Official: Rondo to Dallas!!

[AO41]

Nice article.....again I think in a few weeks Mavs will be rolling ....a guy like this just needs a little time to get used to his teammates and they to him.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ique-hoops-dna

[AO41]

Although I am wondering if maybe we should have gone all out and maybe gotten Green as well....honestly I see him doing a lot of the stuff Parsons does ...but without needing the ball so much. But I know that would be way too much change.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by tap2390

You're right. Our offense was fantastic, but how far will that get us? How far did it get other offensive minded teams? In all but one of our losses we gave up 100+ points. To me the Rondo trade was primarily about perimeter defense.

Statistically, Rondo's defense has not been good this year.

[tap2390]

Wrong. Statistically he's a top 5 defender at the PG position based on the most accurate measure, DPRM.

[mavsfan1000]

Ouch!
http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2014/07/1...ondos-defense/

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Statistically, Rondo's defense has not been good this year.

As a team built around Dirk, a mediocre defender, the Mav's D is a team game. Its all about rotations, and they have to keep it up for the full 24 seconds. Teams like PHX have multiple 3 point shooters hanging out, just waiting to hit that shot with 3 seconds left on the shot clock. You can't expect to swap out 3 rotation players and have the new guys fill their shoes and be in the right spot after just one practice. The argument that he should have made the defense better instantly is just not realistic.

It is possible that Rondo will never be the defender he once was. I think its more likely that he came back from a serious injury to a team with no chance to be competitive, and started to mail in some plays...after all, they were going to lose most of those games no matter how hard he tried. That is no longer true.

So look at what he's done as a Maverick. Against the Hawks, he let their backup PG, Schroder, run all over him in the 1st half. But then, during the comeback, he took the kid completely out of the game, staying in front of him, even drawing a couple of charges. He should have gotten 3 charges against PHX but didn't get the call on 2 of them. So I think he still has the physical tools to be a good defender. But he has to want to do it every play. It could happen with him, but not very likely with Jameer Nelson, or anyone else we were likely to get this season.

[mac222b]

As regards Rondo's defense, we'll see. Jury's still out for me but overall not too impressed. He still gets caught flat footed a lot and blown by. And certainly haven't seen much of the vaunted "playoff intensity" or extra gear.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by mac222b

As regards Rondo's defense, we'll see. Jury's still out for me but overall not too impressed. He still gets caught flat footed a lot and blown by. And certainly haven't seen much of the vaunted "playoff intensity" or extra gear.

Nearly every player gets blown by by the best guards in the league. Seriously, how many players can keep the likes of Ellis, Parker, Lillard, Westbrook, etc. in front of them? Maybe two to three at best?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I really dont get all the whining.

So the people who wanted to keep Wright know that he is going to be an UFA. And keeping him together with Chandler and Ellis would have killed our entire cap space?! Means keep on rolling with the same team and the same PGs.

Going for Dragic (or Rondo) as FA? You had to give up Wright anyway to create 10-12m cap. And fight with a handful teams for the two good available PG Dragic and Rondo....Rockets, Lakers, Knicks, Mavs etc. And Rondo probably allready traded to another teams incl. his bird rights.

And then you had the chance to get Rondo, show him the franchise and secure his bird rights and the price was only a 2016 late 1st? Yeah that was the true price, because again: Getting a guy like Rondo or Dragic as FA? Goodbye Wright…

And even if Dragic is maybe the bette fit, would have been crazy to gambe for his FA signing here.

And people are forgetting Playoff Rondo. Wright didnt show jack so far in the playoffs. or even against most of the WC playoffteams. We have a solid chance to get playoff rondo in longterm and a great chance to get like a 80% playoff rondo. And this guy wipes the floor with Brandan Wright (sorry Brandan).

Re-sign everyone next summer and throw the Mini MLE after a backup big and you got allready a really nice seven player rotation. Maybe trade at draft night the 2015 pick with Feltons expiring and you got your 8th solid guy...

This season we have to get creative and lucky with a guy like JO. But the trade was and will be always an absolute no-brainer.

