Dirk questions Cuban's rebuilding plans - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Aggie E · 01-06-2013, 08:09 PM

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...ves-build-hope

"It's going to be tough now," Nowitzki said after the Mavs' home overtime loss to the Western Conference cellar-dwelling New Orleans Hornets. "I always liked to think you don't want to build your franchise on hope.

"We hoped for Deron last year. We hoped for Dwight. Why would he leave the Lakers? To me, it makes no sense. He's in a great situation. Why would CP3 leave? (The Los Angeles Clippers are) the best team in the league probably right now. They're probably the deepest team. So are you going to hope that we get something?

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 08:30 PM

Wow, you know its getting bad when Dirk starts to publicly question the FO strategy. I cant remember ever hearing Dirk saying something even remotely negative about the FO so, to me, this points to possible cracks in the trust he has given this FO over his career. This could get really ugly if this summer is a bust

markus1234 · 01-06-2013, 08:43 PM

That's more than questioning if you read between the lines.

Cuban and Donnie try to fool the fans with false hopes (Paul, Dwight and co.) and Dirk basically tells them to shut up and work on plan B asap. With his comment about the great situation in LA he is sending a clear message to Cuban, Paul and Dwight and ending the whole "rabbit chase".

j0Shi · 01-06-2013, 08:44 PM

Ouch!

Dirk has every right to be frustrated, but the last few years have always been about reshuffling around Dirk (& Terry) until they found the right combination for the one championship run. Expectation certainly rise when you've gone all the way, but this year, last year, FO really just continue to operate like they used to.

Add the dimension of the harsher tax and that every superstar wants to play in New York or L.A. and you wonder what more the Mavs can do.

grndmstr_c · 01-06-2013, 08:46 PM

I'd like to know what question Dirk was actually answering there. It sounds to me like he's primarily talking about where he thinks the priorities should be going forward, and whether and how those priorities should be informed by the failure to land Deron last summer or to win the trade wars for either CP3 or Dwight. And it may very well be the case that the front office is in complete agreement with him. Circumstances have changed tremendously since the start of that first post-championship offseason when the Mavs' original and largely unprecedented course was charted, so it stands to reason that the front office's expectations regarding opportunities in the trade and free agent markets have not remained static.

markus1234 · 01-06-2013, 08:49 PM

Yes they finally found Tyson... and let him go. Tyson did not want to play for LAL or NY.

PF : Dirk
C : Tyson

Should have been our core.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 08:51 PM

Gotta love McMahon mentioning the possibility of trading Dirk in the opening paragraph, and burying Dirk's very direct quote about NOT wanting to be traded in the final sentence of the entire piece. It's so typical of McMahon to take a story that can be solid on its own and try to blow it up that much more by introducing drama that isn't there.

markus1234 · 01-06-2013, 08:56 PM

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Originally Posted by jthig32

drama that isn't there.

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Nowitzki said. "But now I've got a ring and obviously want to finish my career here. But I also want to be competitive."

Questioning "competitiveness" is more than enough drama.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Nowitzki said. "But now I've got a ring and obviously want to finish my career here. But I also want to be competitive."

Questioning "competitiveness" is more than enough drama.

I don't really think it's drama. I think it's frustration, which is understandable. McMahon even admitted that he cornered Dirk right after the awful loss last night.

I'm not saying there's no story here, there is (although I don't think it's huge; Dirk has said most of this before), but McMahon is trying to make it more than it is.

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't really think it's drama. I think it's frustration, which is understandable. McMahon even admitted that he cornered Dirk right after the awful loss last night.

I'm not saying there's no story here, there is (although I don't think it's huge; Dirk has said most of this before), but McMahon is trying to make it more than it is.

Didnt know I was so out of touch, I would like to read any prior quotes/stories where Dirk mentioned this before...any links you could provide?

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Didnt know I was so out of touch, I would like to read any prior quotes/stories where Dirk mentioned this before...any links you could provide?

Dirk's done several radio interviews where he talked about how tough it was to miss out on Deron and talked about building this team and then trying again for a big fish in 2013. Which is essentially what he said in this article.

Now, he said other things that are new. Specifically, I think it's interesting that he was so blunt about playing out the string this season. And "not building around hope" is much more blunt than he's ever been and provides some clout to the story.

Again, I'm not saying this is all old news or not interesting. I'm just not sure it's a huge story.

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dirk's done several radio interviews where he talked about how tough it was to miss out on Deron and talked about building this team and then trying again for a big fish in 2013. Which is essentially what he said in this article.

