Gortat appears* bound for a team not named the Dallas Mavericks

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This doesn't really clarify anything for me. I didn't say it wasn't.

he was agreeing with you by pointing out that Gortat was playing against far less competition than Tim Duncan in his big game.

[Flacolaco]

I'm Flacolaco, and I approve all of thig's messages.

Also, totally separate from this....Having a contrary point of view just for the sake of argument and boredom is so awesome. If anyone ever starts that bit up, let me know. That's certainly never been done before.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

*sigh*

Do you not see a distinction between "Gortat could possibly surpass Damp as a player at some point next season" and "Well at least Gortat's better than that scrub Dampier"?????

Distinction between what could happen and what might not happen? Of course. Cuts both ways, though, bro. When you were banging your head on your desk, you were displaying your clear judgment that you knew which way the worm would turn.

It's like we're going to flip a coin, and someone thinks it coming up heads, and you beat your head on the desk over and over again because you just KNOW that it's coming up tails.

Well, if you do know that, then it makes sense to do so. But you don't. As you have now come around to admitting.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

I've seen enough of Gortat in the past 20 minutes on youtube to KNOW he is already way better than Damp at finishing around the rim and simply at catching the ball in general.

That's absolute fact. No doubt. You could also say the same about Ryan Hollins, but I don't think anyone's clamoring for him to start (other than SMC).

I'm just trying to temper expectations, more than anything. Expectations are a big reason why Damp is so underappreciated around here. Let's let young Gortat come in with manageable expectations, no? (Assuming he comes at all).

[badfish22]

So apparently after we got a commitment by Gortat, the Rockets "shifted gears" and picked up Trevor Ariza for the MLE. For the same price, Ariza is a much better pick up than Gortat. I'm sure he would have rather come here and play on a playoff team, right?

[Flacolaco]

I'm just trying to temper expectations, more than anything.

I've been trying to do that on this board for 3 years.

People do not want to hear that, trust me. They want unabashed hope and change...not unlike another group of people who are bound to be disappointed with their idiotic homerific approach with extra optimism and minimal logic.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Distinction between what could happen and what might not happen? Of course. Cuts both ways, though, bro. When you were banging your head on your desk, you were displaying your clear judgment that you knew which way the worm would turn.

It's like we're going to flip a coin, and someone thinks it coming up heads, and you beat your head on the desk over and over again because you just KNOW that it's coming up tails.

Well, if you do know that, then it makes sense to do so. But you don't. As you have now come around to admitting.

No it's distinction between what might happen and the current situation. The current situation is that Damp is an average starting NBA center with a lot of skins on the wall (relatively speaking).

The current situation is that Gortat is basically a guy coming off his rookie season and has played more than half an NBA game only a handful of times.

So the idea that Gortat is, as of July 3rd, 2009, a better starting center than Dampier is ridiculous (in my opinion).

What I will concede is that on July 3rd of 2010, Gortat may have proven himself capable of being a starting center on a playoff caliber team, and established himself as a better option for the Mavericks.

That is NOTHING like claiming you know what the outcome of a coin flip is. Your analogy there was terrible.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'm Flacolaco, and I approve all of thig's messages.

Also, totally separate from this....Having a contrary point of view just for the sake of argument and boredom is so awesome. If anyone ever starts that bit up, let me know. That's certainly never been done before.

How are you defining "contrary," boss? Contrary to what you approve? Or contrary to what the Mavs are doing?

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That's absolute fact. No doubt. You could also say the same about Ryan Hollins, but I don't think anyone's clamoring for him to start (other than SMC).

To be fair, thiggy, the skill sets don't look that close between Hollins and "The Hammer"...unless you mean that they are comporable bc they are both still so unproven. To which I would say Gortat has proven far more capable in his short burn than Hollins in his.

But yes...they both have better hands than Damp.

I've always respected Damp for what he is...a very specialized player.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That's absolute fact. No doubt. You could also say the same about Ryan Hollins, but I don't think anyone's clamoring for him to start (other than SMC).

I'm just trying to temper expectations, more than anything. Expectations are a big reason why Damp is so underappreciated around here. Let's let young Gortat come in with manageable expectations, no? (Assuming he comes at all).

