Cuban 1on1

[dude1394]

Well it all sounds well and good on a Mavs board. However legacies are not written by the teams fans. I expect the history books will not think so kindly.

A team that the owner felt,got so lucky that he blew it up instead of trying to repeat. Getting lucky that they faced miami early.

Hey I loved that team, but IMO the dismantling will tarnish that teams image.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Age, dude. Age and wear and tear.

You don't know g, you don't know. No one does and that is the point.

[stoble]

Originally Posted by dude1394

You don't know g, you don't know. No one does and that is the point.

Very true. I can tell you what I do know. The current plan leads to ZERO playoff wins.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

So you wanted to blow it completely up including Dirk?

No. You're post right below the one I'm quoting in response to dude is what I was getting at.

If Dirk's getting old regardless wouldn't you want a defensive poy center next to him to finish his career?

Yes, I wanted Dwight Howard next to him.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by dude1394

You don't know g, you don't know. No one does and that is the point.

If that's the point, then the point has changed, because I can't tell you how many times I've heard it spoken or seen it written by reporters and by people on this board that Dallas left a repeat title on the table when they declined to match offers on their free agents.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Oh so you also think they were a lucky one hit wonder?

I think that most any team who wins a championship in any sport is lucky. I think that they were not the most talented team in the dance, but they played the best for those 21 games. I'm so glad they did, but I wouldn't base all my future decisionmaking off 21 playoff games.

I also think that it's fair enough for a person, such as yourself, to think that they would have had a shot the next year, but as soon as you start saying things like "OKC and SA in 2012 didn't scare me," you overreach and convey that you're relying more on unfalsifiable hypothetical than fact.

[Underdog]

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I should have added: I'm tired of discussing this (in fairness to dude, I think I initiated the topic this time). Tyson Chandler. Steve Nash. Blah blah.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, I should have added: I'm tired of discussing this (in fairness to dude, I think I initiated the topic this time). Tyson Chandler. Steve Nash. Blah blah.

Actually, we can probably blame Cuban for initiating it this time...

But that doesn't change the fact that you can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

This thread makes more sense with "Still" playing in the background.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, I should have added: I'm tired of discussing this (in fairness to dude, I think I initiated the topic this time). Tyson Chandler. Steve Nash. Blah blah.

If the Cuban cocksuckers wouldn't stop defending him every step of the way and claiming that his plan didn't fail even when it did..maybe it would die down. As long as this forum is full of Cuban cocksuckers, the discussion will continue to come up.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

If the Cuban cocksuckers wouldn't stop defending him every step of the way and claiming that his plan didn't fail even when it did..maybe it would die down. As long as this forum is full of Cuban cocksuckers, the discussion will continue to come up.

Since your posts of late have devolved into a caricature of your already insufferable self, I'm going to start responding to them with (and exclusively with) actual caricatures. Starting now.

[Underdog]

1-On-1 With Mavs Owner Mark Cuban

link

I might characterize Mark Cuban’s post-Dwight position as ‘stubborn optimism.’ Cuban himself would like his comments to be properly framed, presented in context and understood that to him, the failure to successfully court Howard is not necessarily damning to the Mavs. DallasBasketball.com provides the owner with room for framing and context:

“What I said was that we obviously preferred Dwight,’’ Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban tells DallasBasketball.com in an exclusive interview, referring to a much-ballyhooed remark about the club’s good standing despite not securing free agent Dwight Howard. “That is why we went after him. But that was a two-year plan because all we could add around him was going to be minimum(-wage) players.’’

This is an accurate portrayal of Cuban’s pre-July 1 thoughts, when he did indeed detail Dallas’ so-called “two-year plan,’’ as detailed here.

In the owner’s view, a max deal for Howard starting at $20 million plus would’ve left Dallas scrambling to fill out the roster with “a minimum point guard, a minimum shooting guard, etcetera, and all of that would’ve been difficult to fill at minimum salaries.’’

