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Old 11-01-2003, 02:00 PM   #41
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

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Originally posted by: dude1394
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Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
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I'm just not a fan of wallace. He looks like a lot more atheletic fortson to me. Probalby about the same height come to think about it.
I didn't want to be the one to bring this up, but....

He's about 6.7
Fortson or wallace or both? My buddie and I at the game have been going back and forth about how tall fortson really is. I'm thinking he's about the same height as finley.
I wouldn't be surprise if Fortson was even shorter than Fin, say around 6'6" or so.

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Old 11-01-2003, 02:19 PM   #42
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: dude1394
You can't name a CHAMPIONSHIP team that has a complete zero on the floor at the end of games. You have to take a longer view of him than just defensive numbers. If he was so durn great he could have carried his team last year, but it didn't/won't happen.
Presuming you are talking about a complete zero on the offensive end, how about the Lakers of the mid-80s with Kurt Rambis? That guy was a terrible offensive player. Also, I presume that you are discounting Rodman's presence on the last three Bulls' championship teams due to Jordan's presence.
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Old 11-01-2003, 02:36 PM   #43
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

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Originally posted by: 4cwebb
Quote:
Originally posted by: dude1394
You can't name a CHAMPIONSHIP team that has a complete zero on the floor at the end of games. You have to take a longer view of him than just defensive numbers. If he was so durn great he could have carried his team last year, but it didn't/won't happen.
Presuming you are talking about a complete zero on the offensive end, how about the Lakers of the mid-80s with Kurt Rambis? That guy was a terrible offensive player. Also, I presume that you are discounting Rodman's presence on the last three Bulls' championship teams due to Jordan's presence.
My memory about whether Rambis finished games for the Lakers is a admittedly a little fuzzy since it was so long ago, but I do seem to remember Rambis rarely being in to close games. He was a starter and great role player, but I don't remember him being a regular crunch time player.

As for Dennis Rodman, he was only a bad offensive player when he choose to be. While he would never be considered great, Rodman did have semi decent skills. And his FT'ing was more a lack of concentration than anything. With the game on the line he shot much better though never great. Rodman's offensive game was always very underrated.
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Old 11-01-2003, 02:51 PM   #44
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

it's amazing that you could argue the benefits of bradley and then say something about Wallace not making much of an impact on the mavs

a bit confused LRB?
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Old 11-01-2003, 03:10 PM   #45
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

I know this is a BS trade, but if the Mavs were able to aquire Wallace my inclination would to be starting him at SF.

C - Bradley
PF - Dirk
SF - Wallace
SG - Fin
PG - Nash

I know that with this lineup Dirk and Wallace would be interchangeable on the defensive end. Then whichever Toine wasn't traded would be your sixth man.

With this lineup there aren't going to be many times when a slasher comes through the middle uncontested. There would still be 3 scorers on the floor and this team would murder most teams rebounding.
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Old 11-01-2003, 03:13 PM   #46
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Two things, though, regarding Bradley. One is that he's not near as much of an offensive liability as Wallace is. No low-post moves, but his mid-range "jumper" is a pretty nice, reliable shot. The second, and in my mind most important difference is that he's already on our roster. We don't have to trade an all-star caliber player to get him. Combine that with the fact that we may have a chance to go after J O'neal in a trade next summer, and that, for example, Foyle (who would serve a similar purpose) will be a (likely gettable) free agent next summer, and I think it's questionable that going after Wallace (which may be a pipe dream anyway) would be the best thing to do.
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Old 11-01-2003, 03:20 PM   #47
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

it's a complete hypothetical with regards to wallace

however, there's no excuse for saying that wallace would not do much for the mavs defensively.... that's just a totally horrific statement.

if someone wants to argue that you wouldn't want to give up the offense...that's at least somewhat something that someone could argue..although it's very difficult to say that losing one of 5 options would have a significant negative impact on the Mavs offense.

it's impossible to argue that wallace wouldn't have a significant impact on the mavs defense. anyone that would do so has some serious issues that they need to overcome before posting anything else basketball related


I don't believe that there's a basketball writer, gm or coach in the country that wouldn't instantly give up jamison for ben wallace.
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Old 11-01-2003, 03:22 PM   #48
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
it's amazing that you could argue the benefits of bradley and then say something about Wallace not making much of an impact on the mavs

a bit confused LRB?

