Top 50 players in Mavericks History

[jacktruth]

I think Jet should be a few rungs higher and I take exception to the number of players ahead of Ty Chandler and Matrix

http://hoopshype.com/galleries/hoops...ericks-history
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[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

I think Jet should be a few rungs higher and I take exception to the number of players ahead of Ty Chandler and Matrix

http://hoopshype.com/galleries/hoops...ericks-history
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TC at #50? Ok... depends on the other 49 I guess.

Then I see Brandon Bass and Diop... *close window* I don't want to risk seeing Erick Dampier at #1 and destroying my computer.

[DirkFTW]

This would actually be a hilarious late night show skit. Find random Mavs fans and ask them to fill in the blank for the following:

Top 50 players in ________

50. Tyson Chandler
48. Brandon Bass
44. DeSagana Diop
38. Marquis Daniels
19. Jerry Stackhouse
17. Erick Dampier

[jacktruth]

When I first saw the list, I thought, "have the mavericks had 50 good players?"

And no. They have not. This list confirms it.

[SMC0007]

Garbage trash

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

When I first saw the list, I thought, "have the mavericks had 50 good players?"

And no. They have not. This list confirms it.

Pretty much. Lots of guys I love on the list, but very few "good" players. I loved Najera, but the dude is not an above average player.

[Dirk's Knee]

While I'm sick of the Mav fan fetishism of Chandler, I gotta say any ranking of Dampier and Bradley above him is laughable. Honestly, this list should be 20 to 30 deep, not 50.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

While I'm sick of the Mav fan fetishism of Chandler, I gotta say any ranking of Dampier and Bradley above him is laughable. Honestly, this list should be 20 to 30 deep, not 50.

Seriously? I agree with Dampier, but you forget just how effective BRadley was for us early. Dude averaged 11pts, 8reb, 3.3bpg in only 28mpg his first season and had 4 good seasons with us. He just started fading as a player around the time we started making the playoffs.

Chandler only played 74 games for us at 10pts, 9reb, 1block in similar min, although with different results.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Seriously? I agree with Dampier, but you forget just how effective BRadley was for us early. Dude averaged 11pts, 8reb, 3.3bpg in only 28mpg his first season and had 4 good seasons with us. He just started fading as a player around the time we started making the playoffs.

Chandler only played 74 games for us at 10pts, 9reb, 1block in similar min, although with different results.

Maybe my memory is clouded, but all I can remember of Bradley his slow trot back down the court leaving the middle exposed and his freakish inability despite his height to stop smaller slashers to the basket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEi-Wm0OFII

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Seriously? I agree with Dampier, but you forget just how effective BRadley was for us early. Dude averaged 11pts, 8reb, 3.3bpg in only 28mpg his first season and had 4 good seasons with us. He just started fading as a player around the time we started making the playoffs.

Chandler only played 74 games for us at 10pts, 9reb, 1block in similar min, although with different results.

Chandler: Championship. If we had Bradley that wouldn't have happened, even in his prime.

The stats are almost irrelevant. Bradley never had the backbone and heart Chandler had. Chandler should be wayyyy up that list.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

I think Jet should be a few rungs higher and I take exception to the number of players ahead of Ty Chandler and Matrix

http://hoopshype.com/galleries/hoops...ericks-history
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That's a bad list and the people who made it should feel bad.

[day1]

Each of us will have our own ranking of the best Mavs players. Some of our players went on to make good on other teams, but I think what we are focusing on here is what contribution the player made to the Mavericks while playing here. I tend to think in terms of milestones. So, here are the players that I think deserve to be listed (moving forward in time):

early history
>Spanarkel, Davis, Vincent
first winning season
>Aguirre, Blackman, Cummings, Davis, Vincent, Spanarkel, Nimphius, Harper, Garnett
won Midwest Division
>Aguirre, Blackman, Harper, Perkins, Donaldson, Schrempf, Davis, Tarpley
got to Western Conference Finals
>Aguirre, Blackman, Davis, Donaldson, Harper, Perkins, Tarpley
got to NBA Finals
>Dirk, JET, Josh Howard, Dampier
>(2nd tier) Marquis Daniels, Diop, Devin Harris, Adrian Griffin, Stackhouse
won Southwest Division
>Dirk, JET, Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Stackhouse, Diop
won a championship
>Dirk, JET, Marion, Chandler, Kidd

others
>Finley, Ceballos, Bradley, Nash
Fan favorites, memorable moments
>Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, JJ Barea, Peja Stojakovic, many others

