damp traded for tyson chandler - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Harrington definite makes the roster even more interesting if he comes on board...I really wonder how they would balance the rotation. You can go different ways, depending on if Roddy starts at SG or not...

As Male29Dan said, there is a ton of congestion at the two guard spots and the small forward. Likely, someone would need to move. Its hard to get the minutes each player needs when you have Harrington, Marion, Butler, Kidd, Terry, Beaubois, and possibly Barea all factoring into the rotation.

My pick would be to remove JET. I don't know how that would happen, but it'd be my choice. It'd be dumb to say he doesn't bring anything to the table, because he did average 15 ppg last year, but that's all he really is. A volume shooter/scorer who occasionally can get some steals. That's all he is.

And let's not forget that Harrington still actually has to sign here. Certainly, he would prefer to get more than the MLE, and there are some teams out there who can overpay for him. He's been with bad teams the past few years, so maybe he's ready for a change, but even then he might be able to find a contender who has a starting role for him. I hope he signs, but there are some signs that would point to him going elsewhere.

Male30Dan · 07-13-2010, 04:17 PM

Without a trade and without Roddy starting, this is what you are looking at:

Kidd/Roddy/JJB
Butler/Jet/Roddy/Jones
Marion/Harrington/Stevenson
Dirk/Harrington/Chandler
Haywood/Chandler/Prospects

One guy out of position and 3 guys coming off the bench expected to catch and release. Sigh, I sure hope something good happens by the deadline, because this team as currently constructed isn't going any further than it did last year.

Hopefully Caplan's "glass half-full" take is more the truth than MacMahon's "glass half-empty" approach, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. 30M in expirings is pretty cool to have though - that is 2 max contracts. I just wish we could flip them prior to the season starting (at least most of the expirings anyway).

dalmations202 · 07-13-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Harrington definite makes the roster even more interesting if he comes on board...I really wonder how they would balance the rotation. You can go different ways, depending on if Roddy starts at SG or not...

Not trying to bag on you BG, just asking a question..

Why would Dallas start Roddy at the SG? I mean he is undersized and can't guard the Kobe, DWades, etc.

I am not ripping Roddy. It just seems to me that they are trying to train him up to start at PG allowing Kidd to keep his legs fresher this year.

Roddy, Butler, Marion, Dirk, Haywood is a pretty legit starting 5 against anyone. Kidd, Terry (as the shooter), Harrington, Chandler would be a savy next 4. If the rookie Jones, and the two project Bigs give them anything it is gravy. Stevenson as the defensive lock down guy against some of the big slashers.

Maybe Harrington and Marion switch places (which I think they should), but overall that is a pretty sound lineup, IMO.

bobatundi · 07-13-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The Bobcats have a trade exception.

Even better would be if it were two trades. Damp for Chandler and Ajinca; then Charlotte waives Damp, and has enough cap room for us to trade them Carroll & Najera for a conditional 2nd round pick. That would give us a $7.1 MM trade exception.

I like the deal. Couldn't get what they wanted for Damp right now, so bank another expiring, who is much younger and could have some upside (but at worst is the same player as Damp). If Chandler becomes a stud, Haywood is trade bait; otherwise, Chandler is. Chandler + Stevenson + JJB + Butler all expiring, plus Terry not fully guaranteed for 2011. Lots of trade chips. Add in a TE and we're sitting even prettier. Meanwhile, we unload two very undesirable pieces that would have been obstacles to most trades.

Jack.Kerr · 07-13-2010, 04:21 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...t_clipped.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ks_knic-2.html

Al Harrington is the kind of guy who loses you games (that's games, plural, not one, but TWO), by getting called for a technical foul for hanging on the rim and slapping the backboard at the end of the game. Twice in two months. Against the same team.

jthig32 · 07-13-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You have seen correctly. He is an awful defender and doesn't care about defense. Like I said, he's also a notorious ballhog and ego case. That said, I'd take him because, quite frankly, our bench needs a guy that can and will score. Roddy, JJB, Terry, DeShawn, Ian, AA, Chandler. That bench has absolutely NO scoring from a 3, 4, or 5. So he could be beneficial.

Ego case doesn't generally bother me too much. He's older now and people tend to fit into this team.

He's definitely been a ball hog in the past and a volume shooter. But as _c pointed out, he's played several seasons for Carlisle in the past so I imagine he has signed off on the idea.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Without a trade and without Roddy starting, this is what you are looking at:

Kidd/Roddy/JJB
Butler/Jet/Jones
Marion/Harrington/Stevenson
Dirk/Harrington/Chandler
Haywood/Chandler/Prospects

One guy out of position and 3 guys coming off the bench expected to catch and release. Sigh, I sure hope something good by the deadline, because this team as currently constructed isn't going any further than it did last year.

