Gerald Green should not play... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

joemoeschmoe · 03-31-2009, 03:11 PM

Gerald Green is really athletic, but he's dumb as bricks. People on this board have complained about Josh's shot selection. Green's is far worse.

I can't really say Green has any "shot selection" at all because he shoots the ball within 3 seconds of getting the ball almost every time he touches it. It'd be a lot better if those were drives to the rim, but no, they're long, contested two pointers with a lot of time left on the shot clock. Its not like he's making a bunch of different good moves either. He's almost always takes 1 - 2 dribbles, moves almost nowhere, and then shoots an off-balance shot.

Is there no coach yelling at him every time he does that? There should be. Seriously, I'm baffled why he gets any playing time while he continues to play like he has no understanding of the game.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-31-2009, 03:13 PM

Unfortunately I have to agree. Throughout the season I've been really pissed off at Carlisle for not letting him play, but now I know why. He's got the worst shot selection I've ever seen.

frankvizza · 03-31-2009, 03:14 PM

i agree with his shot selections there bad and look like he is a ball hog , on the other hand he can finish around the rim and he makes his free throws not like our antoine wright who blows

Dirkgreatness · 03-31-2009, 03:16 PM

He has tons of potential thats the only reason i want him to keep getting minutes. I agree though he has to work on his shot selection.

Flacolaco · 03-31-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankvizza

i agree with his shot selections there bad and look like he is a ball hog , on the other hand he can finish around the rim and he makes his free throws not like our antoine wright who blows

I showed this to my 4th grade english teacher and she jumped off a bridge and killed herself.

ty · 03-31-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankvizza

i agree with his shot selections there bad and look like he is a ball hog , on the other hand he can finish around the rim and he makes his free throws not like our antoine wright who blows

Welcome back, basketballgirl25.

EricaLubarsky · 03-31-2009, 03:21 PM

Josh Howard should not play...

monty55555 · 03-31-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I showed this to my 4th grade english teacher and she jumped off a bridge and killed herself.

Hahaha. This truly made me laugh out loud!

Genius

SMC0007 · 03-31-2009, 03:58 PM

It doesn't take a brain sargeant to know why this forum struggles~ ME

joemoeschmoe · 03-31-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

He has tons of potential thats the only reason i want him to keep getting minutes. I agree though he has to work on his shot selection.

I don't think he should get any non-garbage minutes until he limits his retarded shots to 1 or two a game. He can work on his shot selection in practice, D-league, watching tape with coaches, pre-season next year, and/or any other time but meaningful game minutes. Thats like 99%+ of his time is available to work on this.

I agree he has a ton of physical potential though. His defense is actually pretty good, but his shot selection is so poor, I have my doubts he'll ever really get it. Surely the coaches have scolded him multiple times while showing him the tapes of his play...Surely.

There are 9 games left and, even though we're 3 games behind Utah (really like 3.5) and 3 games behind Portland (really like 2.5), its not unreasonable for us to catch one of them because they both have road-heavy schedules while we have a home-heavy schedule.

vinylstar · 03-31-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

Surely the coaches have scolded him multiple times while showing him the tapes of his play...Surely.

They don't, and don't call me Shirley.

bernardos70 · 03-31-2009, 04:15 PM

He's trying to impress a coach that hasn't played him all year. The easiest way to get noticed is by scoring. Just ask Holger and Dirk.

TheMaverick · 03-31-2009, 04:47 PM

I actually think rocks are smarter than Gerald Green.

tcat075 · 03-31-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

He's trying to impress a coach that hasn't played him all year. The easiest way to get noticed is by scoring. Just ask Holger and Dirk.

I would agree with this statement.

If Green is ever to "get it" in this league, he needs playing time. And maybe, once you invest a little time into him, you'll realize he's never going to "get it". But with that much potential, don't you have to try?

I've compared him to Nelson Cruz of the Rangers last year. Cruz excelled in the minors, but he never could make it in the big leagues. He'd come up, hit poorly, go back down, hit lights out, come back up, hit poorly, on and on and on. People dismissed him as never going to be a major league player.

