POLL: Has Carlisle done a good Job this season? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 01-02-2013, 10:26 PM

No "kinda". No "All things considered". Just a simple "Yes" or "No". No "Middle Road" answers allowed.

There are obviously tons of variables to be considered, but I just want to know what you think of his coaching decisions.

jamaljasonandjimmy · 01-02-2013, 10:33 PM

my only problem with carlisle is he likes to set older players on the bench too long/often. these guys get paid millions of dollars so play the hell out of them. players act like this is a country club. but other than that none of this is ricks fault. it all rests on cubans shoulders because hes a cheap guy so the front office had to make some moves at the lowest price and it all happened back when chandler left, why do you think kidd went to ny? to make a statement to the rest of the nba. mavs are getting blackballed right now.

markus1234 · 01-02-2013, 10:36 PM

Big NO.

Our rotations suck and our half court offense is unorganized (bad spacing, guys go 1 on 5).

DoJo, Murphy, Crowder and Wright should have played ~zero minutes long time ago.
Dahantay Jones and Bernard James should have gotten much more playing time.

sike · 01-02-2013, 10:38 PM

I have this thought that bounces around my head everyone once in a while that Rick may not be a good coach when his team is bad. Contrasted to being a GREAT coach on a good or great team.

I've hated his goofy lineups this year. I'm sure he has a reason for them....but I don't have to like it.

markus1234 · 01-02-2013, 10:45 PM

Rick is definitely a bit overrated. I followed him pretty closely in Indiana

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...fire-Carlisle&

and he looked VERY confused in his last 2 seasons. Jasikevicius was a much better PG than Tinsley, but stubborn RC kept playng Tinsley and losing games... Then he suspended Sjax and other guys "left and right" and lost the team completely.... That Sjax, Jermaine O Neal and Artest do not play for the Mavs is no coincidence.

ps: And Jasikevicius got his revenge during our pre season game vs. barcelona

GermanStandard · 01-02-2013, 10:52 PM

I think RC doesnt know how to handle young players thats why he keeps playing vets like VC, Brand etc.

Great Coaches can improve bad teams or teams who are missing star players (like TT with the Bulls). But RC is not able to control the team. When Jason Kidd was around it was easy to coach, cause it was like having a Co-Coach on the field.

adonis · 01-02-2013, 11:00 PM

No. But Management is at a bigger fault.

Popeye · 01-02-2013, 11:50 PM

No. He should have settled with a consistent rotation much sooner. The last thing a team with so many new pieces needs is a constant shuffling of lineups.

I also think the offense needs to be tweaked.

dude1394 · 01-03-2013, 12:10 AM

Absolutely. He has been dealt one of the worse hands in basketball.

sike · 01-03-2013, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Absolutely. He has been dealt one of the worse hands in basketball.

No doubt, but the question is not "is Rick a good coach that has been dealt a bad hand?", but "has he done a good job thus far this season with the hand he has been dealt?"

EricaLubarsky · 01-03-2013, 12:28 AM

We are only 3 games behind the Lakers who have Nash, Kobe, Jamison, Howard, Artest, etc.

We've been awful, but I really hope we can keep Carlisle on with some sort of continuity-- at least with our coaching staff. There isn't a better coach out there with more credibility than him. Cuban's pocketbook may have been neutered and that was the major draw. Dirk's never been a major influence on free agents. Carlisle is legit.

dude1394 · 01-03-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

No doubt, but the question is not "is Rick a good coach that has been dealt a bad hand?", but "has he done a good job thus far this season with the hand he has been dealt?"

Yes...absolutely...I'm not sure any other coach would have done as well. Not even popovich and I think he is awesome....but a really fantastic system coach.

adonis · 01-03-2013, 02:45 AM

Gotta get Rick some more vets to work with imo. You never see him bench Kidd for bad turnovers, bench Terry for bad shots, bench Marion for not running back, etc. If Collison, Barea, Roddy, etc. do one bad thing he gets right in their face afterwards, lmao.

Budapest Maverick · 01-03-2013, 05:59 AM

If you take only 2 answers, it is clearly no. The roster has more talent than their record indicates even if you consider Dirk just got back, and our early play suggests we could sit on a much better record right now, if Carlisle manages to keep the team together/utilize them better. He should still get a pass from us fans.

Ninkobei · 01-03-2013, 07:47 AM

why is this even a question? Given what Carlisle has had to work with, he has done a bang up job. Best coach in the city by a good margin. He's definitely one of the top coaches in the league.