Now, before I can rank these players I have to add a little bit of my own bias to it. First, Tarpley cannot be on any "greatest Mavs list" no matter what. No way, no how, no deal! Second, there is still the little matter of the last days of Mark Aguirre. I personally forgive him, but it still bumps him down the list a ways. He is probably the 2nd best player to ever play for the Mavericks, and was part of several milestone moments, but still... Finally, the players under "other" were very important to keeping the franchise afloat and being part of the building blocks that eventually got us the championship. Ok, here is my list:

1. Dirk
2. Kidd
3. Nash
4. JET
5. Blackman
6. Harper
7. Finley
8. Davis
9. Donaldson
10. Perkins
11. Aguirre
12. Marion
13. Stackhouse
14. Josh Howard
15. Ceballos
16. Bradley
17. Spanarkel

then these 15, in no particular order: Chandler, Dampier, Devin Harris, Diop, Marquis Daniels, Adrian Griffin, Schrempf, Cummings, Vincent, Nimphius, Garnett, Nick Van Exel, Najera, JJ Barea, Stojakovic

So, even being pretty liberal, I can only come up with 32. Now, that should not be too surprising, since our franchise is a little over 30 years old.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by day1

Each of us will have our own ranking of the best Mavs players. Some of our players went on to make good on other teams, but I think what we are focusing on here is what contribution the player made to the Mavericks while playing here. I tend to think in terms of milestones. So, here are the players that I think deserve to be listed (moving forward in time):

early history
>Spanarkel, Davis, Vincent
first winning season
>Aguirre, Blackman, Cummings, Davis, Vincent, Spanarkel, Nimphius, Harper, Garnett
won Midwest Division
>Aguirre, Blackman, Harper, Perkins, Donaldson, Schrempf, Davis, Tarpley
got to Western Conference Finals
>Aguirre, Blackman, Davis, Donaldson, Harper, Perkins, Tarpley
got to NBA Finals
>Dirk, JET, Josh Howard, Dampier
>(2nd tier) Marquis Daniels, Diop, Devin Harris, Adrian Griffin, Stackhouse
won Southwest Division
>Dirk, JET, Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Stackhouse, Diop
won a championship
>Dirk, JET, Marion, Chandler, Kidd

others
>Finley, Ceballos, Bradley, Nash
Fan favorites, memorable moments
>Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, JJ Barea, Peja Stojakovic, many others

Now, before I can rank these players I have to add a little bit of my own bias to it. First, Tarpley cannot be on any "greatest Mavs list" no matter what. No way, no how, no deal! Second, there is still the little matter of the last days of Mark Aguirre. I personally forgive him, but it still bumps him down the list a ways. He is probably the 2nd best player to ever play for the Mavericks, and was part of several milestone moments, but still... Finally, the players under "other" were very important to keeping the franchise afloat and being part of the building blocks that eventually got us the championship. Ok, here is my list:

1. Dirk
2. Kidd
3. Nash
4. JET
5. Blackman
6. Harper
7. Finley
8. Davis
9. Donaldson
10. Perkins
11. Aguirre
12. Marion
13. Stackhouse
14. Josh Howard
15. Ceballos
16. Bradley
17. Spanarkel

then these 15, in no particular order: Chandler, Dampier, Devin Harris, Diop, Marquis Daniels, Adrian Griffin, Schrempf, Cummings, Vincent, Nimphius, Garnett, Nick Van Exel, Najera, JJ Barea, Stojakovic

So, even being pretty liberal, I can only come up with 32. Now, that should not be too surprising, since our franchise is a little over 30 years old.

Aguirre at 11? Kidd and Nash above Blackman?