First of all, Bradley is more of a offensive player than Wallace IMO. I'm not saying Shawn is a great or even good offensive player, just considerably better overall that Wallace. Next to play Shawn, we don't have to give up any players that would make us weaker at other positions. To get Wallace here we would most likely have to give up 2 of Fin, Walker, or Jamison.

Ben has lots of advantages over Shawn, but Shawn is almost a whole foot taller than Ben. And on a per minute basis Shawn is much better than Wallace at blocking shots. Last season Shawn blocked a shot every 10.1 minutes while Ben only blocked a shot every 12.5 minutes. I also feel that Shawn is much better than Wallace at altering shots, a stat which of course isn't kept by the NBA.

Now Ben is definitely a much better rebounder than Shawn. Ben grabbed a rebound every 2.56 minutes last season compared to Shawn's 3.62 rebounds per minute. Still Shawn is a good rebounder, Ben is just much better. However, playing in the West most of the time I would expect Ben's numbers to come down some. Still I wouldn't expext it to go below 1 rebound every 3 minutes even in a worst case scenario. But remember we have to give up 2 players to get Ben and need to figure their rebounding as well. Fin, Walker, and Jaimsion averaged a rebound every 6.60, 5.76 and 5.61 minutes respecitively. Not great but their total rebounds were 5.8, 7.2, and 7.0 respecitively. And combination of the 2 would be within 4 rebounds of Big Ben's totall.

Ben would be the best man-to-man post defender on this team despite his lack of height. But he can't shut down Shaq and Duncan one on one and if Wallace comes to help someone else, his man will be open for a layup unless we get our defensive rotations down which we've always struggled with. If Wallace stops the drive there is still the dish to his man available.

So by getting Big Ben we lose a ton of points. We lose lots of opportunities to draw fouls on opposing players (which really is the best defense IMO). We gain only marginally on rebounding for what we give up. We get someone who is a big liability in close games because of his lack of O and FT skills. And he's not as good at shot blocking as who we already have. Plus he's undersized.




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Old 11-01-2003, 03:26 PM   #49
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

how do you lose a ton of points by getting big ben.

please tell me? surely you must admit that anything that the mavs would lose because he's not an option (a fifth option) would be more than made up for by his additional offensive rebounding..and surely you must realize that the mavs would gain more offensive possessions simply by having two dominating defensive rebounders in dirk and wallace.

well, surely you wouldn't argue this because you're dead wrong on the situation to begin with.

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Old 11-01-2003, 03:30 PM   #50
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
it's a complete hypothetical with regards to wallace

however, there's no excuse for saying that wallace would not do much for the mavs defensively.... that's just a totally horrific statement.

if someone wants to argue that you wouldn't want to give up the offense...that's at least somewhat something that someone could argue..although it's very difficult to say that losing one of 5 options would have a significant negative impact on the Mavs offense.

it's impossible to argue that wallace wouldn't have a significant impact on the mavs defense. anyone that would do so has some serious issues that they need to overcome before posting anything else basketball related


I don't believe that there's a basketball writer, gm or coach in the country that wouldn't instantly give up jamison for ben wallace.
Thank you for your opinion Murph, but do you have any thing to explain how one player will make a huge difference when the team D still sucks?

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Old 11-01-2003, 03:43 PM   #51
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

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how do you lose a ton of points by getting big ben.
Gee Murph you're a really smart guy, I thought you'd know this one already. But let's just use last years numbers and Say Michael Finely and Walker are traded which are the least stat loss for the mavs.


Mavs gain 6.9 points from Wallace and loose 19.3 pts from Fin and 20.5 points from Walker. That equals a negative 32.9 points a game.