Kante · 01-03-2013, 08:06 AM

No. His rotations were really bad at times. Wright never gets minutes is a mystery to me...

mqywaaah · 01-03-2013, 08:15 AM

So far I'd give the guy credit. I mean, for crying out loud the guy's not a miracle worker. Critics should cut him some slack and wait for next season (cos I know something big is about to happen. Mavs will beast once more, mark my words! Can't say I've given up on this season, but I am patiently waiting for what's to come. This organization is known to bounce back. And I have a great feeling it will!

Mavs fans, all is not lost. It isn't the end of the world. Let's support the team through ups and downs specially right now that we're in the down. Like they say, the only way to go when you're down is up. And I know the Mavs will shoot right through all these bumps on the road. I assure everyone that something spectacular is in store for those patient enough to see this through.

This is our team! MFFL!

spreedom · 01-03-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Rick is definitely a bit overrated. I followed him pretty closely in Indiana

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...fire-Carlisle&

and he looked VERY confused in his last 2 seasons. Jasikevicius was a much better PG than Tinsley, but stubborn RC kept playng Tinsley and losing games... Then he suspended Sjax and other guys "left and right" and lost the team completely.... That Sjax, Jermaine O Neal and Artest do not play for the Mavs is no coincidence.

ps: And Jasikevicius got his revenge during our pre season game vs. barcelona

This has never been true in the NBA. Cabbages was a good shooter (particularly within the frame of Euro ball) but he was a huge failure with the Pacers. He was never anything more than a disappointingly mediocre player. Travis Diener on a shooting slump.

Rick had some very dysfunctional teams his last two years in Indiana. It may have been time for him to go, but not because he couldn't coach. He had to deal with the unprecedented suspensions, a slew of injuries to key players, and a lot of roster turnover (including the terrible Jackson/Harrington for Murphy/Dunleavy deal). Definitely not Rick's best work, but there were a lot of variables that were out of his control.

Budapest Maverick · 01-03-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dahantay Jones and Bernard James should have gotten much more playing time.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. James is a very nice role player, he's putting up 11/11 per36, with only 3,8 fouls, and 3+ blocks. I really think he could average 10/10 for us, while playing much better defense than Kaman. Bernard has very little potential for much improvement, but the guy has a very high floor. He should play more. As far as Jones, he's a very solid defender, rarely makes mistakes, and can make the corner 3 on above average, good efficiency. He should be the primary backup SG.

markus1234 · 01-03-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

This has never been true in the NBA. Cabbages was ....

But Tinsley was even worse.

Tinsley was total garbage. Always injured, shooting below 30% and playing slow lazy basketball. "Cabbages" never really got a chance to play consistent minutes. He was on a ridiculously short lash.

Once again look at their WS/48 and FG%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html

Sometimes Rick has huge "trust" issues (leads to inconsistent lineups). Gotta trust your teammates....and players.

jthig32 · 01-03-2013, 09:39 AM

Anyone expecting much better than this considering the injury problems and the roster is certifiably nuts in my eyes.

Also, the idea that Rick is only a good coach with a good team flies in the face of his work with the Pacers the year of the Malice at the Palace, where he took an absolutely decimated team to the playoffs and won a freaking playoff series.

Every team's fans are always going to have problems with their coach (the complaints of Spurs fans regarding Popovich and his rotation decisions is always the gold standard example) but vitriol directed at Carlisle, and the amount of expertism on boards like this that pretend they know what's best based on limited sample sizes and per 36 numbers always amuses me.

Which is not to say that I don't think coaches can be questioned or their moves debated, but for someone to sit back and say, with complete certainty, that this team would be significantly better if Bernard James were playing more absolutely blows my mind.

I don't take much issue at all with Rick's tactical decisions. I have questioned his approach in the locker room at times, but the player my concern was focused on (Collison) seems to be coming around, so what the hell do I know?

Rick's the #2 asset this organization currently has, and it's not particularly close between him and #3.

jamaljasonandjimmy · 01-03-2013, 09:49 AM

it was cool to throw out crazy rotations back in 2011 when he won a title with a deep bench but rick has to keep with a consistent line up. like i dont even know who the 6th man is on this team. Kaman, dantay, dirk?

SMC0007 · 01-03-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Anyone expecting much better than this considering the injury problems and the roster is certifiably nuts in my eyes.

Also, the idea that Rick is only a good coach with a good team flies in the face of his work with the Pacers the year of the Malice at the Palace, where he took an absolutely decimated team to the playoffs and won a freaking playoff series.