But last year, the end of the year, the Rangers gave Cruz 30-35 games where Cruz was going to start, and he was going to start every game. If Cruz was to get it, he was going to get it now. If he couldn't make it, then at least the Rangers would know.

Cruz started slow (went 0-19 after his first MLB game, I think) but he adjusted, and now he's the starting RF for the Rangers.

Sure, its baseball to basketball. Some might call it apples to oranges. But to me, these guys situations are similar: insane talent/potential, but could never make it as a key player until someone committed to giving him playing time.

I'm not sure that this is the right time to do it, with 9 games left in the season. But whether he re-signs or goes elsewhere, he needs someone to be committed to getting him minutes and he might just make it.

Burn this City · 03-31-2009, 10:27 PM

He actually seems to have gotten worse than when I saw him play in Boston a few years ago. I never expected him to contribute much anyways.

Quetzalcoatl · 04-01-2009, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

He's trying to impress a coach that hasn't played him all year. The easiest way to get noticed is by scoring. Just ask Holger and Dirk.

Totally agree.

tcat075 · 04-01-2009, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burn this City

He actually seems to have gotten worse than when I saw him play in Boston a few years ago. I never expected him to contribute much anyways.

I think your right. But his playing time has also got down significantly. Just something to consider, in my opinion. I'm open to the fact that Gerald Green is a bust and that's all there is to it. Right now, I'm not sure I believe that, but I may eventually.

GermanDunk · 04-01-2009, 07:09 AM

Vs. Lakers Rick has to bring a surprise if he wants or not.

tcat075 · 04-01-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Vs. Lakers Rick has to bring a surprise if he wants or not.

Justin Credible · 04-01-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

He has tons of potential thats the only reason i want him to keep getting minutes. I agree though he has to work on his shot selection.

I have to say that I agree.

I truly believe that Green is simply trying to do exactly what the coaches want him to do rather than playing "his" game. While that will up him as a "smart" player, it's taking away something that he's naturally good at as well as taking away something that the Mavericks need right now; someone that can drive the paint with deadly accuracy.

I've noticed that it looks like Green really wants to drive and go for the finish a hell of a lot more often than he does. I've complained about this before and I'll do it again - it seems like the coaches are trying to turn him into a less talented Josh Howard rather than letting him skip the jumpshots and going for the highlight reel dunks/drives that got him where he is today in the first place.

erdubya · 04-01-2009, 10:00 AM

Players get better with game time, not practice time. Yeah he may be a rock with feet, but dumbness can be overcome.

SMC0007 · 04-01-2009, 10:20 AM

Pointless to dog Green, he doesn't get playing time. When he does it's with other scrubs so he has to jack up shots and create offense.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 04-01-2009, 04:44 PM

We should use him for fast break points and alley-oops.

TheMaverick · 04-01-2009, 09:19 PM

Gerald Green should just join the and1 tour.

mqywaaah · 04-02-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankvizza

i agree with his shot selections there bad and look like he is a ball hog , on the other hand he can finish around the rim and he makes his free throws not like our antoine wright who blows

This guy should not post...

DavidDaMonkey · 04-02-2009, 10:24 AM

This thread confuses me. Just when I thought I was supposed to be begging RickyC for more Green minutes because he could turn this team around, suddenly I'm supposed to hate Green and hope that he never so much as sniffs the court? Someone tell me what to think!

SMC0007 · 04-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Think that some people are bags of douche. A guy that plays very very very limited minutes is holding his own and not developing into a superstar over night from practice time only, has somehow become worthy of getting hammer in his own thread.

Dtownsfinest · 04-02-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Think that some people are bags of douche. A guy that plays very very very limited minutes is holding his own and not developing into a superstar over night from practice time only, has somehow become worthy of getting hammer in his own thread.

I agree. Its nonsense. How in the hell can a player develop sitting on the pine wit splinters in his ass? Fine to criticize the guy but there's no reason to go at the guy's intelligence. Especially with the way he's been treated by the coaching staff whether its deserving or not.

ty · 04-02-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

This thread confuses me. Just when I thought I was supposed to be begging RickyC for more Green minutes because he could turn this team around, suddenly I'm supposed to hate Green and hope that he never so much as sniffs the court? Someone tell me what to think!