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by day1

Each of us will have our own ranking of the best Mavs players. Some of our players went on to make good on other teams, but I think what we are focusing on here is what contribution the player made to the Mavericks while playing here. I tend to think in terms of milestones. So, here are the players that I think deserve to be listed (moving forward in time):

early history
>Spanarkel, Davis, Vincent
first winning season
>Aguirre, Blackman, Cummings, Davis, Vincent, Spanarkel, Nimphius, Harper, Garnett
won Midwest Division
>Aguirre, Blackman, Harper, Perkins, Donaldson, Schrempf, Davis, Tarpley
got to Western Conference Finals
>Aguirre, Blackman, Davis, Donaldson, Harper, Perkins, Tarpley
got to NBA Finals
>Dirk, JET, Josh Howard, Dampier
>(2nd tier) Marquis Daniels, Diop, Devin Harris, Adrian Griffin, Stackhouse
won Southwest Division
>Dirk, JET, Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Stackhouse, Diop
won a championship
>Dirk, JET, Marion, Chandler, Kidd

others
>Finley, Ceballos, Bradley, Nash
Fan favorites, memorable moments
>Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, JJ Barea, Peja Stojakovic, many others

Now, before I can rank these players I have to add a little bit of my own bias to it. First, Tarpley cannot be on any "greatest Mavs list" no matter what. No way, no how, no deal! Second, there is still the little matter of the last days of Mark Aguirre. I personally forgive him, but it still bumps him down the list a ways. He is probably the 2nd best player to ever play for the Mavericks, and was part of several milestone moments, but still... Finally, the players under "other" were very important to keeping the franchise afloat and being part of the building blocks that eventually got us the championship. Ok, here is my list:

1. Dirk
2. Kidd
3. Nash
4. JET
5. Blackman
6. Harper
7. Finley
8. Davis
9. Donaldson
10. Perkins
11. Aguirre
12. Marion
13. Stackhouse
14. Josh Howard
15. Ceballos
16. Bradley
17. Spanarkel

then these 15, in no particular order: Chandler, Dampier, Devin Harris, Diop, Marquis Daniels, Adrian Griffin, Schrempf, Cummings, Vincent, Nimphius, Garnett, Nick Van Exel, Najera, JJ Barea, Stojakovic

So, even being pretty liberal, I can only come up with 32. Now, that should not be too surprising, since our franchise is a little over 30 years old.

Antoine Rigaudeau

[day1]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Aguirre at 11? Kidd and Nash above Blackman?

My list is my list. It is silly for you to criticize it. Instead, why not show us your list?

By the way, I can't tell from your comment whether you think Aguirre should be moved up or down. I guess I will find that our when I see your list.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by day1

My list is my list. It is silly for you to criticize it.

That can't be a good rule...

1. Avery Johnson
2. Raja Bell
3. Lamar Odom
4. Wang Zhizhi
5. Yi Jianlian
6. Antoine Rigaudeau
7. Evan Eschmeyer
8. Danny Fortson
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Matt Carroll

In no particular order, Pavel Podkolzine, NVE, Finley, Walt Williams, Nash. Hope I didn't leave anyone major off!

[day1]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

That can't be a good rule...

1. Avery Johnson
2. Raja Bell
3. Lamar Odom
4. Wang Zhizhi
5. Yi Jianlian
6. Antoine Rigaudeau
7. Evan Eschmeyer
8. Danny Fortson
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Matt Carroll

In no particular order, Pavel Podkolzine, NVE, Finley, Walt Williams, Nash. Hope I didn't leave anyone major off!

I'm curious, can you please share with us why you chose to rank Raja Bell above Lamar Odom?

[Kante]

Originally Posted by day1

I'm curious, can you please share with us why you chose to rank Raja Bell above Lamar Odom?

It is silly to criticize it.

[marc9211]

If peja isn't on your list then your list is wrong

[Ninkobei]

Is JET really the 4th best player ever to be on the Mavs? I'd put Chandler way ahead of him. Chandler is easily the best player Dirk has played with since Nash left.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by day1

I'm curious, can you please share with us why you chose to rank Raja Bell above Lamar Odom?

spite

[day1]

Originally Posted by Kante

It is silly to criticize it.

Asking for more information is not criticism.

[day1]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

spite

Do you mean, spite against Raja Bell? In your opinion, what did he do wrong?

[Kante]

Originally Posted by day1

Asking for more information is not criticism.

What's the difference to

Aguirre at 11? Kidd and Nash above Blackman?

