Are the Heat the inevitable champs? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 05-12-2011, 04:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Wade did it pretty much by himself in 2006.

Wade had Avery helping

Thespiralgoeson · 05-12-2011, 05:06 PM

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Originally Posted by dude1394

Wade had Avery helping

Very valid point.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-12-2011, 05:07 PM

What I find funny is so many people are already handing the Heat the title including the experts. Let's not forget the Bulls beat them in all three of their meetings this year and Dallas beat them in both of their meetings.

GermanDunk · 05-12-2011, 05:12 PM

Bron is the new model for Audemars http://www.audemarspiguet.com/

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-12-2011, 06:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'll be honest. The Heat worry me a lot. I wouldn't expect the Mavs to beat them in a seven game series. I know they have basically nobody outside for their big 3, but I could easily see Lebron and Wade averaging 70+ in the finals. I think everyone here is smart enough to know what to expect from the officiating. Should they make it to the finals, watch for their FT totals to skyrocket. Also bear in mind that the rotations that worked so well for the Mavs against the Lakers wouldn't work against the Heat. The Mavs wouldn't be able to get away with playing Terry and Barea together for long stretches because one of them would have to guard Wade. I also wouldn't expect Peja to be of much use against the Heat because would have to guard Lebron.

I'm rooting hard for the Bulls to get to the Finals because I think the Mavs, should they win their next series, would have a much better shot against the Bulls than the Heat.

I tend to agree with this. I feel like we'll need a healthy Caron Butler to beat them in a 7 game series. That said, I'm not worrying about the Heat just yet. We still have to beat OKC/Memphis to make it to the finals - lets worry about that first.

dalger · 05-12-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

What I find funny is so many people are already handing the Heat the title including the experts. Let's not forget the Bulls beat them in all three of their meetings this year and Dallas beat them in both of their meetings.

Good point. Miami couldn't get a single win against the Bulls this season and doesn't have homecourt advantage. Now, after the Bulls struggled a bit against the Hawks while Miami took advantage of the mighty 76ers and the rolling Celtics, they're suddenly the big favorites to win it all.

The media is all about extremes these days. Some of its members change their opinion more often than their underwear.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-12-2011, 06:41 PM

It's funny how matchups work. I think Miami could beat the Mavs, Chicaco could beat Miami, and the Mavs could beat Chicago. Sorta like rock-paper-scissors.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-12-2011, 06:48 PM

I honestly don't think Miami is getting past Chicago. Don't get me wrong I think Miami looked spectacular against Boston, but I think Chicago's defense will prove they are able to contain Wade and James plus Bosh has not been playing well.

dalger · 05-12-2011, 07:18 PM

Miami wasn't THAT special on the road in Boston. They lost pretty badly in Game 3 and benefited from the Celtics' inability to make a shot for minutes in the 4th quarter and their exhaustion in overtime. Miami itself didn't make a field goal in the first six minutes of the 4th quarter in Game 4.

I don't mean to take anything away from Miami or underrate them. That said, it's not like they've played jaw-dropping basketball so far. Wade and LeBron have been great, that's pretty much it.

At this point, any team can beat any team.

mavs777 · 05-13-2011, 02:24 AM

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Originally Posted by dalger

Miami wasn't THAT special on the road in Boston. They lost pretty badly in Game 3 and benefited from the Celtics' inability to make a shot for minutes in the 4th quarter and their exhaustion in overtime. Miami itself didn't make a field goal in the first six minutes of the 4th quarter in Game 4.

I don't mean to take anything away from Miami or underrate them. That said, it's not like they've played jaw-dropping basketball so far. Wade and LeBron have been great, that's pretty much it.

At this point, any team can beat any team.

it wasn't just that the celtics missed and were tired, Miami put the clamps down defensivly

Mavsfan4ever · 05-14-2011, 06:18 PM

If Boozer can continue to play like he did in game six of the Hawks series the Bulls should win in six.

I was just watching a discussion on Yahoo Sports. Marc Spears did not come out and say the Mavs would win it all, but he said he felt we should be favored.

Windmill360 · 05-14-2011, 06:54 PM

The mavs winning would probably be the best story for the nba given the heat probably having a solid 5 more years to win a championship, but i still think the heat will be the favorites by the nba to take it this year.