Turn this team around? lol...

joemoeschmoe · 04-02-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Think that some people are bags of douche. A guy that plays very very very limited minutes is holding his own and not developing into a superstar over night from practice time only, has somehow become worthy of getting hammer in his own thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree. Its nonsense. How in the hell can a player develop sitting on the pine wit splinters in his ass? Fine to criticize the guy but there's no reason to go at the guy's intelligence. Especially with the way he's been treated by the coaching staff whether its deserving or not.

1) He recently played significant minutes in really important games - Den, GSW, CLE. In all of them (even where his numbers looked good vs GSW), he made a ton of poor decisions. It really killed us in the Den game - about 5-8 wasted possessions.
2) People on this board have been calling for significant minutes all season.
3) There are a TON of ways to get better outside of playing in a game. Watch film. Teach yourself new moves. Practice old moves. Shoot a ton of jumpshots. Scrimmages. D-League. I admit that getting significant, consistent game time is also important to a player's development, but you have to at least not suck.
4) I'd rather see more Wright or even Matt Carroll than him in non-garbage minutes.
5) Boo hoo, I'm "picking" on a guy that makes $800k this year. Everyone is fair game.

SMC0007 · 04-02-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

Quote:

1) He recently played significant minutes in really important games - Den, GSW, CLE. In all of them (even where his numbers looked good vs GSW), he made a ton of poor decisions. It really killed us in the Den game - about 5-8 wasted possessions.

No, he has played well in several of those games. He played well more games than not.. A few times he made poor decisions to shoot the ball but look who else was out on the court! It's not like he gets the ball and runs down court ignoring everyone and shoots a highly contested shot early in the shot clock. It's not like he hasn't hit big shots and made plays in the few presssure situations he has been in. He made a few big 3's and created some nice things for us in tough games when we needed the help.

Quote:

2) People on this board have been calling for significant minutes all season.

More people have been calling for consistent minutes, a defined role. Not significant in the way of late game or big pressure situations, but something a lil more consistent perhaps.

Quote:

3) There are a TON of ways to get better outside of playing in a game. Watch film. Teach yourself new moves. Practice old moves. Shoot a ton of jumpshots. Scrimmages. D-League. I admit that getting significant, consistent game time is also important to a player's development, but you have to at least not suck.

Reports are that he does work hard and practices hard. D league isn't exactly up to him, so that is a moot point. He doesn't suck, period. IMO, You are a fool if you have watched him play and thought he doesn't deserve more minutes than what he has gotten.

Quote:

4) I'd rather see more Wright or even Matt Carroll than him in non-garbage minutes.

This is silly twice, first off MATT CARROLL sucks big hard sloppy ones! He is good for nothing. Second, A Wright is a starter so IDK what you are saying. He already logs more minutes.

5)

Quote:

Boo hoo, I'm "picking" on a guy that makes $800k this year. Everyone is fair game.

pfft, no one is "crying" because you are saying things that are incorrect or as you say "picking" on him.

Sure everyone is fair game but that doesn't mean it makes sense to bash on a dude that doesn't play. Well, he gets tossed in at such total randomness that it seems like RC is drawing names out of a hat. When he plays he comes in and shows flashes of being able to contribute more than not. Bash Matt Carroll, when he comes in he brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!! Zero athletic ability, can't defend, can't shoot and that is what he was brought her for.

tcat075 · 04-02-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

1) He recently played significant minutes in really important games - Den, GSW, CLE. In all of them (even where his numbers looked good vs GSW), he made a ton of poor decisions. It really killed us in the Den game - about 5-8 wasted possessions.

Before anything, I'll concede that Green took some bad shots. I'm not going to go all homer-y and say that everything Green does is perfect.

However...

*Often, Green is put in with a non-scoring lineup. Since Green has the reputation as a scorer, players try to feed him the ball. This results in a couple things: Green is played tighter as the defenses don't have to worry so much about the other players, and Green is forced to put up shots because no one else will.