Hopefully Caplan's "glass half-full" take is more the truth than MacMahon's "glass half-empty" approach, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. 30M in expirings is pretty cool to have though - that is 2 max contracts. I just wish we could flip them prior to the season starting (at least most of the expirings anyway).

You don't think that's a solid lineup. Its better than the one last year and that one was the 2nd seed in the West, regardless of what they did in the postseason.

Harrington provides more scoring off the bench, coupled an improved Roddy who can create and score, and JET can still knock down the open shot from time to time.

I fully expect Butler to have a bounce back year, after losing a little weight and having the summer and training camp to incorporate to the team.

Haywood/Chandler plus two young guys who can be energy guys is a much better combo than Damp/Gooden that we were rolling out at the start of last year.

I'm definitely a glass half full guy, but I don't think this is just optimism. This team is better than they were, and have the strong hope of reinforcements at the trade deadline.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Even better would be if it were two trades. Damp for Chandler and Ajinca; then Charlotte waives Damp, and has enough cap room for us to trade them Carroll & Najera for a conditional 2nd round pick. That would give us a $7.1 MM trade exception.

I like the deal. Couldn't get what they wanted for Damp right now, so bank another expiring, who is much younger and could have some upside (but at worst is the same player as Damp). If Chandler becomes a stud, Haywood is trade bait; otherwise, Chandler is. Chandler + Stevenson + JJB + Butler all expiring, plus Terry not fully guaranteed for 2011. Lots of trade chips. Add in a TE and we're sitting even prettier. Meanwhile, we unload two very undesirable pieces that would have been obstacles to most trades.

This is why I like this trade so much - we're extremely financially flexible right now.

92bDad · 07-13-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Completely unrelated factoid: by my count Dallas is now sitting on over 34 million in expiring contracts (if you include the non-guaranteed portion of the last year of JET's deal).

Here we go, the Mavs are setting themselves up for the big FA year and clearing off space to attract the top guys...oh wait, didn't that just happen.

This has, no doubt been one of the most disappointing offseasons todate...

Many here, just might get there wish...I am so close to quitting the NBA as a fan and if so, I'll have to retire from this board...all we need is a few more lack luster moves by the Mavs and a few more conspiracy moves by the league...heck just one more will probably do it for me...

Probably the only thing keeping me vaguely interested is the possibility of a French guy or two succeeding in Dallas!!!

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You have seen correctly. He is an awful defender and doesn't care about defense. Like I said, he's also a notorious ballhog and ego case. That said, I'd take him because, quite frankly, our bench needs a guy that can and will score. Roddy, JJB, Terry, DeShawn, Ian, AA, Chandler. That bench has absolutely NO scoring from a 3, 4, or 5. So he could be beneficial.

I'm not going to say Ajinca is a scorer, but I read that he does has range out to the 3 point line and a solid righty jump hook. The places he needs to develop is as a man to man defender and as a rebounder.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...t_clipped.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ks_knic-2.html

Al Harrington is the kind of guy who loses you games (that's games, plural, not one, but TWO), by getting called for a technical foul for hanging on the rim and slapping the backboard at the end of the game. Twice in two months. Against the same team.

He's a bit of a headcase, but he provides scoring we desperately need. 18 ppg last year. That will certainly drop, but his shooting percentages should rise and he can be a go to guy when the bench is in for short stretches.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-13-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Here we go, the Mavs are setting themselves up for the big FA year and clearing off space to attract the top guys...oh wait, didn't that just happen.

CARMELO!

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Not trying to bag on you BG, just asking a question..

Why would Dallas start Roddy at the SG? I mean he is undersized and can't guard the Kobe, DWades, etc.

I am not ripping Roddy. It just seems to me that they are trying to train him up to start at PG allowing Kidd to keep his legs fresher this year.

Roddy, Butler, Marion, Dirk, Haywood is a pretty legit starting 5 against anyone. Kidd, Terry (as the shooter), Harrington, Chandler would be a savy next 4. If the rookie Jones, and the two project Bigs give them anything it is gravy. Stevenson as the defensive lock down guy against some of the big slashers.

Maybe Harrington and Marion switch places (which I think they should), but overall that is a pretty sound lineup, IMO.

Because Carlisle alluded to him being a starter:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...y-b-as-starter

He's not going to start over Kidd, so that logically leaves SG. He played much better next to Kidd as opposed to Barea or Jet. It's not even a given Roddy would have to guard those players you mentioned, that's why we have Marion and even to an extend Kidd.

You could move Butler to the bench and get scoring punch.

CadBane · 07-13-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I'm not going to say Ajinca is a scorer, but I read that he does has range out to the 3 point line and a solid righty jump hook. The places he needs to develop is as a man to man defender and as a rebounder.