LonghornDub · 05-14-2011, 08:09 PM

This "Heat are a bad matchup for the Mavs" stuff sounds a lot more like strange lingering '06 Heat fear than legitimate X's and O's analysis. I've still yet to hear one reason why the Heat are a bad matchup for the Mavs, other than "Lebron and Wade are really, really good," which is not really matchup analysis since it's true no matter who the Heat play.

It seems the argument is that the Mavs can't defend good wing players, but that's really just not true. The Mavs have done an admirable job of defending elite scoring wing players the past two seasons. Better than pretty much any other team in the league. It's been talked about time and time again around here. Their real weakness is defending fast opposing point guards. That's the Bulls. The Mavs are also are no longer an elite rebounding team. That's the Bulls.

If the evidence tells us anyone is a bad matchup for the Mavs, it's the Bulls. Not the Heat.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-14-2011, 09:10 PM

I decided to look back at the box scores for our two games against Miami this season. The November 27th game Wade played 41:06 minutes had 8-16 FG's, 0-1 3PT, 6-11 FT, and +/- of -8 with a total of 22 points. The same game James played 36:04 minutes had 5-19 FG, 0-4 3PT, 13-15 FT, and +/- of -14 with a total of 23 points.

The December 20th game Wade played 39:05 minutes had 8-17 FG, 3-7 3PT, 3-6 FT, and +/- of +5 with a total of 22 points. The same game James played 36:05 minutes had 6-17 FG, 2-4 3PT, 5-7 FT, and +/- of -20 with a total of 19 points.

The Mavericks side looks like this.

The November 27th game Dirk played 34:17 minutes had 9-23 FG, 1-5 3PT, 3- FT, and +/- of +28 with total of 22 points. The same game JET played 29:07 minutes had 3-12 FG, 1-3 3PT, 5-6 FT, and +/- of +5 with a total of 12 points.

The December 20th game Dirk played 38:41 minutes had 8-21 FG, 0-4 3PT, 10-10 FT, and +/- of +16 with a total of 26 points. The same game JET played 30:42 minutes had 6-15 FG, 3-6 3PT, 4-4 FT, and +/- of -11 with a total of 19 points.

The November 27th game our bench out scored the Miami bench 39-22. On the December 20th game our bench out scored the Miami bench 36-28.

Not saying this translate to success if both Dallas and Miami are lucky enough to make it to the Finals. Just making an argument that we have had success against Wade and James this season.

One final note I did not include Butler in these stats because I have doubts he plays if we make it to the finals.

AO41 · 05-14-2011, 09:33 PM

Wasn't one of those games against Miami where Jet had 19 pts in the 4th and we won??

Mavsfan4ever · 05-14-2011, 09:40 PM

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Originally Posted by AO41

Wasn't one of those games against Miami where Jet had 19 pts in the 4th and we won??

Miami lost both games against Dallas in the regular season. Though the way both teams are playing in the post season this would be a tight series.

kingmalaki · 05-23-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This "Heat are a bad matchup for the Mavs" stuff sounds a lot more like strange lingering '06 Heat fear than legitimate X's and O's analysis. I've still yet to hear one reason why the Heat are a bad matchup for the Mavs, other than "Lebron and Wade are really, really good," which is not really matchup analysis since it's true no matter who the Heat play.

I'll play. I'll start off with what you just mentioned (the bolded part). The Heat would arguably have the best two players on the court, and you guys have no one to match up with them. NO ONE!! Granted, they have no one to match up with Dirk either. But I'm not seeing how you keep those dudes out of the lane.

The Heat have no bench but they can go small against y'all, which is honestly their best lineup and what they prefer. Their team is build to defend and hit open jumpers, and since you guys have no one to make LeBron or Wade work for their points, their role players will get open jumpers. I have more faith in Bosh/Haslem/LeBron hounding Dirk than I do in anyone that you can put on those two guys. Since you don't have a blazing PG, Bibby can actually stay on the court against y'all.

Chandler = Anthony/Big Z
I put = because Chandler really isn't an offensive option. Anthony will just have to bang with Chandler, and he is good at that.

Dirk > Bosh/Haslem
Dirk is going to have to play defense this series though. Either on Bosh, or when the Heat go small and have LeBron at the 4. But both of these guys are better than any defender Dirk has seen this postseason, and LeBron will be covering him at times.

Marion < LeBron
Stevenson/Terry < Wade
Kidd > Bibby
But again, Bibby will be able to stay on the court during this matchup. Now can he hit his open shots...who knows.