Now, he said other things that are new. Specifically, I think it's interesting that he was so blunt about playing out the string this season. And "not building around hope" is much more blunt than he's ever been and provides some clout to the story.

Again, I'm not saying this is all old news or not interesting. I'm just not sure it's a huge story.

Being disappointed about missing on Deron and looking to 2013 to land a big fish sounds like Dirk was at least publicly on board at the direction, at the least, he was trusting the FO would make it work. The gist I got out of his comments tell me he is losing faith and confidence in what they are trying to do, and he is giving this upcoming offseason as a last chance. Anyway, this adds up to not only interesting but a big deal from my interpretation.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Being disappointed about missing on Deron and looking to 2013 to land a big fish sounds like Dirk was at least publicly on board at the direction, at the least, he was trusting the FO would make it work. The gist I got out of his comments tell me he is losing faith and confidence in what they are trying to do, and he is giving this upcoming offseason as a last chance. Anyway, this adds up to not only interesting but a big deal from my interpretation.

A last chance for what? He said, very directly, that he wants to end his career here. So what is it a last chance for?

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

A last chance for what? He said, very directly, that he wants to end his career here. So what is it a last chance for?

Yes, as long as they are 'competitive', were his words...which they are not right now. He also doesnt see landing a big fish this offseason. He said 'it makes no sense' and added maybe 'Cuban has something up his sleeve'. So, I guess this boils down to his qualifier, which is 'competitive'. To me, he is implying getting a big fish as a qualifier to being competitive, but maybe I am reading that wrong.

grndmstr_c · 01-06-2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dirk's done several radio interviews where he talked about how tough it was to miss out on Deron and talked about building this team and then trying again for a big fish in 2013. Which is essentially what he said in this article.

Now, he said other things that are new. Specifically, I think it's interesting that he was so blunt about playing out the string this season. And "not building around hope" is much more blunt than he's ever been and provides some clout to the story.

Again, I'm not saying this is all old news or not interesting. I'm just not sure it's a huge story.

Agreed. It provides a fairly clear indication of how Dirk would feel about things if the Mavs go into next summer having not made a trade, and then fail to significantly upgrade the roster in the offseason. I'm not sure I've seen such a blunt statement from him in that regard. But then, it's not really surprising that he'd feel that way, either. The Mavs hit some rough luck when CP3 and Dwight both opted in to the last year of their respective deals, and between that, missing out on Deron, and this season's struggles, how could he feel any differently. But nothing that he said indicates that he wants to leave, and even the interpretation of his statements as indicating a disconnect with the front office is at best dependent upon unsubstantiated and assumptions about front office plans.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Agreed. It provides a fairly clear indication of how Dirk would feel about things if the Mavs go into next summer having not made a trade, and then fail to significantly upgrade the roster in the offseason. I'm not sure I've seen such a blunt statement from him in that regard. But then, it's not really surprising that he'd feel that way, either. The Mavs hit some rough luck when CP3 and Dwight both opted in to the last year of their respective deals, and between that, missing out on Deron, and this season's struggles, how could he feel any differently. But nothing that he said indicates that he wants to leave, and even the interpretation of his statements as indicating a disconnect with the front office is at best dependent upon unsubstantiated and assumptions about front office plans.

And even with his direct comments about how unhappy he could be in 2013-2014, he then defused a lot of the sting by stating his explicit desire to finish his career here.

So what's the big story, exactly? Dirk would be frustrated if the roster isn't better next season, but he'll still be here? Newsflash?

|_Jeff_| · 01-06-2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Didnt know I was so out of touch, I would like to read any prior quotes/stories where Dirk mentioned this before...any links you could provide?

"We would have loved to keep the troops together, as players, we would have loved to get the guys back and give it a true shot to defend. But Mark and Donnie they made a business decision to really go for cap space. As players I think we were for sure disappointed in December in free agency when we didn't get the same team back, that's for sure."

Sarcastic Dirk: "We'd love to get Kobe, Wade and Lebron in here but I don't think that's going to happen."

grndmstr_c · 01-06-2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So what's the big story, exactly?

Tim MacMahon is a douchebag joke of a team reporter?

...Oh wait, that isn't news either.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 09:53 PM

Here's an interesting angle to a part of this dicussion:

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Haralabos Voulgaris ‏@haralabob
People underestimate luck in general, How lucky were Sonics to get #2 pick instead of #1? How lucky was Dallas that Deron chose BKN?

