PGT: Mavs fought hard.

[Kante]

I really hope the young guys realize how easy it is to play with and through Dirk. Mayo/Collison seemed so surprised the first games when they came off a P&R wide open!

Last 2 games it looked better... Also i think Collison worked on the entry passes.

[jthig32]

So...look...I'm been pretty much driving the "Vince Carter needs to be reigned in" bandwagon, and have been for some time. But that shot was completely justifiable. The most important thing in that situation is that you get the 2 for 1. THE most important thing.

Even if there's a 20% chance that shot goes in (and I'd argue it's a bit higher with Carter), that's a shot you take every single time, given the time on the clock.

Overall I thought the game was quite encouraging, but we're quickly nearing the stage where moral victories are useless (if we're not already there).

And despite turnovers not being a huge issue until overtime, OJ has got to figure out a way to keep a better handle on the ball. I'm getting to the point that I just don't trust him to make any kind of pass.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Good: Nice to see Dirk finding rhythm and actually getting the ball in his spots. Nice to see OJ step up - if we can get Dirk back to normal and have at least one of OJ/DC/Vince/Kaman step up offensively, we should be okay putting points on the board.

Bad: That missed free throw and the obvious Wade foul on the 'steal' killed us. DC is an awful half-court playmaker. How much Center is Dirk going to play this year?

Ugly: Dating back to last season, I'm getting really sick of losing nearly every close game. Recently, I'm just getting really sick of losing nearly every game.

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Vince's decision to take a quick 3 out of a timeout was dreadful.

I wasn't able to watch the game, when was that and what was the score. I've seldom seen 2-1s attempted in close games. Usually 2-1s to me are sort of throw-away possessions at the end ifthe first three quarters.

[SMC0007]

A few issues I have.

OJ Mayo: His most consistent play is, timing his turnovers so perfectly in these tight games that the other team momentum avalanches us. It seems to drag Collison into frantic, chicken with their heads cut off mode too.

Vince Carter: I have said it before and it happened once again last night. Go back and look at the crucial 3's we gave up for the tie and lead and in overtime. Almost all of the outside bombs were given up by his man or a man closest to him. The one in overtime he was staring at a guy with the ball in the paint and his man is behind him wide open for a 3. I'm telling you he is gonna set a NBA and world record for giving up 3 pointers in a season! It's killing us, does no one else notice this, or care? Some one please talk to him. BG

Collison and Mayo: Get Dirk the damn ball, a few times it has been Dirks fault for allowing his man back around him to keep the entry pass from coming in, but there were window of opportunity for them to get it to him on the PnR. They have to learn to do so.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

BTW.

His assist numbers are so overrated. If you play with so many great players, 10 assists is really nothing special.

While i agree assist numbers aren't the best indication of someone's passing ability (Westbrook is averaging 8+ assists) Lebron is still a great passer. Probably the second best passing SF of all-time. The guy did this in Cleveland as well, on average rosters, and has some "wow" pass in every single game. I understand we hate him, but he maybe the best player since MJ, and has no hole in his game at this point in his career. I mean look up his season, and december numbers. It's ridiculous.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I wasn't able to watch the game, when was that and what was the score. I've seldom seen 2-1s attempted in close games. Usually 2-1s to me are sort of throw-away possessions at the end ifthe first three quarters.

Mavs up by 1 (100-99) and he took a three after a pick from Dirk i believe and the Mavs having the ball with ~44 seconds to go, he shot it with ~33. I think it was a good shot for that situation.

[dude1394]

Okay..now IMO forcing a 2-1 shot in that scenario is ridiculous. A score is much more important there than an extra possession.

Why would we want a rushed shot which by definition a 2-1 opportunity is versus a solid shot?

[markus1234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5dedKhOhNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5dedKhOhNU

[SMC0007]

Not all 2-1 are rushed shots, so I'm not 100% positive that is by definition. But it may be.

Refer to basketball 101 handbook.

[BGMaverick9]

Looking at the play again in slow motion, it's not as open of a shot he took than I thought. Battier isn't right on him but he's closing out in a big way. Dirk never really makes an effort to do anything on the play. He's just sitting between the elbow and the corner. OJ rushes from the corner to the elbow of the line just as Vince starts to line up the shot.

Marion sets the pick for Carter and rolls hard to the heart of the paint (roughly 5 feet from the basket). Bosh shows hard but is basically in no-man's land and can't get back to Marion. That forces Carter out a little bit further away and gives Battier time. No one really cheats in and covers Marion in the paint. I don't think Ray Allen makes the basketball play to cover the steal unless it's an errant pass by Vince. Wade could maybe cheat, but the only way it backfires is if Marion can't catch the pass/Vince throws an errant pass which is way behind Marion. Wade is going to have to get over and foul Marion to get the ball. Either way, it's a pretty direct pass with no real congestion. Marion gets the ball and he's got a direct line for a bunny.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Okay..now IMO forcing a 2-1 shot in that scenario is ridiculous. A score is much more important there than an extra possession.

Why would we want a rushed shot which by definition a 2-1 opportunity is versus a solid shot?

Well, first of all, a solid shot is far from guaranteed on any possession.

The point, though, is that 2 shots are almost always better than 1. That's backed up by a ton of statistical data points.