Instead, of course, the Mavs have filled those two particular starting spots with Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis, respectively. DB.com’s numbers on those two players? We’ve got Calderon at a first-year salary of $6,791,570 to begin his four-year deal. We’ve got Ellis possibly starting as low as $8,087,087 for the first of his three years, meaning once Dallas gives him his max raises it could equal as low as $25,353,018.

Oh, and at center, our calculations on Samuel Dalembert means his two-year deal costs Dallas just $3,667,482.

“Not getting Dwight,’’ Cuban says, “allows us to fill in holes that we had from last year. It allows us to put more pieces around Dirk and get a potential star in Monta.’’

Dallas is also adding Devin Harris (on what we believe might be a minimum-wage deal) and Wayne Ellington (on a Room-MLE of $2,650,000, we believe).

“Adding guys next to Dirk, Trix, Vince and Brandan (Wright, soon to be signed due to his Early Bird Rights, possibly to a two-year, $8-mil deal) gives us a more complete team that will be better this year than if we had just added one max-out player.’’

Cuban is acknowledging that this action represents a “Plan B’’ following Dwight as “Plan A.’’ “We had a Plan B in the event we didn’t get him,’’ Cuban says, “and I think we exceeded our expectations for that plan. We were able to go out and get really good players that will make us better sooner. With Dwight and the cap room next year (the ‘two-year plan’) we could fill in any missing pieces and possibly be better long-term. Which is why it was ‘Plan A’ and we went after Dwight. Longer-term, having the superstar is preferable.’’

So it was on to “Plan B.’’

“Shorter-term we think we have a better team for this year,’’ Cuban says. “All that said, I’m really happy with how things played out. I think if we stay healthy we are much better than last year. I think we can be pretty good.’’

I like the little tidbit about Wright - sounds like the deal is as good as done, so we can definitely pencil him in on the roster.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

If the Cuban cocksuckers wouldn't stop defending him every step of the way and claiming that his plan didn't fail even when it did..maybe it would die down. As long as this forum is full of Cuban cocksuckers, the discussion will continue to come up.

I thought that racism was a bannable offense here.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I thought that racism was a bannable offense here.

Aren't most Cuban "cocksuckers" Heat fans?

[Skywalker]

Touché.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by stoble

Very true. I can tell you what I do know. The current plan leads to ZERO playoff wins.

Well your gonna be proved wrong on that one.

[marc9211]

Look I get why some people dislike Cuban. I really like Cuban but believe he has made plenty of mistakes like y'all have been saying Nash and Chandler. But damn since 1983 only 8 different NBA teams have one an NBA championship and we happen to be one of them. Again he has made errors I get it, but trust me there are PLENTY of fans of different teams that would KILL for an owner like Cuban. I would have loved to see a resign of Chandler, Cuban thought he was looking at the future in saving the cap. It was pretty bad luck to miss out on everyone that we missed out on and no one in the Front Office anticipated that.

However, with this team we have assembled I'm hopeful we can do some damage in the playoffs and be the dark horse team of next season. We could also make a deal before the trade deadline or in the next off season. Maybe I'm just too optimistic about everything. But when you have to deal with Jerry Jones as my other favorite teams owner I just can't hate on Cuban like some of you do. Remember we won the 3 seasons ago with a team he completely assembled!!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by marc9211

Look I get why some people dislike Cuban. I really like Cuban but believe he has made plenty of mistakes like y'all have been saying Nash and Chandler. But damn since 1983 only 8 different NBA teams have one an NBA championship and we happen to be one of them. Again he has made errors I get it, but trust me there are PLENTY of fans of different teams that would KILL for an owner like Cuban. I would have loved to see a resign of Chandler, Cuban thought he was looking at the future in saving the cap. It was pretty bad luck to miss out on everyone that we missed out on and no one in the Front Office anticipated that.

However, with this team we have assembled I'm hopeful we can do some damage in the playoffs and be the dark horse team of next season. We could also make a deal before the trade deadline or in the next off season. Maybe I'm just too optimistic about everything. But when you have to deal with Jerry Jones as my other favorite teams owner I just can't hate on Cuban like some of you do. Remember we won the 3 seasons ago with a team he completely assembled!!!