The bolded part in particular is an important angle on the trade that probably hasn't been discussed enough. Your take is very much in line with mine.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The bolded part in particular is an important angle on the trade that probably hasn't been discussed enough. Your take is very much in line with mine.

My thinking is very much in line with both yours and Sefant77. Most the doubters seemed to be of the opinion that we could of won a Championship this year with the team we had (maybe add J. Oneal anyways and trade Crowder for a pick or something). I think these people were wrong, but I can understand their frustration. They keep pointing to our offense as some gauge of how good we were. The fact is that our offense was not even close to elite against the teams that matter in the Western Conference. Sure we could run over the bad teams, but this year everyone is doing that. What matters is how you measure up against the top 8-10 teams in the West. We were failing at this miserably.

As far as how Rondo fits in this year, or with Monta long term... I'm really not sure. I get the point that Ellis might be better served coming off the bench, but at the end of the day your best 5-6 players are going to be on the court at the end. I'm hoping that Carlisle can figure this thing out and we can make a respectable run this year. We need Dirk to start hitting open 3s. He's going to be seeing a ton of them, and there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't be hitting close to 40%. Hopefully Devin can continue to shoot like he has and perhaps with more volume. If that 1.5 3pm becomes 2.5-3 then we could be in business.

Bottom line is this trade wasn't just about right now. I think its reasonable to have some doubts about how it lines up for the "win this year" mentality, but overall as a whole the trade had to be done. Some people don't like Rondo b/c of how much his game as regressed in the last 2 1/2 years. The questions are real, but the fact is that this guy is a top 5 facilitator and defender at the PG position when hes healthy and dialed in. He's always been known as a guy who slacks off some when its not prime time. I attribute his lack of recent defensive effort to this. Defense is a day to day grind. They have been playing for nothing in Boston, and he has been battling a major knee surgery and early lingering issues this year. His defense will step up. We got him for practically nothing long term, and we have a real shot at keeping him. Get Positive Mavs Fans. Look at our lineup two years ago if you need a reminder of what the alternative can be.

I'm not going to lie, I have been a big fan of Rondo since he came into the league. I practically watched every game of the Celtics for his first few years. The guy wasn't just a stat guy. He made a REAL difference. In the playoffs he was unbelievable CONSISTENTLY. He was one of their best defenders, the best passer, and showed a type of tenacity very few players ever show at the PG position. There's a reason the guy has a huge following in Boston. Give it time.

[grndmstr_c]

Was just checking in on the advanced stats for the new starting five of Rondo/Monta/Parsons/Dirk/TC. Some notes (all data from nba.com):

- Just 54 minutes of playing time across 4 games so far, so small sample size warning in full effect.

- Defensively, they've allowed 91.2 pp100, good enough for them to rank as the 12th league-wide if we restrict attention to five-man units that have logged at least 54 minutes of court time together (there are 104 such lineups as of today).

- The defensive rebounding with that unit has been a major strength, as they've grabbed 86.7% of available defensive rebounds, good enough for 3rd league-wide, again restricting to lineups with 54+ minutes of on-court time.

- Offense has been the weak-spot, as they're scoring only 98.5 pp100, which ranks them somewhere around 82nd. Missed shots and not enough free throws to make up for it are evidently the culprits, as their efg% and ts% both rank in the lower third. Offensive rebounding is a relative strength, as the unit ranks in the upper third in that statistical category.

I suspect nobody will be surprised by the bad offensive numbers, but I was pleasantly surprised by the very good showing on defense and rebounding. Hopefully they can keep that up as they continue to work out the kinks on the offensive end.

[dude1394]

Thanks for the stats gc. Do the rebounding numbers include yesterday?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Thanks for the stats gc. Do the rebounding numbers include yesterday?

It lists 4 games, so yesterday should be included. I only got to watch the fourth quarter of that game so I don't know what was going on with the rebounding, but it apparently wasn't that lineup that was getting hammered.

Edit: just digging into that, and the starting five did do very well against LA in the defensive rebounding department. It looks like the CharlieV-at-PF lineups, along with the Dirk-and-the-reserves lineup, were the ones that were having trouble finishing off defensive possessions.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

It lists 4 games, so yesterday should be included. I only got to watch the fourth quarter of that game so I don't know what was going on with the rebounding, but it apparently wasn't that lineup that was getting hammered.