Every team's fans are always going to have problems with their coach (the complaints of Spurs fans regarding Popovich and his rotation decisions is always the gold standard example) but vitriol directed at Carlisle, and the amount of expertism on boards like this that pretend they know what's best based on limited sample sizes and per 36 numbers always amuses me.

Which is not to say that I don't think coaches can be questioned or their moves debated, but for someone to sit back and say, with complete certainty, that this team would be significantly better if Bernard James were playing more absolutely blows my mind.

I don't take much issue at all with Rick's tactical decisions. I have questioned his approach in the locker room at times, but the player my concern was focused on (Collison) seems to be coming around, so what the hell do I know?

Rick's the #2 asset this organization currently has, and it's not particularly close between him and #3.

Donnie Nelson. But yea #4(Casey Smith) might be a ways back.

Murphy3 · 01-03-2013, 10:36 AM

I've said this over and over... to judge this team on what it has done without Dirk and then with a Dirk that's basically just starting to get into any type of shape is absolutely silly. Yes, I wish they could have hung a little closer to .500. But the team just isn't very good without Dirk being Dirk. I have full confidence that he'll be Dirk again very soon.. At that point, let's just wait and see how good the team is.

spreedom · 01-03-2013, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

But Tinsley was even worse.

Tinsley was total garbage. Always injured, shooting below 30% and playing slow lazy basketball. "Cabbages" never really got a chance to play consistent minutes. He was on a ridiculously short lash.

Once again look at their WS/48 and FG%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html

Sometimes Rick has huge "trust" issues (leads to inconsistent lineups). Gotta trust your teammates....and players.

Cabbages' only NBA-level skill was supposedly his shooting stroke, and he never got it going despite playing 20MPG his rookie season. Tinsley wasn't shooting the ball well either but at least he was trying to get other guys going.

spreedom · 01-03-2013, 10:40 AM

Also worth noting, that despite the injuries, inconsistent play and terrible offense, the Mavs currently sit just four games behind Portland for the 8th seed. And that's without the best player on the team (by a wide margin) playing for the first third of the season.

sike · 01-03-2013, 11:47 AM

As much of this post seems directed at my comments, I'll add my thoughts...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Anyone expecting much better than this considering the injury problems and the roster is certifiably nuts in my eyes.

Anyone not expecting 7 games below .500 is "certifiably nuts"? I suppose if by "much better" you mean significantly over .500, I'd agree. But I haven't seen anyone arguing that. I don't think its "nuts" to think that this roster could be fighting for .500, or that the head coach isn't at least somewhat responsible for the total lack of drive & heart they have shown at times this season.

Quote:

Also, the idea that Rick is only a good coach with a good team flies in the face of his work with the Pacers the year of the Malice at the Palace, where he took an absolutely decimated team to the playoffs and won a freaking playoff series.

First off, I said Rick is a GREAT coach with a good team. And on that Indy team, they had everyone but Artest back for much/most of that season. (They also faced a pretty bad Boston team who's second fiddle was A.Walker.) But lets not misconstrue facts about that Indy team, they were in the Conference Finals the season before. So if anything, it agrees with my idea that Carlisle is a GREAT coach with good players. By the time the playoffs rolled around in 05, they were a very solid team again. (Albeit without Artest) I'm not stealing any credit from RC's coaching job in 04/05, just pointing out that he did in fact have a good team to coach in a relatively weak Eastern Conference.

Quote:

I don't take much issue at all with Rick's tactical decisions.

Okie Dokie. I do. I hope that doesn't seem like expertism on my part. I'm certainly not (as some may be) suggesting that Rick isn't a great coach, but some of his decisions have baffled me this year.

Quote:

Rick's the #2 asset this organization currently has, and it's not particularly close between him and #3.

Agreed. Give him a team with good veterans and he has proven able to lead the charge.

jthig32 · 01-03-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

As much of this post seems directed at my comments, I'll add my thoughts...

Actually most of this was not directed at you, alien boy. But I shall respond in kind.

Quote:

Anyone not expecting 7 games below .500 is "certifiably nuts"? I suppose if by "much better" you mean significantly over .500, I'd agree. But I haven't seen anyone arguing that. I don't think its "nuts" to think that this roster could be fighting for .500, or that the head coach isn't at least somewhat responsible for the total lack of drive & heart they have shown at times this season.

First of all, I haven't seen very much lack of drive & heart. I've seen a lack of talent and execution. And that's to be expected.

This roster is a collection of spare parts. Of players no one is willing to commit to long term. Some of them have potential, and Mayo in particular, has been fulfilling a lot of that here-to-for unfulfilled promise. And I give Rick a ton of credit for that.

