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Old 05-25-2013, 01:19 PM   #41
ribosoma
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Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship View Post
I can't hold your hand. If you don't want to learn you don't want to learn.



Is that the guy who wants to go back to gold standard depressions? He wants the economy to collapse, right?
Yes, the guy who has lectured on the fallacy of returning to the gold standard wants to bring back the gold standard. And, as an Economics professor, he just can't wait for the economy to collapse, which is why he is lecturing economists around the world in ways to heal the economy.

Literally, the very first video you see at the top of the page when you Google "Steve Keen" is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-N0EnY0qjI

Who needs their hand held, again?

Last edited by ribosoma; 05-25-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:20 PM   #42
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So what was your point with the following then, ribosoma?

"Since the Fed's inception, the value of the U.S. dollar has dropped by 97%."
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #43
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So what was your point with the following then, ribosoma?

"Since the Fed's inception, the value of the U.S. dollar has dropped by 97%."
I was simply stating a fact. The Neoclassical economic model employed by the apologists for the Fed is horribly flawed. It ignores factors like fraud and assumes that the magical, wondrous marketplace will somehow police itself. Besides ignoring fraud, the Neoclassical model also ignores MONEY, DEBT, BANKS, and ENERGY. All crucial factors for evaluating the economy with any level of lucidity.

If you watch some of Keen's lectures, he exposes how Keynsian economics was gutted and replaced with an system that allows for manipulation. Although he doesn't go so far as to say that this model was designed specifically for this purpose in said lectures, he does just that in a few radio and podcast interviews I have listened to. Which seems to be a logical conclusion, in my opinion.

Your approach to dialogue seems to be rooted in setting up false dichotomies. If I question the Fed, I must therefore be a TeaParty member who wants to return to a gold standard. It's laughable, really. Most of the people posting in this political section do the same thing (which points to the overall effectiveness of the systems of conditioning we are marinating in these days), so you're far from unique in your approach. Most of the arguments here are from points of ignorance. I doubt highly that anyone here has the skins on the wall to vigorously defend or attack any ideas relating to politics, especially when the arguments that they present are usually from clearly biased sources designed to perpetuate the false left/right, divide-and-rule paradigm we see everywhere in the mainstream, corporate media nowadays.

If gaining wisdom were the true pursuit of discourse here,we wouldn't see every discussion devolve into a bevy of logical fallacies like they do. Once people latch onto an ideology, it takes some level of integrity to see the flaws it may have and admit that it no longer serves us to prop it up and identify with it.
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:27 PM   #44
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I can see now you're well worth listening too. Your history of trolling suggested otherwise.

Where I disagree with you is in the entity responsible for patrolling. Sure, there was plenty hubris during the Greenspan days (and way too many haven't learned from the de-reg mistakes), but it is not the job of the Fed to police risk (yet). You go down that path & you're risking an unelected official deciding "too much" and bankrupting select "too much risk" companies overnight. If you have not yet, read up on their eye on mREITS and you'll see what I mean.

Bottom line IMO is congress needs to quit being mindless dicks and keep regulation up with the times. I actually have hope for a positive outcome in all this, for 20 or so years anyway, because of the money market debate that no one paid attention to. It was very sensible.
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:31 PM   #45
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I'm also intrigued by Brian Westbury & Hussman's inflation measurement suggestions, but I'm very skeptic of forming policy around limiting factors. Commodities such as oil don't fit we'll into capitalist theories, since we can't invent energy or elements.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #46
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The burden of proof regarding your interpretation of the Bernanke quote lies on you. It wasn't a discussion between Friedman and Bernanke, it was a speech given by Bernanke alone. If you choose to bend the context to fit your worldview, that's fine, but it's conjecture, and therefore not worthy of any serious discussion.
Milton Friedman was teh founder of the monetarist school of economics. In one of his seminal papers (written with his eventual wife) he proposed that the major cause of the Great Depression (the 1930s one) was a failure of the central banks of the time to have an appropriate monetary response to the original shock to the economy (the stock market crash and subsequent bank pressures). The money authorities at the time were very worried about the health of the banks, and about widespread bank failures, and their response was to increase the reserve requirements imposed on banks. This had the effect of severely cutting back money supply, just as the economy was contracting, ---leading to the the economy contracting even more, and for an expanded period of time---- voila, recession becomes great depression.

Bernanke was tipping his hat to that seminal paper. Every single economist in the country reecognized this fact... it is entirely uncontroversial. (Bernanke did not take the next ste and agree with Uncle Milty and the monetarists that Monetary Policy failures were the root cause of all economic fluctuations)
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mcsluggo View Post
Milton Friedman was teh founder of the monetarist school of economics. In one of his seminal papers (written with his eventual wife) he proposed that the major cause of the Great Depression (the 1930s one) was a failure of the central banks of the time to have an appropriate monetary response to the original shock to the economy (the stock market crash and subsequent bank pressures). The money authorities at the time were very worried about the health of the banks, and about widespread bank failures, and their response was to increase the reserve requirements imposed on banks. This had the effect of severely cutting back money supply, just as the economy was contracting, ---leading to the the economy contracting even more, and for an expanded period of time---- voila, recession becomes great depression.

Bernanke was tipping his hat to that seminal paper. Every single economist in the country reecognized this fact... it is entirely uncontroversial. (Bernanke did not take the next ste and agree with Uncle Milty and the monetarists that Monetary Policy failures were the root cause of all economic fluctuations)
See above. I'm very familiar with the official interpretation of history as told by those who make it happen. I've read my college economics textbooks, as well.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:35 AM   #48
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See above. I'm very familiar with the official interpretation of history as told by those who make it happen. I've read my college economics textbooks, as well.
you seem to be implying that you have made a deeper interpretation of this point somewhere else in this thread... but I am unable to find it.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:44 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mcsluggo View Post
Milton Friedman was teh founder of the monetarist school of economics. In one of his seminal papers (written with his eventual wife) he proposed that the major cause of the Great Depression (the 1930s one) was a failure of the central banks of the time to have an appropriate monetary response to the original shock to the economy (the stock market crash and subsequent bank pressures). The money authorities at the time were very worried about the health of the banks, and about widespread bank failures, and their response was to increase the reserve requirements imposed on banks. This had the effect of severely cutting back money supply, just as the economy was contracting, ---leading to the the economy contracting even more, and for an expanded period of time---- voila, recession becomes great depression.

Bernanke was tipping his hat to that seminal paper. Every single economist in the country reecognized this fact... it is entirely uncontroversial. (Bernanke did not take the next ste and agree with Uncle Milty and the monetarists that Monetary Policy failures were the root cause of all economic fluctuations)
Holy shit! there are two people here who don't have a backwoods interpretation of money? This has never happened in the history of the interworlds.

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Originally Posted by mcsluggo View Post
you seem to be implying that you have made a deeper interpretation of this point somewhere else in this thread... but I am unable to find it.
I could be wrong but I think r's only point was an attack on my flippant faith in the Fed "savior", which is very valid.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:46 PM   #50
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I still never saw even the begining of a coherent thought of an explantion of what he meant (or what he thought he meant). I saw a bunch blogging soundbites cobbled together..... with the hope that a wink at the end would lead the reader to try to fill in his own blanks and make up his own coherent message.


a nice START would be explicitly stating what secret message the following quote was suppose to send ?

Quote:
Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve System. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.

Last edited by mcsluggo; 01-14-2014 at 03:09 PM.
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