Edit: just digging into that, and the starting five did do very well against LA in the defensive rebounding department. It looks like the CharlieV-at-PF lineups, along with the Dirk-and-the-reserves lineup, were the ones that were having trouble finishing off defensive possessions.

Or we could just call it the Greg Smith lineups. He had a better 2nd half, but overall we got killed on the glass when he was in the game.

[Thukydides]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Was just checking in on the advanced stats for the new starting five of Rondo/Monta/Parsons/Dirk/TC. Some notes (all data from nba.com):

- Just 54 minutes of playing time across 4 games so far, so small sample size warning in full effect.

- Defensively, they've allowed 91.2 pp100, good enough for them to rank as the 12th league-wide if we restrict attention to five-man units that have logged at least 54 minutes of court time together (there are 104 such lineups as of today).

- The defensive rebounding with that unit has been a major strength, as they've grabbed 86.7% of available defensive rebounds, good enough for 3rd league-wide, again restricting to lineups with 54+ minutes of on-court time.

- Offense has been the weak-spot, as they're scoring only 98.5 pp100, which ranks them somewhere around 82nd. Missed shots and not enough free throws to make up for it are evidently the culprits, as their efg% and ts% both rank in the lower third. Offensive rebounding is a relative strength, as the unit ranks in the upper third in that statistical category.

I suspect nobody will be surprised by the bad offensive numbers, but I was pleasantly surprised by the very good showing on defense and rebounding. Hopefully they can keep that up as they continue to work out the kinks on the offensive end.

great stuff, thanks... that to me is really, really encouraging

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So the mavs offense was NOT the toast of the nba world? They did not have a great functioning offense? I really must have been watching a different nba. I was reading articles on grantland breaking down our great offense, almost talking about how it was historic.

What about that is not a humming engine?

I understand the totality of crappy defense and all. But at the end of the day we did NOT have an offensive problem that i could see. If we did, educate me.

I don't claim that they had an "offensive problem." Their offensive stats were a bit inflated because they'd played such a weak schedule, but there's no doubt they had one of the league's best offenses (if not the best).

Problem is, that wasn't going to win them four playoff series. A top-ranked offense can carry you far if your defense and rebounding are at least average, but the Mavs were (still are!) literally at the bottom of the league in those areas.

They had to do something to address that, and trading an offensive stalwart with very limited defense and rebounding (Wright) for a talented guard with defensive and rebounding aptitude (Rondo) makes a lot of sense in that respect. It's difficult to predict where the Mavs end up efficiency-wise in April, but a team ranked around #10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency (like the '11 Mavs) with competent rebounding has a much, much better shot at a championship than a team ranked #1 in offense and #28 in defense and rebounding.

I still think they need another small move or two (e.g., O'Neal), but this is a positive first step.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Thukydides

great stuff, thanks... that to me is really, really encouraging

Yeah I'll second that. The offense is the hardest thing to get going with a new PG, so I'm optimistic for that part of the game. The defensive and rebounding stats are looking good considering (and assuming) we get some help for the second unit.

Thanks for the stats.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The guys we traded for Rondo haven't done jack in their three games. And so far against Washington tonight...not much.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't claim that they had an "offensive problem." Their offensive stats were a bit inflated because they'd played such a weak schedule, but there's no doubt they had one of the league's best offenses (if not the best).

Problem is, that wasn't going to win them four playoff series. A top-ranked offense can carry you far if your defense and rebounding are at least average, but the Mavs were (still are!) literally at the bottom of the league in those areas.

They had to do something to address that, and trading an offensive stalwart with very limited defense and rebounding (Wright) for a talented guard with defensive and rebounding aptitude (Rondo) makes a lot of sense in that respect. It's difficult to predict where the Mavs end up efficiency-wise in April, but a team ranked around #10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency (like the '11 Mavs) with competent rebounding has a much, much better shot at a championship than a team ranked #1 in offense and #28 in defense and rebounding.

