How about a deal trade Bradley or Booth? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 05-16-2001, 04:08 PM

my only thing is that i don't think the mavs can make it any further with juwan starting at that spot. the mavericks will be too soft inside.
if the mavs make a trade or sign a good defender down low, then he has to play, and he has to start against certain teams.
i would be pissed also having a backup making what he makes, but if it has to happen, it has to happen

giostar · 05-16-2001, 04:24 PM

Think of the progress that Bradley made this year compared to last. Didnt he go to some big man school in the off season. Maybe Juwan should try that out. He has gotten into some bad habits while with Washington. I mean he was a stud at Michigan, and even in his 1st year in the Pros. But he really hasnt "developed" his game much... he hasnt grown. It could be that being stuck with the whinners in Wash, he started to "not care". Thus his skills started diminishing. Juwan is a solid player, and if he does some off season work, he could develop into the player we need. I think everyone on this team could use some "tweaking" of their skills. Dirk... getting a better inside game. Fin developing his ball handling skills, etc. Some need more than others, but they are all pretty young, and provided they work on things this off season and don't get comfortable, they have a shot next year. I'm not sure the current team we have can't win a championship with a little work.

TheKid · 05-16-2001, 05:15 PM

Personally I think Juwan is better as a number 2 option. Think about his success it was always when he was second fiddle in the post. At Michigan, people focused on Webber so he was able to do his thing. Think about in Washington, he was successful ONLY while Webber was there. Once Webber left, everything went down because he became the focus. He's not ready for that. He's not comfortable being the fourth option, but he's probably fine being the second option. However he's not going to be on this team at all.

No disrespect to him, but as the fourth option he should be able to get his own points (hustle, rebounding, etc.) and that's not his style. I think if we can find someone to take his salary, we should get rid of him. Maybe we can get a third team involved and do a three team trade after Webber signs and gets traded out of Sacramento.

Fidel · 05-16-2001, 05:40 PM

I say give Juwan some time.
Halfway through next season we´ll see how he deals with being third or fourth option. Perhaps he comes along and is able to solidify his game. If he raises his rebounding effort that would definitly help the team. He could also get some points through offensive rebounding and wouldn´t have to settle for midrange jumpers so often. He just needs to be more aggressive on the boards. That would definitly help his overall perfomance (also he must work on defense but so must the Mavs as a team).

TheKid · 05-16-2001, 05:42 PM

I just can't see him as being a rebounder though. He has limited mobility, he has a VERY average jumping ability. I don't know. I hope he can get it together, it would be very nice for us. However I just can't see him ever being a MAJOR factor on the offensive boards.

TheKid · 05-16-2001, 05:45 PM

SENIOR MEMBER BABY!!!!!

Fidel · 05-16-2001, 05:45 PM

And what you mentioned Kid,
yes the hustle play is not his style. But I think to some degree that´s a mental problem. The staff has to tell him that he can´t keep up his old ways, because then he is of not much use for the Mavs.
Also I don´t think there is any way we could trade Juwan, perhaps next year, to a team that wants to clear cap space in 2003, but I guess that´s exactly Nellies plan to use Howards slot than if it doesn´t work with him.

TheKid · 05-16-2001, 05:49 PM

Personally that's why I thought for a while they kept feeding him because they wanted him to show his ability, so that he could raise his trade value. However if that was the philosophy it didn't work, because he did NOTHING of the sort. Don't get me wrong, I hope he works out for us, but what we need and what his strengths are just don't seem to go together. His strong suit is scoring, we don't need that.

Fidel · 05-16-2001, 05:59 PM

Yep,
so if we could get us a banger, Howard would be coming of the bench as a scoring spark. I think he would be real good for that.

Mavinator · 05-16-2001, 06:06 PM

Trading Bradley for a quality inside presence? Isn't that a little like trading Eisley for a backup point guard who doesn't push the ball, or trading Wang for an incredibly raw seven-footer with a nice jumpshot?

madape · 05-16-2001, 06:52 PM

Exactly Mavinator. What exactly does Antonio Davis bring to the Mavs that we don't already have in Bradley? Soring ability? The Mavs have enough scorers.. and who says that Davis is a great offensive weapon in the first place? Bradley is a better shot-blocker, and arguably a better rebounder. This trade would actually make the Mavs worse down low.