Now Mavs gain 15.4 rebounds per game from Wallace but loose 5.8 rebounds from Fin and 7.2 rebounds from Walker. That equals a positive 2.4 rebounds per game.

Let's say that we get 2.4 more possesion each game and score 3pts on each possesion. That gives us 7.2 points per game more. But since we were at -32.9 we're still down 25.7 points.
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Old 11-01-2003, 03:50 PM   #52
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

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Originally posted by: LRB
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how do you lose a ton of points by getting big ben.
Gee Murph you're a really smart guy, I thought you'd know this one already. But let's just use last years numbers and Say Michael Finely and Walker are traded which are the least stat loss for the mavs.


Mavs gain 6.9 points from Wallace and loose 19.3 pts from Fin and 20.5 points from Walker. That equals a negative 32.9 points a game.

Now Mavs gain 15.4 rebounds per game from Wallace but loose 5.8 rebounds from Fin and 7.2 rebounds from Walker. That equals a positive 2.4 rebounds per game.

Let's say that we get 2.4 more possesion each game and score 3pts on each possesion. That gives us 7.2 points per game more. But since we were at -32.9 we're still down 25.7 points.
Are you really assuming that Walker or Finley or going to have the same averages this season? That seems unlikely at best. You can't just throw those numbers around in a vacuum. If the Mavs don't have Finley or Walker, Nash, Dirk and Jamison would all score more. The offensive philosophy wouldn't change for the Mavs with the addition of Wallace, and considering that the Mavs haven't been getting too many points out of the C position the last two years, I don't think you can assume that the per game scoring would decrease drastically.

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Old 11-01-2003, 03:52 PM   #53
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

It may be unlikely that they get similar averages, but it is reasonable to assume they will produce at or near their career averages or last seasons results. Besides, you need a point of reference.
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Old 11-01-2003, 04:00 PM   #54
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: bogey
It may be unlikely that they get similar averages, but it is reasonable to assume they will produce at or near their career averages or last seasons results. Besides, you need a point of reference.
If they had a line for that in Vegas, I'd take that bet. I doubt either player will average the number of points that he averaged last season. Plus, that discounts the fact that Dirk seems to be the type of scorer that can average close to or over 28 points a game if he gets more shots.
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Old 11-01-2003, 04:05 PM   #55
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

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Originally posted by: bogey
It may be unlikely that they get similar averages, but it is reasonable to assume they will produce at or near their career averages or last seasons results. Besides, you need a point of reference.
Excellent response Bogey. And that was my intent.

4CWebb, no I don't think their averages will stay the same. I also don't think Ben's would either. I think fin's and walkers scoring will go down and Wallaces rebounds and shot blocks would go down. I would expect bot Fin's and Walkers rebounding to go up though. Bradley averaged almost as much as Wallace (6.7 to 6.9) in almost half the minutes (21.4 to 39.4). Last year the Bradley/LaFrentz center combo averaged a combined 16 points per game. That's not what i would call "not to manny posts.

Quote:
offensive philosophy wouldn't change for the Mavs with the addition of Wallace
I would strongly disagree. We would no longer be able to put 4 all star level scorers on the floor at the same time.

Quote:
don't think you can assume that the per game scoring would decrease drastically.
How can you lose 2 huge offensive options and not see decrease? If you're talking about last year, I might agree that it wouldn't decrease drastically. I would also say that our points allowed wouldn't decrease drastically. We would however be a much worse team in the clutch. We loose 2 very good clutch players and recieve one very poor one.
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Old 11-01-2003, 04:12 PM   #56
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: 4cwebb
Quote:
Originally posted by: bogey
It may be unlikely that they get similar averages, but it is reasonable to assume they will produce at or near their career averages or last seasons results. Besides, you need a point of reference.
If they had a line for that in Vegas, I'd take that bet. I doubt either player will average the number of points that he averaged last season. Plus, that discounts the fact that Dirk seems to be the type of scorer that can average close to or over 28 points a game if he gets more shots.

OK lowball view:

Mavs gain 6.9 points from Wallace and loose 10.3 pts from Fin and 12.5 points from Walker. That equals a negative 15.6 points a game.