You guys have the better bench but their bench players in this series (Haslem/Miller/Jones/Chalmers) will just have to defend and hit open shots.

I think Miami matches up with y'all very well, as far as what their weaknesses are. They struggle with teams with dominant centers and PG's. You don't have that. The series would be decided by whoever can hit the open J's. The series would be tight but I do think the Heat match up well.

Underdog · 05-23-2011, 11:57 PM

To answer the thread question - no, the Heat are not INEVITABLE champs.

Suck it.

LonghornDub · 05-24-2011, 02:24 AM

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Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Chandler = Anthony/Big Z

Stopped reading here.

But don't blame it all on that part. The analysis that proceeded it was awful as well. Understandable since Heat fans have been out of the game since a 2-week stint in summer 2006.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-24-2011, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

I'll play. I'll start off with what you just mentioned (the bolded part). The Heat would arguably have the best two players on the court,

I stopped reading here.

rabbitproof · 05-24-2011, 03:19 AM

Good will always beat evil (eventually).

BRING IT.

Maringa · 05-24-2011, 09:38 AM

Not considering player match-ups...Other things I like to consider...The Mavs will be considered the clear underdogs by everyone (including myself).
Dallas has had a practice run with a Wade/Lebron style offense in Durant/Westbrook. Same penetrating, fouling action. This experience might help Dallas against Miami. The resurgence of Bosh and Haslem has me slightly worried - I'll know better during the next two games.
Dallas has the previous experience of disappointment with refs, and have shown during the past several games how to overcome that (although not nearly as bad as the refs in 2006). Dirk and Kidd are playing for all or nothing - they are not taking anything for granted. Hopefully they can keep the rest of the team focused. I was a little disappointed in Chandler last night - not leading in defense, and falling for some of the OKC dirty tricks...he should know better than that; however, what they are doing to him is beyond anything that I could stand myself.

In short, I am cheering the Mavs on, hoping that they can they can win because they are the good guys. If they eventually lose to Miami, I hope that they gave it their best shot, laid it all out, with no regrets. To get to that stage and just totally flub and choke, and play unintelligent basketball like they did in 2006, would probably cause me to give up on them, and hope the Cuban would do the right thing and trade Dirk to the team of his choice.

bernardos70 · 05-24-2011, 11:55 AM

The only thing I got from this thread is that any chance of me ever getting an Audemars Piguet, if I ever had the money, are slim to none. IWC FTW.

P.S. Huck the Feat.

alexamenos · 05-24-2011, 12:33 PM

[QUOTE=kingmalaki;1201880]I'll play.[\quote]

Stopped reading there.

Budapest Maverick · 05-24-2011, 12:44 PM

What do you mean we have no one to match up with Lebron and Wade? Check out Wade's numbers since Marion with us, also Lebron's. I'm pretty sure we had some success against them defensively in the last 2 years. Stevenson, and Marion, is as good of a defensive duo for that 2 guy as any you could find, barring Allen and Battier maybe.

Also, Miami as great defensive team as they are, has one weak point in their defense, they're not the best at guarding the 3 point line (9th in the regular season, and even the Bulls with non shooters could lit them up in game 1), on the other hand, the Mavs has the best 3 point shooting in the playoffs. If they would double Dirk (and they better...) our shooters will have open looks. Our frontcourt is vastly better than theirs, and Chandler can guard Bosh, and make his life harder.

Could Miami beat us? Of course, it could happen. Could we beat the Heat? Why not? Both teams would have clear matchup advantages in that series. Anyway, they have to make it to the finals first, neither of the series' are over.

Dirkenstien · 05-24-2011, 01:19 PM

There's really no telling how a Dallas - Miami series would unfold, but what I do know is that I am seething at the prospect of seeing Dirk, Terry, Kidd, and the rest of this formidable and determined Dallas team getting a chance to take down that evil empire.

A lot of NBA fans have fallen in love with Dirk this playoffs and a lot of NBA fans want to see guys like Kidd, Marion, Stojakovic, and others finally win a ring. Likewise, many NBA fans despise Lebron, Bosh, and Wade and want nothing more than to see them knocked out of the race.

With the exception of the city of Miami, the country would be behind us, anxious to witness greatness and fate intertwine into beautiful poetic justice for Dallas in the form of a championship over the team that robbed them of their first attempt. No doubt, beating Miami this year would hurt them far greater than had we beat them in 2006.