*Other times, when Green is in with scorers, he never touches the ball. I can vividly remember a game where Green came in for 4 minutes and never touched the ball on the offensive end. Dirk and JJ took most of the shots, which is OK because Dirk is Dirk and JJ is a scorer.

*Green has taken several shot clock beaters, usually when he is passed to with seconds left. That skews his stats.

*He wants to score so to impress Carlisle because he wants minutes...

*...and so if he got some more consistant minutes maybe Green wouldn't feel as pressured to score, thus would make better decisions and shots. Also, playing time may help his decision making.

And if you want proof that not getting consistent minutes might mess with Green's decision making: In the game I mentioned earlier when Green played 4 minutes and didn't touch the ball, he didn't play the next game either. Or the one after that. Don't you think he might be thinking, "Had I scored once or twice in those 4 minutes, maybe I'd be playing now not sitting. Next time, I have to try to score, or coach will just bench me for another couple weeks."

Quote:

2) People on this board have been calling for significant minutes all season.
3) There are a TON of ways to get better outside of playing in a game. Watch film. Teach yourself new moves. Practice old moves. Shoot a ton of jumpshots. Scrimmages. D-League. I admit that getting significant, consistent game time is also important to a player's development, but you have to at least not suck.
4) I'd rather see more Wright or even Matt Carroll than him in non-garbage minutes.
5) Boo hoo, I'm "picking" on a guy that makes $800k this year. Everyone is fair game.

We don't want significant minutes. Just 5-8 minutes on a consistent basis each night. Bigger roles if he's playing well and/or we are playing a team where we need his athleticism.

According to every source I've seen, Green is a great worker who stays after practice, comes early, listens to the coaches, etc etc. I think he's close to as good as he can get by just practice.

Wright gets minutes. Green is not here to take away Wright's minutes. Rather, take away some JJ minutes, please! At least on nights JJ can't score, because if JJ can't score he's worse than useless.

You know who you're picking on? You're picking on a guy who hasn't got many shots to defend himself. You know, I can take shots at a guy all day if his hands and feet are tied. But if he is ever allowed to get loose of those knots, he may just deliver a pretty hefty shot back.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-02-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Before anything, I'll concede that Green took some bad shots. I'm not going to go all homer-y and say that everything Green does is perfect.

However...

*Often, Green is put in with a non-scoring lineup. Since Green has the reputation as a scorer, players try to feed him the ball. This results in a couple things: Green is played tighter as the defenses don't have to worry so much about the other players, and Green is forced to put up shots because no one else will.

*Other times, when Green is in with scorers, he never touches the ball. I can vividly remember a game where Green came in for 4 minutes and never touched the ball on the offensive end. Dirk and JJ took most of the shots, which is OK because Dirk is Dirk and JJ is a scorer.

*Green has taken several shot clock beaters, usually when he is passed to with seconds left. That skews his stats.

*He wants to score so to impress Carlisle because he wants minutes...

*...and so if he got some more consistant minutes maybe Green wouldn't feel as pressured to score, thus would make better decisions and shots. Also, playing time may help his decision making.

And if you want proof that not getting consistent minutes might mess with Green's decision making: In the game I mentioned earlier when Green played 4 minutes and didn't touch the ball, he didn't play the next game either. Or the one after that. Don't you think he might be thinking, "Had I scored once or twice in those 4 minutes, maybe I'd be playing now not sitting. Next time, I have to try to score, or coach will just bench me for another couple weeks."

We don't want significant minutes. Just 5-8 minutes on a consistent basis each night. Bigger roles if he's playing well and/or we are playing a team where we need his athleticism.

According to every source I've seen, Green is a great worker who stays after practice, comes early, listens to the coaches, etc etc. I think he's close to as good as he can get by just practice.

Wright gets minutes. Green is not here to take away Wright's minutes. Rather, take away some JJ minutes, please! At least on nights JJ can't score, because if JJ can't score he's worse than useless.

You know who you're picking on? You're picking on a guy who hasn't got many shots to defend himself. You know, I can take shots at a guy all day if his hands and feet are tied. But if he is ever allowed to get loose of those knots, he may just deliver a pretty hefty shot back.