I don't think AA will get much PT honestly. He's probably behind Ian on the depth chart. He was very raw when he got occasional minutes with the Bobcats last year. I'd like to see what kind of offensive game Ian has though.

Dirkenstien · 07-13-2010, 04:31 PM

I'm depressed.

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...t_clipped.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ks_knic-2.html

Al Harrington is the kind of guy who loses you games (that's games, plural, not one, but TWO), by getting called for a technical foul for hanging on the rim and slapping the backboard at the end of the game. Twice in two months. Against the same team.

haha. that's priceless. thanks for that.

Rick41 · 07-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...t_clipped.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ks_knic-2.html

Al Harrington is the kind of guy who loses you games (that's games, plural, not one, but TWO), by getting called for a technical foul for hanging on the rim and slapping the backboard at the end of the game. Twice in two months. Against the same team.

Yeah, but those are the Knicks. Donnie and Cuban won't put up with that kind of crap here.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I don't think AA will get much PT honestly. He's probably behind Ian on the depth chart. He was very raw when he got occasional minutes with the Bobcats last year. I'd like to see what kind of offensive game Ian has though.

I agree with you, I think Mahinmi is more polished and more likely to play in an energy, Ryan Hollins-like role. I'm just saying that Ajinca does possess some offense if he ever did get minutes, at least according to draft express.

CadBane · 07-13-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I agree with you, I think Mahinmi is more polished and more likely to play in an energy, Ryan Hollins-like role. I'm just saying that Ajinca does possess some offense if he ever did get minutes, at least according to draft express.

He's been playing in summer league for the Cats this year, I will have to go check out his stats.

Usually Lurkin · 07-13-2010, 04:38 PM

great. after all the talk of impact players and big splashes and preparing for championships, the DUST chip is traded for: savings.

dalmations202 · 07-13-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Because Carlisle alluded to him being a starter:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...y-b-as-starter

He's not going to start over Kidd, so that logically leaves SG. He played much better next to Kidd as opposed to Barea or Jet. It's not even a given Roddy would have to guard those players you mentioned, that's why we have Marion and even to an extend Kidd.

You could move Butler to the bench and get scoring punch.

I am not sure why Kidd can't go to the bench. Kidd alluded to it this summer.
The article talks out of both sides of the writers mouth -- a Kidd, Roddy backcourt then says, "Beaubois will focus primarily on developing as a point guard this offseason"

If he develops as the point guard...ala Devin Harris -- then Kidd can keep his legs fresh for playoff time. If Roddy starts at the SG he is highly undersized for guarding the slashing SG's, and Kidd can't keep up with them anymore.

IMO, Dallas is better off trying to keep Roddy in front of the quick PG's that are on fresh legs early in the game, instead of Kidd trying to keep up with them. It should improve the D and possibly improve the O as well, since they should start the game establishing Dirk, and the options that are available like Roddy isolation, and hopefully Harrington/Marion on the low blocks.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 04:46 PM

I'm sick inside. Maybe I overrated the dust chip. I thought Chandler could've been had for just about anything. HE's not healthy. He's overpaid.

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am not sure why Kidd can't go to the bench. Kidd alluded to it this summer.
The article talks out of both sides of the writers mouth -- a Kidd, Roddy backcourt then says, "Beaubois will focus primarily on developing as a point guard this offseason"

If he develops as the point guard...ala Devin Harris -- then Kidd can keep his legs fresh for playoff time. If Roddy starts at the SG he is highly undersized for guarding the slashing SG's, and Kidd can't keep up with them anymore.

IMO, Dallas is better off trying to keep Roddy in front of the quick PG's that are on fresh legs early in the game, instead of Kidd trying to keep up with them. It should improve the D and possibly improve the O as well, since they should start the game establishing Dirk, and the options that are available like Roddy isolation, and hopefully Harrington/Marion on the low blocks.

Judging by the summer league games, he's not ready to be a PG.
He can easily play SG and still play in front of those PGs like you want and Kidd and Marion can take the bigger assignment.

Kidd only alluded to coming off the bench some of the time, not all the time.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'm sick inside. Maybe I overrated the dust chip. I thought Chandler could've been had for just about anything. HE's not healthy. He's overpaid.

Are you Mike Fisher?

We traded one chip for another and unloaded some bad contracts - we lived to fight another day and could amass ~$30mil in assets when all is said & done...

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Matt Barnes and Rasual Butler were both horrible from 3pt. range last year.

Barnes can really defend though, and would give us 2 very good perimeter defenders

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 04:53 PM

jamyoa likes the trade. for whatever that is worth...

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Barnes can really defend though, and would give us 2 very good perimeter defenders

i really like Barnes and have been wanting the Mavs to sign him for the last 3 offseasons. i was just pointing out in relation to someone's post above that he shot like 31%from 3 last year.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Are you Mike Fisher?