I, myself, have very high hopes but I can maintain a sense of realism. He's been in a different system than we run. I think he's headed in the right direction to be a pretty talented guy. It's just going to take some time to adapt. Damp as the safety net is very good short-term insurance, but the intention def. seems to be that Gortat is being groomed as our future Center. His skill-set though can translate into a new system, what he does is what Carlisle and Donnie preached that we needed in a bad way.

If I'm Carlisle on Day 1 of training camp and they're both here: Damp it's yours right now, but it's still an open competition.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm just trying to temper expectations...

But you are guaranteeing that your boy Gortty will average 13/11/2, right?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sike

But you are guaranteeing that your boy Gortty will average 13/11/2, right?

If he doesn't I'm blaming that on BG, too.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If he doesn't I'm blaming that on BG, too.

wise man.

[Flacolaco]

If Gortat's potential is even half as good as his supporters are saying, then he should improve rather quickly. Damp's foul trouble will give the young man ample opportunity.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If he doesn't I'm blaming that on BG, too.

Bring it on foo!

You were sippin' the kool-aid as well!

[sike]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

If Gortat's potential is even half as good as his supporters are saying, then he should improve rather quickly. Damp's foul trouble will give the young man ample opportunity.

Oh...its half as good. Its totally half as good!




...wait??

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The current situation is that Gortat is basically a guy coming off his rookie season and has played more than half an NBA game only a handful of times.

So the idea that Gortat is, as of July 3rd, 2009, a better starting center than Dampier is ridiculous (in my opinion).

This analysis ignores the other side of the equation, for starters. It recognizes that Gortat is on his way up, as you concede below in your post. What it should also do is recognize that Damp is on his way down. At some point, a lower guy (which I know you think Gortat is) who is on the way up is going to pass an upper guy who is on the way down. You are claiming that this cannot possibly happen before next season.

What I will concede is that on July 3rd of 2010, Gortat may have proven himself capable of being a starting center on a playoff caliber team, and established himself as a better option for the Mavericks.

Ah, so now you have given us a timeframe. By next year, the upward-downward paths will have crossed.

That is NOTHING like claiming you know what the outcome of a coin flip is. Your analogy there was terrible.

I guess the coinflip is whether Gortat surpasses Damp THIS year or NEXT year. You think it won't be this year, to the point where you bang your head against a hard surface, potentially endangering your health. I hope you see by now how foolish this is.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by sike

Oh...its half as good. Its totally half as good!




...wait??

I believe a certain moron comic might opine after a post such as yours..."and there's your sign."

That's just what kind of off-season it is. We're all up late on a Thursday, pissing and moaning about MARCIN GORTAT.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Bring it on foo!

You were sippin' the kool-aid as well!

Oh I still am. And if I'm wrong we all know whose fault that'll be.









Yours.

[dalger]

Assuming that we're not planning on investing $30-plus million in a back-up center, I hope that Gortat turns into the player the FO apparently sees in him. It's a risky move, no doubt, but the upside could be huge. As much as Damp might be underrated around these parts, it's undeniable that we won't win anything with him as our starting center, therefore I'm willing to role the dice on Gortat and see whether he can become a more capable center than Damp. Gortat, at worst, might just not be good enough to help us pursue our championship goals, but he potentially could be good enough and rather cheap at the same time. With Damp, we already know that he isn't good enough.

With that said, one year from now we might very well be complaining about the fact that we didn't trade for a proven center like Camby, Kaman, or Chandler.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I believe a certain moron comic might opine after a post such as yours..."and there's your sign."

That's just what kind of off-season it is. We're all up late on a Thursday, pissing and moaning about MARCIN GORTAT.

You can't "here's your sign" a guy who knows he is being moronic, can you??? Can you??!!!


on the record, I think this could be a great signing and should be considered a very strong move.


now make that Stack Chip dance, donnie!!!! Make it Dance!!!

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This analysis ignores the other side of the equation, for starters. It recognizes that Gortat is on his way up, as you concede below in your post. What it should also do is recognize that Damp is on his way down. At some point, a lower guy (which I know you think Gortat is) who is on the way up is going to pass an upper guy who is on the way down. You are claiming that this cannot possibly happen before next season.