Now Mavs gain 13.5 rebounds per game from Wallace but loose 6.8 rebounds from Fin and 8.2 rebounds from Walker. That equals a negative 1.5 rebounds per game.

Let's say that we get 1 more possesion each game for each 1.5 rebounds and score .4 points on each possesion. That gives us .4 points per game less. But since we were at -15.6 we're still down 16.0 points.

It still sucks.



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Old 11-01-2003, 04:13 PM   #57
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

the mavs big five simply aren't going to average over 100 points..which, they'd do if they reached their scoring output from last year.

you don't just say...
trade jamison for wallace
losing jamison means -20 points per game for the mavs
adding wallace means + 7 points per game for the mavs

you don't come up with the mavs scoring 13 points less than they otherwise would have... you can bet that wallace will hit around 50% of his putbacks..and you can bet that finley, walker, nash, and dirk would all get more attempts per game.

and no, you wouldn't say
trade jamison -7 rebounds per game
add wallce +15.4 rebounds for the game for the mavs..

It's not a net result of +8.4 rebounds for the mavs.

and no, bogey...trust me, i know this wasn't what you were implying.

however, how much would any of you actually expect the mavs offense to suffer? How much would it hurt the mavs offense to have only 4 great scoring options instead of five...especially since the scoring option that they added is better than the 4th option they had last year when the mavs led the league in scoring..

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Old 11-01-2003, 04:30 PM   #58
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Not to mention the fact that the Mavs have been the top scoring offense in the league the last two years without 4 all star level scorers. The Mavs have proven that three quality scorers are enough to give you the highest output on offense in the league.
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Old 11-01-2003, 05:17 PM   #59
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

You got me thinking with the kurt rambis/dennis rodman comments.


Rambis: No contest. At his peak only averaged 23 minutes a game. Looks like he was used sort of like eddie/fortson will be.
Kurt Rambis Stats

Rodman: A potential there. He at least averaged 31 minutes a game. A rebounding stud no doubt. So rodman looks like an anomally,
A horrible offensive player on championship teams. Boy he was an offensive rebounding machine good grief 5.0 per game and many times close to 6.

Wallace can't quite touch dennis yet. needs another 3 rpg to catch him.
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Old 11-01-2003, 05:23 PM   #60
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: dude1394
You got me thinking with the kurt rambis/dennis rodman comments.


Rambis: No contest. At his peak only averaged 23 minutes a game. Looks like he was used sort of like eddie/fortson will be.
Kurt Rambis Stats

Rodman: A potential there. He at least averaged 31 minutes a game. A rebounding stud no doubt. So rodman looks like an anomally,
A horrible offensive player on championship teams. Boy he was an offensive rebounding machine good grief 5.0 per game and many times close to 6.

Wallace can't quite touch dennis yet. needs another 3 rpg to catch him.
I'd take Rodman in his prime over Wallace as well..but, Rodman is one of the better combo rebounders/defenders in the history of the game.

However, wallace is definitely the closest thing to Rodman currently in the NBA.

And you're right, Rambis is more along the lines of a Najera.. however, I'd devinitely say that Rambis was significantly better than najera..

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Old 11-01-2003, 05:29 PM   #61
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Agreed... .The question would be is if he would actually be the person to put the mavs over the top against shaq/kobe...duncan...??...

I don't know.... Certainly dennis/wallace were difference makers but only in the context of a team already either loaded... Maybe he would work..

At any rate, I'd probably give up jamison for him. But no more than that.
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Old 11-01-2003, 05:34 PM   #62
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

he'd be a huge difference maker..would he put the mavs over the top? well, there's no telling. the mavs have a chance right now to win a title..with wallace for jamison, they'd obviously be significantly better defensively without being that much worse off offensively. they'd still be a contender for the title..just with a better shot
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Old 11-01-2003, 06:31 PM   #63
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: dude1394
Agreed... .The question would be is if he would actually be the person to put the mavs over the top against shaq/kobe...duncan...??...