I still think they need another small move or two (e.g., O'Neal), but this is a positive first step.

this.

Yeah our offense was great but we played a lot of EC garbage. And everyone pretty much knew allready that we wont have a deep playoff run with a Nelson/Harris/Barea PG combo. Not in the west. Not with Dirk and Ellis in the S5 too.

So our target was to make our defense better and if this cost us some offense, then ok. If our offense drops 8 points but our defense improves by 10 points less allowed - we win more games. Specially in the playoffs.

And Rondo has the potential to improve our D (specially at the perimeter) more than our offense gonna suffer.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The guys we traded for Rondo haven't done jack in their three games. And so far against Washington tonight...not much.

The four Celtics PGs are so far a combined
1-14 FGA
5 points
8 assist
9 TO

in combined 60 minutes...ouch

[EricaLubarsky]

Powell beasting the d-league

Powell 26pts, 21reb, 4ast, 2stl, 2blk

Also

Ledo 23pts, 10reb, 7ast
Griffin 34pts, 8reb

[BGMaverick9]

Talking to some guys tonight, they feel very good about Rondo's ability to fit in.
Another source said that Rondo has been a sponge in terms of trying to learn and absorb the system. They said outside of Dirk, they haven't seen anyone else have a desire to learn as much as they've seen with Rondo.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Talking to some guys tonight, they feel very good about Rondo's ability to fit in.
Another source said that Rondo has been a sponge in terms of trying to learn and absorb the system. They said outside of Dirk, they haven't seen anyone else have a desire to learn as much as they've seen with Rondo.

This is a contract year for Rondo, a guy who, 3 years ago, was a lock for a max deal. Since the surgery and the drop in production, that is no longer the case. Surrounded by a new team of quality vets, he has a chance to again prove his value is high. He could also flub and cost himself a bundle. So in addition to professionalism and personal pride, he has literally millions of reasons to be the best Rondo he can be.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Powell beasting the d-league

Powell 26pts, 21reb, 4ast, 2stl, 2blk

Also

Ledo 23pts, 10reb, 7ast
Griffin 34pts, 8reb

Shows again that the D-League is garbage...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by G-Man

This is a contract year for Rondo, a guy who, 3 years ago, was a lock for a max deal. Since the surgery and the drop in production, that is no longer the case. Surrounded by a new team of quality vets, he has a chance to again prove his value is high. He could also flub and cost himself a bundle. So in addition to professionalism and personal pride, he has literally millions of reasons to be the best Rondo he can be.

While true, you could also make the same argument to start this season. It wasn't overly great before the trade for him. Human nature and complacency probably came into play. He's likely got a new pep in his step and ready to go.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Human nature and complacency probably came into play. He's likely got a new pep in his step and ready to go.

Mavs seem to have a way to reenergize players (Stack, NVE, Carter, Kidd, Stevenson, Chandler, etc...)
Hopefully Rondo, CV and RJ will be added to that list.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Mavs seem to have a way to reenergize players (Stack, NVE, Carter, Kidd, Stevenson, Chandler, etc...)
Hopefully Rondo, CV and RJ will be added to that list.

When your best player is also your hardest working player it has that effect. Duncan/Spurs and Brady/Patriots are the same way.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Powell beasting the d-league

Powell 26pts, 21reb, 4ast, 2stl, 2blk

Also

Ledo 23pts, 10reb, 7ast
Griffin 34pts, 8reb

Sarge used to dominate the D League too.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Rondo is shooting 43% from three in his five games with the Mavericks...and 16% from the free throw line.

Still, the threes are encouraging.

[ffballer]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Shows again that the D-League is garbage...

nope that shows that they're nba caliber, they go mj playing at the dleague

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by ffballer

nope that shows that they're nba caliber, they go mj playing at the dleague

I disagree. Starting center for the other squad? 6'7'' former Mavs draftee Jordan Hamilton.