Ah, so now you have given us a timeframe. By next year, the upward-downward paths will have crossed.

I guess the coinflip is whether Gortat surpasses Damp THIS year or NEXT year. You think it won't be this year, to the point where you bang your head against a hard surface, potentially endangering your health. I hope you see by now how foolish this is.

What????

When did I ever say Gortat would absolutely pass Damp at some point? At what point did I say I was convinced Gortat was a young player on the rise?

You are better than this.

I said simply that I am willing to admit that Gortat might pass Damp as a player at some point in the future. How you got time frames and certainties I have no idea.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I believe a certain moron comic might opine after a post such as yours..."and there's your sign."

That's just what kind of off-season it is. We're all up late on a Thursday, pissing and moaning about MARCIN GORTAT.

In country where a bunch of people are going to gorge on junk food and drink like it's going away and lighting up fireworks...

AMERICA!!!

[sike]

Originally Posted by dalger

With Damp, we already know that he isn't good enough.

that is a fair and true statement, sir.

[Windmill360]

look at that shnoz

[sike]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

look at that shnoz

stop making fun of his nose! 360, stop hating the Polish!!!

edit: dang it...I just saw that you actually were commenting on his nose. I didn't see the text before. oh well.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

What????

When did I ever say Gortat would absolutely pass Damp at some point? At what point did I say I was convinced Gortat was a young player on the rise?

You are better than this.

I said simply that I am willing to admit that Gortat might pass Damp as a player at some point in the future. How you got time frames and certainties I have no idea.

Dude...if you don't think that Gortat is a player on the rise, then I see no reason to listen to anything you say. Sorry to be harsh, but if you are going to fall back on that as a defense, then you aren't qualified to stay in this discussion. A 24-year-old big man who has shown great flashes of promise...doomed to go down from there? Sell it elsewhere.

If you think Gortat has already maxed out, there is no reason for more conversation. That's very disappointing, but at the same time, all the more reason to ridicule you for banging your head on that desk.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That's absolute fact. No doubt. You could also say the same about Ryan Hollins, but I don't think anyone's clamoring for him to start (other than SMC).

I'm just trying to temper expectations, more than anything. Expectations are a big reason why Damp is so underappreciated around here. Let's let young Gortat come in with manageable expectations, no? (Assuming he comes at all).

Apparently you banged you head a little too hard. Come on, You are sucking the life force out of this potential move. I think a lot of people understand the risk and reward thing on this deal if it gets done. If some don't get the point you are OVER-driving home then so be it, they aren't gonna.

I haven't been clamoring for Hollins to start haha. Damp throttles most Mav fans that watch him play, sorry. He just doesn't do much for A LOT of folks aside from you.

[BGMaverick9]

I will say one thing...you gotta give them props for going out and making a splash with signing a top tier FA big out of this FA group. They've done what they can, they got the guy to say yes. How many times have we heard stories where we've gone on woo-fests and wined and dined guys and the guy signed somewhere else. Either that or we went after guys like George, EJ, Buckner and etc.

It's new territory, hopefully it works.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

look at that shnoz

Ancient Polish weapon - that's how he creates momentum to get into the paint...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I will say one thing...you gotta give them props for going out and making a splash with signing a top tier FA big out of this FA group. They've done what they can, they got the guy to say yes. How many times have we heard stories where we've gone on woo-fests and wined and dined guys and the guy signed somewhere else. Either that or we went after guys like George, EJ, Buckner and etc.

It's new territory, hopefully it works.

Great outlook - at least this is something new...

[Flacolaco]

In Poland, nostrils unclog you.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Great outlook - at least this is something new...

It's a risk, no doubt...but for a guy who could potentially start to hit his stride in a position that is incredibly hard to find, at that price - it's a risk you've gotta take. You can't win big if you don't try.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Dude...if you don't think that Gortat is a player on the rise, then I see no reason to listen to anything you say. Sorry to be harsh, but if you are going to fall back on that as a defense, then you aren't qualified to stay in this discussion. A 24-year-old big man who has shown great flashes of promise...doomed to go down from there? Sell it elsewhere.