I don't know.... Certainly dennis/wallace were difference makers but only in the context of a team already either loaded... Maybe he would work..

At any rate, I'd probably give up jamison for him. But no more than that.
Fair point re: Rambis. I'll admit that I didn't pay as much attention to pro basketball as I do now, so I didn't realize that Rambis played so little per game.

And, while you might only give Jamison, I would guess that Cuban would give Jamison and another quality player (maybe Finley) for a guy like Wallace.
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Old 11-02-2003, 04:38 PM   #64
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

I know I'm walking into this thread late, but I had to point this out.

Other than Ben Wallace, the Pistons really don't have any outstanding defensive players. In fact, other than Ben Wallace, they really don't have any very good defensive players. Last year they did, in Michael Curry and Cliff Robinson, but this year they really don't. Yet, they look to be a very good defensive team again this year.

Just some food for thought.

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Old 11-02-2003, 05:07 PM   #65
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

but, he wouldn't make much of a difference on the cowboys defensively.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

I don't think people realize how much a really, really good interior defender would help out any team

let me add something...actually, most people do realize this..but, for some reason there's a couple that don't
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Old 11-02-2003, 06:20 PM   #66
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
but, he wouldn't make much of a difference on the cowboys defensively.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

I don't think people realize how much a really, really good interior defender would help out any team

let me add something...actually, most people do realize this..but, for some reason there's a couple that don't
Wow Murphy if it's so obvious that Ben would turn the Mavs into a defensive powerhouse, then why is it so hard for you to come up with any arguments other than "it's obvious" or "it's my opinion" or "it's my opinion that most people believe this"? Why is there no answer how Ben would make a difference when if he left his man to block a shot that all the other team needs to do is pass the ball to Ben's man for a layup. Without the Mavs getting down their defensive rotations. At best Big Ben would just force another pass on help D and not get beatup as bad by Shaq and Duncan when guarding them as our other defenders do. Of course I'm open to hearing arguments how this wouldn't be the case.


Quote:
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I know I'm walking into this thread late, but I had to point this out.

Other than Ben Wallace, the Pistons really don't have any outstanding defensive players. In fact, other than Ben Wallace, they really don't have any very good defensive players. Last year they did, in Michael Curry and Cliff Robinson, but this year they really don't. Yet, they look to be a very good defensive team again this year.

Just some food for thought.

KG I haven't gotten the opportunity to see Detroit play yet this year. They do appear to be doing very well as a team defensively from looking at the box scores though. And I would agree that Ben is probably the only very good defender on the team. However I would be willing to be that the rest of the team is probably playing good team D and making their rotations for the most part. If the Mavs could learn to play good team D then they could take more advantage of a great lowpost defender. However, without the rotations being there on defense, the team will be vunerable when the post defender leaves his man to help on D. Still Ben or any other premier defender would definitely make improvements to the Mavs defense. But would it be enough to make up for what we would have to give up to get them? Without the Mavs learning to play better team D I would say no.


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Old 11-02-2003, 09:37 PM   #67
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

I have read this thread and the more and more I think about it, I just don't see HOW you can get Ben Wallace from Detroit. I have ran and reran trades trying to come up with something that would Please both sides and it just ain't there. Wallace is to their team as to what Dirk is to our team. How do you trade away your Franchise player? So without further crapola, this is the closest thing I could come up with:

Dallas trades:
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)
PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)
Dallas receives:
PF Ben Wallace (6.9 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Bob Sura (7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 20.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -16.9 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and -4.2 apg.

Detroit trades:
PF Ben Wallace (6.9 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Bob Sura (7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 20.6 minutes)
Detroit receives:
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 48 games)
C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 81 games)
PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: +16.9 ppg, -4.9 rpg, and +4.2 apg.