Quote:

Haralabos Voulgaris ‏@haralabob
That last tweet is in reference to this http://es.pn/TVgmGR sure things look bleak for Dallas, but they'd look worse if they signed Dwill

I'm not completely sure I agree, because I think Rick would be getting more out of Deron. But..BUT...it's pretty interesting to see such a respected NBA mind (at least in the Twitter and gambling circles) making a case that Dallas would actually be in WORSE shape moving forward if they'd landed Dwill.

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

And even with his direct comments about how unhappy he could be in 2013-2014, he then defused a lot of the sting by stating his explicit desire to finish his career here.

So what's the big story, exactly? Dirk would be frustrated if the roster isn't better next season, but he'll still be here? Newsflash?

I don't necessarily disagree that he will be here next year, seeing that he would still be under contract, but that is no guarantee under the context of his qualifier (competitive). He wouldn't throw out that qualifier if he wasnt clearly serious about playing for a competitive team. That leaves open the possibility he wont be here at the end of his contract while signing somewhere else, yes that would mean he is here next year. But, it also leaves open the possibility he would want to be traded to a competitive team after this offseason if...it stays status quo.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

I don't necessarily disagree that he will be here next year, seeing that he would still be under contract, but that is no guarantee under the context of his qualifier (competitive). He wouldn't throw out that qualifier if he wasnt clearly serious about playing for a competitive team. That leaves open the possibility he wont be here at the end of his contract while signing somewhere else, yes that would mean he is here next year. But, it also leaves open the possibility he would want to be traded to a competitive team after this offseason if...it stays status quo.

I'm just not sure how you can read this...

Quote:

"The only reason I would leave -- or would have left -- is if we wouldn't have won the championship and I would have been like a Karl Malone and (Gary) Payton going to join Kobe and Shaq in L.A. like they did at the end," Nowitzki said. "But now I've got a ring and obviously want to finish my career here. But I also want to be competitive."

..and think that Dirk is qualifying his desire to be here. He's not. He's just simply saying that he's still a competitor, and he wants the Mavs to try their best to win. He's not saying his desire to be here is contingent on them being competitive.

dude1394 · 01-06-2013, 10:01 PM

I think dirk is serving notice that he would have wanted to leave without the championship so his loyalty has limits. If the same rent a team is in place when his contract is up, cubes better get nervous.

oilfieldtrash · 01-06-2013, 10:04 PM

Dirk taking some shots at Cuban and Co. "We knew that coming in, that eight or nine new guys on one-year deals is not really an ideal situation, but what else is there to do?"

Can't blame him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-06-2013, 10:11 PM

I'd say this is at least somewhat concerning. I don't discount Dirk's loyalty, but losing probably gets the best of most players. I believe him when he says he wants to finish his career here, but it certainly is a notice to Cuban that the team better not keep sucking for long. There doesn't need to be any drama added this. Losing like the team has this season is drama enough...

EricaLubarsky · 01-06-2013, 10:11 PM

I think it needed to be said.Cuban needs to know that there is a lot of unhappy people in D-town. I respect that Dirk has waited this long and still doesn't want out-- just wants help. It's about the best you could hope for and hopefully it moves the organization forward, because now it's out in the open after we all thought it.

j0Shi · 01-06-2013, 10:14 PM

Bottom line for me is: A lot of moves in the past (Deron, Chandler) would have made our current record better, but I don't think any deal would have brought us close enough to contention this season and especially not in the future.

adonis · 01-06-2013, 10:16 PM

Cuban needs to hit. Something. I'm not even asking for a HR right now, maybe a double would do. These singles have too much double play potential.

oilfieldtrash · 01-06-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Bottom line for me is: A lot of moves in the past (Deron, Chandler) would have made our current record better, but I don't think any deal would have brought us close enough to contention this season and especially not in the future.

History proves you wrong. Mavs won with Chandler. Can't dispute that. Call it lightning in a bottle or whatever phrase Cuban and Co. coined to quiet the masses. I call it pure stupidity just as I did when it happened.

oilfieldtrash · 01-06-2013, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

Cuban needs to hit. Something. I'm not even asking for a HR right now, maybe a double would do. These singles have too much double play potential.

No we need a homerun. Simple as that. Take a look at the free agent and draft class next year. Cuban made some horrific decisions by blowing the team up and there is no deals on the horizon to fix the mess he made. I won't call Cuban an idiot because I can see the logic behind what he had in mind when he blew the team up. Everything that could of went wrong did and he ends up looking really bad because of it.