Spoken like a true MFFL.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think that most any team who wins a championship in any sport is lucky. I think that they were not the most talented team in the dance, but they played the best for those 21 games. I'm so glad they did, but I wouldn't base all my future decisionmaking off 21 playoff games.

I also think that it's fair enough for a person, such as yourself, to think that they would have had a shot the next year, but as soon as you start saying things like "OKC and SA in 2012 didn't scare me," you overreach and convey that you're relying more on unfalsifiable hypothetical than fact.

This is kindof a weird post to get my head around. You think they were not the most talented but they played the best. That seems a somewhat useless observation, since it is "playing the best" and not "having the most talent" that has anything to do with winning games. One would imagine, of course, that the latter would lead to the former, but we all know it doesn't all the time. (Unless, that is, one takes the mindset that "playing the best" itself demonstrates a certain superior talent, but for now let's not go there.)

And on the future thing...call me crazy, I guess, but I've always thought it was the naysayers on this board who were most guilty of being a little too sure of their own ability to see into the future. I never bought for one minute the notion that age or wear and tear or anything else was going to certainly prevent the team from repeating the same level of performance they just got done demonstrating.

And demonstrating over a long and grinding playoff season, I might add. You don't Cinderella your way through four rounds of the NBA playoffs.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This is kindof a weird post to get my head around. You think they were not the most talented but they played the best. That seems a somewhat useless observation, since it is "playing the best" and not "having the most talent" that has anything to do with winning games. One would imagine, of course, that the latter would lead to the former, but we all know it doesn't all the time. (Unless, that is, one takes the mindset that "playing the best" itself demonstrates a certain superior talent, but for now let's not go there.)

And on the future thing...call me crazy, I guess, but I've always thought it was the naysayers on this board who were most guilty of being a little too sure of their own ability to see into the future. I never bought for one minute the notion that age or wear and tear or anything else was going to certainly prevent the team from repeating the same level of performance they just got done demonstrating.

And demonstrating over a long and grinding playoff season, I might add. You don't Cinderella your way through four rounds of the NBA playoffs.

We for sure would have had a chance the next year if we would have kept the team together. The thing is that team was unbelievable, I can't remember the last time seemingly every player was hitting on all cylinders at the same time as they did. Thus the statement playing the best but not the most talented. I'm not underrating what they did nor do I think it was lucky. You just can't expect Terry to play that lights out as he did in the finals, Peja played great all playoffs long, JJ Barea played outstanding, they were all just unbelievable at the same time. That with big free agents around the corner as well as the CBA Cuban just didn't think it was worth spending all of his cap on that team. Now whether that was a correct decision or not is up for debate.

[yahyes]

Murph doesn't realize Mark Cuban is a better owner than Ross Perot Jr...

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by marc9211

Now whether that was a correct decision or not is up for debate.

No it's really not. This is one of the worst front office decisions in Dallas sports history. I'd say even worse than Jerry Jones firing Jimmy Johnson. The plan fell flat on it's face and honestly was a horrible idea even in the beginning. I and a few others here said at the time it was a horrible idea. The only people left debating are the idiots that defended it at the time. Strangely enough the majority of those same idiots were discussing bringing Darren Collison back on an extended contract. Hmmm...

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Murph doesn't realize Mark Cuban is a better owner than Ross Perot Jr...

Ross Perot brought in Dirk, Finley, Nash... Just saying.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Ross Perot brought in Dirk, Finley, Nash... Just saying.

Heh heh

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Ross Perot brought in Dirk, Finley, Nash... Just saying.

So he was the GM and scout for the organization, too? Wow. Here I thought that he was just looking to flip the team and make a chunk of money.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Ross Perot brought in Dirk, Finley, Nash... Just saying.

Uh, Don Nelson brought those guys in while Perot wrote the checks. Pleeeeease don't act like Perot was the genius behind those moves.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Uh, Don Nelson brought those guys in while Perot wrote the checks. Pleeeeease don't act like Perot was the genius behind those moves.

The best owners let the gm manage the day to day operations and just write the checks. Usually the hands on owners end up screwing up teams (Al Davis, Jerry Jones). Cuban is following in the great Jerry Jones' footsteps after the break up of championship team.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I thought that racism was a bannable offense here.