Those are all valid reasons, but at the end of the day, he's still taking bad shots. Normally you have one young player that you develop as a project and let play through his mistakes, but the problem with the Mavs is that the entire bench consists of these "project" players. It would seem Green is just the odd man out. It's unfortunate because I think he's probably the most talented guy we have on the bench (not including Terry of course), but when you're fighting for an eighth seed, you don't have a lot of breathing room to let your young players get the stupid out of their system.

Really good teams and really bad teams both have that luxury. Unfortunately the Mavs are stuck in the middle; not good enough to where they put away teams consistently and early enough to give someone garbage minutes, and not bad enough to where it doesn't matter who they play.

SMC0007 · 04-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Before anything, I'll concede that Green took some bad shots. I'm not going to go all homer-y and say that everything Green does is perfect.

However...

*Often, Green is put in with a non-scoring lineup. Since Green has the reputation as a scorer, players try to feed him the ball. This results in a couple things: Green is played tighter as the defenses don't have to worry so much about the other players, and Green is forced to put up shots because no one else will.

*Other times, when Green is in with scorers, he never touches the ball. I can vividly remember a game where Green came in for 4 minutes and never touched the ball on the offensive end. Dirk and JJ took most of the shots, which is OK because Dirk is Dirk and JJ is a scorer.

*Green has taken several shot clock beaters, usually when he is passed to with seconds left. That skews his stats.

*He wants to score so to impress Carlisle because he wants minutes...

*...and so if he got some more consistant minutes maybe Green wouldn't feel as pressured to score, thus would make better decisions and shots. Also, playing time may help his decision making.

And if you want proof that not getting consistent minutes might mess with Green's decision making: In the game I mentioned earlier when Green played 4 minutes and didn't touch the ball, he didn't play the next game either. Or the one after that. Don't you think he might be thinking, "Had I scored once or twice in those 4 minutes, maybe I'd be playing now not sitting. Next time, I have to try to score, or coach will just bench me for another couple weeks."

We don't want significant minutes. Just 5-8 minutes on a consistent basis each night. Bigger roles if he's playing well and/or we are playing a team where we need his athleticism.

According to every source I've seen, Green is a great worker who stays after practice, comes early, listens to the coaches, etc etc. I think he's close to as good as he can get by just practice.

Wright gets minutes. Green is not here to take away Wright's minutes. Rather, take away some JJ minutes, please! At least on nights JJ can't score, because if JJ can't score he's worse than useless.

You know who you're picking on? You're picking on a guy who hasn't got many shots to defend himself. You know, I can take shots at a guy all day if his hands and feet are tied. But if he is ever allowed to get loose of those knots, he may just deliver a pretty hefty shot back.

Good post! +Rep.

ShaggyDirk · 04-02-2009, 10:54 PM

Reading this thread feels like I am sitting at a kiddy table surrounded by 5 year olds eating glue and cutting paper with their little safety scissors.

Flacolaco · 04-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Reading this thread feels like I am sitting at a kiddy table surrounded by 5 year olds eating glue and cutting paper with their little safety scissors.

I used to dip the safety scissors in the glue and then lick it right off of there.

SMC0007 · 04-03-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Reading this thread feels like I am sitting at a kiddy table surrounded by 5 year olds eating glue and cutting paper with their little safety scissors.

joemoeschmoe · 04-03-2009, 01:55 PM

Some good counterpoints to my agruments. I still think that, despite OK numbers in one game (GSW), when he played recently, he played poorly. Putting up a bad shot is still a bad shot even if you make it. Against GSW some of the bad shots went in so his numbers looked good.

I do agree that its likely he tries to score like crazy because he doesn't get on the court often. However, that doesn't excuse it.

We did play him all but one game in October and he had a few good ones, but overall still made a good amount of bonehead moves. These last 3 games his bonehead moves per minute went up IMO. However, I'd rather see Green than Stack or George most of the time.

Its great that he's working hard. Eventually I imagine it'll click and he'll be a consistent contributor without being a black hole on offense.

I still contend that he shouldn't play the rest of the season (or post-season) in non-garbage minutes.