We traded one chip for another and unloaded some bad contracts - we lived to fight another day and could amass ~$30mil in assets when all is said & done...

I don't know when Dirk decided to re-sign with us I thought it was because the front office promised him immediate upgrade. I thought that was why he re-signed with us so fast.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't know when Dirk decided to re-sign with us I thought it was because the front office promised him immediate upgrade. I thought that was why he re-signed with us so fast.

still hammering away with this?

clutch#41 · 07-13-2010, 04:57 PM

badass trade.i love it. we are defiantely better than last year..
no more matt carrol and damp..whats not to love about this?? lol

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Judging by the summer league games, he's not ready to be a PG.
He can easily play SG and still play in front of those PGs like you want and Kidd and Marion can take the bigger assignment.

Kidd only alluded to coming off the bench some of the time, not all the time.

I agree 100%. AS of right now he just isn't ready. I hope like hell he develops into one but you could see the difference just between he and Lin. Roddy doesn't seem value each and every possession like he should being a PG. Not a lot of leadership either, maybe some of that is due to the language barrier. He has skills and talent but right now it's not honed to the PG position.

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't know when Dirk decided to re-sign with us I thought it was because the front office promised him immediate upgrade. I thought that was why he re-signed with us so fast.

actually no, Dirk said that pretty much only Wade and Lebron we should go after and if we get neither we need to be patient, cause there is a 4 year window

Jon Avalon · 07-13-2010, 05:04 PM

Hmmmm so we are getting a 6.8 mil Trade exception in this deal. If i'm reading trollinger's report correctly.

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

we lived to fight another day and could amass ~$30mil in assets when all is said & done...

This is the obvious play here...one BIG move coming at the deadline or multiple big-ish moves.

The big negative about this deal is that it is crossing its fingers hoping that locker room chemistry can be obtained at the deadline....and as we saw this past deadline, that is no guarantee.

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I agree 100%. AS of right now he just isn't ready. I hope like hell he develops into one but you could see the difference just between he and Lin. Roddy doesn't seem value each and every possession like he should being a PG. Not a lot of leadership either, maybe some of that is due to the language barrier. He has skills and talent but right now it's not honed to the PG position.

The thing is though, he is a very talented 2 right now, why force him to play a position that he isn't comfortable at?

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

actually no, Dirk said that pretty much only Wade and Lebron we should go after and if we get neither we need to be patient, cause there is a 4 year window

And a week later we trade the dust chip for Chandler? Am I missing something here?

Male30Dan · 07-13-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

You don't think that's a solid lineup. Its better than the one last year and that one was the 2nd seed in the West, regardless of what they did in the postseason.

Harrington provides more scoring off the bench, coupled an improved Roddy who can create and score, and JET can still knock down the open shot from time to time.

I fully expect Butler to have a bounce back year, after losing a little weight and having the summer and training camp to incorporate to the team.

Haywood/Chandler plus two young guys who can be energy guys is a much better combo than Damp/Gooden that we were rolling out at the start of last year.

I'm definitely a glass half full guy, but I don't think this is just optimism. This team is better than they were, and have the strong hope of reinforcements at the trade deadline.

Not so much - because the one person that could probably help us the most from last year to this year is still getting very little playing time in this logjam (Roddy).

Basically, you are looking at the exact same team except you have added Tyson Chandler in place of Dampier and you have added Al Harrington. Those look like positive moves, and normally would be, but one guy looks to just be trade fodder (though athletic trade fodder that will help us for the first half) and the other is a backup. Or Marion is the backup and you start Al and Caron. Or Marion and Caron is the backup and you start Roddy and Al. Or.................

This team has no structure right now. Just a lot of bodies. Our current Mavs team is the equivalent of trying to turn 2 Bs into an A.

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

And a week later we trade the dust chip for Chandler? Am I missing something here?

We get a roster upgrade and a valuable contract

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:10 PM

This current set of players will certainly put to test Carlisle's weakness at developing a set line up...

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

This is the obvious play here...one BIG move coming at the deadline or multiple big-ish moves.

The big negative about this deal is that it is crossing its fingers hoping that locker room chemistry can be obtained at the deadline....and as we saw this past deadline, that is no guarantee.

This is what disturbs me. This is basically another year we're throwing way. I feel the league is wide open. Yea i'm not sold on the Heat even though I should be but in my eyes the league is wide open.

And if we're banking on another trade at the deadline? At what point is enough enough? We've done this every year for the past couple of seasons. Its just rare for a team to make a trade and gain that chemistry it takes to win a championship. I know the Pistons did it with Sheed. And I can't remember if the Rockets got Drexler at midseason but aside from those two I can't remember the last time a team traded at midseason and had enough chemistry to win a ring.