I want Dirk and this Dallas team to have that chance. Prospects of losing in the Finals again be damned.

Maringa · 05-24-2011, 03:06 PM

You know, many of us were wanting to play against Memphis in the Western Conference Finals, but I think playing against OKC has been a blessing in disguise. Obviously Lebron is > than Durant and Wade is > than Westbrook, but they are similar in many ways. Also sprinkle in some of the way that Durant and Westbrook were able to draw fouls, Dallas experienced some of the one sided foul calls and survived. Then you get tough defenders in Ibaka, Thabo and Collison, you have the Udonis style of defense and support scoring. The only thing is covering a third scorer in Bosh...Not sure how we will handle that.

Chances are the Mavs still lose a 7 game series, but at least they (hopefully) won't look so inept as Chicago.

MaverickOutlaw · 05-24-2011, 04:48 PM

I rather Mavs play the heat and get sweet revenge.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-24-2011, 06:03 PM

If Trix and Stevenson continue to play as they have the last two games I feel they could match up well with James and Wade.

LonghornDub · 05-24-2011, 06:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Maringa

Chances are the Mavs still lose a 7 game series

Says who?

bernardos70 · 05-24-2011, 06:33 PM

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Originally Posted by alexamenos

Stopped reading there.

I beat all of you to the punch.

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This message is hidden because kingmalaki is on your ignore list.

And I haven't put someone in my ignore list in a very long time. Which means that his history of saying stupid shit is not new.

pwd81 · 05-24-2011, 11:14 PM

David versus Goliath. History tells us David has a pretty good shot.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-24-2011, 11:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

If Trix and Stevenson continue to play as they have the last two games I feel they could match up well with James and Wade.

Stevenson is an offensive liability. We're not going to be able to keep him on the floor for too long.

sefant77 · 05-24-2011, 11:19 PM

Stevenson and Marion vs Wade/James is fine, thats more than solid defense.

Our (HUGE) problem would be:
Wade and James playing 40+min and we need to bring Terry/Peja on the court for offense/points.

Thats why Butler would be huge, you get a solid scoring option with solid defense

pwd81 · 05-24-2011, 11:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Stevenson is an offensive liability. We're not going to be able to keep him on the floor for too long.

Seems to me he's hit some threes and doesn't take that many. I like his defense. He brings the balls every game. Suck it up, nancy.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-24-2011, 11:33 PM

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Originally Posted by pwd81

Seems to me he's hit some threes and doesn't take that many. I like his defense.

I like his defense too, but he brings very little to the table offensively.

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He brings the balls every game.

Uh... good to know, I guess.

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Suck it up, nancy.

Sure thing. You eat a bag of dicks and we'll call it even.

pwd81 · 05-24-2011, 11:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I like his defense too, but he brings very little to the table offensively.

Uh... good to know, I guess.

Sure thing. You eat a bag of dicks and we'll call it even.

Okay, even. GO MAVS! BAG O' DICKS FTW!

LonghornDub · 05-24-2011, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Stevenson is an offensive liability. We're not going to be able to keep him on the floor for too long.

The strong majority of roleplayers are either offensive or defensive liabilities. The key is to put them in a position to maximize their strengths. Steve is good enough to stay on the court for solid time if he plays smart and doesn't take bad threes.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-24-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The strong majority of roleplayers are either offensive or defensive liabilities. The key is to put them in a position to maximize their strengths. Steve is good enough to stay on the court for solid time if he plays smart and doesn't take bad threes.

Oh, I understand. I just have the same concern as sefant; Wade and Lebron are probably going to play 40+ minutes each. We can't have Deshawn out there that long without suffering on offense, which means we're going to have to live with Terry guarding Wade for stretches. Same with Lebron/Peja.

pwd81 · 05-24-2011, 11:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Oh, I understand. I just have the same concern as sefant; Wade and Lebron are probably going to play 40+ minutes each. We can't have Deshawn out there that long without suffering on offense, which means we're going to have to live with Terry guarding Wade for stretches. Same with Lebron/Peja.

Defense on Wade will be by committee until crunch time anyway. And we will be alive in crunch time. And I like our matchups in crunch time...

Kidd on Wade
Marion on LeBron
Terry on Miller
Nowitzki on Haslem
Chandler on Bosh

I LIKE our matchups, nancy pants.