If you think Gortat has already maxed out, there is no reason for more conversation. That's very disappointing, but at the same time, all the more reason to ridicule you for banging your head on that desk.

So there's no grey area for you. No middle ground. No "I don't know".

That's all I've ever said on Gortat. I don't know what to expect, and he's not better than Damp *yet*.

Again, there is nothing there that anyone other the board contrarian would ever take this much exception to.

In fact the notion that all big men that show promise end up realizing their promise is the most ludicrous notion put forth in this thread. (former) Sonic fans would like to introduce you to Jim Mcylvane. There are endless lists of players that have shone greatly during limited playing time and withered under the spot light of a big contract and a larger role.

And just to be perfectly clear, because you've been twisting a lot of my words tonight: I am NOT sayint that is going to happen to Gortat. I honestly do.not.know what to expect form Gortat. I'm withholding judgment until I see a lot more of his work.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's a risk, no doubt...but for a guy who could potentially start to hit his stride in a position that is incredibly hard to find, at that price - it's a risk you've gotta take. You can't win big if you don't try.

Go big or go home - this could be the hail mary that keeps Dirk here and possibly brings a ring to Dallas (or it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back...)

[sike]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I will say one thing...you gotta give them props for going out and making a splash with signing a top tier FA big out of this FA group. They've done what they can, they got the guy to say yes. How many times have we heard stories where we've gone on woo-fests and wined and dined guys and the guy signed somewhere else. Either that or we went after guys like George, EJ, Buckner and etc.

It's new territory, hopefully it works.

and (hate to beat a dead horse) but they did this without using Stack....which means at least one more serious move is going to happen!

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Go big or go home - this could be the hail mary that keeps Dirk here and possibly brings a ring to Dallas (or it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back...)

that was beautiful...you should be a writer.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

What????

When did I ever say Gortat would absolutely pass Damp at some point? At what point did I say I was convinced Gortat was a young player on the rise?

You are better than this.

I said simply that I am willing to admit that Gortat might pass Damp as a player at some point in the future. How you got time frames and certainties I have no idea.

So basically your just standing in the middle warning everyone. "ya'll Don't get excited and expect this guy to come and take Damps job." I think most of us want that to happen.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So there's no grey area for you. No middle ground. No "I don't know".

That's all I've ever said on Gortat. I don't know what to expect, and he's not better than Damp *yet*.

Again, there is nothing there that anyone other the board contrarian would ever take this much exception to.

In fact the notion that all big men that show promise end up realizing their promise is the most ludicrous notion put forth in this thread. (former) Sonic fans would like to introduce you to Jim Mcylvane. There are endless lists of players that have shone greatly during limited playing time and withered under the spot light of a big contract and a larger role.

And just to be perfectly clear, because you've been twisting a lot of my words tonight: I am NOT sayint that is going to happen to Gortat. I honestly do.not.know what to expect form Gortat. I'm withholding judgment until I see a lot more of his work.

You are withholding judgment EXCEPT to bang your head on your desk at the RIDICULOUS (your words, I think) that he would be better than Damp?

Way to withhold judgment, bro. How very, very openminded of you.

It's an interesting world you live in, where you "don't know what to expect" from Gortat, but you know damn skippy that it ain't gonna be good as Damp. Who's the guy with no grey area and no middle ground?

By your proclamations, it's the guy who "honestly do.not.know what to expect from Gortat." Hell, man, if you have absolutely zero clue, why are you ridiculing posters who believe he'll be better than Damp?

You need to get a hold of yourself.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Apparently you banged you head a little too hard. Come on, You are sucking the life force out of this potential move. I think a lot of people understand the risk and reward thing on this deal if it gets done. If some don't get the point you are OVER-driving home then so be it, they aren't gonna.

I haven't been clamoring for Hollins to start haha. Damp throttles most Mav fans that watch him play, sorry. He just doesn't do much for A LOT of folks aside from you.

Aw c'mon. People are comparing Gortat to Calvin Booth and Jim McYlvane and I'M sucking the life force out of the move??

I was minding my own business, just me and my desk, until Chum came along and completely mis-characterized what I was even trying to say. Since then I've fallen into the pit known as "it's after 12:00 and Chum is bored". And for that I do apologize.