And besides the fact of statistics, just think about it logically. Why wouldn't you choose one rushed possession and one solid, stable possession over just the one solid, stable possession?

The extra, rushed shot is a bonus, so why would you ever turn it down?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

A few issues I have.

OJ Mayo: His most consistent play is, timing his turnovers so perfectly in these tight games that the other team momentum avalanches us. It seems to drag Collison into frantic, chicken with their heads cut off mode too.

Vince Carter: I have said it before and it happened once again last night. Go back and look at the crucial 3's we gave up for the tie and lead and in overtime. Almost all of the outside bombs were given up by his man or a man closest to him. The one in overtime he was staring at a guy with the ball in the paint and his man is behind him wide open for a 3. I'm telling you he is gonna set a NBA and world record for giving up 3 pointers in a season! It's killing us, does no one else notice this, or care? Some one please talk to him. BG

Collison and Mayo: Get Dirk the damn ball, a few times it has been Dirks fault for allowing his man back around him to keep the entry pass from coming in, but there were window of opportunity for them to get it to him on the PnR. They have to learn to do so.

Carter collapsing on the ball and leaving his man open at the 3pt line is driving me crazy too. Also that he appears to have carte blanche to jack off balance jumpers and 3's early in the shot clock. Someone needs to reign him in. I think we've all been saying this for weeks now.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, first of all, a solid shot is far from guaranteed on any possession.

The point, though, is that 2 shots are almost always better than 1. That's backed up by a ton of statistical data points.

And besides the fact of statistics, just think about it logically. Why wouldn't you choose one rushed possession and one solid, stable possession over just the one solid, stable possession?

The extra, rushed shot is a bonus, so why would you ever turn it down?

I guess it is my preference. A solid 2 pointer puts the pressure all on the other team to get 3 points somehow. Then you play defense and unless rc has called all of his timeouts ( which he has been having to do lately ) you get a look at a win even if tied.

Or they run the shot clock down so far that they take a rushed shot. It would appear getting to three up is the way to go.

I understand the extra shot being a bonus, but being up three is more valuable to me. Of course carter is saying being up 4 is even better.

[nowhereman]

Tons of props to whoever used the 'obviously not hard enough' tag.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So...look...I'm been pretty much driving the "Vince Carter needs to be reigned in" bandwagon, and have been for some time. But that shot was completely justifiable. The most important thing in that situation is that you get the 2 for 1. THE most important thing.

Even if there's a 20% chance that shot goes in (and I'd argue it's a bit higher with Carter), that's a shot you take every single time, given the time on the clock.

This.

Originally Posted by dude1394

Okay..now IMO forcing a 2-1 shot in that scenario is ridiculous. A score is much more important there than an extra possession.

Why would we want a rushed shot which by definition a 2-1 opportunity is versus a solid shot?

This is a false choice. You're not choosing between "a score" versus "an extra possession." Thig has explained this, though.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This.

This is a false choice. You're not choosing between "a score" versus "an extra possession." Thig has explained this, though.

I agree, but this is a case where he needed to be reigned in and there was a quick way to get an efficient look out of the "set". I explained it earlier.

I also looked back at the play in the second where he drove from the elbow extended and had two defenders on him. He did his job and sucked in the extra defender and had Dirk all alone (hands out and ready to shoot) for a 3 and he kept driving to the rim.

[dude1394]

I read what he says but I still don't see it. I do not see what the point of a rushed shot is. It seems like a wasted opportunity.

I know I cannot guarantee a made basket, but are you really saying that 20% versus 50% is better if you then get another shot without a lot of time on the clock. I don't know, it just seems like you are eating two rushed possessions.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I also looked back at the play in the second where he drove from the elbow extended and had two defenders on him. He did his job and sucked in the extra defender and had Dirk all alone (hands out and ready to shoot) for a 3 and he kept driving to the rim.

Yup, i thought he should have passed it, but atleast he made the shot, so it's "ok".

[twelli]

I would like the Mavs to sign a 3-point specialist (a la Horry, Bowen, Peja...) someone who sits in the corner ready for any dish-out pass that comes his way and knocking them done with deadly precision. Any good team needs one. Those threes by Battier made the difference (and he's not even a 3-point specialist).

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by twelli

I would like the Mavs to sign a 3-point specialist (a la Horry, Bowen, Peja...) someone who sits in the corner ready for any dish-out pass that comes his way and knocking them done with deadly precision. Any good team needs one. Those threes by Battier made the difference (and he's not even a 3-point specialist).

Yea it's really too bad that Shawn hasn't worked harder on that, he would be deadly except that he shoots it from his waist.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by markus1234

BTW.

His assist numbers are so overrated. If you play with so many great players, 10 assists is really nothing special.

Not at all. Sure, kicking to an open Ray Allen rather than an open Shawn Marion makes it easier on him, but James is one of the best passers in the league for a player of his size. He's smart enough to know when and where to kick it, and physically...well, the guy can do pretty much whatever he wants on the court. Chest pass, bounce pass, whatever you want...he's gonna lay it on the money.

So yeah, talent around him helps, but he's a great passer regardless (even better playmaker, there is definitely a distinction between the two) as evidenced by averaging 8 assists one year for Cleveland.

[LonghornDub]

Good tags. Good tags.