Just a question for more information aswell.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Is JET really the 4th best player ever to be on the Mavs? I'd put Chandler way ahead of him. Chandler is easily the best player Dirk has played with since Nash left.

Um, no. Not unless you're comparing Chandler in his prime to JET, Marion and Kidd now. I'm not gonna try to say there isn't wiggle room in the precise ordering of those three and Tyson, restricting consideration to the years they played with Dirk in Kidd and Marion's case. But Tyson way ahead of JET? Tyson easily the best player Dirk has played with since Nash left? I can't imagine how anybody who's watched the Mavs or the careers of the players in question could make that claim with a straight face.

[Kante]

Terry is way ahead of Chandler, tbh. No way Chandler is ahead of Terry in such a list.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I can't imagine how anybody who's watched the Mavs or the careers of the players in question could make that claim with a straight face.

The impact Tyson made on this team was far far greater than Jet's. I think you forget how good he really was. All the small things he did on defense and just being a presence on the floor. JET is a good scorer and was good in crunch time for sure. Lots of teams have good shooters.

Tyson was Dirk's Robin. He made up for a lot of Dirk's shortfalls on defense. I give Dirk credit though he worked his ass off to be a better defender. If you don't remember that then I suggest you go watch the 2011 playoffs over again or just about any game from the regular season. He was/is one hell of a player.

[Bayliss]

Becoming a longevity vs peak argument. Chandler was perfect for Dirk and the Mavs. Too bad he didnt have more than one year. His peak is higher... but Jet has had yhe greater Mav career.

[marc9211]

50 is such a high number to come up with for an NBA franchise... Once you get threw the top say 30 you can just fill in the blanks with whoever you want. That goes for just about any franchise not just the mavs. Regardless I agree as far as career with the Mavericks got to go with Jet.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

The impact Tyson made on this team was far far greater than Jet's.

No, it really wasn't. His impact was significant. He made major contributions to a championship, just like JET, Kidd and Marion. There was nothing far far greater about it, especially when you take the entirety of JETs career as a Mav into account.

I think you forget how good he really was. All the small things he did on defense and just being a presence on the floor. JET is a good scorer and was good in crunch time for sure. Lots of teams have good shooters.

On the contrary, if you think JET's contributions can be summed up as "good shooter", you're the one who's guilty of forgetting how indispensable and capable a certain former Mav was.

Tyson was Dirk's Robin.

If Dirk had a Robin, it was JET. JET and nobody else. If we're talking about the championship run specifically, Tyson was no less and no more than one of four guys, along with Kidd, Marion (both of whom you've neglected to mention in your response) and JET, who served as Dirk's primary supporting cast. That's not a knock. It's a credit to all of them.

He made up for a lot of Dirk's shortfalls on defense.

That's a lazy, misguided take on what Tyson's contributions were on the defensive end for the Mavs. He has some very noteworthy strengths on that end of the court (overrated as he's become in the wake of his stint in Dallas). None of them allowed him to do much more than his predecessor at the center position when it came to covering for Dirk, specifically, who's been a perfectly capable defender at the PF spot for far longer than the popular narrative has ever been willing to admit.

He was/is one hell of a player.

No argument there. My point is simply this: so were JET, Kidd and Trix.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

no he isn't. my final argument!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

I think Jet should be a few rungs higher and I take exception to the number of players ahead of Ty Chandler and Matrix

http://hoopshype.com/galleries/hoops...ericks-history
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Lord save me websites that have nothing but a bunch of photos. What a colossal waste of time.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by day1

My list is my list. It is silly for you to criticize it. Instead, why not show us your list?

By the way, I can't tell from your comment whether you think Aguirre should be moved up or down. I guess I will find that our when I see your list.

+1

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Becoming a longevity vs peak argument. Chandler was perfect for Dirk and the Mavs. Too bad he didnt have more than one year. His peak is higher... but Jet has had yhe greater Mav career.

Jets jersey will be in the rafters, chandlers not. And I am an unabashed chandler supporter.

[day1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by day1 View Post
Asking for more information is not criticism.

What's the difference to
Quote:
Aguirre at 11? Kidd and Nash above Blackman?
Just a question for more information aswell.