Now if you want to talk about Juwon Howard for Davis, I might be listening. A big reason Duncan and Robinson walked all over the Mavs in this series was because Howard can't play a lick of low post D. Think of A. Davis and Bradley teamed up defensively down low. Now THATS scary.

Mavinator · 05-16-2001, 06:55 PM

A Davis-Bradley tandem down low might be one of the top-five defensive frontlines in the history of the NBA...

MFFL · 05-16-2001, 07:24 PM

I don't think it matters what Juwan's salary is - 6th man or 12th man. Cuban's writing the checks not me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

giostar · 05-16-2001, 08:06 PM

I dont know about top 5 all time, but it would be nice... and having Booth backing them both up...

yes... I can dream about that.

TheKid · 05-17-2001, 08:46 AM

that would be a nice tandem, but Booth or Bradley would have to go. Toronto wouldn't give up Davis for Juwan. No way, if they would, then they're crazy, but I would take that in a HEART BEAT!

Mavinator, trust me, I think Bradley gives us a lot, he restored my faith in him during the playoffs. However it's still drastically clear he can not play more than 25 or 30 minutes. When he's not in, we suck on the boards and people come into the lane like we rolled the red carpet out for them. Getting someone physical would sort of neutralize that.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-17-2001, 09:06 AM

That's exactly what davis brings to the table that bradley doesn't: Strength.

Davis can bang with the big boys, but unlike players brought in specifically to foul shaq, he can score and rebound. he's a physical player.

but i'm not saying trade bradley for davis.

i still think we should go with wang, eisley, and trent for davis and childs.

TheKid · 05-17-2001, 09:09 AM

If Toronto would take that, we would WIN EASILY in that situation. From watching that game lastnight, they're going to want to get rid of Childs at the end of the year watch.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-17-2001, 09:11 AM

maybe if we could somehow pawn juwan off on them in that deal, too, and they throw in jerome williams.

hell, i'll even take montross again if it gets rid of juwan. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

on that note, is there anyone on this board who has juwan as a favorite player, or at least likes juwan?

Mavinator · 05-17-2001, 09:32 AM

Antonio Davis is an undersized PF-C with some very limited offensive game, a decent defensive rebounder, awesome offensive rebounder, and good individual defender. He is also getting up there in years, and will almost certainly be leaving Toronto this offseason by free agency if not by trade. Juwan Howard is an undersized PF who really is a pure and capable low-post scorer, despite his troubles against Duncan and Malone, who rebounds decently (very well when he concentrates) and can run the floor well. He is also a hard worker and a great guy, and perhaps most importantly, he is locked in for several more years. Y'all don't think Toronto would trade Davis for Juwan? I guess there's always the salary issue, though...

Big Boy Laroux · 05-17-2001, 09:33 AM

that salary issue is HUGE. it wasn't to cuban, but well, he's cuban.

TheKid · 05-17-2001, 11:05 AM

I think to compensate for salary, they would have to trade Montross and Davis for Juwan and that won't happen. From a salary standpoint, I think, Davis, Montross, Childs would work for Juwan and possibly Wang.

TheKid · 05-17-2001, 04:58 PM

Does anyone think Derek Harper would come out of retirement and be our backup point guard???

djb · 05-17-2001, 05:00 PM

Uhmmmm no [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

scooterj5 · 05-18-2001, 06:48 PM

He might be better than Eisley [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 05-19-2001, 08:36 AM

assessment of juwan howard
good inside scorer, poor passing abilities/poor decision making when double teamed, no defensive abilities, poor rebounder for a power forward, maybe a good guy, pretty good at running the break.
he not only struggled against malone and duncan, he struggled defensively against anyone he guarded since he's been a mav. it's not something he's just going to pick up, he's just simply not a good enough of an athlete, poor quickness to play anyone defensively, poor jumping ability.

scooterj5 · 05-20-2001, 03:55 AM

That's quite harsh

Murphy3 · 05-20-2001, 08:48 AM

it's harsh, but true

TheKid · 05-21-2001, 08:58 AM

A brutal assesment but closer to the truth than not.

MFFL · 05-29-2001, 10:51 PM

Here is a good article about the possible effect of the zone defense.

scooterj5 · 05-30-2001, 03:06 AM

I think the zone will mean more outside shooting and less banging inside, which should help Dallas, because of Nash, Dirk, Fin.