Now I know the first thing you are going to say, how in the hell could you trade away Nash? Well you have to give something to get something. There is nothing on the Dallas team that Detroit needs other than maybe Walker aka Instant Offense but his contract is so high they wouldn't do it. Bradley would flourish in the (L)eastern Conference so theres no problem there. Najera is a throwin. (don't shoot me chiwas)

Now you wanna know the trade kicker? Detroit wouldn't do this trade because Nash would bolt come summertime and than they would only get Bradley and Najera for Wallace. On top of that Dirk would be an emotional train wreck and no telling if he would "ever" recover.

Hmmmm, I wonder if Cuban could just resign him for the full MLE next summer and than just SLIDE some money into an offshore Account in the Caymans aka Under the table for Nash? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:34 AM   #68
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
KG I haven't gotten the opportunity to see Detroit play yet this year. They do appear to be doing very well as a team defensively from looking at the box scores though. And I would agree that Ben is probably the only very good defender on the team. However I would be willing to be that the rest of the team is probably playing good team D and making their rotations for the most part. If the Mavs could learn to play good team D then they could take more advantage of a great lowpost defender. However, without the rotations being there on defense, the team will be vunerable when the post defender leaves his man to help on D. Still Ben or any other premier defender would definitely make improvements to the Mavs defense. But would it be enough to make up for what we would have to give up to get them? Without the Mavs learning to play better team D I would say no.
I guess my point was that teams somehow tend to play better team defense when they have a great individual defender (or two or three) in the mix. Sure, the rest of the Mavericks have to make good defensive rotations and play good team defense. But Wallace would certainly make that proposition a lot easier. Wallace is a mixture of Bradley's shotblocking with tremendous athleticism, strength, and quickness. Wallace would be the great eraser. Everybody plays better defense knowing they have a player like that behind them. Heck, that's why the Mavericks play their best defense with Bradley in the middle, even though he's not on Wallace's level defensively.

Your initial argument was that Wallace really wouldn't improve the team substantially on defense. I think that's just incorrect. On the other hand, the question of how in the world Wallace could be acquired is a legitimate one. I don't think there's any way Joe Dumars would give up Wallace unless Nowitzki was in the return package.

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Old 11-03-2003, 09:38 AM   #69
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
I guess my point was that teams somehow tend to play better team defense when they have a great individual defender (or two or three) in the mix.
Especially when it's a center.
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:44 AM   #70
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Sorry buddy, but this will never happen. Ben Wallace <u>IS</u> the franchise. They will continue to build the team around him for many years to come. Maybe Darko, but definitley not Big Ben!
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:54 AM   #71
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

I don't think anyone realistically does believe that it'll happen, buddy.
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:56 AM   #72
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

What is up with all thiese 'what-if" scenarios.
What if MJ comes back and leads The Mavs to a ring?
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:06 AM   #73
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Default RE: How about this for Ben Wallace?

I think Dallas has a better chance at getting Jordan than they do at Wallace! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:08 AM   #74
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Debates and discussions like this are a common occurrence when talking sports.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:09 AM   #75
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Debates and discussions like this are a common occurrence when talking sports.
Yes, but let's be reasonable...

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Old 11-03-2003, 10:13 AM   #76
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Read the thread. I believe that most people are. If you have a problem with someone being unreasonable, you should have the decency to specifically mention their name/quote in your comments. Otherwise, you're just bogging down the current conversation by throwing out your generalizations.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:15 AM   #77
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Read the thread. I believe that most people are. If you have a problem with someone being unreasonable, you should have the decency to specifically mention their name/quote in your comments. Otherwise, you're just bogging down the current conversation by throwing out your generalizations.
Who's griping now MurphMan?
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:21 AM   #78
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

MavsFanatik33 - If you don't like "what ifs" like this, don't participate.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:27 AM   #79
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

Quote:
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
MavsFanatik33 - If you don't like "what ifs" like this, don't participate.
Ok,fine. Jamison for Wallace straight up would be the best option for the Mavs. We finally get the center we need and we don't give up a starter. There's no way Detroit would EVER do this though.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:46 AM   #80
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Default RE:How about this for Ben Wallace?

I'd probably give Finley and Jamison to get Wallace, but I doubt the Pistons would even do that. I'm still convinced it would take Nowitzki, and that will never happen.

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