All right, I admit I overreacted. I will be glad to explain why I put Kidd and Nash above Blackman. However, I still don't know if the question is asking why Aguirre is so high or so low.

Again, I am not ranking players based on their "quality" as a player. Instead, I am ranking them on their contribution to the Mavericks (as a player, not post-player coach). I ranked Kidd highly because:

1) he was a key cog on the championship team
2) he was previously a key cog in the three J's
3) his two different stints with the Mavs, important both times

I could be persuaded that Nash is ranked too highly, since he wasn't on the championship team. However, his role in developing Dirk, and the fantastic watchability and win total of the team during his tenure were the deciding factors.

As far as Aguirre is concerned; if the question is "Why is he so low?", I think I answered that when I said "game 7 vs. Lakers". If the question is "Why is he so high?", I think I answered that when I noted he was probably the second best player to ever wear the Mavericks uniform.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Is JET really the 4th best player ever to be on the Mavs? I'd put Chandler way ahead of him. Chandler is easily the best player Dirk has played with since Nash left.

Based on impact or overall contributions?

I agree TC had a huge impact on us winning the 2011 title but lets not act like JET didn't do great things while here.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by Rick41

Based on impact or overall contributions?

I agree TC had a huge impact on us winning the 2011 title but lets not act like JET didn't do great things while here.

I thought the question was just name the Top Players of the Mavericks. As in the best players that have played on the Mavs. Not top players over a 5 year span or somesuch, or who signed a longer contract. Talent wise Chandler has JET beat.

Personality wise too. How many times did JET punch former Mavs in the dongers, during the playoffs (Michael Finley, of all people)? I forget but I think it was more than once.

e: clearly i didn't read the hoopshype article (if you can call it that) but who wants to click Next Photo 50 damn times. Put them all on the same page FFS.

[EricaLubarsky]

Don't underestimate Terry. He was Dirk's Robin for not one, but two finals appearances. He helped take Dirk to the Mavericks' first Finals appearance, and his guts helped get us our first championship with 18ppg and 44% shooting from three as our second leading scorer.

Chandler was a great player, but he played only one season with us and averaged 10-9-1.1 in the regular season and 8-9-0.6 in the playoffs. It obviously wasn't all about numbers, but his impact was about being an energy guy with mobility that could defend the PnR than about being a superbly talented player. It's easy to overrate Chandler because of what his presence meant for the team (first championship) and lose sight of his true talent level.

If we're talking about talent, you have to put Chandler pretty low-- even lower than your gut would say. If we are talking impact on the Mavericks franchise, then Chandler has to be high-- perhaps even higher than Finley who kept this franchise respectable for years/

[Five-ofan]

Jet should absolutely be over chandler. To the point I seriously question your sanity if you disagree. I get that we love chandler and we associate him with solely the greatest season in mavs history. But jet was also associated with that season and at least equally as important. We don't win that title without jet anymore than we win it without it chandler or without trix for that matter.

To be honest Id have a very hard time having a non superstar(and I love chandler but if you think at any point in his career he's been a superstar, you don't know what a superstar is) who only played one season in the top 10. I won't list 50 people because I have no desire to debate the merits of samaki walker and the like but my list would be

1. Dirk
2. Aguirre
3. Finley(for everything he became later, the man killed himself for this team for a long time and was damn good at it. There was a reason he got that 100 mil contract and while he didn't live up to it, it doesn't undo everything he ever did beforehand)
4. Nash
5. Rolando Blackman
6. Kidd(if any of his peak had happened here he'd be number 2)
7. Terry
8. Harper
9. Matrix(should be a first ballot hofer, and one of only 4 mavs along with dirk, kidd and Nash who is top 10 all time at his position)
10. Tarpley
11. Chandler
12. Nick van exel
13. Sam Perkins

I know that I have the members of the title team relatively low but winning doesn't automatically mean you were the best players in franchise history. I also still think I might have chandler too high.

[oilfieldtrash]

1. Dirk
2. Jet for punking Lebron, 2 finals, and the ring of course.
3. Finley for bringing the mavs out of the nba wasteland.
4. Kidd for finals and the best pg the mavs have ever had.
5. Nash second best pg and some memorable mavs playoff runs.

Didn't include old players as I didn't watch them.