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm just not sure how you can read this...

..and think that Dirk is qualifying his desire to be here. He's not. He's just simply saying that he's still a competitor, and he wants the Mavs to try their best to win. He's not saying his desire to be here is contingent on them being competitive.

Yes, I am reading between the lines. If they aren't competitive because the FO whiffs the 2013 offseason Dirk won't be happy. It is not hard to see that an unhappy Dirk would want out, ie a trade...or he just finishes next year and then retires. After all, he is unhappy now and has moved from trusting the FO to questioning and doubting them. So, the logical leap of wanting out is not too hard to envision.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Yes, I am reading between the lines. If they aren't competitive because the FO whiffs the 2013 offseason Dirk won't be happy. It is not hard to see that an unhappy Dirk would want out, ie a trade...or he just finishes next year and then retires. After all, he is unhappy now and has moved from trusting the FO to questioning and doubting them. So, the logical leap of wanting out is not too hard to envision.

But why are you reading between the lines rather than taking Dirk at his word? He said not winning a ring is the only reason he'd have ever left. And he said it during a time when he was obviously being very honest. So why is it necessary to read anything else into it?

BGMaverick9 · 01-06-2013, 10:34 PM

To me, I don't think there's that much there in the article. Clearly he's frustrated, but that's a given.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

To me, I don't think there's that much there in the article. Clearly he's frustrated, but that's a given.

BG, was this a media scrum where Dirk made these comments, or were these directly to McMahon?

BGMaverick9 · 01-06-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

BG, was this a media scrum where Dirk made these comments, or were these directly to McMahon?

It was just him. I know when it happened, but it was just between the two of them. If it was in the scrum, it would've made the rounds last night or this afternoon.

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It was just him. I know when it happened, but it was just between the two of them. If it was in the scrum, it would've made the rounds last night or this afternoon.

Ok, was just wondering if anyone else heard the context and the questions. I'm leery of anything from him.

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

But why are you reading between the lines rather than taking Dirk at his word? He said not winning a ring is the only reason he'd have ever left. And he said it during a time when he was obviously being very honest. So why is it necessary to read anything else into it?

Im not saying he is not being honest now, but he did move from a position of trusting the FO to now openly doubting and questioning them so whats stopping him from moving further to what was unthinkable before. It is completely out of character for Dirk to say anything directly negative about the front office in public so I think this is a big deal with the potential for Dirk to change his mind again because he hates losing and decides its in his best interest to say please trade me or just I am retiring at the end of 2014 or even just signing elsewhere at the end of 2014. To me, the potential is there depending on the outcome of this offseason.

I get why you and others are just taking him at his word now, but his word has changed. Why cant it change again for the previously unthinkable?

jthig32 · 01-06-2013, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Im not saying he is not being honest now, but he did move from a position of trusting the FO to now openly doubting and questioning them so whats stopping him from moving further to what was unthinkable before. It is completely out of character for Dirk to say anything directly negative about the front office in public so I think this is a big deal with the potential for Dirk to change his mind again because he hates losing and decides its in his best interest to say please trade me or just I am retiring at the end of 2014 or even just signing elsewhere at the end of 2014. To me, the potential is there depending on the outcome of this offseason.

I get why you and others are just taking him at his word now, but his word has changed. Why cant it change again for the previously unthinkable?

I think questioning the direction the FO took two off seasons ago (which he's doing here) is very different than questioning the ability and commitment of the FO moving forward (which is not what I read here).

I think it would take the latter happening for Dirk to consider leaving, and I don't see that happening.

Kante · 01-06-2013, 11:23 PM

He said what everyone thinks/thought.

|_Jeff_| · 01-06-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

To me, I don't think there's that much there in the article. Clearly he's frustrated, but that's a given.

Dirk doesn't think Dry Powder was the right way forward post-championship, and places a blame for where the Mavs are now on that decision by Cuban and Donnie. Agree or Disagree?

roadrunner · 01-06-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think questioning the direction the FO took two off seasons ago (which he's doing here) is very different than questioning the ability and commitment of the FO moving forward (which is not what I read here).

I think it would take the latter happening for Dirk to consider leaving, and I don't see that happening.

Fair enough, and I hope you are right. The FO has its work cut out for them and if they lose out in both the trade market and free agency only to punt and go another year on one year rentals...well, that could easily trigger a disaster that is unrecoverable other than a complete rebuild without Dirk. We will see....