[ffballer]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I disagree. Starting center for the other squad? 6'7'' former Mavs draftee Jordan Hamilton.

lets say that they had a nate robinsons-ish playing at the five, but what about the points?i'm not saying they are nba stars caliber, but they definitely are rotation players, plus i'd like to see what powell's got

[howdoesmydirktaste]

I think we were like the 6th or 7th seed when Rondo came here. Tomorrow we have a chance to beat Washington to creep up to #4 and only be one game behind #3. Many experts were picking us to be around 3 or 4. If this team can figure it out, there's no reason why we can't lead our division and do well in our conference. The other top teams in the West are no longer going on 9-1 and 8-2 runs in their last 10. Many of them are 5-5, 3-7 etc. The top in the West are now having to beat up each other instead of the East (the schedules are shifting). The West is ours to take and frankly I think Rondo is going to be an instrumental part in making that happen. This is why we made the trade. The West will be an absolute fucking blood bath this year and I don't think Jameer fucking Nelson was the right PG to run through that buzz saw. You need someone with mental discipline like Jason Kidd had for us in 2011. Rondo was the best guy available. I think he gives us the best chance.

[Skywalker]

http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/12/30/...do-josh-smith/

The Mavericks offense had been humming along, at or near the top of the league in efficiency since Opening Night. With a deep roster of carefully cultivated role players and a system of endless cycling pick-and-roll variations, there was potential for Rondo to be a systemic disruption. Used to holding the ball for long stretches in Boston and an inconsistent shooter from the outside, he didn’t appear to fit in the Mavericks’ structured back court role, on or off the ball. He’s played just five games with the Mavericks but we can already see how their offense appears to be changing with him in the lineup.

Here is what the Mavericks’ shot chart (in points per shot) looked like before Rondo arrived.


You can see that things are focused around the rim and three-point line. The Mavericks were fantastic in the paint, great from both corners and strong on the right wing. There is very little mid-range activity and what there is, mostly related to Dirk Nowitzki and Monta Ellis, is focused on the elbows.

Here is what their shot chart (again, in points per possession) looks like in the five games Rondo has played with Dallas.


There is slightly less activity in the corners, a lot more mid-range shots, and the activity in the paint is spread out a little bit more. We can also see some of these changes numerically. The columns on the chart below cover the Mavericks’ numbers with Rondo on the floor and then their numbers without Rondo, from before the trade.


The Mavericks offense has been much less efficient with Rondo on the floor. The biggest changes appear to be are in the distribution of mid-range shots and three-pointers from above the break. In addition the Mavericks have been shooting far worse on those above the break three-pointers.

Obviously this is just a five game sample. Three of the five games were against defenses that rank in the top eight in defensive efficiency — Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Atlanta. This is not nearly enough data to draw any definitive conclusions about the new organism that will be created by the interaction between Rondo and the Mavericks’ preexisting offense. But clearly things will be changing.

[markus1234]

We had an easy schedule early in the season. Dirk was on fire, Wright got open dunks and overall teams did not play good defense against us (not enough scouting info yet).

I think it would be better to take a look at the last 6 games before we made that trade. And compare it to the 6 games since that trade.

[Kante]

And the defensive numbers would be nice to see...

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Kante

And the defensive numbers would be nice to see...

Via CF (yes, I creep over there):

Eye-popping SSS stat of the day: When Rondo is on the court, the Mavs have a better defensive rating than the league-leading Warriors. When Rondo is off the court, the Mavs have a worse defensive rating than the league-worst Lakers.

Per NBA.com:
Mavs w/ Rondo DRTG = 93.7
Warriors' first-ranked DRTG = 96.2
Mavs w/o Rondo DRTG = 114.7
Lakers' last-ranked DRTG = 110.2
On the other hand, Boston had a better DRTG with Rondo off the court.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

I didn't expect us to score 110 after Rondo arrived. I also don't expect us to give up 103. I think it's all relative. I think the margin of victory will stay the same but both the points scored and points allowed will fall as a result. So what does that mean? To me it means that we are tweaking our game to hang with the best in the West.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

We have also climbed up the West since Rondo has arrived, which is the only stat I really give a shit about.

[BGMaverick9]

Quote Board of Cuban's Thoughts on Rondo from the other night:

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/12/...n-rajon-rondo/