Nope, pretty much everything is allowed at this point on the forum.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

No it's really not. This is one of the worst front office decisions in Dallas sports history. I'd say even worse than Jerry Jones firing Jimmy Johnson. The plan fell flat on it's face and honestly was a horrible idea even in the beginning. I and a few others here said at the time it was a horrible idea. The only people left debating are the idiots that defended it at the time. Strangely enough the majority of those same idiots were discussing bringing Darren Collison back on an extended contract. Hmmm...

People just assume that team would have been a long term solution, I absolutely do not think that team would have repeated and we would have been stuck with it for how much money they would have cost.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by marc9211

People just assume that team would have been a long term solution, I absolutely do not think that team would have repeated and we would have been stuck with it for how much money they would have cost.

Yes because keeping a couple key pieces at hometown discounts would have been worse than Mayo, Kaman, and Mike James. Sure.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by marc9211

People just assume that team would have been a long term solution, I absolutely do not think that team would have repeated and we would have been stuck with it for how much money they would have cost.

You are correct we would have been stuck until..well... Now.

[purplefrog]

I never would have dismantled the championship team. Why? Because in my world you always allow a team to defend their title. You owe it to the fans and the players.

That being said, the strategy by the MBT was valid and reasonable. It was a huge risk that didn't pay off. So it failed. I don't really fault them for that because Cuban believed he saw new strategies would have to develop given the current CBA. He did not accurately predict what would happen, but that was a calculated risk in my book.

The good news is, it seems that Cubes and Donnie have quickly moved on to a strategy that will allow them to go back to their strengths... making great trades.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

The best owners let the gm manage the day to day operations and just write the checks. Usually the hands on owners end up screwing up teams (Al Davis, Jerry Jones). Cuban is following in the great Jerry Jones' footsteps after the break up of championship team.

Did you edit this post just to add more stupid to it?

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I never would have dismantled the championship team. Why? Because in my world you always allow a team to defend their title. You owe it to the fans and the players.

That being said, the strategy by the MBT was valid and reasonable. It was a huge risk that didn't pay off. So it failed. I don't really fault them for that because Cuban believed he saw new strategies would have to develop given the current CBA. He did not accurately predict what would happen, but that was a calculated risk in my book.

The good news is, it seems that Cubes and Donnie have quickly moved on to a strategy that will allow them to go back to their strengths... making great trades.

Making stupid gambles does not mean you get an A for effort. It was a fools plan with a fools result.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I never would have dismantled the championship team. Why? Because in my world you always allow a team to defend their title. You owe it to the fans and the players.

That being said, the strategy by the MBT was valid and reasonable. It was a huge risk that didn't pay off. So it failed. I don't really fault them for that because Cuban believed he saw new strategies would have to develop given the current CBA. He did not accurately predict what would happen, but that was a calculated risk in my book.

The good news is, it seems that Cubes and Donnie have quickly moved on to a strategy that will allow them to go back to their strengths... making great trades.

Wait wait wait...so let me get this straight. You're saying that it's possible to disagree personally with a particular course of action while still recognizing that it was within the realm of objectively reasonable decisionmaking, even if it didn't work out as hoped?

But it's so much more fun to be extremist.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Making stupid gambles does not mean you get an A for effort. It was a fools plan with a fools result.

It was a not stupid gamble, it was a calculated risk that didn't turn out like he had hoped. We have a solid team that could be great with a couple of trades. Of course you can say these things now in hindsight. Again you may not realize how many fans would love to have an aggressive owner like Cuban, it was a CALCULATED error not a stupid gamble or a "fools plan".

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Ross Perot brought in Dirk, Finley, Nash... Just saying.

Nelly and Cubes brought in Dirk actually. All Perot did was push to build the AAC.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Nelly and Cubes brought in Dirk actually. All Perot did was push to build the AAC.

Cuban didn't buy the team until 2000. Dirk was drafted in 98.

[dude1394]

"Actually". I don't think that word means what you think it does.