But take into account how much they were planning on leaning on Delonte, whom they lost without any time to find a viable replacement. Then they did find what they considered a viable replacement, and he up and quit on them.

They enter every game having to decide between Dojo and Roddy for backup PG. I mean...wow.

They called up a journeyman from the DLeague and immediately gave him minutes, because they're desperately trying to find anyone that can consistently contribute.

Marion has missed seven games. Brand has missed four games (and been a significant disappointment when he has played).

I just don't see how anyone could expect this roster, with these injuries, to be around .500 this far into the season. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me when I sit back and look at the roster.

Quote:

First off, I said Rick is a GREAT coach with a good team. And on that Indy team, they had everyone but Artest back for much/most of that season. (They also faced a pretty bad Boston team who's second fiddle was A.Walker.) But lets not misconstrue facts about that Indy team, they were in the Conference Finals the season before. So if anything, it agrees with my idea that Carlisle is a GREAT coach with good players. By the time the playoffs rolled around in 05, they were a very solid team again. (Albeit without Artest) I'm not stealing any credit from RC's coaching job in 04/05, just pointing out that he did in fact have a good team to coach in a relatively weak Eastern Conference.

Ron Artest was their best player. Let's not minimize what it meant to lose him. And Jermaine ONeal only played 44 games in the regular season. That's almost half the season without your two best players.

They were led in minutes played by Fred Jones, for goodness' sake, and Austin freaking Chroshere was third.

They had 20 different players play for them that season. Weak East or not, making the playoffs that year was an incredible achievement. Incredible.

jthig32 · 01-03-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Donnie Nelson. But yea #4(Casey Smith) might be a ways back.

I think Rick is pretty significantly out in front of Donnie, personally.

JeffViggiano · 01-03-2013, 01:25 PM

no.

our roster isn't very good...and we played 30games without Dirk.

Kante · 01-03-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

no.

our roster isn't very good...and we played 30games without Dirk.

So, yes?

JeffViggiano · 01-03-2013, 03:59 PM

of course YES hahahah

dude1394 · 01-03-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Rick is pretty significantly out in front of Donnie, personally.

I do as well. I haven't seen much long term thinking out of Donnie. It's depressing to continue and get nothing from draft picks. Maybe calathes will be different.

But ager, roddy, dojo, crowder all just seem like throwaways.

Dirk's Knee · 01-03-2013, 05:44 PM

I think he's been very good over the years, IMHO coaching was a key factor in our championship. He's performed admirably this year given the roster and Dirk's injury. By no means is he without fault, I've wondered many times over the years why certain players get very limited minutes while others with a long history of stinking it up see significant floor time. But we are not privy to what goes on in practice.

dude1394 · 01-03-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

I think he's been very good over the years, IMHO coaching was a key factor in our championship. He's performed admirably this year given the roster and Dirk's injury. By no means is he without fault, I've wondered many times over the years why certain players get very limited minutes while others with a long history of stinking it up see significant floor time. But we are not privy to what goes on in practice.

Nice post...Nor do we have a team of coaches breaking down film and trying to manage a players work attitude/ethic.

LonghornDub · 01-03-2013, 06:18 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the gap between Rick and Donnie is pretty huge. Rick took a team that was maybe the third or fourth most talented in the tournament to an NBA title. Donnie, meanwhile, has done very little to impress me in many, many years. The Mavs' draft strategy is particularly abysmal.

Murphy3 · 01-04-2013, 12:42 PM

Just curious..why is this a thread "stuck" at the top of the Mavs forum?

Dirk's Knee · 01-04-2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

As far as I'm concerned, the gap between Rick and Donnie is pretty huge. Rick took a team that was maybe the third or fourth most talented in the tournament to an NBA title. Donnie, meanwhile, has done very little to impress me in many, many years. The Mavs' draft strategy is particularly abysmal.

Our drafting has been pretty poor, I will admit. But a big part of that has been trading away a bunch of pics and being good enough that our draft position is rarely very good anyway. We did get Josh Howard late in the first, while not great player he was instrumental in our 2006 run. I think the most recent draft was one of the better ones we've had in a long time. Haven't seen enough of Cunningham to make a real judgement but what I've seen from Crowder (he should be used more as a slasher and defensive option than 3 point specialist IMHO) and James (no idea why he's not seeing more floor time, our best post defender in the limited time he's played) has certainly been promising.

jamaljasonandjimmy · 01-04-2013, 03:42 PM

whos a better coach don nelson or carlisle,

Kante · 01-04-2013, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

whos a better coach don nelson or carlisle,

RC by a mile.