Stackhouse be willing to be 6th man and dedicate himself so fully to the team. The team cohesiveness just wouldn't be there. With enough talent surronding him Kobe can win a championship, but I don't see how we could get a 30 yearold Shaq, and that's probably the level of talent that it would take.

Devean George didn't mind playing--and at a nice level, to boot--for Kobe, any more than he does for Dirk here. What makes you think Stackhouse is any less a pro?

LRB · 03-30-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Devean George didn't mind playing--and at a nice level, to boot--for Kobe, any more than he does for Dirk here. What makes you think Stackhouse is any less a pro?

I didn't say that Stackhouse wouldn't have played here. But with Kobe's selfishness and much lesser degree of buyin, I highly doubt that we would have the same level of buyin by players like Stack that we currently do. That's no knock on Stack, but even highly professional people don't perform as well under much poorer leadership. Kobe is a walking, talking, volume shooting soap opera. Those distractions can't be totally discounted just because of professionalism of other players.

chumdawg · 03-30-2007, 11:52 PM

When it comes to Stackhouse specifically...granted, you are running into some problems inasmuch as they play similar (at least) positions. But I think you sell Stackhouse way short if you think his effort level would be less if Kobe were here instead of Dirk. Stack is a feiry competitor, and when it comes down to it I doubt you would hear him say that he defers to Dirk's leadership at that. Stack looks to me like a leader every minute he's on the floor.

dude1394 · 03-30-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albigensian

I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.

There is a reason that teams that have players who score 50 points a game don't win, they are NOT a TEAM.

How many rebounds would kobe get? Although dirk isn't a traditional low-post player, he's an elbow post player (a lot like duncan when he's not low).

I'll take dirk over kobe any day of the week. Kobe with Odom should be a hell of a lot more competitive than they are, but not. No thanks.